I use the clock aggressively. It irritates me to no end when I play some guy who is doing 2-3 games at once, and he takes 2 minutes each turn while I am sitting there just waiting on him. And then, when they finally get down to 5 minutes or so, they play for real in my game. It's even worse when they are winning.
I've won several games by just derping around waiting for them to go back to one of their other games to run their clock to 0 even though they are about to win. IMO they shouldn't be allowed to win when my clock has 24 minutes and theirs has 1 just because they didn't have the courtesy to give me their full attention.
If you leave me in the position where I can afford to waste huge amounts of time just trying to run your clock out, then you set yourself up for that disadvantage.
Naya midrange with resto angel / huntmaster / thragtusk (not quite rogue now, it's been seeing more play)
That's about it. Nothing else was very successful. All my builds were unique brews not based on any other list; that being said, many of the more successful brews have since been refined or created by other players and piloted to success.
Lotleth Troll isn't supposed to be a super beast. Remember that, rare or not, he's a two-drop. A regenerating 2/1 for two mana is already great. The option to make him stronger is good too. That's why he is a good card; he won't win the game by himself but you aren't going to make a better turn 2 play.
I don't get why you would force yourself to play with worse cards in a splash-happy format? There is absolutely no reason to play just one color, and there are already such a limited amount of playables as it is...
@awjustaguy
I see the merit to most of your inclusions, but not the Necropolis Regent. Especially not playing all four. Carnival Hellsteed seems better to me in almost every case, especially against Control where the haste shines even more.
I hate to be harsh, but I simply think your deck is lacking in resilient threats against Control and severely needs Rakdos's Return main. Return and Connections is Jund's way of breaking parity against control game 1 (if you're not beating their face in), which you need to do before you get run over by Armada Wurms and Revelations. I'm not going to comment on the sideboard because I think that is personal preference.
So is your/mine entire deck, but the reason (I assume) we both post in this forum is to discuss card-choices and end up with a better deck. Since we both play in the same meta (MTGO), I really can't see a reason to share 60 cards, but not 75.
Sorry if I come across as stern, but I'm just not liking your approach to the deck. Rakdos's Return, Dread Mangler and Lotleth Troll are all big parts of why our Control matchup is so good, and they have a lot of merit against more aggressive decks. While your deck may be a little better suited to deal with a Desecration Demon from Golgari, you're simply sacrificing too much for too little.
First, I did have Rakdos's Return in my list; why did you think I didn't? As far as Carnival Hellsteed goes, I don't want my finisher to be on the ground. Why? As you said already, Bant control is an easy matchup- I need tech against Selesnya and Golgari, and flying does that for me. I don't post my sideboard because it is always changing, although I will say the important cards are 4x Slaughter Games, more Underworld Connections, more treasured find, and more removal such as ultimate price.
Hey guys, I thought I'd add my two cents to the discussion, too.
I run my own more traditional controllish version of Jund. I've been going at least 3-1 in most of the recent dailies, and I've never anyone play my deck or any deck similar to mine so I'm kind of proud of it.
Here's what I've got and I'll explain what I did along the way.
I'm not going to comment on the sideboard because I think that is personal preference.
I'll go ahead and comment on the controversial picks.
I'm gonna have to disagree with Goliat up above with the Deadbridge Goliath. First, getting double forest by turn four isn't always the easiest; almost all of our spells have a swamp cost so the demon is much better priced. Secondly, I just found the goliath lacking power. I originally ran 4 of them, but I cut them all because I was never happy to see them in a game. I run so few creatures that I never use the scavenge, so they are basically a vanilla 5/5 for 4. With the demon, I pack so much removal that his weakness is practically non-existent.
Necropolis Regent is a card that has been mostly ignored by everyone that I added on a whim. Yes, she is a win-more card, but honestly we have so few choices of finishers in RTR that she is the best in our colors. She trades with any creature in emergency circumstances, and when she starts swinging the game ends fast, which is what we want. I tried 2 at first, but she is not legendary and I liked her enough to boost it up to 4 (cutting the dreadbridge goliaths entirely)
Golgari Charm is the winningest card against bant control. Counters supreme verdict if you need a finisher to stick late game, or it deals with those pesky Detention sphere's. I actually ENJOY when my stuff gets sphere'd, because I bring it back at the end of their turn and they have no way to deal with it during my turn. However I find it lacking other matches and am probably moving it to the sideboard.
