Question: have anyone tried Grand Abolisher? What’s the verdict? Is it good or is it bad and why?
Currently I’m playing 2of of him and it’s pretty good I feel?
Voice is just better as it actually gives you some value if they bolt/push it.
But Grand Abolisher protect you the turn you Combo?
Not really as you still need to play and wait for summoning sickness to wear off. If they have removal they'd just do it in respons to the abolisher anyway. It does basicly nothing..
If you really want to beat storm you should have both Eidolon and cannonist in your sideboard. Cannonist can be chorded for turn 3 off a druid, while Eidolon can't. This is crucial to not lose turn 3.
Freebooter vs Sculler discussion:
There are many relevant creatures we want to take, like baral/goblin, Titan, Thought Knot seer, ooze, anything from the humans deck, etc etc..
Also sculler can do sacrifice tricks and cannot be responded to like Freebooter can. I was initially on freebooter, but after testing both, I just can't go away from sculler. The more awkward mana and non flying is worth the huge upside.
The mana issue is something you can usually plan for anyway.
Here is my current list. I tried switching to the Tidehollow sculler version yesterday, and it was extremely good.
Here are some highlights (small sample size, 4 rounds)
It was "2 mana win the game" in at least one game of every match.
Titan shift: It took the summoners pact, preventing him from getting a titan.
Burn: Allstar, one game it had a helix under it and I was at 3 life.
Storm: Snagged a Baral on the play, won me the game.
Last matchup was some zombie brew, so it didn't really matter.
I cut some of the flex/toolbox slots to make room. I am wondering wether to go for the full 4 in the main.
There's so much storm, burn, titan decks and other unfair stuff lately, that imo it's really well positioned.
Scullers also make the sin collectors and Distended mindbenders in the side even better. Game 2/3 when they have a lot of hate for the combo, we attack from a totally different angle.
I've been saying that distended mindbender is great in the sideboard for ages! I've played 2 for a long time.
It's really good in all our difficult matchups. It can single handedly win alone, even if it doesnt resolve.
Eldrazi tron/normal tron, scapeshift variants, Ad Nauseum, any control deck that plays cryptic/boardwipes, and even Jund/abzan post sideboard if you expect damnation/Kalitas/night of souls betrayal.
I don't play the version with scullers, but I can see it getting even better with those, as you can stack the triggers to give them back the card, then take it again with mindbender:)
Sometimes you get free wins with Sin collector into mindbender.
It's also immune to all is dust, and generally the usual sideboard cards they bring in against us doesn't work against it.
I won a 31 person tournament yesterday, managed to dodge Eldrazi tron and valakut decks. Played against the new 5 color humans deck as well, which is a good matchup.
Met my friend in the finals, which plays the same deck, except he is trying 4 freebooter in the main. He said the card has been amazing the whole tournament and frequently won him games, so it's something I'm interested in trying out.
The fact that it's flying and not an artifact is an advantage..
3 of the matches are actually on camera, I can post them when they are put on youtube. (Against death and taxes, UB control and mirror)
Hi thread! I have a few questions about strategy/sideboarding with this deck
Vs jeskai control, which is the best way to win? So far I have not been able to win a single game. I've tried siding in decays (for queller), sin collector, lead the stampede and siding out chords but it doesn't seem like it's enough.
In the mirror, which cards do you usually side out? finks? I know that finks isn't the best there because infinite life is almost worthless but there are situations where you want to be attacking / don't want to be attacked, and finks is awesome at doing so.
Also, which is the consensus best way of beating valakut decks? I've tried siding 2 burrenton, and I've thought about magus of the moon, but they all seem too low impact... Sin collector is a card too, but even lower impact. Apart from going burrenton/selfless into druid, vizier, duskwatch I haven't found a way to win. So I don't know if I should board more burrenton/selfless effects or if I should go with mindcensor/moon kind of cards...
Only way I win against valakut is either fast combo. (like double druid for redundancy and vizier) or combination of sin collectors and distended mindbenders.
