The Altar plan might not be deterministic without Bridge, but would it still be potent enough to be viable? Banning Hoogak would certainly neuter Altar to the point where it wouldn't be.
Banning Hogaak would certainly kill this version of the deck. So at the cost of the actual most interesting design in the set, we would get a reprieve....for what a month or two? Then something else steps into that same shell and the cool card is banned for years. If something needs to go, it's not the big beater that requires work, it's the stuff that keeps taking these fair and neat cards and doing awful things with them. Like Eye of Ugin wasn't broken, it was the genius who decided to make Eldrazi do something the tribe was never meant to have.
Eye was broken.
Regardless, I agree. Dont ban Hogaak. Thats a neat card doing crazy things...on the back of Bridge, and Altar.
Just remove Bridge if you are of the 'it has interesting lines of play' mindset, or both Bridge and Altar/Ghast if you want to 'nuke from orbit'.
I also fear the F2F event is what may happen this weekend, and why I'm absolutely BEGGING people to play Hogaak at the GP/SCG event. If its anything but overwhelming, we are stuck with this thing for at least a few months, and that would really suck.
I think that if any one card should get banned if (when) it comes to that, Bridge is the true abusive engine card. I think banning Hogaak effectively takes Altar out of playability, and that a graveyard-based deck with a mill angle would be more competitive and fun (even taken down a peg by losing Bridge) than an otherwise pre-Horizons Bridgevine deck with Carrion Feeder added.
The Altar plan might not be deterministic without Bridge, but would it still be potent enough to be viable? Banning Hogaak would certainly neuter Altar to the point where it wouldn't be.
The format doesn't need or want two-mana unconditional land destruction, as it would invalidate many decks and create way more feel-bads in play patterns (similar reasons to why Hymn to Tourach should never be Modern legal).
It could use some more versatile three-mana land destruction, though. Pillage was a fine start, along with the white Beast Within, but Vindicate and/or similar would be very welcome.
Unsettled Mariner
WU
Creature - Shapeshifter
Changeling (This card is every creature type.)
Whenever you or a permanent you control becomes the target of a spell or ability an opponent controls, counter that spell or ability unless its controller pays 1.
pretty interesting tribal addition if you ask me. humans, spirits, and merfolk come to mind.
Wow, this is really good. Hard to imagine Humans not running any of these. Hope there are few other spoilers left that are this strong.
Oh sure, and I don't think we should ever expect direct plants of most of the Legacy staples. Some of my favorite MH1 cards are the blue, green, and black Forces because they are powerful answers that aren't format-breaking. That power level and flexibility is what I would have liked in both new cards and direct reprints. Wasteland, Hymn, Price of Progress? Oh heck no. Containment Priest, Vindicate, and Undermine? Yes please, instead of cute meme cards in my $8 packs.
Many of the build-arounds here are nice, and should stir up the meta without planting power cards into the best decks. RG Land strategies really got some nice tools, as did Company decks. Even single card plants like Scale Up in Infect can really do amazing things. And hey, great dual land cycle! If the majority of the set would have been this way, I wouldn't be posting this now. I was as excited for this set as any since the format's inception, at least as much as Dominaria and WAR. For me, those two nailed it...and this hasn't, when considering the premium pricing. Not bad, really, just...not quite there like the best recent sets.
And knowing we probably won't get another direct-to-Modern set for two years, ouch...this feels like Iconic Masters did when it was fully spoiled for several reasons. Many great cards, but a sense that the delivery of the product didn't align with expectations. Sorry for being a downer; I won't post about this anymore, but I can't help but feel a bit deflated, despite some real positives, for the reasons above.
Tons of cards in this set are going to Top 8 GP/PT's over the next year and we STILL have cards left to go...
It's not the fact that there aren't powerful cards; there are some that will significantly impact the format. For me, it's that this was a chance to get some really interesting old reprints, but instead we got many cards, themes, and cycles more squarely aimed at Commander instead.
