Wow i really love this music... juan luis guerra is just pure musical gold... i need to do my thesis... as soon as im done downloading this cd...its just too good to pass... does anyone like latin beats?
edit: forgot to mention the link is to the english version of the song... which is still so damn good... still i cant help but feel no one here will like it
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Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
Why Freya? Or perhaps, more importantly, which Freya?
I have a tendency to refer to the Valhalla-building hardest opponent in Star Ocean 3 as Freya, as from my understanding she is supposed to be representing a main character from Valkyrie profile. The intention here is I'm not sure I'd like to see Mamelon going through MTGs and completely incinerating everyone, shouting "BEHOLD MY GODLIKE POWERS!" in the process. The problem is the cult may give her reason to want to do that every once in a while
FF was the first series most people got into, because it was the bulk of the RPG market during the eras in which most of us were growing up.
It certainly makes sense. I played through the original FF as I liked the system, just in general what was happening, and also felt to me to be pretty replayable until I kind of figured out how to abuse a few certain things. When we rented FFII and FFIII, according to what I knew at the time, I adored them, but never finished them. Over time I just gradual gained an appreciation and became a small fanboy But yes, I digress. The point I wanted to make was that it happened to be in the household, and it got me started, and I liked the aspects of the game that made it an RPG.
SO2 is a really good game, and I actually prefer it over SO3, but I don't know that it is superior. The system in S03 is polished a little better, the characters have a bit more depth (although they interact far less than I like), and the item creation system is a lot more refined. SO2 has a far superior system for Private Actions and better methods for manipulating character interactions and relationships, and has more party customization options. It also has a really subpar translation and some of the worst voice acting you can hear on the PSX, so I would say they break about even.
Although I haven't had an opportunity to test your statements firsthand, it sounds pretty reasonable, based on the other discussion I've had about it. From my understanding, it was the changes between the battle systems and the plot device of SO3 that made it seem inferior to those who preferred SO2. Something about hating the shielding affects (needing to time waiting for the fury gauge to be completely charged at just the right moment, I'm guessing the inactivity and trickiness to pull off steered them away), and the generalized concept of all of the characters of the known universe being part of one big MMORPG kind of thing (basically a story line complaint). Overall, it sounds like certain biases to play styles between myself and my RPG friends are the reasons that they make the statement that SO3 is crap. So, your assessment that they break even makes sense to me... It doesn't at all surprise me at all that you feel that SO2 is a great game. You strike me as the kind to appreciate a game like that, from what I have heard and what you have said here. Same with Ethersphere, and I'll address his opinion in a moment
I would say the original DW is still an RPG and not an adventure game in any way, considering it has none of the mechanics that identify a game as part of the adventure genre.
The combat system is indeed RPGish, and I make this statement for the reason that there are some aspects of the game that remind of Zelda, except placed in the context of turn based combat. Dungeon crawling and to a much smaller extent puzzle solving while going through said dungeons were prevalent, and I guess to me Zelda was the definition of an adventure style game. I suppose the Actraiser games are actually a much better indication of that, so I concede the point that my statement is more false than true.
Not to speak for the boy, but yeah. It's hard to call it a "series" though, as it has so few titles. We have both Ogre Battle and Tactics Ogre, and I'm proud to say we have the incredibly hard to obtain Ogre Battle Anniversary PSX rerelease, too. Josh has always said he played the series, but his mother was the one who ultimately spent the most time on it. If I remember correctly, he said that sh managed to get every ending in the original, which was quite a task in my opinion.
I'd say 4 games now make a series, and it was clearly intended to be a series. The original Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen was deemed Chapter 5 in the opening, and Ogre Battle 64 was marked as Chapter 6. I'm not sure where Tactics Ogre falls in that line up, and until you brought it up I didn't know that the Anniversary collection was released. The game, I felt, was extremely good. I was frustrated with the original Ogre Battle at times solely for the reason that I would need to sit down and dedicate an afternoon to play through a chapter, and couldn't suspend it. Due to the nature of the length of the missions, it got to be hard at the time I played it to dedicate that large of a block of time, while still developing the characters the way I wanted them to be. This made me ecstatic when I got ahold of Ogre Battle 64 The suspend feature MADE the game for me As a result, it stands on one of my favorite tactical RPGs of all time.
HA! See, I never knew any of this about you. Don't take this in a condescending way, but I now have more respect for you as a gamer.
Interesting. I know I've talked about my preferences for RPGs outside of FF before... perhaps you just missed them? Also, I find it disappointing that I keep missing out on video game related discussions... oftentimes Danica would inform me that it was the topic on the house at the time, and by the time I jump on the bandwagon it's already a topic I'm only bringing up in hindsight. -_- At least this time I managed to get ahold of you guys to talk about it I've been wanting to chat with you about this stuff for a while now... I've talked to Photon and read his work, which I did feel was amazingly deep and had all of the stuff that a good RPG story should have, and I really think some of his treasures should be developed at some point. It seems like he wants it to be absolutely perfect, and I just think it's already on another level that I would love to see, and any real RPG player would want to see.
The Ogre Battle series has been a staple in my household since I was pretty small. My mother picked up the original on the SNES and to this day I can't remember a game I'd ever seen her play more rabidly. It sounds odd, but the 10th anniversary PsX re-release of Ogre Battle that I have has become more than a little special to me because of her. I myself really enjoyed Tactics Ogre, and I see it as vastly superior to FFTactics is most ways. People don't like this opinion ~_~;;
Josh and I adore Tri-Ace and Wolf Team games, for serious. I love Star Ocean 3 more than the other two by a LONG shot, and I play it almost obsessively whenever I pick it back up. I've also grown into a huge Tales of fanboy in the last few years and, again with the controversial opinions, I find Tales of the Abyss to be the best in the series, easily knocking Synphonia off its little pedestal.
The statement that you just made there makes it sound like a wonderful household you had I know that there were some divisions, but a mom that can appreciate Ogre Battle? That's, in my opinion, astounding. To have a personal connection to a game like that is something really special to have. As for the comparison of the tactics versions, I find it interesting that on the surface the two games LOOK and FEEL very similar, but have completely different underlying mechanics. I haven't played enough of Tactics Ogre, as said above, but it is one of those games that, if I get a chance to delve into, is immediately the kind of thing I would love to add to my list of completed games
I have met many tales fanatics, and clearly it speaks to me that I should give them a try, as there were raving reviews for it. Tales of Symphonia was heralded as the "only good RPG for the gamecube", even though I found Skies of Arcadia to also be a hidden treasure if you could get past the occasional immaturity of the characters
I'm trying to remember about Tales of the Abyss... I have a good friend who has played through many of the Tales series... he either also felt Tales of the Abyss was the best, or it was crap that shouldn't have been released. I need to get back to you on that, but as of right now I unfortunately have no opinion. Sigh.
You should give DQ8 a good playing through, Ryan. I guarantee you'll love it as much as I do. Most people I recommend it to actually end up feeling that way, which is great. I'm holding my breath for the three DQ releases coming up - DQ Swords for the Wii, DQ Monsters: Joker on the DS, and...*almost faints*...Dragon Quest 9 on the DS.
Oh God. I need a drink of water or something.
So, after geeking out in what I think is the worst display I've given in my history on this site, I think I should take a break for today >_>;;
I seriously, seriously should. I kept hearing that the game was good, but I haven't had a chance to really play any non-handheld games recently. But, there was a day that Danica over the summer showed me DQ8. I was absolutely amazed by what she showed me, as I was just very impressed at how they managed to make it feel so... CONNECTED to the rest of the series. A lot of the music was remastered and fit with pretty much every other game in the series, without making it feel like it was... well, ancient. The victory music stayed the same and felt retro, but at the same time wasn't. What I was probably most impressed by was the way they worked combat... the same tried and tested system, but it's the first time since Golden Sun that I've been impressed with the GRAPHICS of a turn based RPG! Just watching it felt glorious, innovative, and yet still true to the roots. It looks like it has more interaction with the party aspects of the game as well... what with being able to at random times just chat with the members of your group (at least, that's what it looked like), which reminded me of similar qualities in DWM and DWIII. Again, beautiful stuff, and I strongly look forward to playing it all.
YAY! I FINALLY managed to catch you guys in a real RPG discussion!
