Quick notes:
My reads were completely backwards almost all game. If it wasn't for Iso regularly keeping me on the straight and narrow, I would have been either mislynched D1 or D2. Iso called all of the scum team except for Seppel. The only reason I didn't pursue Seppel as hard was because Iso kept telling me he was town. And since Iso was right about Caex, Stardust, and Wessel, I couldn't NOT follow his logic! lol
For the entirety of D1 I pretty much had town reads on Caex/Stardust/Wessel. >>' Bad game for me all around.
Xyre: I'm sorry. I got so caught up in how since Caex was the first to claim a cop that we shouldn't have been killing him. I was getting a lot of town tells from you, but I just kept seeing your push on Caex to be scummy. It never crossed my mind that you were so hard on killing him because you were also a power role. I couldn't put myself in your mindset.
DRey: Sorry about some of the harsh things I said in the mason chat. It was a rough couple weeks for me IRL. I was absolutely convinced you were the mafia toughguy due to the rest of the town power and your play. Then again, I've never played with you before, but everyone was telling me you always play like this. One of the times meta actually mattered.
Wessel: Thank you. Great play this game, phenomenal save of me. In my opinion, you're pretty good at looking town even if you're alignment isn't.
Voxx: Great game. We pretty much had the game won as of post 1160, but then Zinda waffled and that gave me too much time to over think things and wifom the crap out of myself.
Any who: Go town.
Vote: Seppel
One of the reasons I have been trying to get zinda to respond to the game is because I knew I wasn't goi.g to be online today. I'm glad thw soitwe decided to work ony phone whil I'm in this building.
Game over, good game everyone.
You still have done nothing to explain to me why you think voxx is town or responded to what I've asked you. If you decide to vote for seppel, then it's 2v2 and we no lynch, potentially putting us in the exact same situation tomorrow. Where is the "making every minute count" when you're not actually participating?
@Zinda: What makes you think that Voxx is town? All you've said so far is that you believe he is. Can you elaborate and explain to me why you think he's town?
How do you feel about my response to your questions?
How do you feel about how much Voxx is mod gaming and appeals to emotion?
Can you at least say something besides "It's a tough decision and we have time."
Seppel, Voxx, Iso, and I have all pretty much exhausted every line of inquiry and questions that we can without your participation in this game. There's nothing else I can think of that we can say, and it's not fair to Asian, any spectators, or the dead players of the game to sit around and wait for days without you posting something that will move the game along.
From Iso: "@zindabad: You can have your paranoia - Voxx had made it clear that his anti-town modus operandi is to make endgame difficult for himself and out-WIFOM the remaining players. Just go see Vocx's explanation for his sub-par kill choices post-game in FHF."
What I'm having trouble understanding is that Voxx knew I was going to jail Seppel last night - I told him as much. So he knew that if he killed, it would become very difficult to convince me or anyone that Seppel was scum. The optimal play there, if he was dead-set on using a kill last night, would be to kill DYH, then "confirm" Seppel and try to pin all the blame on WoLG. But meanwhile Voxx has barely said a word about WoLG and continues to attack the more difficult target.
Voxx started off today trying to do exactly that: His first three posts today were him saying that I'm scum and faking the mason claim. I shut that down pretty quickly by offering proof to both you and Seppel. He realized that there's no way he could push a "Scum with out of game mason" lynch, especially after both you and Seppel were already pretty convinced I was town. (At least after Wessel flipped Gollum, anyway. You two were doubters for a day or so there.)
Also, why not kill me last night if he was scum? He knew I was the jailer, but nobody else did. Oh, that's right, because he had already claimed my role. Why would he do that as scum? He volunteered to take on that gambit. All he had to do was go, "Oh, yes, you're town jailer, yes, jailing Seppel? Oh, excellent plan, of course" and then kill me.
Possible explanation for his behavior? I'd especially like to hear from WoLG as I'm getting something of a paranoid feeling about him.
I'm assuming he didn't kill you for two reasons.
1.) He already had you 100% convinced that he was behaviorally town, even with his shady vanilla claim and Che's awful behavior.