Treasured Find is more optimally used with Grisly Salvage but I don't think Grisly Salvage is worth it in a spell-heavy deck. However, I still like this card enough to include 4 in my 75. I basically get {B}{R} - Tutor your graveyard for an answer and put it into your hand. Getting back Vraskas, removal, etc, is all very handy, but I don't want too many in my opening hand.
As far as thoughts on the overall deck goes, I'm happy with it. I have a chance against everything, I never feel like I'm outmatched. I really wish we had better ramp and fixing, though. I'm toying around with Grisly Salvage / Mana Bloom / Gatecreeper Vine right now, but I really wish we had farseek.
I don't get it. I always thought I was a decent player. I am the best out of all my friends. But I just can't ever win online.
I don't understand what I do wrong. I spent 130 tix on constructed fighting and lost it all. The whole thing. Do you know how many games that is? I don't think that's just luck - it has to be my skill. But I don't know how to improve! I can't seem to ever win.
I try to play a control deck - I don't have enough answers to their creatures.
I try to play an aggro deck - I get swept up into topdeck mode with no threats on the field by turn 4.
I try to play a midrange deck - I can't do anything fast enough to win.
I don't understand what I am doing wrong.
Take this last game I just played for example...
I'm playing g/w humans. I keep a hand with champion of the parish x2, avacyn's pilgrim x1, 2x mayor of avabruck, and 1x temple garden, 1x sunfire petal. The god hand, right? I've got all the drops I need and enough lands to play them. I'm against a u/w control deck (the one with tamiyo and supreme verdict). This is supposed to be my best matchup, right? Against control?
So I play champion, pass. He plays hallowed fountain, pass. I draw forest. I play champion, avacyn, attack with champion for 3, pass. He plays hinterland, pass. Draw plains, I play two mayor of avabruck. Champion 1 is at 7, champion 2 is at 6, he is at 17 life. I swing with both champions, avacyn pilgrim for 16. He azorius charms first champion, takes 7, he is at 8. My hand has a plains, empty otherwise. Pass. He plays island, pass. My turn; I play champion, first champion is at 7, avacyn at 3, two avabruck at 4. I swing for 14, he azorius charms 2nd champion, takes 7, is at 1 life, and then supreme verdicts. Rest of the game I play maybe one or two creatures while he gets tamiyo out and I lose.
Bam. I really don't get hands that good that often, yet I still lost. Did I make a misplay? Is my deck just bad? I don't understand what I do wrong. Why does his 3 cards counter my 7 cards? That doesn't seem fair to me. That gives him a much higher chance to win, if he only needs 40% of his hand to be good, whereas I need 100% of my hand to be good.
I really try, queues, dailies, everything, but I feel like I am always walking in with a 15% chance to win. Yet no matter what deck I switch to, that never goes up.
I don't really know what I'm asking for here... I just want to get better.
Bouncing Jace/Detention Sphere/ramp (artifacts) is all very relevant. As a tempo deck, you're not going to need the 2 life, so cyclonic rift is strictly better. The overload is just a bonus if you happen to go that long or get mana flooded. I'd have 4x Cyclonic Rift, 4x Azorius Charm, and Dramatic Rescue over Blustersquall / or in the sideboard against Selesnya
As far as Faerie Imposter, that's just hurting yourself way too much. If you had a bunch of ETB effects then it might be better, but detain is too weak of a mechanic to justify including this card.
Judge's familiar does nothing to supreme verdict, it can't be countered.
I was decktesting with a similar idea earlier in the week and I have a few pointers.
The civic saber is really very good, especially in this environment, but ground creatures are not, because you will never be able to match Selesnya. Don't bring dryad. 4x Judge's familiar, 4x skyknight, and 4x vassal soul is the aggro base. If you're playing a tempo deck then there's no reason why you shouldn't have 4x Cyclonic Rift, as that card is the very definition of tempo.