LOl ryan... while im pretty happy for you... im pretty sure that means im gonna be posted over my last couple of posts bummer... and i wanted to share that music vid
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Quote from »
Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
I have a tendency to refer to the Valhalla-building hardest opponent in Star Ocean 3 as Freya, as from my understanding she is supposed to be representing a main character from Valkyrie profile. The intention here is I'm not sure I'd like to see Mamelon going through MTGs and completely incinerating everyone, shouting "BEHOLD MY GODLIKE POWERS!" in the process. The problem is the cult may give her reason to want to do that every once in a while
Freya is a central figure in the VP storylines, as one of the highest ranking Aesir. She also has a strange sort of unspoken relationship with Odin, and historically has been a character that could not be trusted in the game proper, but could later be unlocked and used as a playable character. In the first game, you got her in your first mission, but after that she was just your contact to Asgard. If you performed poorly enough, you could be confronted by Freya in a challenge that is nigh-unbeatable, and even if you should somehow best her in combat she would still kill you and your game would end. However, she could be unlocked again in the optional dungeon. In VP2, she also plays a role, and shows up as a proper battle once again, oalthough this time with less difficulty. She can be recruited through the optional dungeon at the end of the game once more, and in her VP2 incarnation she is a good deal more useful. In VP1, she is incredibly powerful, but is something of a glass cannon with limited capacity and no equipment choices worth mentioning. She's one of my favorite VP characters, as she is just such a *****. She was one of the inspirations behind the character of Belphegor in first-run Rise, actually.
Sidenote: I've actually had both Freya and Odin as avatars in the past on MTGS.
Although I haven't had an opportunity to test your statements firsthand, it sounds pretty reasonable, based on the other discussion I've had about it. From my understanding, it was the changes between the battle systems and the plot device of SO3 that made it seem inferior to those who preferred SO2. Something about hating the shielding affects (needing to time waiting for the fury gauge to be completely charged at just the right moment, I'm guessing the inactivity and trickiness to pull off steered them away), and the generalized concept of all of the characters of the known universe being part of one big MMORPG kind of thing (basically a story line complaint). Overall, it sounds like certain biases to play styles between myself and my RPG friends are the reasons that they make the statement that SO3 is crap. So, you're assessment that they break even makes sense to me... It doesn't at all surprise me at all that you feel that SO2 is a great game. You strike me as the kind to appreciate a game like that, from what I have heard and what you have said here. Same with Ethersphere, and I'll address his opinion in a moment
SO2 is actually among my top five favorite games of all time (the others being Valkyrie Profile, Shadow Hearts Covenant, Final Fantasy VI, and Persona 2: Eternal Punishment, in no particular order). Part of the charm of the SO series is the rich character interactions and the options to develop your characters. In most games, you either can have a story in which characters are always involved in canon relationships (i.e. Yuna and Tidus will always be attached, Wakka will always be distrustful of Rikku) and the cast does not vary at all, or you can have ones in which you can total choice of who you recruit, but the characters do not ever acknowledge each other outside of the events in which they are obtained (many portions of Chrono Trigger, the SaGa series, Final Fantasy Tactics).
However, SO2 not only had a cast in which characters eventually developed stronger feelings for or against each other, but you had free reign to decide who you let join you outside of the two main characters. The main male lead, Claude, could fall in love with the main girl, Reina, or he could fall in love with the sorceress Celine, or the inventor Precis, or he could even end up throwing girls to the curb and shacking up with another guy if you played your cards right. Meanwhile, Celine and Reina might end up being the best of friends, or could be bitter rivals, or Celine might end up falling in love with a noble from some town, or Precis might be inspired by Claude and leave the planet to follow him, or they could all just go their separate ways. On top of that, you didn't have to get every character, but each character felt as though they had a place in the story and would make comments on events as if they were always scripted to be a part of it. It didn't matter who you recruited, the story always felt as though everyone was supposed to be there, as opposed to just having 2 people talk a la FF6 while Gogo and Gau sit around and twiddle their thumbs. Additionally, the storyline was respectful to the previous installment, and it preserved the blending of fantasy and sci fi pretty well. SO3 was less SO and more Star Trek at points (although the entire series does borrow heavily from ST), but it also had many story elements that not only downplayed the gravity of the game itself, but trivialized the grand scope of events that took place in all 3 SO games that came before it. I think that is why people were miffed at the concept. Additionally, you were sort of stuck with your characters, PAs were just a skeleton of their previous form, and the only real relationships you could impact were between Fayt and other characters- and even then, most of Fayt's actions made him lean heavily towards Sophia.
I'd say 4 games now make a series, and it was clearly intended to be a series. The original Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen was deemed Chapter 5 in the opening, and Ogre Battle 64 was marked as Chapter 6. I'm not sure where Tactics Ogre falls in that line up, and until you brought it up I didn't know that the Anniversary collection was released. The game, I felt, was extremely good. I was frustrated with the original Ogre Battle at times solely for the reason that I would need to sit down and dedicate an afternoon to play through a chapter, and couldn't suspend it. Due to the nature of the length of the missions, it got to be hard at the time I played it to dedicate that large of a block of time, while still developing the characters the way I wanted them to be. This made me ecstatic when I got ahold of Ogre Battle 64 The suspend feature MADE the game for me As a result, it stands on one of my favorite tactical RPGs of all time.
It's not a series that most people can play in completion, however. All the titles are pretty rare. It's quite possible to find one and never even see one of the other titles in your lifetime, which is sad.
I've talked to Photon and read his work, which I did feel was amazingly deep and had all of the stuff that a good RPG story should have, and I really think some of his treasures should be developed at some point. It seems like he wants it to be absolutely perfect, and I just think it's already on another level that I would love to see, and any real RPG player would want to see.
Which work, exactly?
I have met many tales fanatics, and clearly it speaks to me that I should give them a try, as there were raving reviews for it. Tales of Symphonia was heralded as the "only good RPG for the gamecube", even though I found Skies of Arcadia to also be a hidden treasure if you could get past the occasional immaturity of the characters
I'm trying to remember about Tales of the Abyss... I have a good friend who has played through many of the Tales series... he either also felt Tales of the Abyss was the best, or it was crap that shouldn't have been released. I need to get back to you on that, but as of right now I unfortunately have no opinion. Sigh.
I was slow to get into the Tales series, but now it is one of my favorites. It does sort of have a crapload of titles to keep straight, but it does come out with a solid title more often than not. Phantasia, Destiny, and Symphonia are all the real hallmarks of the series, but I have a soft spot for Abyss. Abyss is a bit of a fence-rider. Some absolutely adore it, others loathe it. Story-wise, it is missing a lot of Tales conventions, and has some more mature elements- but it isn't the FFT to the SNES FF games in terms of that divide. Those that do not like it tend to dislike it because it has slow load times (about on par with FFXII or any late gen PS2 RPG), and it lacks in traditional Tales elements (summoning, quirky as hell comic relief characters, common character archetypes). Those that like it tend to enjoy the deepening of the battle system, the general rise in difficulty, and the storyline that isn't your standard anime game fare with a new face. Personally, I recommend it.
I seriously, seriously should. I kept hearing that the game was good, but I haven't had a chance to really play any non-handheld games recently. But, there was a day that Danica over the summer showed me DQ8. I was absolutely amazed by what she showed me, as I was just very impressed at how they managed to make it feel so... CONNECTED to the rest of the series. A lot of the music was remastered and fit with pretty much every other game in the series, without making it feel like it was... well, ancient. The victory music stayed the same and felt retro, but at the same time wasn't. What I was probably most impressed by was the way they worked combat... the same tried and tested system, but it's the first time since Golden Sun that I've been impressed with the GRAPHICS of a turn based RPG! Just watching it felt glorious, innovative, and yet still true to the roots. It looks like it has more interaction with the party aspects of the game as well... what with being able to at random times just chat with the members of your group (at least, that's what it looked like), which reminded me of similar qualities in DWM and DWIII. Again, beautiful stuff, and I strongly look forward to playing it all.
Sidenote: I'm actually of a pretty harsh opinion of the Golden Sun series, believe it or not.
YAY! I FINALLY managed to catch you guys in a real RPG discussion!
All one really has to do is bring it up. As long as it isn't the old-as-hell discussions about FF, KH, or that mess, it isn't hard to get either of us going on this topic.
I'll talk about RPGs until I'm blue in the face, really. I think this leads a lot of people on MTGS to believe that it's the only thing I'll talk about or am interested in, which is quite the contrary. Gaming has always been my number one hobby, though.
I think that Star Ocean 3's plot twist made the events of the other three games even more important, if that makes sense. An incoming migraine prevents me from getting too deep into it, but I think that knowledge of that one thing that changes everything you know about the series really gives everything more gravity, not less. It makes everything everyone has ever done within the confines of that galaxy to free themselves from some oppression or tyranny that much more important. I'm excited to see how they change the story of SO 1 and 2 in the PSP remakes to reflect that.
Tales of Symphonia wasn't the only good RPG on the Gamecube - Paper Mario 2 and the Baten Kaitos games come to mind immediately to accompany it. It was the most accessible, though, and I hate to say it but it took FFX's plot and made it interesting. One thing about the Tales of games that always shines is the cast, and I have to say after playing Abyss and Legendia, most of Symphonia's cast seems bland in comparison. Although my favorite Tales of character of all time is from Symphonia. Sheena will always be my favorite =)
Thanks for reminding me - I'm pretty sure the Tales OVA #2 is out, and I haven't seen it yet.