2.) Going into an endgame situation like this, there's no way he could have left DYH (a claimed governor) alive.
As for why he volunteered to take on that gambit, I posit two reasons:
1.) He's an experienced player and taking on that gambit while leaving you alive would give him an ally in the end game.
2.) He's cocky.
@Voxx: You mentioned it in 1176 that we should look back at Che's play and your interactions to determine your alignment. I've been re-reading your posts since this day started, and your recent posts don't sound like "frustrated town." They read like you know that you've been PoE'd and you've been backed into a corner. You're calling upon Zinda and me to stretch our imaginations to "clear" you. Most of it has been conjecture about "ninja kills" and "semi-unblockability" and all kinds of other modgaming you're asking us to do to see you as town. That, and a lot of "Woe is me, the town is going to loose because you guys are going to lynch me and the mod gave Seppel a crazy role."
You keep saying that it's "basic logic" from your point of view that Seppel has to be scum, as if that's not something that you would have to say as either alignment. WHen all four of the living players say 2 of them are for sure town, you absolutely HAVE to attack the remaining one, regardless of your alignment if you want to win.
Your posts read forced, you're grasping at straws trying to find any piece of wording that will "prove" to us that Seppel somehow perpetrated the kill while jailed, when the simplest answer is that you're scum and committed the kill. Constantly shouting "I'm Town, Seppel is scum" isn't going to convince anyone, especially when you're constantly having this defeatist attitude towards this entire game. It's like you already knew you lost when Zinda confirmed Seppel was jailed last night, and you're going through the motions to look exasperated with this game.
Voxx: Citing Che's play as an example of how you're town is a bad call. Che was ridiculously scummy, and his scummy play is why you were brought into claim range to begin with. The only reason that you weren't lynched that day is because you came into the game looking like you were scum hunting, which was a lot more than Che had done up to that point.
If you're trying to say that Che's attacks on Caex make you look town, you're wrong there too. His refusal to actually make any kind of case or do anything than repeatedly state that Caex should die is one of the reasons that I, and others, wanted to lynch him. He could have easily been bussing his scum buddy.
...
A few of you crowd around Generic, questioning him. He gets visibly angrier and more upset the more he is questioned. He launches into an attack at every new body to circle him.
"How about you tell us who you really are and what you do here?" asks Condoms.
None of you seem very convinced by his response.
"You're being really aggressive towards everyone, we should just kill you. Or maybe not kill you because you could be telling the truth. Nah, lets just kill you." muses Vitek.
Sir Karn proposes a solution:"Let's just kill him and see if that sheds any light on this situation."
"Calm down man, we just got here." says Prophylaxis.
"Look how bloodthirsty he is, he's the one you should be worried about! You're all being hypocrites!" exclaims Generic.
"We've got plenty of time to think this through, but I'm pretty sure Generic needs to die today. It's statistically likely that killing him aids us all." Cythare chimes in.
"That's some cold logic, there's more to life than that." defends Generic.
The mob of you grows restless with the constant conjecture and speculation about whom it could be among you that wants to bring about your downfall.
Cythare goes completely blank, looks squarely at Tom, and says deadpan "You're starting to look like a condom."
"Yeah, well you look like a tampon!" retorts Tom.
Suddenly, and quite like an unexpected monthly visit from Aunt Flo, Swishh erupts in a steaming plume of blood. Pinkys_brain steps forth and, without batting an eyelash, lays into Cythare with a flood of questions and accusations.
"Pinky is obviously looking out for our best interests, Cythare must be stopped!" says Generic.
Some of you agree and you surround Cythare demanding answers.
A few of you barely notice Killjoy and Klevenclop as they stand silently in the corners of the room staring at the walls. It's almost like they are on punishment from their parents for doing something wrong.
...
With 12 players alive, it's 7 to lynch!