A potential variant involves Fencing Ace with 4x Ethereal Armor, 4x Arrest, 4x Detention Sphere.
I wouldn't be so quick to write out Worldspine Wurm.
In my 1st sealed release event, I had 3 axebane guardians, two doorkeepers, 2 gatecreepers, a hoverbarrier, and worldspine wurm.
I got him out every single game, went 4-0 no problem. In other formats, he's unplayable, but there is really a lot of easy ramp in this set as long as you can access an axebane or two, and that card is at common so it's not hard.
Here is brew I've been piloting to some success. It's not a very solid deck but it can get some nuts plays and, more importantly, it totally destroys Selesnya decks, which have become 90% of the meta.
The idea is simple: Resolve some hefty threats on turn 1-3 by giving yourself card disadvantage, then protect them for a few turns until you can win. You win by defeating your opponent while they're holding on to a bunch of cards. Sure, they have lots of card advantage, but if they can't use it...
I'll give a sample decklist and then explain how to play it.
How to play:
The best start is Nivmagus Elemental turn 1, and eating some spells turn 2 and 3 to turn him into a 5/6 or greater. My policy is if you aren't going to need the spell to save the game, then eat it. Once he is 3/4 or 5/6, just keep countering and bouncing until you can finish the game.
Otherwise, you're going to want to get a Civic Saber or two out and attach them to your Judge's Familiar / Rackdos Cackler and keep their field clear while you swing in for 4-6 a turn.
Match-ups:
Selesnya is by far the easiest with this deck. They don't spend a whole lot of time messing with your creatures, so you can easily make your guys huge and just chunk away while they struggle to stay afloat. The only card to watch out for is Selesnya Charm; just make sure you have a counter for it or a Mizzium Skin. If you don't, keep your guys at 4/x.
U/W Control is the hardest match-up. You just can't fight that Supreme Verdict. You have no way to get around it. This ruins your tempo. You can still win occasionally if you hold some creatures back or you have a Hypersonic Dragon with Civic Sabers to top the curve after the wrath.
Golgari can be tough, but it's very winnable. You NEED to have a mizzium skin, as that's the only way to counter abrupt decay.
Playing a sealed release event right now, and I opened this pool. I saw really two great decks in this, but I wasn't sure if I chose the right one. Which would you take?
The sideboard:
The chosen deck:
As you can see, I had a lot of bomby izzet cards, and they seemed to connect very well together, so I went for a sort of tempo-ish aggressive blue/red with a splash of black.
However, I had a LOT of synergy with the populate mechanic, too. Selesnya was looking really good, and I could easily splash azorius for a few more good cards.
I've won several games by just derping around waiting for them to go back to one of their other games to run their clock to 0 even though they are about to win. IMO they shouldn't be allowed to win when my clock has 24 minutes and theirs has 1 just because they didn't have the courtesy to give me their full attention.
If you leave me in the position where I can afford to waste huge amounts of time just trying to run your clock out, then you set yourself up for that disadvantage.
Here are the decks I've piloted to some success (3-1 finishes or higher in MTGO dailies).
Mono-black midrange/aggro with gravecrawler/geralfs/desecration/liliana of the veil.
Junk midrange (not token-based) with desecration / strangleroot / liliana / lingering souls / rancor
UW humans aggro with geist of st traft
Naya midrange with resto angel / huntmaster / thragtusk (not quite rogue now, it's been seeing more play)
That's about it. Nothing else was very successful. All my builds were unique brews not based on any other list; that being said, many of the more successful brews have since been refined or created by other players and piloted to success.
Maybe it's because I'm using 64-bit Windows 7.
First, I did have Rakdos's Return in my list; why did you think I didn't? As far as Carnival Hellsteed goes, I don't want my finisher to be on the ground. Why? As you said already, Bant control is an easy matchup- I need tech against Selesnya and Golgari, and flying does that for me. I don't post my sideboard because it is always changing, although I will say the important cards are 4x Slaughter Games, more Underworld Connections, more treasured find, and more removal such as ultimate price.
