What do you think of a similar maindeck, save instead of JTMS, two Grave Titan, replacing Precursor Golem with Wurmcoil Engine and perhaps playing around with the mana base a bit? Just out of curiosity.
I think the best thing that mox has got going for it is its early game potential, with a mox and a chalice in your opener its possible to get a 5/5 blocker/attacker with a T3 tezz, I think its more towards magical christmas land, but swinging for 5 t3, playing koth, animating chalice and a mountain and swinging for 14 turn 4 is just degenerate.
Initially I thought twitch was just an untap ability, I can see how it could prove useful as a single use magnet, extra style points for untapping a precursor! It may cost a little more, but far less gimmicky than running a couple of twisted image, and hoping to hit precursor with it.
I must admit, the meta in this area is mostly control / aggro, facing Caw and boros, with only 2 or 3 valakut, so the mark / instinct slots in SB are there mostly just in case, and haven't had an opportunity to test extensively.
while on the topic of local metagame, your ever decreasing amount of sweepers scares me! I don't think that 6 between main and side isnt slightly excessive, but I'd rather have access to them sooner than I needed rather than lose to not finding one.
I'm also loving the BSZ in the side for the occasions that Thrun pops up, without it he can be a pain to remove. Not to mention bsz ruins boros.
well, all the best at nationals, hopefully yours goes a lot better than mine did! belive it was my fault for re-building a deck on the morning, having a guess at what i should sideboard, and not a single games playtesting, was doomed from the start really, Live and learn I guess!
Opals have been hit and miss. They are powerful when you land one and activate it early on. Late game they just suck to have, and I notice a solid strategy that is kind of hard to deal with is them cutting down your metal craft. I often side out Opals... still not sure about the card to be honest.
Currently I might take them out for Spell Pierce to be honest. Or Dispel.
Twitch is a card I have been interested in maybe running as a 2 or as well.
Mark is just cheaper and essentially you should be using Mark to put them down on their knees and move in for the kill next turn regardless of them getting the creature back with a +1/+1 counter on it. Instinct was my original choice against Valakut but overall Mark is just better...
I will be playing Grixis Tezzeret in some form at my National Qualifier. I might also be attending Regionals in Seattle this weekend if I can find another person to ride with me there.
Firstly I would like to say thanks for putting this list up, and keeping it updated, of all the tezz brews going around I'm finding it one of the most consistent, and i'm enjoying playing more than other versions i've played.
Like the previous poster I'm intruiged by how mox opal has been working for you? at a glance its taking the place of a pyroclasm, and dragonskull summit?
One thing I tend to wonder (not just this deck, but in general), is why mark of mutiny is played over traitorous instinct, the extra mana seems a small price to pay when your opp doesn't gain the +1+1 that mark gives, and you get an extra point of damage through (correct me if i'm wrong by all means, but the extra damage is what the mark's there for in the first place)
I look forward to future updates, have you got any plans to take this to a larger tournament ?
Multpiile tectonics hurt early game. Ihave had it happen twice to me in all of my testing though. Most players are not willing to sacrifice 2 lands to destroy two of your lands early on when you have a sphere of the suns to keep you out of the red zone. Your manabase in your hand has to be indirect correlation with what is in your hand as usual. Hitting a T3 play is not hard if you are keeping a good hand.
I have not tried Crystal Ball. It sounds interesting, I am not sure I would want to toss a 1 drop scry ANS draw spell for it though. Let me know how it works in testing
Ok, that makes sense. I have a couple more questions too.
Do you ever get mana screwed from the tectonics? I was running 4 in my initial build and 2 of the 4 games I played they screwed me cause they were 2-3 of my first 4 lands. Granted, I probably should have mulliganed more aggressively (and it was a small sample size) but I try not to do that when I'm first testing a new deck so I can get a feel for what works and what doesn't. Or does the deck just rely on sphere of the suns to balance everything out? It seems like it would be hard to have BBRRUU by turn 4 for slagstorm, koth, BSZ, and/or Jace.
Have you tested/considered testing any number of Crystal Balls in place of preordains? I'm going to test it myself eventually but just wondered if you have or your thoughts on it. I probably wouldn't consider it if it weren't for the fact it has synergy with Tezz, but I feel like it at least deserves a shot.