Cythare (5): Condoms, Generic, LnGrrrR, Pinkys_brain, Prophylaxis Generic (2): Sir Karn, Cythare LnGrrrR (1): Klevenklop Sir Karn (1): Tom
From Iso: "Honestly, with the way he's throwing appeal to emotion, modgaming, and other such laughable defenses at us, even if he is town, he's not doing himself or the town any favors. It's just "guys look at how town I've been, Seppel is totally scum" which is what he's accusing Seppel of doing. He's not highlighting any of the interactions that he claims there are an abundance of that could potentially damn Seppel or clear himself. It's like he thinks yelling at us and insulting us will get us to change our minds - no wonder that never worked when I tried it. It's so...uncompelling. So what exactly is his angle?
For what it's worth, he's starting to defend his posts instead of actually substantiating a case against Seppel - he did something similar in FHF at the end where he basically made a terrible case on Void and said, "I know this is a bad case, but come on, look how pro-town I've been!" (which incidentally didn't matter as he was the SK.)"
From Iso: "Occam's Razor says you're the last scum, Voxx.
Period.
You're asking me to modgame to account for how you could be town.
And yet you're telling me not to modgame.
Double standard = no."
A No lynch would loose the game for the town:
1.) Voxx is scum and since he is an experienced player managed to convince Zindabad that he's town behaviorally. He's lying about being vanilla town. He was unchecked last night, and the mafia kill was preformed. It's the simplest answer, and the best answer.
If he's unblockable and the jail doesn't effect him, he kills me and convinces Zinda to lynch seppel for the win tomorrow.
2.) Seppel is scum and has an unblockable kill that works through the jailer. Zinda is saying he's going to jail either me or Voxx, and Seppel knows I think Voxx is scum: He kills Zinda, and we lynch Voxx tomorrow for the scum win. Or he submits no kill, then when we start the day with no deaths whoever Zinda blocked is considered scum and lynched.
Regardless of which one of the two of you is scum, the town can't win with a no lynch.
Roleblockers can be roleblocked in AI games, according to AI, so that takes the "Seppel is the secret roleblocker" theory off the table.
Increasingly set on Voxx at this point but I will continue to re-read.
Okay, then this is pretty simple then. Seppel was blocked and there was a kill. There's no way Zinda did it, and I know I didn't do it. Game over. Vote: Voxxicus
Iso says: "Hi Voxx. Consider our perspective for a moment. These are the facts:
WoLG and I are Masons. I know he's town, he knows I'm town. We share the same role PM. This would be no different from having me actually in the game, except I just can't post. We are confirming each other to you guys - a typical confirmed Mason pair would not be going under any scrutiny at this point in the game with 2 dead scum and a Neutral in a Mini, so I have no idea why it's an issue that you would take this at face value.
Seppel was Jailed last Night and already used his claimed Untargetable shot. This is correlated by zindabad, who is confirmed town a la Zionite, and whose Night action last Night is accounted for via Seppel. Therefore, Seppel and zindabad could not have performed the kill last Night because zindabad Jailed Seppel and would have also blocked him.
That leaves you, Voxx, the ONLY claimed vanilla in this game. WoLG and I know we didn't perform an action last Night, zindabad has confirmed that Roleblockers can be Roleblocked, and AI has confirmed to WoLG and myself in our Mason chat that any player Redirected would be informed of the Redirection dependent on their role - example being that DRey would have received a PM that said, "You failed to kill Seppel last Night," or something to that effect.
That means Seppel's 1-Shot Untargetable is definitely expended - not only for that reason but because zindabad obviously targeted him last Night.
Unless you are proposing that the mafia team has TWO Untargetable variants (can't be targeted with kills when killing, 1-Shot Untargetable/Redirector, + claimed Doc shot), which is patently ridiculous, well...you've backed yourself into a corner.
There's no way anybody but Voxx is the last scum."
My reads were completely backwards almost all game. If it wasn't for Iso regularly keeping me on the straight and narrow, I would have been either mislynched D1 or D2. Iso called all of the scum team except for Seppel. The only reason I didn't pursue Seppel as hard was because Iso kept telling me he was town. And since Iso was right about Caex, Stardust, and Wessel, I couldn't NOT follow his logic! lol
For the entirety of D1 I pretty much had town reads on Caex/Stardust/Wessel. >>' Bad game for me all around.