I run my own more traditional controllish version of Jund. I've been going at least 3-1 in most of the recent dailies, and I've never anyone play my deck or any deck similar to mine so I'm kind of proud of it.
Here's what I've got and I'll explain what I did along the way.
4 overgrown tomb
4 blood crypt
3 rakdos guildgate
3 golgari guildgate
4 forest
4 mountain
3 swamp
4 Desecration Demon
4 Necropolis Regent
Spells (20):
4 Auger Spree
4 Dreadbore
2 Mizzium Mortars
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Treasured Find
2 Rakdos's Return
2 Golgari Charm
3 Vraska the Unseen
2 Underworld Connections
2 Rakdos Keyrune
I'm not going to comment on the sideboard because I think that is personal preference.
I'll go ahead and comment on the controversial picks.
I'm gonna have to disagree with Goliat up above with the Deadbridge Goliath. First, getting double forest by turn four isn't always the easiest; almost all of our spells have a swamp cost so the demon is much better priced. Secondly, I just found the goliath lacking power. I originally ran 4 of them, but I cut them all because I was never happy to see them in a game. I run so few creatures that I never use the scavenge, so they are basically a vanilla 5/5 for 4. With the demon, I pack so much removal that his weakness is practically non-existent.
Necropolis Regent is a card that has been mostly ignored by everyone that I added on a whim. Yes, she is a win-more card, but honestly we have so few choices of finishers in RTR that she is the best in our colors. She trades with any creature in emergency circumstances, and when she starts swinging the game ends fast, which is what we want. I tried 2 at first, but she is not legendary and I liked her enough to boost it up to 4 (cutting the dreadbridge goliaths entirely)
Golgari Charm is the winningest card against bant control. Counters supreme verdict if you need a finisher to stick late game, or it deals with those pesky Detention sphere's. I actually ENJOY when my stuff gets sphere'd, because I bring it back at the end of their turn and they have no way to deal with it during my turn. However I find it lacking other matches and am probably moving it to the sideboard.
Treasured Find is more optimally used with Grisly Salvage but I don't think Grisly Salvage is worth it in a spell-heavy deck. However, I still like this card enough to include 4 in my 75. I basically get {B}{R} - Tutor your graveyard for an answer and put it into your hand. Getting back Vraskas, removal, etc, is all very handy, but I don't want too many in my opening hand.
As far as thoughts on the overall deck goes, I'm happy with it. I have a chance against everything, I never feel like I'm outmatched. I really wish we had better ramp and fixing, though. I'm toying around with Grisly Salvage / Mana Bloom / Gatecreeper Vine right now, but I really wish we had farseek.
I don't understand what I do wrong. I spent 130 tix on constructed fighting and lost it all. The whole thing. Do you know how many games that is? I don't think that's just luck - it has to be my skill. But I don't know how to improve! I can't seem to ever win.
I try to play a control deck - I don't have enough answers to their creatures.
I try to play an aggro deck - I get swept up into topdeck mode with no threats on the field by turn 4.
I try to play a midrange deck - I can't do anything fast enough to win.
I don't understand what I am doing wrong.
Take this last game I just played for example...
I'm playing g/w humans. I keep a hand with champion of the parish x2, avacyn's pilgrim x1, 2x mayor of avabruck, and 1x temple garden, 1x sunfire petal. The god hand, right? I've got all the drops I need and enough lands to play them. I'm against a u/w control deck (the one with tamiyo and supreme verdict). This is supposed to be my best matchup, right? Against control?
So I play champion, pass. He plays hallowed fountain, pass. I draw forest. I play champion, avacyn, attack with champion for 3, pass. He plays hinterland, pass. Draw plains, I play two mayor of avabruck. Champion 1 is at 7, champion 2 is at 6, he is at 17 life. I swing with both champions, avacyn pilgrim for 16. He azorius charms first champion, takes 7, he is at 8. My hand has a plains, empty otherwise. Pass. He plays island, pass. My turn; I play champion, first champion is at 7, avacyn at 3, two avabruck at 4. I swing for 14, he azorius charms 2nd champion, takes 7, is at 1 life, and then supreme verdicts. Rest of the game I play maybe one or two creatures while he gets tamiyo out and I lose.