Ah, it's been a really bad last couple of days for me. I've been sick, mostly, and only just now got the energy to do more than get out of bed and basic living functions. I skipped out on work both yesterday and today. I did finish all of Basilisk (an anime about ninjas), though, which I'd been meaning to do for a long time.
Man, way to make me feel old. When I was a kid/tennager I'd invite everyone over to play Battletoads, the original Super Mario Kart, and Seiken Densetsu 2.
The hot stuff at my place usually involved Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat somehow and there was always the occasional game of F-Zero flying around when I had access to an SNES. Good stuff.
Killer Instict? Anybody? That and Primal Rage round out the list of fighting games that have also been turned into Magic cards - also games that I played waaay too much of in grade-school. I also remember Battletoads - and that I could never much get past the second part of that level where you climb down the giant pit and start riding on motorbikes. It was also the hayday of Super Metroid and Link to the Past, some of the best 2D games to come out, period. Ninja Turtles, Transformers, and Thundercats were on the tube... Good times, all around.
I'm coming to reexamine my feelings about this. I'm aware that it actually creates something of an impassable barrier, because there's a line I can't cross if I want to keep that distinction. The recent thing with Skype voice chat brought this to my attention. That's something I couldn't do and still preserve the purity. And Mr. Stuff has asked multiple times if he'd ever see me at a convention, and each time I felt bad because I knew such a meeting could never happen with anyone here. Because that'd be crossing the line.
First of all, congratulations on having the courage to share this. It's a really great thing that you feel comfortable enough to do that now. You may be surprised, but I already knew your name, and have for quite some time. There were a few things said in the Coffeehouse long ago from which I inferred it. I haven't said anything out of respect, but now that it's out - I'm glad for you, but I won't think of you any differently. I think (well, for a lot of people here, anyway), there is not as much of a difference in expectations as you'd think. You've told us at length several times who you are and what you're about, even what you look like, and we're (or at least, I'm) fine with that. And as for meeting you - I'd like to meet several of the people here in the Coffeehouse, but feasibly, you guys are the only ones in the same state. That's why the opportunity came up more often. Again, congratulations on taking this step, as far as feeling comfortable with yourself.
Alrighty then... I just got the Policies/Procedures/Etc manual in the mail yesterday from Yonago and I haven't had a chance to read it yet. I'm going to take it in town and read it while I do some things on broadband. I need to e-mail all of my old profs again, since I didn't get a single reply when I asked for advice on my trip *grumble*. That, and a few new episodes of things came out I want to pick up.
Freya is a central figure in the VP storylines, as one of the highest ranking Aesir. She also has a strange sort of unspoken relationship with Odin, and historically has been a character that could not be trusted in the game proper, but could later be unlocked and used as a playable character. In the first game, you got her in your first mission, but after that she was just your contact to Asgard. If you performed poorly enough, you could be confronted by Freya in a challenge that is nigh-unbeatable, and even if you should somehow best her in combat she would still kill you and your game would end. However, she could be unlocked again in the optional dungeon. In VP2, she also plays a role, and shows up as a proper battle once again, oalthough this time with less difficulty. She can be recruited through the optional dungeon at the end of the game once more, and in her VP2 incarnation she is a good deal more useful. In VP1, she is incredibly powerful, but is something of a glass cannon with limited capacity and no equipment choices worth mentioning. She's one of my favorite VP characters, as she is just such a *****. She was one of the inspirations behind the character of Belphegor in first-run Rise, actually.
Sidenote: I've actually had both Freya and Odin as avatars in the past on MTGS.
That was quite the history lesson there in terms of Valkyrie Profile. You have mentioned the game on occasion before, and from what I have observed it is one of the hardest to find RPGs on the market without using ROMs. Furthermore, Belphegor = THAT *****?! Somehow things make SO much more sense... again, I'm surprised we didn't see more of her awe defying power in game. Now I'm going to remember Belphegor as constantly saying "I shall PURIFY you!", despite the irony of the character.
The avatar of Freya does strongly remind me of that grand boss in SO3. I am correct that the "little girl" boss that desired to rebuild Vahalla and was basically released from an orb (and you could fight against her as often as you wanted) is supposed to be modeled after Freya, right? From what I remember, her name is different, but she looks the same, except for a different hair color. And she floats.
SO2 is actually among my top five favorite games of all time (the others being Valkyrie Profile, Shadow Hearts Covenant, Final Fantasy VI, and Persona 2: Eternal Punishment, in no particular order). Part of the charm of the SO series is the rich character interactions and the options to develop your characters. In most games, you either can have a story in which characters are always involved in canon relationships (i.e. Yuna and Tidus will always be attached, Wakka will always be distrustful of Rikku) and the cast does not vary at all, or you can have ones in which you can total choice of who you recruit, but the characters do not ever acknowledge each other outside of the events in which they are obtained (many portions of Chrono Trigger, the SaGa series, Final Fantasy Tactics).
However, SO2 not only had a cast in which characters eventually developed stronger feelings for or against each other, but you had free reign to decide who you let join you outside of the two main characters. The main male lead, Claude, could fall in love with the main girl, Reina, or he could fall in love with the sorceress Celine, or the inventor Precis, or he could even end up throwing girls to the curb and shacking up with another guy if you played your cards right. Meanwhile, Celine and Reina might end up being the best of friends, or could be bitter rivals, or Celine might end up falling in love with a noble from some town, or Precis might be inspired by Claude and leave the planet to follow him, or they could all just go their separate ways. On top of that, you didn't have to get every character, but each character felt as though they had a place in the story and would make comments on events as if they were always scripted to be a part of it. It didn't matter who you recruited, the story always felt as though everyone was supposed to be there, as opposed to just having 2 people talk a la FF6 while Gogo and Gau sit around and twiddle their thumbs. Additionally, the storyline was respectful to the previous installment, and it preserved the blending of fantasy and sci fi pretty well. SO3 was less SO and more Star Trek at points (although the entire series does borrow heavily from ST), but it also had many story elements that not only downplayed the gravity of the game itself, but trivialized the grand scope of events that took place in all 3 SO games that came before it. I think that is why people were miffed at the concept. Additionally, you were sort of stuck with your characters, PAs were just a skeleton of their previous form, and the only real relationships you could impact were between Fayt and other characters- and even then, most of Fayt's actions made him lean heavily towards Sophia.
I strongly value differing interactions between the characters based on choices made during RPGs. Granted, I know that at times it can be difficult to program, depending on how many different directions the social interactions can take, but it is incredible when pulled off. Normally, I get disappointed in those situations as, by the end of the game, there feels like there is a glaring hole in the story. One such example was in Ogre Battle, you can make choices to have the character's father join you, but it may also not happen. I made the choices in which he did not join, and every mission I checked up and looked for what was going on with him... he was "missing in action", and never appeared again, even when his son was kinged, and all he really did was stop fighting and adbandoned the army. I was fairly disappointed. [/quote]
It's not a series that most people can play in completion, however. All the titles are pretty rare. It's quite possible to find one and never even see one of the other titles in your lifetime, which is sad.
True, as I've only found and played 2, really. My exposure to Tactics wasn't enough, but that SEEMED to do the best of them.
Which work, exactly?
When we were working on Rise, you sent me a design file of a work that you shelved and largely developed hoping to either get it made in game form, or a table top, but it didn't seem to rise off the ground enough. It involved a sealed fallen angel beneath the depths of a cathedral being released, if I remember correctly. You also showed me a battle outline against Jukar at the same time as an extra fight in the same series. When I get home, I may look it up if this is not enough information.
[/quote]
I was slow to get into the Tales series, but now it is one of my favorites. It does sort of have a crapload of titles to keep straight, but it does come out with a solid title more often than not. Phantasia, Destiny, and Symphonia are all the real hallmarks of the series, but I have a soft spot for Abyss. Abyss is a bit of a fence-rider. Some absolutely adore it, others loathe it. Story-wise, it is missing a lot of Tales conventions, and has some more mature elements- but it isn't the FFT to the SNES FF games in terms of that divide. Those that do not like it tend to dislike it because it has slow load times (about on par with FFXII or any late gen PS2 RPG), and it lacks in traditional Tales elements (summoning, quirky as hell comic relief characters, common character archetypes). Those that like it tend to enjoy the deepening of the battle system, the general rise in difficulty, and the storyline that isn't your standard anime game fare with a new face. Personally, I recommend it.