Xyre: I'm sorry. I got so caught up in how since Caex was the first to claim a cop that we shouldn't have been killing him. I was getting a lot of town tells from you, but I just kept seeing your push on Caex to be scummy. It never crossed my mind that you were so hard on killing him because you were also a power role. I couldn't put myself in your mindset.
DRey: Sorry about some of the harsh things I said in the mason chat. It was a rough couple weeks for me IRL. I was absolutely convinced you were the mafia toughguy due to the rest of the town power and your play. Then again, I've never played with you before, but everyone was telling me you always play like this. One of the times meta actually mattered.
Wessel: Thank you. Great play this game, phenomenal save of me. In my opinion, you're pretty good at looking town even if you're alignment isn't.
Voxx: Great game. We pretty much had the game won as of post 1160, but then Zinda waffled and that gave me too much time to over think things and wifom the crap out of myself.
Any who: Go town.
One of the reasons I have been trying to get zinda to respond to the game is because I knew I wasn't goi.g to be online today. I'm glad thw soitwe decided to work ony phone whil I'm in this building.
Game over, good game everyone.
How do you feel about my response to your questions?
How do you feel about how much Voxx is mod gaming and appeals to emotion?
Can you at least say something besides "It's a tough decision and we have time."
Seppel, Voxx, Iso, and I have all pretty much exhausted every line of inquiry and questions that we can without your participation in this game. There's nothing else I can think of that we can say, and it's not fair to Asian, any spectators, or the dead players of the game to sit around and wait for days without you posting something that will move the game along.
Voxx started off today trying to do exactly that: His first three posts today were him saying that I'm scum and faking the mason claim. I shut that down pretty quickly by offering proof to both you and Seppel. He realized that there's no way he could push a "Scum with out of game mason" lynch, especially after both you and Seppel were already pretty convinced I was town. (At least after Wessel flipped Gollum, anyway. You two were doubters for a day or so there.)
I'm assuming he didn't kill you for two reasons.
1.) He already had you 100% convinced that he was behaviorally town, even with his shady vanilla claim and Che's awful behavior.
2.) Going into an endgame situation like this, there's no way he could have left DYH (a claimed governor) alive.
As for why he volunteered to take on that gambit, I posit two reasons:
1.) He's an experienced player and taking on that gambit while leaving you alive would give him an ally in the end game.
2.) He's cocky.
You keep saying that it's "basic logic" from your point of view that Seppel has to be scum, as if that's not something that you would have to say as either alignment. WHen all four of the living players say 2 of them are for sure town, you absolutely HAVE to attack the remaining one, regardless of your alignment if you want to win.
Your posts read forced, you're grasping at straws trying to find any piece of wording that will "prove" to us that Seppel somehow perpetrated the kill while jailed, when the simplest answer is that you're scum and committed the kill. Constantly shouting "I'm Town, Seppel is scum" isn't going to convince anyone, especially when you're constantly having this defeatist attitude towards this entire game. It's like you already knew you lost when Zinda confirmed Seppel was jailed last night, and you're going through the motions to look exasperated with this game.
If you're trying to say that Che's attacks on Caex make you look town, you're wrong there too. His refusal to actually make any kind of case or do anything than repeatedly state that Caex should die is one of the reasons that I, and others, wanted to lynch him. He could have easily been bussing his scum buddy.
A few of you crowd around Generic, questioning him. He gets visibly angrier and more upset the more he is questioned. He launches into an attack at every new body to circle him.
"How about you tell us who you really are and what you do here?" asks Condoms.
None of you seem very convinced by his response.
"You're being really aggressive towards everyone, we should just kill you. Or maybe not kill you because you could be telling the truth. Nah, lets just kill you." muses Vitek.
Sir Karn proposes a solution:"Let's just kill him and see if that sheds any light on this situation."
"Calm down man, we just got here." says Prophylaxis.
"Look how bloodthirsty he is, he's the one you should be worried about! You're all being hypocrites!" exclaims Generic.
"We've got plenty of time to think this through, but I'm pretty sure Generic needs to die today. It's statistically likely that killing him aids us all." Cythare chimes in.