Now don't get me wrong; I love seeing Carrion Feeder, Goblin Matron, and the cycling lands again. Kudos to Wizards for these! For a set that commands a premium price, though, it just feels like we missed out on some more cards like Vindicate and Containment Priest for...bear lords? Or more of the callbacks done in ways to prop up more fair decks instead, like a Rishadan Port variant that couldn't target basics, or a better Torpor Orb that could stuff land or artifact triggers as well. Heck, just call it Time Spiral 2, or Magic Anthology, and lose the premium pricing. It feels like the Modern considerations are secondary here based on the overall contents, but that the push to drop supplemental cards directly into the format is the entire reason we're paying a premium. I love a lot of these cards, both new and old, but it doesn't feel very Modern-centric to me, if that makes sense.
The BW and GB rares spoiled over the last two days all but guarantee no reprints of Vindicate or Pernicious Deed. This set...it's flavorful and interesting, but I can't help but be a bit disappointed by the lack of playable reprints for Modern. Don't get me wrong; there are some quality cards here, and I'm an older player who probably got too invested on the chance for some old favorites to make it into Modern. That said, for $10 a pack, I was expecting a few more bones to be tossed than what we got. At least the land cycle is amazing.
The only notable omissions at this time, that I still expect to happen, would be:
1. BGx throwbacks/reprints/fixes (e.g. Hymn, Deluge, Deed, DRS, etc.)
2. Iconic eternal card throwbacks/fixes (e.g. Wasteland, Brainstorm, Swords to Plowshares, Daze)
3. Graveyard hate
There are also several unknown artifact and land slots available to address some of these callbacks; Dust Bowl is still possible, even if all of either the Onslaught cycling or Mirage fetch lands are in.
Between the new Ouphe and a likely rise in popularity of Infect and Company decks, having access to Dismember looks like it will become increasingly important for any version of Green Tron.
Flusterstorm is the new BAB promo (with new art), and a new/fixed version of Astral Slide:
Astral Drift 2W Enchantment Whenever you cycle Astral Drift or cycle another card while Astral Drift is on the battlefield, you may exile target creature. Return that creature to the battlefield under its owner's control at the beginning of the next end step. Cycling 2W
Just got back from an FNM that was one of the most exciting I've played in years, thanks to Blast Zone and Karn the Great Creator. I started skeptical, but it was amazing having so much more game against everything I played.
2-1 against Infect, thanks to careful coordination of Blast Zone, Karn for Sorcerous Spyglass, then Lattice after end-of-turn board wipe. Of note, I had Ulamog in hand with the ten mana open to cast him, and it still wasn't the best play that last turn thanks to the KGC/Lattice lock. Gross.
2-0 against Jund Shadow, because Blast Zone laughs at Death's Shadow, Monastery Swiftspear, and Soul Scar Mage.
1-2 against GB Rock; even with loads of Assassin's Trophy, Field of Ruin, Fulminator Mage, and Surgical Extraction, it was still extremely close, basically coming down to missing a land drop for several turns in both of the games I lost. My opponent shared the sentiment, and was also blown away by how much Karn brought to the table. He even commented on how much more fun and exciting it was than the classic Tron builds to play against.
2-1 against Humans, who have no answers for a game one Ensnaring Bridge at one (soon to be zero) besides Noble Hierarch and a prayer. Damping Sphere carried him far enough in the second game with a good clock for him to get the win. The third game I fought through two Damping Spheres, three Mantis Riders, and three Meddling Mages among other things to have exactly enough mana to crack O-Stone during his attack when I was at three life...with an online Tower and a Blast Zone set to two. He dropped Mage naming Ugin, then the Thalia. I end-of-turn Blasted, then promptly dropped KGC and fetched Lattice. At this point there was a small crowd watching, and audible "ooo"s from them when I announced this and my opponent asked, "What does Lattice do?"