It has been recommended to me before, and the comments here actually clarify a bit more what I remember of my friend's comments, which were largely along the lines that it wasn't a real Tales game and the fights were kind of stupid (in reference to Tales of the Abyss), so I'm pretty sure it was Abyss that he despised. From what I remember, it was either Phantasia or Destiny that was his favorite, with Symphonia rounding out 2nd place for him.
Sidenote: I'm actually of a pretty harsh opinion of the Golden Sun series, believe it or not.
I have a pretty high opinion of it in many ways, but it felt like it very mechanically split up a solid RPG into 2 different parts. I liked the puzzle elements and combat graphics as well as the system. Things got a little complicated in terms of combat at the end of Lost Age, but I rather liked it. By then, strategy became fairly important in dealing with the more powerful bosses. I did feel like the mechanical divide between the games was pretty well done though, bringing in the exact characters from the previous game at the time that all of the characters are balanced, and then you get the mixing and matching abilities that can result in the various djinny, and they actually become relevant! Not just slapping all of the same elementally aligned djinn on a single character basically meant much more when you got to the endgame. Overall, I was impressed. What did you dislike? Was it too linear? I felt the story was relatively good, not the best, but pretty good.
All one really has to do is bring it up. As long as it isn't the old-as-hell discussions about FF, KH, or that mess, it isn't hard to get either of us going on this topic.
A conversation can still come up for reminiscing or having someone be introduced to a new game for the first time though... or so I hope I know that you'll get involved as long as it isn't on a list of games that you guys don't like. Which is perfectly understandable.
I'll talk about RPGs until I'm blue in the face, really. I think this leads a lot of people on MTGS to believe that it's the only thing I'll talk about or am interested in, which is quite the contrary. Gaming has always been my number one hobby, though.
I think that Star Ocean 3's plot twist made the events of the other three games even more important, if that makes sense. An incoming migraine prevents me from getting too deep into it, but I think that knowledge of that one thing that changes everything you know about the series really gives everything more gravity, not less. It makes everything everyone has ever done within the confines of that galaxy to free themselves from some oppression or tyranny that much more important. I'm excited to see how they change the story of SO 1 and 2 in the PSP remakes to reflect that.
Tales of Symphonia wasn't the only good RPG on the Gamecube - Paper Mario 2 and the Baten Kaitos games come to mind immediately to accompany it. It was the most accessible, though, and I hate to say it but it took FFX's plot and made it interesting. One thing about the Tales of games that always shines is the cast, and I have to say after playing Abyss and Legendia, most of Symphonia's cast seems bland in comparison. Although my favorite Tales of character of all time is from Symphonia. Sheena will always be my favorite =)
I do find that SO3 perception interesting, just because it so strongly disagrees with the widespread concept that the plot twist destroyed the story. I personally don't mind it, and found it to be interesting... the concept of that kind of future in a world such as ours is intriguing. Unfortunately, I don't know enough about the rest of the SO stories to understand more than that... but I try
Also, Paper Mario 2 disappointed many of the Paper Mario fans, and I will always prefer Super Mario RPG to either Paper Mario game, to be honest. It is likely that is just personal opinion, as I hear mixed reviews. I also agree that Symphonia isn't the only good RPG for the game cube: did you try Skies of Arcadia, by any chance? I didn't finish it, but I thought the exploration elements of the game were pretty fantastic.
Skype was a suggestion being thrown around when SapphireTri, or Mike, or however I should refer to him, was trying to suggest a way for lots of people across MTGSal to meet. Now I'm fine with most of this, especially when in reference to the CoffeeHouse, but seriously, I'd need armaments if we were to meet the casual Rumor Mill people. Being that my broom is likely to be somewhat less effective and menacing than, say, the waffle iron, I highly suggest that we try to get Photon back into Magic just to give him an excuse to take a reasonable swing at some of the more demented ones.
Eech, I don't think anyone really wants to talk to random MTGSers. (Not that they're not all great people in their own ways, I'm sure.) I see Skype as a tool for talking to specific people that I already know.
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I also fell in love with the Ogre Battle series. You ever given them a go?
Not my question, but the original Ogre Battle game stands out in my mind as one of the greatest-designed games I've encountered. Not that it didn't have some flaws, but I'm still impressed by it. (It's aged much, much better than many games of its era.)
Quote from Photon »
...as opposed to just having 2 people talk a la FF6 while Gogo and Gau sit around and twiddle their thumbs...
In what is game-play-wise one of my favorite games of all time, this sticks out as a weak point in my eyes. One thing I really, really like about modern RPGs is that characters get much, much better developed. (In many older games, characters join the party for some contrived reason, then don't get any dialogue until their one sidequest.) Bash on the game if you want, but I can't think of any SNES game where the characters are remotely as well developed as they are in FFVII. (I pick FFVII because it was a very early post-SNES RPG, not because the character development was especially good or especially poor.) Despite this, FFVI contains what are easily two of the most emotionally stirring moments in the series. (No spoilers, but one involves Locke and the other Cyan.) IV and VII, the games I've played the most after VI, don't have anything that even comes close, although Aeris's death might have been more powerful if I didn't know it was going to happen, and Cait Sith's sacrifice is cheapened mostly because it's resolved so quickly. IV's "tragedies" are nearly comical from the first, and before long seem truly absurd.
Quote from Photon »
I'm actually of a pretty harsh opinion of the Golden Sun series, believe it or not.
I liked the puzzle elements of the game, and I like that it was an RPG that didn't go out of its way to avoid cliches. That said, it was really darn generic.
That was quite the history lesson there in terms of Valkyrie Profile. You have mentioned the game on occasion before, and from what I have observed it is one of the hardest to find RPGs on the market without using ROMs. Furthermore, Belphegor = THAT *****?! Somehow things make SO much more sense... again, I'm surprised we didn't see more of her awe defying power in game. Now I'm going to remember Belphegor as constantly saying "I shall PURIFY you!", despite the irony of the character.
VP isn't as hard to find now that it has been rereleased as VP: Lenneth on the PSP. The original PSX run is notoriously difficult to obtain. Luckily, I have my own copy, and a back up should anything ever happen to it.
Belphegor wasn't really one for flashy catch phrases, however. She would just as quickly put a knife in your temple and walk away without a word.
The avatar of Freya does strongly remind me of that grand boss in SO3. I am correct that the "little girl" boss that desired to rebuild Vahalla and was basically released from an orb (and you could fight against her as often as you wanted) is supposed to be modeled after Freya, right? From what I remember, her name is different, but she looks the same, except for a different hair color. And she floats.
It IS Freya. It's just a super-deformed Freya. According to my copy of the strategy guide, her name is Freya, and she looks exactly like a SD anime version of the original Freya. And the original Freya floats, too. Her most notable catch phrase is different, though. Freya is best known for her after-battle quote, "My name is Freya. Recall it on your journey to Hell."
I strongly value differing interactions between the characters based on choices made during RPGs. Granted, I know that at times it can be difficult to program, depending on how many different directions the social interactions can take, but it is incredible when pulled off. Normally, I get disappointed in those situations as, by the end of the game, there feels like there is a glaring hole in the story. One such example was in Ogre Battle, you can make choices to have the character's father join you, but it may also not happen. I made the choices in which he did not join, and every mission I checked up and looked for what was going on with him... he was "missing in action", and never appeared again, even when his son was kinged, and all he really did was stop fighting and adbandoned the army. I was fairly disappointed.
Yeah, it tends to make you glaringly aware you are playing a video game, and it sort of breaks some of the suspension of disbelief necessary to become engrossed in the game world.
True, as I've only found and played 2, really. My exposure to Tactics wasn't enough, but that SEEMED to do the best of them.
I've only played 2, myself. Tactics Ogre is the most prolific and involved of the series, and also the most different. It is also the obvious spiritual ancestor to FF Tactics.
When we were working on Rise, you sent me a design file of a work that you shelved and largely developed hoping to either get it made in game form, or a table top, but it didn't seem to rise off the ground enough. It involved a sealed fallen angel beneath the depths of a cathedral being released, if I remember correctly. You also showed me a battle outline against Jukar at the same time as an extra fight in the same series. When I get home, I may look it up if this is not enough information.
Ah, Demon's Ideology. Yeah, I worked on scenario, story, character, and some system on DI for a little over four years before feeling walled in and shelving the project until a future date. The game needs a lot of overhauling, I think, and until I can either hone some decent programming skills or find a programmer who can work with me that shares a passion for the project, it's permanently on my back burners. Some big pots just need to be on the back burners in order for you to keep them going, I think.
It has been recommended to me before, and the comments here actually clarify a bit more what I remember of my friend's comments, which were largely along the lines that it wasn't a real Tales game and the fights were kind of stupid (in reference to Tales of the Abyss), so I'm pretty sure it was Abyss that he despised. From what I remember, it was either Phantasia or Destiny that was his favorite, with Symphonia rounding out 2nd place for him.