"That's some cold logic, there's more to life than that." defends Generic.
The mob of you grows restless with the constant conjecture and speculation about whom it could be among you that wants to bring about your downfall.
Cythare goes completely blank, looks squarely at Tom, and says deadpan "You're starting to look like a condom."
"Yeah, well you look like a tampon!" retorts Tom.
Suddenly, and quite like an unexpected monthly visit from Aunt Flo, Swishh erupts in a steaming plume of blood. Pinkys_brain steps forth and, without batting an eyelash, lays into Cythare with a flood of questions and accusations.
"Pinky is obviously looking out for our best interests, Cythare must be stopped!" says Generic.
Some of you agree and you surround Cythare demanding answers.
A few of you barely notice Killjoy and Klevenclop as they stand silently in the corners of the room staring at the walls. It's almost like they are on punishment from their parents for doing something wrong.
...
With 12 players alive, it's 7 to lynch!
Cythare (5): Condoms, Generic, LnGrrrR, Pinkys_brain, Prophylaxis
Generic (2): Sir Karn, Cythare
LnGrrrR (1): Klevenklop
Sir Karn (1): Tom
Not currently voting (3): Killjoy, Vitek, Teh JeY
For what it's worth, he's starting to defend his posts instead of actually substantiating a case against Seppel - he did something similar in FHF at the end where he basically made a terrible case on Void and said, "I know this is a bad case, but come on, look how pro-town I've been!" (which incidentally didn't matter as he was the SK.)"
Period.
You're asking me to modgame to account for how you could be town.
And yet you're telling me not to modgame.
Double standard = no."
A No lynch would loose the game for the town:
1.) Voxx is scum and since he is an experienced player managed to convince Zindabad that he's town behaviorally. He's lying about being vanilla town. He was unchecked last night, and the mafia kill was preformed. It's the simplest answer, and the best answer.
If he's unblockable and the jail doesn't effect him, he kills me and convinces Zinda to lynch seppel for the win tomorrow.
2.) Seppel is scum and has an unblockable kill that works through the jailer. Zinda is saying he's going to jail either me or Voxx, and Seppel knows I think Voxx is scum: He kills Zinda, and we lynch Voxx tomorrow for the scum win. Or he submits no kill, then when we start the day with no deaths whoever Zinda blocked is considered scum and lynched.
Regardless of which one of the two of you is scum, the town can't win with a no lynch.
Okay, then this is pretty simple then. Seppel was blocked and there was a kill. There's no way Zinda did it, and I know I didn't do it. Game over.
Vote: Voxxicus
Iso says: "Hi Voxx. Consider our perspective for a moment. These are the facts:
WoLG and I are Masons. I know he's town, he knows I'm town. We share the same role PM. This would be no different from having me actually in the game, except I just can't post. We are confirming each other to you guys - a typical confirmed Mason pair would not be going under any scrutiny at this point in the game with 2 dead scum and a Neutral in a Mini, so I have no idea why it's an issue that you would take this at face value.
Seppel was Jailed last Night and already used his claimed Untargetable shot. This is correlated by zindabad, who is confirmed town a la Zionite, and whose Night action last Night is accounted for via Seppel. Therefore, Seppel and zindabad could not have performed the kill last Night because zindabad Jailed Seppel and would have also blocked him.
That leaves you, Voxx, the ONLY claimed vanilla in this game. WoLG and I know we didn't perform an action last Night, zindabad has confirmed that Roleblockers can be Roleblocked, and AI has confirmed to WoLG and myself in our Mason chat that any player Redirected would be informed of the Redirection dependent on their role - example being that DRey would have received a PM that said, "You failed to kill Seppel last Night," or something to that effect.
That means Seppel's 1-Shot Untargetable is definitely expended - not only for that reason but because zindabad obviously targeted him last Night.
Unless you are proposing that the mafia team has TWO Untargetable variants (can't be targeted with kills when killing, 1-Shot Untargetable/Redirector, + claimed Doc shot), which is patently ridiculous, well...you've backed yourself into a corner.
There's no way anybody but Voxx is the last scum."