There are matches when you want to be the controller and there are matches where you want to be the aggressor. The fence on which this deck walks is situated right in middle of the two extremes. Having the ability to turn on a dime when it needs it. For matches where it needs a little more aggression, you mulligan to it. For matches where it needs a little more control, you side for it. Counters are not bad main, but I have found them to be underwhelming against the current meta. Flashfreeze is for the Valakut Match, but their Titans should not scare you as you are needing to be aggressive in the match. Hitting hard early game and switching to control late game is the key here. Mark of Mutiny is the reason why you want a Titan to land as it pushes through extra mid to late game damage. Tumble Magnets are used for the extra turns the Titan is sitting on their side ready to swing.
Shatter is for Caw-Blade, it is also for other Tezzeret Matches, Rogue Infect and Boros. Shatter might be able to come out, but in the matches where it matters it might as well be added spot removal that removes the actual threat, not what becomes the threat.
Baby Jace does not work well in here. Big Jace is mainly used for the -1. He is there to set you up for a slam or two that is about it. Not to mention your curve would rather have you dropping a ramp spell, or a tumble magnet.
Figured I'd just post here, rather than the thread, because you seem like the one who has played the Grixis version the most (or at least the most competently). If MD counters are bad (I'll take your word and try it without them,as I'd rather trust someone who has played the deck), why the SB flashfreeze? Would doom blade/Go for the Throat be better if it's just for the Valakut MU? And is shatter for caw-blade? And is it necessary? I'm not trying to critique your choices, just trying to understand the reason as I've only played a handful of games with the deck and would like to accelerate the learning curve as much as possible.
*edit: Also would baby Jace be viable option for the deck to lower the 4 drop count? Cost isn't an issue, as I have both Jaces, just wondering.
I have never done that, but yes it is doable if you find the situation calling for it. Though I think at that point it is just a win more. Usually they are used to fish out removal before dropping an Inferno Titan.
Ooh... Jace's -1 works nicely for that purpose... though I don't know that you want to necessarily use that ability on your own creatures all that often... but re-casting it to get a total of 5 golems on the board isn't bad either!
T3 - Cast Tezz
T4 - Cast Golem, turn a token into a 5/5.
T5 - Cast Jace, bounce golem, turn a token into a 5/5
T6 - Cast golem, bounce with Jace, turn a token into a 5/5
Precursor Golem was my favorite card out of Scars. From the moment I saw it spoiled I had to get 4x foil ones on pre-order.
The creature is house in this deck. Not only does it force them to remove it, but if they can't you have a 9/3 for 5 that can send Tezzerets ultimate over the edge. 3 Blockers if you need to, AND if you manage to kill the Precursor and leave the tokens behind, the ability which says they are all targeted is then null and void.
Can I ask what the Precursor Golems really do in this deck? Is it just so you get a lot of guys on the board and they have to try and deal with it? It would be cool if you could 3 for 1 with Tezz's -1, but that doesn't work... I like the deck and am thinking about putting it together.
I have been playing around with Galvanic Blast and it has proved very useful against caw-go and other aggro match ups, with the 2 toughness creatures being very annoying, and if I happen to roll into one a few turns later when I have metalcraft up, it's alot better lol. Came in handy against opposing PW's and such also.
The Sparkmages was just an idea I was going to play around with. The list has been updated today, along with my SB. Granted this SB is going to change for the GPT, this is what I am using for my local FNM.
I never likes Trans-formative SB's they are cute, but that is about it.
I will share my sideboard plans when I have more testing done, I actually will probably be uploading my Kuldotha SB plans a bit later today.
Sweepers usually come out against control decks save for things like Caw-Blade. Usually the first card I look at taking out is actually Koth. In an aggro match he does me little good as the mountain is only a creature on my turn. Which is not always a bad thing, but something I usually do not deem necessary in the game plan for an aggro match.
Throne of Geth is a sub par card in the list. I found that it is a really strong card... when you are basing your deck around proliferation. Usually I generate enough CA to just play whatever walker they are killing after it dies.
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How has precursor golem worked for you?
Initially I thought twitch was just an untap ability, I can see how it could prove useful as a single use magnet, extra style points for untapping a precursor! It may cost a little more, but far less gimmicky than running a couple of twisted image, and hoping to hit precursor with it.
I must admit, the meta in this area is mostly control / aggro, facing Caw and boros, with only 2 or 3 valakut, so the mark / instinct slots in SB are there mostly just in case, and haven't had an opportunity to test extensively.
while on the topic of local metagame, your ever decreasing amount of sweepers scares me! I don't think that 6 between main and side isnt slightly excessive, but I'd rather have access to them sooner than I needed rather than lose to not finding one.