I mean, selfless spirit helps a little bit to protect against anger, but I usually either need to be fast or heavy on disruption.. Not been happy with Aven mindcensor either.. It's a bad matchup.
I side out Chords. We dont win by giving them the easiest Negate/Dispel targets and the only really great Chord plays are Selfless Spirit and Scooze in response to a sweeper pr snappi imo, plus keeps the non-creature count low.
Is UW really a bad matchup though? I've played against it pretty extensively against my friend, and he hasn't beaten me a single time. I've also let him SB against me while I remain on MB, and I still wreck him every time. Jeskai on the other hand seems nearly impossible to win against.
I think people playing both ballista and Rhonas are doing it wrong. Bold statement I know, but you don't need 2 win conditions after infinite mana.
I personally think Rhonas is better, as you can hit it off coco, so you can win with just druid combo + a coco, which happens sometimes. I have played hundreds of games now, and not ONCE were I not able to win with either Rhonas, or just going infinite with finks after drawing all my creatures and playing them. The cases where it doesnt work are so suuuuper fringe.
Rhonas wins through ensnaring bridge, and you can play around weird cards like deflecting palm if you actually play the deck a bit. (people bringing in deflecting palm against this deck are also wrong)
You allways get duskwatch recruiter and play all your things before going for the win, which eliminates like 99,99% of things that can go wrong.
If your meta is full of affinity, hatebears, mirror and elves, then I see the argument for ballista, but then I'd rather have Orzhov pontiff main instead. Ballista is such a horrible play for 2 or 4 mana against so many decks, it's just a dead card too often, and a miss off coco.
Hmm I'm down. I'll test a mindbender out tonight just for the lulz.
Has the potential to just be rubbish of course, but who knows. I feel like you have to have a really good start for it to make sense, and in those scenarios you're probably winning anyway, but I'll admit the discard is very strong against the combo contingent of modern.
Just remember that you need double black for it when fetching.
Going turn 1 mana dork into turn 2 finks doesn't exactly win any games, especially not against things like valakut decks or tron. It's actually a really bad start.. But if you follow up with mindbender, you might actually have a chance. (either that or combo them quick.)
Just wanted to say that sin collector have been extremely awesome lately. It has consistently won games.
It's probably only against tron I'd rather have the sculler, and against allmost any other deck I'd rather have sin collector. I have 2 in the board and I'm thinking about going up to 3, that's how good they have been.
Exiling is so much better than discarding, it's gone forever. It makes matchups like storm, Ad Nauseam, control, burn, Deaths's shadow etc way better.
The 1-2 punch of sin collector into distended mindbender can just be game over instantly in some cases, I've discarded allmost entire hands from control for the win.
Speaking of, Distended mindbender has been extremely good in some of our worst matchups, and if you havent tried it, I really recommend it.
Against eldrazi tron, valakut decks, normal tron, control, Ad Nauseam, and basicly any deck that consistently will run or board in 4 mana cards, Distended mindbender can just wreck them.
But that's not the only advantage. It attacks from a totally different angle than people are used to. It doesn't care about anger, bolt etc, and it can survive both Ugin and all is dust. It often discards the removal spell that can itself deal with it as well.
It can be awkward occasionally, but so worth it imo.
Having a good card against valakut and tron type decks is the main reason I run it.
You have strange thoughts about "good in some of our worst matchups".
I'm not saying it won't work... but cc7 is not too much?
I always thought it was Sigarda too expansive for this deck... tell me what I'm doing wrong?
I'm not sure if you know how distended mindbender and emerge works, but you can cast it turn 3.
Turn 2 mana dork into 3 drop into mindbender, saccing for example a finks or a Sin collector.
Turn 2 druid into turn 3 mindbender also works fine.
If you have to wait untill turn 4, that is also fine.
It's actually easier to cast than sigarda usually (things can of course go wrong as well)
Cast triggers are really powerfull, control has a really hard time against them, and Ad Nauseums pacts of negation don't do much.
