Yes, I understand that one. Still figuring the math out if I happen to just cast the cackling while more than one precursor is in play.... Out of school 16 years and this one of the best math problems I've come up with since...
OK, I see the difference in how you did it from how I was thinking.
I was thinking that all nine of the Precursor Golems' 2nd ability would activate at once before the Cackling Counterpart or any of its copies resolved. I think I now understand how you are say it would work. The Precursor Golems "get in a line" wait until the copies of Cackling Counterpart from the Precursor Golem's 2nd ability in front of it to finish resolving before firing its own 2nd ability, and when if fires it gets all of them that are in play at that time....
Wow, that is just insane. I hope that never happens.
Now to simplify it a little and make sure I got it.
1 Cackling Counterpart targeting a token would result in a total of 18 Precursor Golems and 126 Golem tokens.
Anyway, glad I registered for this question. Sadly I normally understand the stack fairly well(as a programmer I deal with stacks everyday at work), just this one messed me up.. Been playing since Ice Age with a break from 2003 until the Eldrazi set.
How are copies being applied to the new tokens, I thought the copy affect happens when Cackling Counterpart is put onto the stack, and that as it resolves and the new tokens enter play more copies are not created because the copies of cackling counterpart were made and targeted all legal targets at the time Cackling Counterpart was put on the stack. I don't see how a new token being created creates a new copy of cackling Counterpart on the stack to re-trigger the precursor golem's 2nd ability.
Too bad Fleeting Distraction is not standard any more.
If Precursor is the target: 584 new precursor tokens and 28928 non-precursor tokens
If a non-precursor is the target: 648 new precursor tokens and 29888 non-precursor tokens
... You have to cast your Cackling Counterpart after the copy ability resolves (so there are absurd numbers of Doom Blade on the stack) but before those Doom Blades go off...
That is the timing I was thinking of.
Now, for the next part that just bounced into my head. Some abilities stack, like the Intangible Virtues (all the tokens have +1/+1 for each one in play).... Would the same be true for the number of Precursor Golems in play?
Think if the target creature gets +3/+0 from whatever instant until end for turn with 2 precursor golems in play. Would the spell get copied twice to each other golem, with only the original target only getting the affect once? If this is true wouldn't it be for Cackling Counterpart too.
So in my previous post with 3 parallel, 9 precursors and 272 as a starting post. That would be an additional 648 precursors and 27784 basic golem tokens... if cackling targeted on of the basic 3/3 golem tokens. If a precursor was the target there would be 584 precursors and 28928 basic golem tokens
Yeah, I got 16 happy when I started the spread sheet. He really just looked at his next card, couldn't do anything and called it so the math in the game didn't have to be figured.
Ok back on the prevention of the loss of golems then. If I happen to have another Cackling Counterpart and cast it before the removal resolves it would again target all of them. When Cackling Counnterpart resolves I should get an additional 72 Precursor Golems and 3328 golem tokens that should be safe since they came into play after he cast his removal that was targeting the original 9 and 272. Is this correct?
First, sorry I didn't get time to finish my post on this before. My son woke from his nap and I submitted so I could just find my post when I returned and edit it. I'll repost what I had and complete my thought this time.
Today my Innistra desk proved to be another one of my math decks, I didn't even know it would do it until I had the cards in play. Had 3 Parallel Lives in play. Cast my Precursor Golem, got 16 tokens. Then I cast Cackling Counterpart targeting one of them... If my math doesn't fail me that ended me up with 17 Precursor Golems and 528 3/3 golem tokens. Now add that I had 2 Intangible Virtues in play and that was a lot of something going out next turn if someone could not target one with a disenchant or something. He didn't LOL!
But, my question turns to this: If I had Demonmail Hauberk in play and he attempted to cast a Disenchant, Doom Blade or other removal could I sacrifice the Precursor Golems to the Demonmail Hauberk before the copies are made. If not Demonmail is there any sacrifice, maybe for a mana source ability that would prevent the copies that removes all the golems?
I was thinking that all nine of the Precursor Golems' 2nd ability would activate at once before the Cackling Counterpart or any of its copies resolved. I think I now understand how you are say it would work. The Precursor Golems "get in a line" wait until the copies of Cackling Counterpart from the Precursor Golem's 2nd ability in front of it to finish resolving before firing its own 2nd ability, and when if fires it gets all of them that are in play at that time....
Wow, that is just insane. I hope that never happens.
Now to simplify it a little and make sure I got it.
Relovent Board:
1 Parallel Lives
2 Precursor Golems
4 Golem Tokens
1 Cackling Counterpart targeting a token would result in a total of 18 Precursor Golems and 126 Golem tokens.
Anyway, glad I registered for this question. Sadly I normally understand the stack fairly well(as a programmer I deal with stacks everyday at work), just this one messed me up.. Been playing since Ice Age with a break from 2003 until the Eldrazi set.
Too bad Fleeting Distraction is not standard any more.
Got it, I think.
If Precursor is the target: 584 new precursor tokens and 28928 non-precursor tokens
If a non-precursor is the target: 648 new precursor tokens and 29888 non-precursor tokens
That is the timing I was thinking of.
Now, for the next part that just bounced into my head. Some abilities stack, like the Intangible Virtues (all the tokens have +1/+1 for each one in play).... Would the same be true for the number of Precursor Golems in play?
Think if the target creature gets +3/+0 from whatever instant until end for turn with 2 precursor golems in play. Would the spell get copied twice to each other golem, with only the original target only getting the affect once? If this is true wouldn't it be for Cackling Counterpart too.
So in my previous post with 3 parallel, 9 precursors and 272 as a starting post. That would be an additional 648 precursors and 27784 basic golem tokens... if cackling targeted on of the basic 3/3 golem tokens. If a precursor was the target there would be 584 precursors and 28928 basic golem tokens
Ok back on the prevention of the loss of golems then. If I happen to have another Cackling Counterpart and cast it before the removal resolves it would again target all of them. When Cackling Counnterpart resolves I should get an additional 72 Precursor Golems and 3328 golem tokens that should be safe since they came into play after he cast his removal that was targeting the original 9 and 272. Is this correct?
Today my Innistra desk proved to be another one of my math decks, I didn't even know it would do it until I had the cards in play. Had 3 Parallel Lives in play. Cast my Precursor Golem, got 16 tokens. Then I cast Cackling Counterpart targeting one of them... If my math doesn't fail me that ended me up with 17 Precursor Golems and 528 3/3 golem tokens. Now add that I had 2 Intangible Virtues in play and that was a lot of something going out next turn if someone could not target one with a disenchant or something. He didn't LOL!
But, my question turns to this: If I had Demonmail Hauberk in play and he attempted to cast a Disenchant, Doom Blade or other removal could I sacrifice the Precursor Golems to the Demonmail Hauberk before the copies are made. If not Demonmail is there any sacrifice, maybe for a mana source ability that would prevent the copies that removes all the golems?