Bam. I really don't get hands that good that often, yet I still lost. Did I make a misplay? Is my deck just bad? I don't understand what I do wrong. Why does his 3 cards counter my 7 cards? That doesn't seem fair to me. That gives him a much higher chance to win, if he only needs 40% of his hand to be good, whereas I need 100% of my hand to be good.
I really try, queues, dailies, everything, but I feel like I am always walking in with a 15% chance to win. Yet no matter what deck I switch to, that never goes up.
I don't really know what I'm asking for here... I just want to get better.
As far as Faerie Imposter, that's just hurting yourself way too much. If you had a bunch of ETB effects then it might be better, but detain is too weak of a mechanic to justify including this card.
I was decktesting with a similar idea earlier in the week and I have a few pointers.
The civic saber is really very good, especially in this environment, but ground creatures are not, because you will never be able to match Selesnya. Don't bring dryad. 4x Judge's familiar, 4x skyknight, and 4x vassal soul is the aggro base. If you're playing a tempo deck then there's no reason why you shouldn't have 4x Cyclonic Rift, as that card is the very definition of tempo.
A potential variant involves Fencing Ace with 4x Ethereal Armor, 4x Arrest, 4x Detention Sphere.
In my 1st sealed release event, I had 3 axebane guardians, two doorkeepers, 2 gatecreepers, a hoverbarrier, and worldspine wurm.
I got him out every single game, went 4-0 no problem. In other formats, he's unplayable, but there is really a lot of easy ramp in this set as long as you can access an axebane or two, and that card is at common so it's not hard.
The idea is simple: Resolve some hefty threats on turn 1-3 by giving yourself card disadvantage, then protect them for a few turns until you can win. You win by defeating your opponent while they're holding on to a bunch of cards. Sure, they have lots of card advantage, but if they can't use it...
I'll give a sample decklist and then explain how to play it.
9 Island
9 Mountain
4 Steam Vents
Creatures (12):
4 Nivmagus Elemental
4 Rakdos Cackler
2 Judge's Familiar
2 Hypersonic Dragon
4 Izzet Charm
4 Mizzium Skin
4 Cyclonic Rift
3 Mizzium Mortars
3 Syncopate
2 Counterflux
3 Teleportal
3 Civic Saber
How to play:
The best start is Nivmagus Elemental turn 1, and eating some spells turn 2 and 3 to turn him into a 5/6 or greater. My policy is if you aren't going to need the spell to save the game, then eat it. Once he is 3/4 or 5/6, just keep countering and bouncing until you can finish the game.
Otherwise, you're going to want to get a Civic Saber or two out and attach them to your Judge's Familiar / Rackdos Cackler and keep their field clear while you swing in for 4-6 a turn.
Match-ups:
Selesnya is by far the easiest with this deck. They don't spend a whole lot of time messing with your creatures, so you can easily make your guys huge and just chunk away while they struggle to stay afloat. The only card to watch out for is Selesnya Charm; just make sure you have a counter for it or a Mizzium Skin. If you don't, keep your guys at 4/x.
U/W Control is the hardest match-up. You just can't fight that Supreme Verdict. You have no way to get around it. This ruins your tempo. You can still win occasionally if you hold some creatures back or you have a Hypersonic Dragon with Civic Sabers to top the curve after the wrath.
Golgari can be tough, but it's very winnable. You NEED to have a mizzium skin, as that's the only way to counter abrupt decay.
The sideboard:
The chosen deck:
As you can see, I had a lot of bomby izzet cards, and they seemed to connect very well together, so I went for a sort of tempo-ish aggressive blue/red with a splash of black.
However, I had a LOT of synergy with the populate mechanic, too. Selesnya was looking really good, and I could easily splash azorius for a few more good cards.
What would you do?
No results yet, games haven't started.