Just wanted to say that sin collector have been extremely awesome lately. It has consistently won games.
It's probably only against tron I'd rather have the sculler, and against allmost any other deck I'd rather have sin collector. I have 2 in the board and I'm thinking about going up to 3, that's how good they have been.
Exiling is so much better than discarding, it's gone forever. It makes matchups like storm, Ad Nauseam, control, burn, Deaths's shadow etc way better.
The 1-2 punch of sin collector into distended mindbender can just be game over instantly in some cases, I've discarded allmost entire hands from control for the win.
Speaking of, Distended mindbender has been extremely good in some of our worst matchups, and if you havent tried it, I really recommend it.
Against eldrazi tron, valakut decks, normal tron, control, Ad Nauseam, and basicly any deck that consistently will run or board in 4 mana cards, Distended mindbender can just wreck them.
But that's not the only advantage. It attacks from a totally different angle than people are used to. It doesn't care about anger, bolt etc, and it can survive both Ugin and all is dust. It often discards the removal spell that can itself deal with it as well.
It can be awkward occasionally, but so worth it imo.
Having a good card against valakut and tron type decks is the main reason I run it.
Just wanted to mention something, as I've met a couple of players of this deck that didn't know it.
You can put counters on your druid even if it has summoning sickness. Like for example if you want it in the graveyard instead of a land from path, or if you have 2 and they Maelstrom pulse it. There's never any reason to get your druid exiled if you don't want it to be.
Had a friend say he didn't want to play out 2, because he suspected maelstrom pulse from his opponent, but they can never kill 2 druids with that if you don't want them to.
There are two decks that are close to unwinable in my experience. UW Titan and Monoblack, they have the disruption and the lategame.
i think at least 2 paths should be in any sb.
See I find this weird, because I don't have a problem with UW titan, or most versions of UW control. I've been boardwiped several times in games and still won. The games go really long though, and it can be really grindy. I've been more worried about going to time.
I've only played against that mono black deck twice, but won both matches and didn't seem unfavoured. The only creature that's a problem is the obliterator and that's only game 1. They don't grind as well as you, and can't stop a coco.
Just board the same as against deaths shadow, much removal and grindy cards, take out some of the combo and cards of lesser impact.
Also, I strongly suggest playing maelstrom pulse instead of abrubt decay in the side, as it's good against basicly any deck, where abrubt can easily get stuck in your hand or be wrong to board in.
Bad burn playters will board in deflecting palm against you, which is a mistake, and very easy to play around.
Well not if your running rhonas.
I dont like the coco nobo with chameleon. i rather play crusader.
Yes if you are running Rhonas.
I run only Rhonas, not Ballista, and deflecting palm does something in maybe 1 of 50 games.
I will only get you if you make mistakes.
Here's how to play around it in a few different ways:
Get duskwatch recruiter, and pull out all the creatures in your deck, including Rhonas.
Play every kitchen finks and similar to gain life. If you have black mana, play a viscera seer, if not, keep up or witness back a chord. If you do that, don't pull out viscera seer from your deck, you can chord for it if you need it.
Only pump for what is needed to kill them.
Gain infinite life if you can before attacking, (often easy if you pull out all your creatures anyway)
If you have 2 creatures attacking, you just sacrifice the one they choose with deflecting palm.
So the only times this is a slight issue, is if it's turn 3, so you only have druid to attack with. And you don't have either chord, coco, or anything to put viscera seer into play, and even after playing all your kitchen finks, you are already on lower life than opponent. This happens so extremely rarely, that it's not an issue.
In all other cases, the opponent is forced to keep open 2 mana for their bad card that usually does nothing, which means they are not pressuring you..
Also, for coco, I like Pharika better than chameleon colossus. It's better against other control decks, and it's a coco hit.
Chameleon colossus is cool, but I don't like trying to naturally draw 1 ofs in a matchup, and I side out my chords against death's shadow anyway.