I'm also loving the BSZ in the side for the occasions that Thrun pops up, without it he can be a pain to remove. Not to mention bsz ruins boros.
well, all the best at nationals, hopefully yours goes a lot better than mine did! belive it was my fault for re-building a deck on the morning, having a guess at what i should sideboard, and not a single games playtesting, was doomed from the start really, Live and learn I guess!
Currently I might take them out for Spell Pierce to be honest. Or Dispel.
Twitch is a card I have been interested in maybe running as a 2 or as well.
Mark is just cheaper and essentially you should be using Mark to put them down on their knees and move in for the kill next turn regardless of them getting the creature back with a +1/+1 counter on it. Instinct was my original choice against Valakut but overall Mark is just better...
I will be playing Grixis Tezzeret in some form at my National Qualifier. I might also be attending Regionals in Seattle this weekend if I can find another person to ride with me there.
Like the previous poster I'm intruiged by how mox opal has been working for you? at a glance its taking the place of a pyroclasm, and dragonskull summit?
One thing I tend to wonder (not just this deck, but in general), is why mark of mutiny is played over traitorous instinct, the extra mana seems a small price to pay when your opp doesn't gain the +1+1 that mark gives, and you get an extra point of damage through (correct me if i'm wrong by all means, but the extra damage is what the mark's there for in the first place)
I look forward to future updates, have you got any plans to take this to a larger tournament ?
I have not tried Crystal Ball. It sounds interesting, I am not sure I would want to toss a 1 drop scry ANS draw spell for it though. Let me know how it works in testing
Do you ever get mana screwed from the tectonics? I was running 4 in my initial build and 2 of the 4 games I played they screwed me cause they were 2-3 of my first 4 lands. Granted, I probably should have mulliganed more aggressively (and it was a small sample size) but I try not to do that when I'm first testing a new deck so I can get a feel for what works and what doesn't. Or does the deck just rely on sphere of the suns to balance everything out? It seems like it would be hard to have BBRRUU by turn 4 for slagstorm, koth, BSZ, and/or Jace.
Have you tested/considered testing any number of Crystal Balls in place of preordains? I'm going to test it myself eventually but just wondered if you have or your thoughts on it. I probably wouldn't consider it if it weren't for the fact it has synergy with Tezz, but I feel like it at least deserves a shot.
There are matches when you want to be the controller and there are matches where you want to be the aggressor. The fence on which this deck walks is situated right in middle of the two extremes. Having the ability to turn on a dime when it needs it. For matches where it needs a little more aggression, you mulligan to it. For matches where it needs a little more control, you side for it. Counters are not bad main, but I have found them to be underwhelming against the current meta. Flashfreeze is for the Valakut Match, but their Titans should not scare you as you are needing to be aggressive in the match. Hitting hard early game and switching to control late game is the key here. Mark of Mutiny is the reason why you want a Titan to land as it pushes through extra mid to late game damage. Tumble Magnets are used for the extra turns the Titan is sitting on their side ready to swing.
Shatter is for Caw-Blade, it is also for other Tezzeret Matches, Rogue Infect and Boros. Shatter might be able to come out, but in the matches where it matters it might as well be added spot removal that removes the actual threat, not what becomes the threat.
Baby Jace does not work well in here. Big Jace is mainly used for the -1. He is there to set you up for a slam or two that is about it. Not to mention your curve would rather have you dropping a ramp spell, or a tumble magnet.
@Alhan, I replied to your message
*edit: Also would baby Jace be viable option for the deck to lower the 4 drop count? Cost isn't an issue, as I have both Jaces, just wondering.
T3 - Cast Tezz
T4 - Cast Golem, turn a token into a 5/5.
T5 - Cast Jace, bounce golem, turn a token into a 5/5
T6 - Cast golem, bounce with Jace, turn a token into a 5/5
Nice.
The creature is house in this deck. Not only does it force them to remove it, but if they can't you have a 9/3 for 5 that can send Tezzerets ultimate over the edge. 3 Blockers if you need to, AND if you manage to kill the Precursor and leave the tokens behind, the ability which says they are all targeted is then null and void.
I never likes Trans-formative SB's they are cute, but that is about it.
Sweepers usually come out against control decks save for things like Caw-Blade. Usually the first card I look at taking out is actually Koth. In an aggro match he does me little good as the mountain is only a creature on my turn. Which is not always a bad thing, but something I usually do not deem necessary in the game plan for an aggro match.