I find that comment a bit odd, because the battles were not much different from Symphonia. The only new addition was the addition of the fon fields in battle, which allowed you to maneuver to strategic places on the battlefield to gain access to special effects. Other than that, it played pretty close to ToS. Maybe he was thinking of Tales of Legendia, which is incredibly different, and is the FF8 of the Tales series. Josh likes it a lot, and I think it is a pretty interesting game, but a lot of the average fans are less forgiving of it for its changes.
What did you dislike? Was it too linear? I felt the story was relatively good, not the best, but pretty good.
I felt like the exploration of Aristotlian element spirits has been explored to its limits, the characterization felt awkward and stilted, and the gameplay itself felt fairly unoriginal once you got past the ability to use your various abilities to solve puzzles. Also, I resent when a company doesn't complete a storyline in a single title.
Also, Paper Mario 2 disappointed many of the Paper Mario fans
Every opinion on it I have ever heard has been in direct contrast to this statement, to be honest.
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[16:23] Alacar Leoricar: maybe if you do it'll make the porn more meaningful
For one thing, I'm afraid that I really do sound gay when I talk. I know most people in the 'house would agree that in reality this isn't much of a concern, but for me it would mean the difference between comfortable socializing and remaining a paranoid hermit. If I'm male I want to sound male, and for the most part I'm comfortable in the assumption that I do, but who knows.
Also, I've always been painfully aware that my voice sounds totally different to other people than it does to me. I enjoy the way my voice resonates inside my own head, so to speak, and I kind of despise that it doesn't sound anything like that to other people. So yeah.
I won't judge ya man. I couldn't and won't think any differently of you if you sounded like the Gingerbread Man from Shrek (okay, that example would make me giggle), but I could care less. Still, it's your call.
I've mentioned it before, but I'm not particularly comfortable with my own voice; I sound sniveling as hell, and pretty much condescending all of the time. (To the extent that when I'm saying something that could come off as condescending, I make an effort to speak in a different voice.) There's not a ton that I can do about it, though.
Your voice sounds fine to me, Joyd. The thing is, when it comes to voice, we are our greatest critics.
Since I'm also on the topic, your voice sounds great Sephy.
When we were working on Rise, you sent me a design file of a work that you shelved and largely developed hoping to either get it made in game form, or a table top, but it didn't seem to rise off the ground enough. It involved a sealed fallen angel beneath the depths of a cathedral being released, if I remember correctly. You also showed me a battle outline against Jukar at the same time as an extra fight in the same series. When I get home, I may look it up if this is not enough information.
This was called Devil's Incarnation, or DI, and it still is one of the most comprehensive RPG outlines I've ever read. It drips with style.
Quote from Arguas »
Also, Paper Mario 2 disappointed many of the Paper Mario fans, and I will always prefer Super Mario RPG to either Paper Mario game, to be honest. It is likely that is just personal opinion, as I hear mixed reviews. I also agree that Symphonia isn't the only good RPG for the game cube: did you try Skies of Arcadia, by any chance? I didn't finish it, but I thought the exploration elements of the game were pretty fantastic.
Paper Mario.. ahh. That game was wicked, and I'm glad the original's on the Wii Virtual Console. Great RPG, very unique style. Paper Mario 2 did little to innovate on it, but even so, Super Mario RPG remains one of my favorite RPGs.
Unrelated note: I started watching Robotech: The Macross Saga (Yes, not Macross; Robotech is what I grew up with), and it's amazing that after all this time, Minmei is STILL a neurotic bimbo and I end up hating her after episode 4.
Afternoon, Coffeecups.I won't judge ya man. I couldn't and won't think any differently of you if you sounded like the Gingerbread Man from Shrek (okay, that example would make me giggle), but I could care less. Still, it's your call.
Ironically, I can do a pretty good Gingy impression.
This was called Devil's Incarnation, or DI, and it still is one of the most comprehensive RPG outlines I've ever read. It drips with style.
:xd: What?! It's Demon's Ideology, not Devil's Incarnation! Incidentally, this blog entry (sealed for freshness) features some touch ups on some of the core game mechanics.
IV's "tragedies" are nearly comical from the first, and before long seem truly absurd.
Especially when you consider they occur roughly every 1.51 game hours.
Wow i really love this music... juan luis guerra is just pure musical gold... i need to do my thesis... as soon as im done downloading this cd...its just too good to pass... does anyone like latin beats?
edit: forgot to mention the link is to the english version of the song... which is still so damn good... still i cant help but feel no one here will like it
I have always liked JLG and he's very accessible to the Anglo market. Got San Pedro de Macoris saved on my work mix.
what else do you like? I'm always looking for more stuff...
I actually aided in the build of that deck. Not as much as Sam and Fooly put into it obviously. Mainly I lent them cards. I playtested with Sam (though he was short some cards and died badly over and over ) The Mindcensors were my idea though. People are seriously underrating that card.
I had a happy encounter at FNM tonight. I struck up a conversation with a regular there who I've never really talked to before. We talked a little bit about design and he asked if I ever come here. Turns out he's a frequent poster in both debate and custom cards. Hooray for unexpected encounters.
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The Golden Rule of forums: If you're going to be rude, be right. If you might be wrong, be polite.
I have always liked JLG and he's very accessible to the Anglo market. Got San Pedro de Macoris saved on my work mix.
what else do you like? I'm always looking for more stuff...
As far as spanish music goes im basically a fan of JLG and Maná (no not seiken densetsu, theres an actual mexican group called Maná), if we go into english music im a fan of punk and some other assorted groups... i never got into JPop though i dont know why, maybe not being able to understand kills it for me.
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Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
So, this is a tad out of the blue, but I've been podering quite a bit lately about why I value my anonymity so much. There are many things about myself I never share on principle online, including real name, pictures, voice sample, etc.
I think that the reason this is so isn't necessarily (or merely, at least) because I'm embarrassed by them. Rather, I feel like there is a distinction between my online identity and my identity in person, and that's a distinction I like to keep. Myself as Mamelon isn't affected by impressions people have formed based on my appearance or my name or any other such associations. I feel like it's an environment in which I can act more freely without needing to consider all these extraneous factors I have to compensate for.
When I log on here I actually feel like I'm entering a different state of mind, one less burdened and restricted. I want that to remain the same, as it's like a haven from the "real" world. I wanted this identity to be pure, distinct, unfettered by the other.
I'm coming to reexamine my feelings about this. I'm aware that it actually creates something of an impassable barrier, because there's a line I can't cross if I want to keep that distinction. The recent thing with Skype voice chat brought this to my attention. That's something I couldn't do and still preserve the purity. And Mr. Stuff has asked multiple times if he'd ever see me at a convention, and each time I felt bad because I knew such a meeting could never happen with anyone here. Because that'd be crossing the line.
The way I'm looking at it now, I want the two identities to combine. I don't want to think of them anymore as seperate selves or states of mind. I want the unfettered, pure one to also be the one I am in my daily life. So I think I need for the line to be crossed. If I'm ever going to be comfortable with it, I'll need to let go of the separation. I want purity to mean something different, something other than dissociating from myself.
The least I can do is start with my name. It is . . .
Matthew. This is what most people call me in person. I actually like this name, as names go, though I still prefer to be called Mamelon on MTGS.
Spoiled for those who may actually prefer the mystique, heh. If that's even necessary.
Anyway, it's just something I wanted to say.
I'm very happy for you and proud too, i guess. I think the whole 'two separate people' thing is what caused me so much trouble, and now that I've dropped that I'm much happier. either way, just, i dunno what to do cept give you a big hug *glomp tackles mamelon*
edit: i'll catch up with other posts later, i promise ^_~
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"The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown" ~ H. P. Lovecraft
I had a happy encounter at FNM tonight. I struck up a conversation with a regular there who I've never really talked to before. We talked a little bit about design and he asked if I ever come here. Turns out he's a frequent poster in both debate and custom cards. Hooray for unexpected encounters.
Once in a blue moon when I meet another somewhat serious MTG player, I always wonder if I haven't perhaps encountered them on here somewhere.
Was he aware of who you were, or was it sort of a case where you were both "Oh, I hang out on MTGS, too", and didn't explore it any further?
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[16:23] Alacar Leoricar: maybe if you do it'll make the porn more meaningful
As far as spanish music goes im basically a fan of JLG and Maná (no not seiken densetsu, theres an actual mexican group called Maná), if we go into english music im a fan of punk and some other assorted groups... i never got into JPop though i dont know why, maybe not being able to understand kills it for me.
hahaha I was never aware of any OTHER type of Maná besides the band...:p and of course what you get from mana sources.
ever listen to los yaguaru, Kumbia Kings, control machete, molotov, cypress hill, trulala, fulanito, olga tañon, willie colón?