2-1 against UW Control. The game he won, he had a good tempo plan with plenty of Fields and Cryptics (bounce land, draw) with a JtMS out after I mulled pretty hard. The other games, Tron did Tron things (now with more Lattice).
It's hard for me to stress how much I underestimated the ability to toolbox for cards like Ensnaring Bridge, Sorcerous Spyglass, and Lattice could turn matches around. I haven't felt this positive for a significant deck change since Newlamog was printed, and Ugin prior to that. Everyone I played enjoyed it, and there were always people watching and being blown away as well.
To be fair, this was just a single FNM, and there were cards that never came in, like Trinisphere and Witchbane Orb. Importantly, I just never felt like I needed them, and I never had to worry about drawing them as dead cards. The new Karn is low curve, which helps so much when you don't have Tron online but still need options. He keeps you in the match, or he ends it on the spot faster than anything else we play (even the other planeswalkers and Eldrazi).
Blast Zone is absolutely fantastic in a deck that generates lots of mana, needs cheap interaction, can fetch lands, hates Stony Silence, and has access to Crucible. There were two games where I ran out of Forests (once against GB, once against UW), but the next fetch wasn't relevant. The points we make up from Blast Zone versus losing the fifth Forest feels very worth it.
I know I'm ranting, but I'm just in awe (practically disbelief) about how positive of an impact these WAR cards have had on this deck. To everyone who was backing the wishboard build from the beginning, you were definitely right. It's very hard for me to imagine this not being a significantly better build against an open field.
This is where I'm at currently with the deck. The key card that I glossed over initially was Ensnaring Bridge. Not intuitively good for us but actually stops a lot of relevant things - Awoken Horror, Primeval Titan and Death's Shadow in particular. And I've also even been able to stop smaller creatures as well. Emptying our hand is not as difficult as you might think, especially when you consider London allows us better 6 and 5 card hands. Mull to a 5 of t3 Tron and Great Creator, fetch Bridge. Not bad at all.
This list seems pretty reasonable against the field, though further testing and tweaking of numbers/slots is certainly required.
Glad the new Karn is working for you. I had dismissed Ensnaring Bridge for being too inconsistent, so we're all learning the best ways to run with the toolbox plan. Speaking of which, how has Trinisphere been working out for you?
It could use some more versatile three-mana land destruction, though. Pillage was a fine start, along with the white Beast Within, but Vindicate and/or similar would be very welcome.
Many of the build-arounds here are nice, and should stir up the meta without planting power cards into the best decks. RG Land strategies really got some nice tools, as did Company decks. Even single card plants like Scale Up in Infect can really do amazing things. And hey, great dual land cycle! If the majority of the set would have been this way, I wouldn't be posting this now. I was as excited for this set as any since the format's inception, at least as much as Dominaria and WAR. For me, those two nailed it...and this hasn't, when considering the premium pricing. Not bad, really, just...not quite there like the best recent sets.
And knowing we probably won't get another direct-to-Modern set for two years, ouch...this feels like Iconic Masters did when it was fully spoiled for several reasons. Many great cards, but a sense that the delivery of the product didn't align with expectations. Sorry for being a downer; I won't post about this anymore, but I can't help but feel a bit deflated, despite some real positives, for the reasons above.
Now don't get me wrong; I love seeing Carrion Feeder, Goblin Matron, and the cycling lands again. Kudos to Wizards for these! For a set that commands a premium price, though, it just feels like we missed out on some more cards like Vindicate and Containment Priest for...bear lords? Or more of the callbacks done in ways to prop up more fair decks instead, like a Rishadan Port variant that couldn't target basics, or a better Torpor Orb that could stuff land or artifact triggers as well. Heck, just call it Time Spiral 2, or Magic Anthology, and lose the premium pricing. It feels like the Modern considerations are secondary here based on the overall contents, but that the push to drop supplemental cards directly into the format is the entire reason we're paying a premium. I love a lot of these cards, both new and old, but it doesn't feel very Modern-centric to me, if that makes sense.
