MTG Salvation

LotU is what gave anyone the idea to play illusions in the first place, no ifs ands or buts about it. If you think otherwise you are just plain wrong. I have gone through pretty much all the builds, even if I wasn't doing them all in real time like the pros.

Some builds work better than others, but what has happened as illusions has tried to become competitive is people have slowly started taking out the very core that gave this deck its identity.

Now we have people wanting to side in PL for our LotU and I can see the pro's and con's of doing so. That 2 life you have to pay every time you want it out early on turn 2 has potential to kill things but also to potentially cost you games. So if you have the right cards, sure PL offers better tempo (if he lives). If you play your combo of PI and LotU and resolve it, well we all know how good that is. Neither one is "better" than the other, they both offer different paths to potential victory. (My play testing tonight was inconclusive at best so I give it a draw) will try more, but that is 2 days of inconclusive testing.

Were down to 4 bears because the bear is just too good to keep out of the deck. The dragons are long gone, the Images are talked about getting reduced (absolutely wrong move) and the LotU is now on the chopping block.

I appreciate blue has 3 wicked cards (bear, delver, snappy) and I get trading life for phyrexian removal, however, when people start removing PI and talk about axing LotU, I really don't see an illusion toolkit in the deck anymore, much less the illusions identity we all once played.

Call the deck D.I.P. Delving into Phyrexia, got a snappy little ring to it, because it is no longer running enough illusions to justify having its old name. For those of you who don't care what it's called, fine, your entitled to that opinion and I get it, what it's called is not what is going to make it more competitive. However, it has clearly caused some people to experience an identity crisis and that too is a justified opinion.

As for the deck itself, the bottom line is making it the best deck in standard, so we go marching along with whatever people think are interesting cards to play test. I just hope we can come up with some of our own ideas, instead of letting Mr. Anderson dictate what cards may or may not be viable for this deck. He doesn't impress me, seems to write stuff in the hopes of getting it right, and if you write enough stuff, some of it will stick. That said, he is (for better or worse) the face of (name our deck here) and ....... well, let's just think for ourselves

There is no doubt the LotU is a target, as well he should be. He gives all our creatures protection from everyone (red especially). But you need to overextend or know for sure what your opponent has. When we were running Gitaxian Probe it made sense for sure, you knew if you needed to keep leak and/or if you could extend.

Gut shot won't kill LotU, but will kill PL. I like first strike and I see times when it might be better, but I also know that hexproof can go along way. We talk about LotU being fragile, well PL is even more fragile, especially to burn.

Basically, if you are running u/w then I see Geist, PL, and the other subjects. However, if your running mono blue, the LotU/Image combo is a much better choice.

I am torn, I love illusions because they were different than other tribes and the mono blue variant was my favorite, but I see how Innistrad has changed the game.

I guess my only other argument against PL is, yes he can come out turn 2, but even playing white, your going to sac 2 life to get it out to take advantage. Well, between PL, dismember, gut shot, maybe probe, and/or mental misstep and well...that is a lot of phyrexian life to sacrifice, why not just GIVE your opponent the game.

I know some of those are of our color scheme, but if your racing to get PL out, its going to cost you and this deck already lives on a very low life curve.

Not saying its impossible, but its certainly something to keep in the back of our minds

I guess Illusions is destined to be a casual deck and Delver Tempo is competitive. I don't mind making changes for FNM, but I don't like calling my deck illusions, when clearly it's not that anymore.

Oh, I think you misinterpret what I meant. I won't not test it, in fact I already did tonight, and it did alright, not enough games to see a difference yet. I like to test all different types of cards too, in fact I would encourage all to do so, much like I suspect you would.

My biggest problem with PL isn't that he dies to gut shot which in my meta is rampant, but that it costs 2 life if your playing mono blue. I get it for a u/w build because it doesn't cost life. It's a trade off of first strike vs Hexproof. Since I play with more than the typical build, to me, hexproof is better than first strike

I don't like the new direction Illusions is heading. To be honest, I am not a huge fan of Mr. Anderson either, but I digress. I will admit that he pushes the envelope in interesting directions, but I have watched him shred illusions down to a token toolkit and I don't like it.

I think there needs to be a different forum for the new direction, after all, if it's competitive then it deserves it's own place, fair is fair.
However, we may lose our forum in the meantime if everyone jumps ship for the new build, so we must prepare for that.

As well, Todd or anyone for that matter certainly has his/her right to take any build in any direction, and as players were not always going to agree.

The name of the deck, while some say isn't important, to me is important. I am new to Magic, about 3 months in, the first deck I built was a GA variant of illusions with Automotons and such, back when the deck was pretty new. So it has a soft spot for me, it has served me well, and I have moved with some of the changes. Lately however, I feel as though we are no longer illusions, but rather an increasingly smaller and smaller illusion toolkit and I admit that bothers me.