I had a happy encounter at FNM tonight. I struck up a conversation with a regular there who I've never really talked to before. We talked a little bit about design and he asked if I ever come here. Turns out he's a frequent poster in both debate and custom cards. Hooray for unexpected encounters.
And you didn't even have to fight anything... too bad there was no XP or gold looting out of it though.
Sorry for the bad geek joke people...
Speaking of unexpected encounters, today I ran into someone I haven't seen since junior year of high school. And funnily enough the one thing he came to me about was Magic. Played a few casual games, picked up some Incinerates, Remands, and Spell Snares on the cheap, and even got to smash some multiplayer face with his elf deck I modified. Smashed a large 90 points of damage in one turn too. It did teach me that I'm pretty much done with Magic on the large scale too. Sticking to the occasional casual game and that's about it. Nothing weekly or anything anymore unless its over MWS or involves drafting (which I still find incredibly fun). Tis' a sad day but I expected it to come sooner or later.
hahaha I was never aware of any OTHER type of Maná besides the band...:p and of course what you get from mana sources.
ever listen to los yaguaru, Kumbia Kings, control machete, molotov, cypress hill, trulala, fulanito, olga tañon, willie colón?
Yes i have heard them all... molotov is good as long as you dont mind profanities every 15 seconds (which me having a kid means a big no-no), control machete and kumbia kings i havent heard in so long i kinda have forgtten the liyrics to their musics you should try genitalica...funny spanish punk that is not from mexico raton blanco was also a good group a couple of years ago..havent checked them since though... you have a love for oldies huh? jejejejje if you dont have it then i recomend bachata rosa from JLG and the new cd as soon as possible jejejeje
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Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
Okay, as far as the Skype chat idea goes- I'm just gonna grab the bull by the horns and start organizing something.
I think that if we end up waiting for everyone to be available, we could be waiting forever- so I think it is best to do it when you can get enough people to call it a proper group chat, but without standing by and waiting on any one particular person. Also, not to be a crank, but the last group chat thingy was done during the day, and when I was at work, so it wasn't a huge deal when people got left out last time, and it shouldn't be a huge deal this time.
But, just to get a cursory idea- anyone open for tomorrow evening (that meaning Saturday evening) or Sunday sometime?
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[16:23] Alacar Leoricar: maybe if you do it'll make the porn more meaningful
hmm well its saturday morning err afternoon here so your evening would be my sunday morning/early afternoon i guess... if i can get myself to download skype ill try to give it a go, just dont make it a 100% assurance
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Quote from »
Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
edit: forgot to mention the link is to the english version of the song... which is still so damn good... still i cant help but feel no one here will like it
I have a tendency to refer to the Valhalla-building hardest opponent in Star Ocean 3 as Freya, as from my understanding she is supposed to be representing a main character from Valkyrie profile. The intention here is I'm not sure I'd like to see Mamelon going through MTGs and completely incinerating everyone, shouting "BEHOLD MY GODLIKE POWERS!" in the process. The problem is the cult may give her reason to want to do that every once in a while
It certainly makes sense. I played through the original FF as I liked the system, just in general what was happening, and also felt to me to be pretty replayable until I kind of figured out how to abuse a few certain things. When we rented FFII and FFIII, according to what I knew at the time, I adored them, but never finished them. Over time I just gradual gained an appreciation and became a small fanboy But yes, I digress. The point I wanted to make was that it happened to be in the household, and it got me started, and I liked the aspects of the game that made it an RPG.
Although I haven't had an opportunity to test your statements firsthand, it sounds pretty reasonable, based on the other discussion I've had about it. From my understanding, it was the changes between the battle systems and the plot device of SO3 that made it seem inferior to those who preferred SO2. Something about hating the shielding affects (needing to time waiting for the fury gauge to be completely charged at just the right moment, I'm guessing the inactivity and trickiness to pull off steered them away), and the generalized concept of all of the characters of the known universe being part of one big MMORPG kind of thing (basically a story line complaint). Overall, it sounds like certain biases to play styles between myself and my RPG friends are the reasons that they make the statement that SO3 is crap. So, your assessment that they break even makes sense to me... It doesn't at all surprise me at all that you feel that SO2 is a great game. You strike me as the kind to appreciate a game like that, from what I have heard and what you have said here. Same with Ethersphere, and I'll address his opinion in a moment
The combat system is indeed RPGish, and I make this statement for the reason that there are some aspects of the game that remind of Zelda, except placed in the context of turn based combat. Dungeon crawling and to a much smaller extent puzzle solving while going through said dungeons were prevalent, and I guess to me Zelda was the definition of an adventure style game. I suppose the Actraiser games are actually a much better indication of that, so I concede the point that my statement is more false than true.
I'd say 4 games now make a series, and it was clearly intended to be a series. The original Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen was deemed Chapter 5 in the opening, and Ogre Battle 64 was marked as Chapter 6. I'm not sure where Tactics Ogre falls in that line up, and until you brought it up I didn't know that the Anniversary collection was released. The game, I felt, was extremely good. I was frustrated with the original Ogre Battle at times solely for the reason that I would need to sit down and dedicate an afternoon to play through a chapter, and couldn't suspend it. Due to the nature of the length of the missions, it got to be hard at the time I played it to dedicate that large of a block of time, while still developing the characters the way I wanted them to be. This made me ecstatic when I got ahold of Ogre Battle 64 The suspend feature MADE the game for me As a result, it stands on one of my favorite tactical RPGs of all time.
Interesting. I know I've talked about my preferences for RPGs outside of FF before... perhaps you just missed them? Also, I find it disappointing that I keep missing out on video game related discussions... oftentimes Danica would inform me that it was the topic on the house at the time, and by the time I jump on the bandwagon it's already a topic I'm only bringing up in hindsight. -_- At least this time I managed to get ahold of you guys to talk about it I've been wanting to chat with you about this stuff for a while now... I've talked to Photon and read his work, which I did feel was amazingly deep and had all of the stuff that a good RPG story should have, and I really think some of his treasures should be developed at some point. It seems like he wants it to be absolutely perfect, and I just think it's already on another level that I would love to see, and any real RPG player would want to see.
The statement that you just made there makes it sound like a wonderful household you had I know that there were some divisions, but a mom that can appreciate Ogre Battle? That's, in my opinion, astounding. To have a personal connection to a game like that is something really special to have. As for the comparison of the tactics versions, I find it interesting that on the surface the two games LOOK and FEEL very similar, but have completely different underlying mechanics. I haven't played enough of Tactics Ogre, as said above, but it is one of those games that, if I get a chance to delve into, is immediately the kind of thing I would love to add to my list of completed games
I have met many tales fanatics, and clearly it speaks to me that I should give them a try, as there were raving reviews for it. Tales of Symphonia was heralded as the "only good RPG for the gamecube", even though I found Skies of Arcadia to also be a hidden treasure if you could get past the occasional immaturity of the characters
I'm trying to remember about Tales of the Abyss... I have a good friend who has played through many of the Tales series... he either also felt Tales of the Abyss was the best, or it was crap that shouldn't have been released. I need to get back to you on that, but as of right now I unfortunately have no opinion. Sigh.
I seriously, seriously should. I kept hearing that the game was good, but I haven't had a chance to really play any non-handheld games recently. But, there was a day that Danica over the summer showed me DQ8. I was absolutely amazed by what she showed me, as I was just very impressed at how they managed to make it feel so... CONNECTED to the rest of the series. A lot of the music was remastered and fit with pretty much every other game in the series, without making it feel like it was... well, ancient. The victory music stayed the same and felt retro, but at the same time wasn't. What I was probably most impressed by was the way they worked combat... the same tried and tested system, but it's the first time since Golden Sun that I've been impressed with the GRAPHICS of a turn based RPG! Just watching it felt glorious, innovative, and yet still true to the roots. It looks like it has more interaction with the party aspects of the game as well... what with being able to at random times just chat with the members of your group (at least, that's what it looked like), which reminded me of similar qualities in DWM and DWIII. Again, beautiful stuff, and I strongly look forward to playing it all.
YAY! I FINALLY managed to catch you guys in a real RPG discussion!
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Freya is a central figure in the VP storylines, as one of the highest ranking Aesir. She also has a strange sort of unspoken relationship with Odin, and historically has been a character that could not be trusted in the game proper, but could later be unlocked and used as a playable character. In the first game, you got her in your first mission, but after that she was just your contact to Asgard. If you performed poorly enough, you could be confronted by Freya in a challenge that is nigh-unbeatable, and even if you should somehow best her in combat she would still kill you and your game would end. However, she could be unlocked again in the optional dungeon. In VP2, she also plays a role, and shows up as a proper battle once again, oalthough this time with less difficulty. She can be recruited through the optional dungeon at the end of the game once more, and in her VP2 incarnation she is a good deal more useful. In VP1, she is incredibly powerful, but is something of a glass cannon with limited capacity and no equipment choices worth mentioning. She's one of my favorite VP characters, as she is just such a *****. She was one of the inspirations behind the character of Belphegor in first-run Rise, actually.