There are also several unknown artifact and land slots available to address some of these callbacks; Dust Bowl is still possible, even if all of either the Onslaught cycling or Mirage fetch lands are in.
Astral Drift 2W Enchantment Whenever you cycle Astral Drift or cycle another card while Astral Drift is on the battlefield, you may exile target creature. Return that creature to the battlefield under its owner's control at the beginning of the next end step. Cycling 2W
3 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Walking Ballista
Planeswalkers:
4 Karn Liberated
4 Karn, the Great Creator
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Artifacts:
4 Chromatic Star
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Expedition Map
3 Oblivion Stone
2 Relic of Progenitus
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Sylvan Scrying
Mana
4 Urza's Tower
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Blast Zone
1 Sanctum of Ugin
3 Thragtusk
3 Nature's Claim
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Sorcerous Sypglass
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Walking Ballista
1 Trinisphere
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Witchbane Orb
2-1 against Infect, thanks to careful coordination of Blast Zone, Karn for Sorcerous Spyglass, then Lattice after end-of-turn board wipe. Of note, I had Ulamog in hand with the ten mana open to cast him, and it still wasn't the best play that last turn thanks to the KGC/Lattice lock. Gross.
2-0 against Jund Shadow, because Blast Zone laughs at Death's Shadow, Monastery Swiftspear, and Soul Scar Mage.
1-2 against GB Rock; even with loads of Assassin's Trophy, Field of Ruin, Fulminator Mage, and Surgical Extraction, it was still extremely close, basically coming down to missing a land drop for several turns in both of the games I lost. My opponent shared the sentiment, and was also blown away by how much Karn brought to the table. He even commented on how much more fun and exciting it was than the classic Tron builds to play against.
2-1 against Humans, who have no answers for a game one Ensnaring Bridge at one (soon to be zero) besides Noble Hierarch and a prayer. Damping Sphere carried him far enough in the second game with a good clock for him to get the win. The third game I fought through two Damping Spheres, three Mantis Riders, and three Meddling Mages among other things to have exactly enough mana to crack O-Stone during his attack when I was at three life...with an online Tower and a Blast Zone set to two. He dropped Mage naming Ugin, then the Thalia. I end-of-turn Blasted, then promptly dropped KGC and fetched Lattice. At this point there was a small crowd watching, and audible "ooo"s from them when I announced this and my opponent asked, "What does Lattice do?"
2-1 against UW Control. The game he won, he had a good tempo plan with plenty of Fields and Cryptics (bounce land, draw) with a JtMS out after I mulled pretty hard. The other games, Tron did Tron things (now with more Lattice).
It's hard for me to stress how much I underestimated the ability to toolbox for cards like Ensnaring Bridge, Sorcerous Spyglass, and Lattice could turn matches around. I haven't felt this positive for a significant deck change since Newlamog was printed, and Ugin prior to that. Everyone I played enjoyed it, and there were always people watching and being blown away as well.
To be fair, this was just a single FNM, and there were cards that never came in, like Trinisphere and Witchbane Orb. Importantly, I just never felt like I needed them, and I never had to worry about drawing them as dead cards. The new Karn is low curve, which helps so much when you don't have Tron online but still need options. He keeps you in the match, or he ends it on the spot faster than anything else we play (even the other planeswalkers and Eldrazi).
Blast Zone is absolutely fantastic in a deck that generates lots of mana, needs cheap interaction, can fetch lands, hates Stony Silence, and has access to Crucible. There were two games where I ran out of Forests (once against GB, once against UW), but the next fetch wasn't relevant. The points we make up from Blast Zone versus losing the fifth Forest feels very worth it.
I know I'm ranting, but I'm just in awe (practically disbelief) about how positive of an impact these WAR cards have had on this deck. To everyone who was backing the wishboard build from the beginning, you were definitely right. It's very hard for me to imagine this not being a significantly better build against an open field.