Quote from cnmoore27

This is an illusions thread. I'm kind of offended that Todd Anderson's list is still being mentioned in it. If he wants to run delvers and geists and all this and not run actual illusion creatures, then how can it even be considered illusions? Illusions has to have a lord, and like it or not, he must be in the MB or it's pointless. Legionaire? I hope Dark Ascention comes out with something to make all this talk go back to real illusions, because this is messed up. This needs to have its own seperate threat for those who want to play delver decks rather than delver decks without illusions. 4 bears is not an illusion deck...and this is the illusion thread. Zelderex said it best...

You know what, I could not agree more. I know illusions struggled to make tier 1 until Delver came along, but what I am seeing is now a metamorphosis from illusions to just another blue deck.

We have Delver, Drake, Legionnaire now, were talking about cutting our Lord, we have already removed the Dragons and people are cutting Images. We trade life for phyrexian removal.... sigh

I get the argument that in order to be competitive that we need to respond to change in meta, but lets be perfectly frank now with the direction were heading.... THIS IS NOT ILLUSIONS as we know it!

If we are going to head in this direction, it looks like swords are on the table, especially since there are basically no more (insert curse word here) illusions in the deck. In fact, its not just swords, but now a plethora of artifacts likely opens up to this deck

I suppose the positive thing to come out of this is that it opens the door to a lot of testing

Ah I miss the good ol days of a few months back before Delver, when illusions were just that, illusions. I think PL is an interesting idea, he is tempo no doubt about it, but dies really easily, and there is a lot of gut shot in my meta.

I agree that the name of the deck is irrelevant, however, it is starting to look as if illusions is not really illusions anymore. Were already really playing just an illusion toolkit and it seems as if this just keeps getting smaller and smaller.

Skinshifter seems like a great card in a casual meta, not top tier stuff. That said, if you are playing midrange decks you might find a way to sneak him in there without drawing too much attention.

As others have said, he doesn't really work in tempo decks unless you are willing to tap out. You may get lucky and they have nothing, but let's be honest, there is too much removal around at his greatest strengths to be reliable.

In many ways, I consider him a cardboard tiger. He is versatile, likely his greatest attribute, holds a sword very well, but dies to so many different spells.

Quote from WOXO

From far, far away here, all the way in The People's Republic of California.

But your talking of Illusions seemed interesting. What is it like playing them? I've thought they're cool, but didn't like the idea of any targeted spell in the opponent's hand being a removal spell. They're like werewolves, IMHO, in that they give your opponent control of your creatures. But, if you can work around that, they sure do seem awesome!

Hi,

Thanks for the response.. Actually, playing illusions is supposed to be difficult, but I don't really think it's that hard. Perhaps building the deck requires a bit more effort than say...a green ramp deck...but I digress.

As for target spell, that is a bit misleading. Most spells that would target your illusions (doom blade, go for the throat, lightning bolt etc) would kill almost any creature being targeted (3 toughness or less for lightning bolt). So don't think of it as being killed because the spell triggers the "weakness" of illusions, because it would almost certainly have died anyways.

A Diregraf Ghoul will still die to lightning bolt and it isn't an illusion. The ghoul will still die even if Cemetery Reaper gives it +1/+1. However, the Lord of the Unreal will do the same thing and give it hexproof, meaning all target spells are useless on your illusions. Of course one is still susceptible to DOJ or other sweepers, but that is a different ball of wax and not one that only affects illusions.

The key to illusions is to protect your lord with lots of counters and IMO, play a fast tempo aggressive game. The issue with Illusions is if you build your deck poorly, your in real trouble, if you make mistakes, it is often game over. I have learned the hard way (learning simply to play magic) on what I hear is a tough deck to master.

Now though, I feel like with a good draw (like everyone else) I can beat most if not all decks (your speaking to my PR guy here). Of course, I lose just like everyone does at this game, but I win way more than I lose. You simply have to know how to play the deck and you need to know what you are up against, and really, those two core ideas can be applied to most competitive decks, or even casual multi player ones.

Peoples Republic of California haha, good for a laugh, I have relatives down there in many parts along the west coast.... Cali is good fun

Hello all,

PickledDictator here, just saying a big hello to everyone who plays. I am new to the game, been playing for just over a couple of months. I play illusions, about 5 different versions of it, from standard to vintage, while splashing colors in between.

Don't know if learning illusions was the smartest way to learn magic, as many say its a hard deck to build and play, but I love blue and well, that is the way it is.

I play other decks as well, having just built a green mashing deck, a zombie deck, Caucasian humans and White Knights in Shinning Armor.

Ok, enough about me, how is everyone, and is anyone on here from Canada, specifically Vancouver?

Always up for strategy talk or whatever, so feel free to PM or respond here if you want to chat about things...:cool2:


cheers!

Oh, and how do I edit my signature so that I can show the color of decks I am playing....for the life of me, I can't figure it out