Sidenote: I've actually had both Freya and Odin as avatars in the past on MTGS.
SO2 is actually among my top five favorite games of all time (the others being Valkyrie Profile, Shadow Hearts Covenant, Final Fantasy VI, and Persona 2: Eternal Punishment, in no particular order). Part of the charm of the SO series is the rich character interactions and the options to develop your characters. In most games, you either can have a story in which characters are always involved in canon relationships (i.e. Yuna and Tidus will always be attached, Wakka will always be distrustful of Rikku) and the cast does not vary at all, or you can have ones in which you can total choice of who you recruit, but the characters do not ever acknowledge each other outside of the events in which they are obtained (many portions of Chrono Trigger, the SaGa series, Final Fantasy Tactics).
However, SO2 not only had a cast in which characters eventually developed stronger feelings for or against each other, but you had free reign to decide who you let join you outside of the two main characters. The main male lead, Claude, could fall in love with the main girl, Reina, or he could fall in love with the sorceress Celine, or the inventor Precis, or he could even end up throwing girls to the curb and shacking up with another guy if you played your cards right. Meanwhile, Celine and Reina might end up being the best of friends, or could be bitter rivals, or Celine might end up falling in love with a noble from some town, or Precis might be inspired by Claude and leave the planet to follow him, or they could all just go their separate ways. On top of that, you didn't have to get every character, but each character felt as though they had a place in the story and would make comments on events as if they were always scripted to be a part of it. It didn't matter who you recruited, the story always felt as though everyone was supposed to be there, as opposed to just having 2 people talk a la FF6 while Gogo and Gau sit around and twiddle their thumbs. Additionally, the storyline was respectful to the previous installment, and it preserved the blending of fantasy and sci fi pretty well. SO3 was less SO and more Star Trek at points (although the entire series does borrow heavily from ST), but it also had many story elements that not only downplayed the gravity of the game itself, but trivialized the grand scope of events that took place in all 3 SO games that came before it. I think that is why people were miffed at the concept. Additionally, you were sort of stuck with your characters, PAs were just a skeleton of their previous form, and the only real relationships you could impact were between Fayt and other characters- and even then, most of Fayt's actions made him lean heavily towards Sophia.
It's not a series that most people can play in completion, however. All the titles are pretty rare. It's quite possible to find one and never even see one of the other titles in your lifetime, which is sad.
Which work, exactly?
I was slow to get into the Tales series, but now it is one of my favorites. It does sort of have a crapload of titles to keep straight, but it does come out with a solid title more often than not. Phantasia, Destiny, and Symphonia are all the real hallmarks of the series, but I have a soft spot for Abyss. Abyss is a bit of a fence-rider. Some absolutely adore it, others loathe it. Story-wise, it is missing a lot of Tales conventions, and has some more mature elements- but it isn't the FFT to the SNES FF games in terms of that divide. Those that do not like it tend to dislike it because it has slow load times (about on par with FFXII or any late gen PS2 RPG), and it lacks in traditional Tales elements (summoning, quirky as hell comic relief characters, common character archetypes). Those that like it tend to enjoy the deepening of the battle system, the general rise in difficulty, and the storyline that isn't your standard anime game fare with a new face. Personally, I recommend it.
Sidenote: I'm actually of a pretty harsh opinion of the Golden Sun series, believe it or not.
All one really has to do is bring it up. As long as it isn't the old-as-hell discussions about FF, KH, or that mess, it isn't hard to get either of us going on this topic.
I think that Star Ocean 3's plot twist made the events of the other three games even more important, if that makes sense. An incoming migraine prevents me from getting too deep into it, but I think that knowledge of that one thing that changes everything you know about the series really gives everything more gravity, not less. It makes everything everyone has ever done within the confines of that galaxy to free themselves from some oppression or tyranny that much more important. I'm excited to see how they change the story of SO 1 and 2 in the PSP remakes to reflect that.
Tales of Symphonia wasn't the only good RPG on the Gamecube - Paper Mario 2 and the Baten Kaitos games come to mind immediately to accompany it. It was the most accessible, though, and I hate to say it but it took FFX's plot and made it interesting. One thing about the Tales of games that always shines is the cast, and I have to say after playing Abyss and Legendia, most of Symphonia's cast seems bland in comparison. Although my favorite Tales of character of all time is from Symphonia. Sheena will always be my favorite =)
Ah, it's been a really bad last couple of days for me. I've been sick, mostly, and only just now got the energy to do more than get out of bed and basic living functions. I skipped out on work both yesterday and today. I did finish all of Basilisk (an anime about ninjas), though, which I'd been meaning to do for a long time.
Killer Instict? Anybody? That and Primal Rage round out the list of fighting games that have also been turned into Magic cards - also games that I played waaay too much of in grade-school. I also remember Battletoads - and that I could never much get past the second part of that level where you climb down the giant pit and start riding on motorbikes. It was also the hayday of Super Metroid and Link to the Past, some of the best 2D games to come out, period. Ninja Turtles, Transformers, and Thundercats were on the tube... Good times, all around.
First of all, congratulations on having the courage to share this. It's a really great thing that you feel comfortable enough to do that now. You may be surprised, but I already knew your name, and have for quite some time. There were a few things said in the Coffeehouse long ago from which I inferred it. I haven't said anything out of respect, but now that it's out - I'm glad for you, but I won't think of you any differently. I think (well, for a lot of people here, anyway), there is not as much of a difference in expectations as you'd think. You've told us at length several times who you are and what you're about, even what you look like, and we're (or at least, I'm) fine with that. And as for meeting you - I'd like to meet several of the people here in the Coffeehouse, but feasibly, you guys are the only ones in the same state. That's why the opportunity came up more often. Again, congratulations on taking this step, as far as feeling comfortable with yourself.
Alrighty then... I just got the Policies/Procedures/Etc manual in the mail yesterday from Yonago and I haven't had a chance to read it yet. I'm going to take it in town and read it while I do some things on broadband. I need to e-mail all of my old profs again, since I didn't get a single reply when I asked for advice on my trip *grumble*. That, and a few new episodes of things came out I want to pick up.
The avatar of Freya does strongly remind me of that grand boss in SO3. I am correct that the "little girl" boss that desired to rebuild Vahalla and was basically released from an orb (and you could fight against her as often as you wanted) is supposed to be modeled after Freya, right? From what I remember, her name is different, but she looks the same, except for a different hair color. And she floats.
I strongly value differing interactions between the characters based on choices made during RPGs. Granted, I know that at times it can be difficult to program, depending on how many different directions the social interactions can take, but it is incredible when pulled off. Normally, I get disappointed in those situations as, by the end of the game, there feels like there is a glaring hole in the story. One such example was in Ogre Battle, you can make choices to have the character's father join you, but it may also not happen. I made the choices in which he did not join, and every mission I checked up and looked for what was going on with him... he was "missing in action", and never appeared again, even when his son was kinged, and all he really did was stop fighting and adbandoned the army. I was fairly disappointed. [/quote]
True, as I've only found and played 2, really. My exposure to Tactics wasn't enough, but that SEEMED to do the best of them.
When we were working on Rise, you sent me a design file of a work that you shelved and largely developed hoping to either get it made in game form, or a table top, but it didn't seem to rise off the ground enough. It involved a sealed fallen angel beneath the depths of a cathedral being released, if I remember correctly. You also showed me a battle outline against Jukar at the same time as an extra fight in the same series. When I get home, I may look it up if this is not enough information.
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It has been recommended to me before, and the comments here actually clarify a bit more what I remember of my friend's comments, which were largely along the lines that it wasn't a real Tales game and the fights were kind of stupid (in reference to Tales of the Abyss), so I'm pretty sure it was Abyss that he despised. From what I remember, it was either Phantasia or Destiny that was his favorite, with Symphonia rounding out 2nd place for him.
I have a pretty high opinion of it in many ways, but it felt like it very mechanically split up a solid RPG into 2 different parts. I liked the puzzle elements and combat graphics as well as the system. Things got a little complicated in terms of combat at the end of Lost Age, but I rather liked it. By then, strategy became fairly important in dealing with the more powerful bosses. I did feel like the mechanical divide between the games was pretty well done though, bringing in the exact characters from the previous game at the time that all of the characters are balanced, and then you get the mixing and matching abilities that can result in the various djinny, and they actually become relevant! Not just slapping all of the same elementally aligned djinn on a single character basically meant much more when you got to the endgame. Overall, I was impressed. What did you dislike? Was it too linear? I felt the story was relatively good, not the best, but pretty good.
A conversation can still come up for reminiscing or having someone be introduced to a new game for the first time though... or so I hope I know that you'll get involved as long as it isn't on a list of games that you guys don't like. Which is perfectly understandable.
I do find that SO3 perception interesting, just because it so strongly disagrees with the widespread concept that the plot twist destroyed the story. I personally don't mind it, and found it to be interesting... the concept of that kind of future in a world such as ours is intriguing. Unfortunately, I don't know enough about the rest of the SO stories to understand more than that... but I try
Also, Paper Mario 2 disappointed many of the Paper Mario fans, and I will always prefer Super Mario RPG to either Paper Mario game, to be honest. It is likely that is just personal opinion, as I hear mixed reviews. I also agree that Symphonia isn't the only good RPG for the game cube: did you try Skies of Arcadia, by any chance? I didn't finish it, but I thought the exploration elements of the game were pretty fantastic.
Former R&D Development Team W leader
For your information, it's pronounced Argh + was.
Proud Co-Founder of
Magic Coffeehouse!
Come in, sit down, relax, get to know somebody!
Not my question, but the original Ogre Battle game stands out in my mind as one of the greatest-designed games I've encountered. Not that it didn't have some flaws, but I'm still impressed by it. (It's aged much, much better than many games of its era.)
In what is game-play-wise one of my favorite games of all time, this sticks out as a weak point in my eyes. One thing I really, really like about modern RPGs is that characters get much, much better developed. (In many older games, characters join the party for some contrived reason, then don't get any dialogue until their one sidequest.) Bash on the game if you want, but I can't think of any SNES game where the characters are remotely as well developed as they are in FFVII. (I pick FFVII because it was a very early post-SNES RPG, not because the character development was especially good or especially poor.) Despite this, FFVI contains what are easily two of the most emotionally stirring moments in the series. (No spoilers, but one involves Locke and the other Cyan.) IV and VII, the games I've played the most after VI, don't have anything that even comes close, although Aeris's death might have been more powerful if I didn't know it was going to happen, and Cait Sith's sacrifice is cheapened mostly because it's resolved so quickly. IV's "tragedies" are nearly comical from the first, and before long seem truly absurd.
I liked the puzzle elements of the game, and I like that it was an RPG that didn't go out of its way to avoid cliches. That said, it was really darn generic.
VP isn't as hard to find now that it has been rereleased as VP: Lenneth on the PSP. The original PSX run is notoriously difficult to obtain. Luckily, I have my own copy, and a back up should anything ever happen to it.
Belphegor wasn't really one for flashy catch phrases, however. She would just as quickly put a knife in your temple and walk away without a word.
It IS Freya. It's just a super-deformed Freya. According to my copy of the strategy guide, her name is Freya, and she looks exactly like a SD anime version of the original Freya. And the original Freya floats, too. Her most notable catch phrase is different, though. Freya is best known for her after-battle quote, "My name is Freya. Recall it on your journey to Hell."
Yeah, it tends to make you glaringly aware you are playing a video game, and it sort of breaks some of the suspension of disbelief necessary to become engrossed in the game world.
I've only played 2, myself. Tactics Ogre is the most prolific and involved of the series, and also the most different. It is also the obvious spiritual ancestor to FF Tactics.
Ah, Demon's Ideology. Yeah, I worked on scenario, story, character, and some system on DI for a little over four years before feeling walled in and shelving the project until a future date. The game needs a lot of overhauling, I think, and until I can either hone some decent programming skills or find a programmer who can work with me that shares a passion for the project, it's permanently on my back burners. Some big pots just need to be on the back burners in order for you to keep them going, I think.
I find that comment a bit odd, because the battles were not much different from Symphonia. The only new addition was the addition of the fon fields in battle, which allowed you to maneuver to strategic places on the battlefield to gain access to special effects. Other than that, it played pretty close to ToS. Maybe he was thinking of Tales of Legendia, which is incredibly different, and is the FF8 of the Tales series. Josh likes it a lot, and I think it is a pretty interesting game, but a lot of the average fans are less forgiving of it for its changes.
I felt like the exploration of Aristotlian element spirits has been explored to its limits, the characterization felt awkward and stilted, and the gameplay itself felt fairly unoriginal once you got past the ability to use your various abilities to solve puzzles. Also, I resent when a company doesn't complete a storyline in a single title.
Every opinion on it I have ever heard has been in direct contrast to this statement, to be honest.
Oh man, you just Mamelon'd.. Mamelon.
Your voice sounds fine to me, Joyd. The thing is, when it comes to voice, we are our greatest critics.
Since I'm also on the topic, your voice sounds great Sephy.
This was called Devil's Incarnation, or DI, and it still is one of the most comprehensive RPG outlines I've ever read. It drips with style.
Paper Mario.. ahh. That game was wicked, and I'm glad the original's on the Wii Virtual Console. Great RPG, very unique style. Paper Mario 2 did little to innovate on it, but even so, Super Mario RPG remains one of my favorite RPGs.
Unrelated note: I started watching Robotech: The Macross Saga (Yes, not Macross; Robotech is what I grew up with), and it's amazing that after all this time, Minmei is STILL a neurotic bimbo and I end up hating her after episode 4.
Like freeform roleplaying? Try Darkness Befalls Us
Ryttare Kelasin Luna Orelinalei
Ironically, I can do a pretty good Gingy impression.
:xd: What?! It's Demon's Ideology, not Devil's Incarnation! Incidentally, this blog entry (sealed for freshness) features some touch ups on some of the core game mechanics.
Especially when you consider they occur roughly every 1.51 game hours.
*Alacar winces
Please sir, may I have another?
Like freeform roleplaying? Try Darkness Befalls Us
Ryttare Kelasin Luna Orelinalei
I'm beginning to think you did that on purpose, you pervert.
what else do you like? I'm always looking for more stuff...
I have
conditionedtrained him so wellCurrent New Favorite Person™: Mallory Archer
She knows why.
As far as spanish music goes im basically a fan of JLG and Maná (no not seiken densetsu, theres an actual mexican group called Maná), if we go into english music im a fan of punk and some other assorted groups... i never got into JPop though i dont know why, maybe not being able to understand kills it for me.
I'm very happy for you and proud too, i guess. I think the whole 'two separate people' thing is what caused me so much trouble, and now that I've dropped that I'm much happier. either way, just, i dunno what to do cept give you a big hug *glomp tackles mamelon*
edit: i'll catch up with other posts later, i promise ^_~
Once in a blue moon when I meet another somewhat serious MTG player, I always wonder if I haven't perhaps encountered them on here somewhere.
Was he aware of who you were, or was it sort of a case where you were both "Oh, I hang out on MTGS, too", and didn't explore it any further?
hahaha I was never aware of any OTHER type of Maná besides the band...:p and of course what you get from mana sources.
ever listen to los yaguaru, Kumbia Kings, control machete, molotov, cypress hill, trulala, fulanito, olga tañon, willie colón?
And you didn't even have to fight anything... too bad there was no XP or gold looting out of it though.
Sorry for the bad geek joke people...
Speaking of unexpected encounters, today I ran into someone I haven't seen since junior year of high school. And funnily enough the one thing he came to me about was Magic. Played a few casual games, picked up some Incinerates, Remands, and Spell Snares on the cheap, and even got to smash some multiplayer face with his elf deck I modified. Smashed a large 90 points of damage in one turn too. It did teach me that I'm pretty much done with Magic on the large scale too. Sticking to the occasional casual game and that's about it. Nothing weekly or anything anymore unless its over MWS or involves drafting (which I still find incredibly fun). Tis' a sad day but I expected it to come sooner or later.
Yes i have heard them all... molotov is good as long as you dont mind profanities every 15 seconds (which me having a kid means a big no-no), control machete and kumbia kings i havent heard in so long i kinda have forgtten the liyrics to their musics you should try genitalica...funny spanish punk that is not from mexico raton blanco was also a good group a couple of years ago..havent checked them since though... you have a love for oldies huh? jejejejje if you dont have it then i recomend bachata rosa from JLG and the new cd as soon as possible jejejeje
I think that if we end up waiting for everyone to be available, we could be waiting forever- so I think it is best to do it when you can get enough people to call it a proper group chat, but without standing by and waiting on any one particular person. Also, not to be a crank, but the last group chat thingy was done during the day, and when I was at work, so it wasn't a huge deal when people got left out last time, and it shouldn't be a huge deal this time.
But, just to get a cursory idea- anyone open for tomorrow evening (that meaning Saturday evening) or Sunday sometime?
morningerr afternoon here so your evening would be my sunday morning/early afternoon i guess... if i can get myself to download skype ill try to give it a go, just dont make it a 100% assurance