Not really as you still need to play and wait for summoning sickness to wear off. If they have removal they'd just do it in respons to the abolisher anyway. It does basicly nothing..
Voice is just better as it actually gives you some value if they bolt/push it.
Freebooter vs Sculler discussion:
There are many relevant creatures we want to take, like baral/goblin, Titan, Thought Knot seer, ooze, anything from the humans deck, etc etc..
Also sculler can do sacrifice tricks and cannot be responded to like Freebooter can. I was initially on freebooter, but after testing both, I just can't go away from sculler. The more awkward mana and non flying is worth the huge upside.
The mana issue is something you can usually plan for anyway.
Here is my current list. I tried switching to the Tidehollow sculler version yesterday, and it was extremely good.
Here are some highlights (small sample size, 4 rounds)
It was "2 mana win the game" in at least one game of every match.
Titan shift: It took the summoners pact, preventing him from getting a titan.
Burn: Allstar, one game it had a helix under it and I was at 3 life.
Storm: Snagged a Baral on the play, won me the game.
Last matchup was some zombie brew, so it didn't really matter.
I cut some of the flex/toolbox slots to make room. I am wondering wether to go for the full 4 in the main.
There's so much storm, burn, titan decks and other unfair stuff lately, that imo it's really well positioned.
Scullers also make the sin collectors and Distended mindbenders in the side even better. Game 2/3 when they have a lot of hate for the combo, we attack from a totally different angle.
It's really good in all our difficult matchups. It can single handedly win alone, even if it doesnt resolve.
Eldrazi tron/normal tron, scapeshift variants, Ad Nauseum, any control deck that plays cryptic/boardwipes, and even Jund/abzan post sideboard if you expect damnation/Kalitas/night of souls betrayal.
I don't play the version with scullers, but I can see it getting even better with those, as you can stack the triggers to give them back the card, then take it again with mindbender:)
Sometimes you get free wins with Sin collector into mindbender.
It's also immune to all is dust, and generally the usual sideboard cards they bring in against us doesn't work against it.
Met my friend in the finals, which plays the same deck, except he is trying 4 freebooter in the main. He said the card has been amazing the whole tournament and frequently won him games, so it's something I'm interested in trying out.
The fact that it's flying and not an artifact is an advantage..
3 of the matches are actually on camera, I can post them when they are put on youtube. (Against death and taxes, UB control and mirror)
Only way I win against valakut is either fast combo. (like double druid for redundancy and vizier) or combination of sin collectors and distended mindbenders.
I mean, selfless spirit helps a little bit to protect against anger, but I usually either need to be fast or heavy on disruption.. Not been happy with Aven mindcensor either.. It's a bad matchup.
It's a great matchup imo. I allmost never lose it. Only problem I've had a couple of times are the games can get so grindy and take too long.
I find Jeskai can go both ways, but we have the tools to beat them, and things like mindbender can wreck them.
I personally think Rhonas is better, as you can hit it off coco, so you can win with just druid combo + a coco, which happens sometimes. I have played hundreds of games now, and not ONCE were I not able to win with either Rhonas, or just going infinite with finks after drawing all my creatures and playing them. The cases where it doesnt work are so suuuuper fringe.
Rhonas wins through ensnaring bridge, and you can play around weird cards like deflecting palm if you actually play the deck a bit. (people bringing in deflecting palm against this deck are also wrong)
You allways get duskwatch recruiter and play all your things before going for the win, which eliminates like 99,99% of things that can go wrong.
If your meta is full of affinity, hatebears, mirror and elves, then I see the argument for ballista, but then I'd rather have Orzhov pontiff main instead. Ballista is such a horrible play for 2 or 4 mana against so many decks, it's just a dead card too often, and a miss off coco.
Just remember that you need double black for it when fetching.
Going turn 1 mana dork into turn 2 finks doesn't exactly win any games, especially not against things like valakut decks or tron. It's actually a really bad start.. But if you follow up with mindbender, you might actually have a chance. (either that or combo them quick.)
I'm not sure if you know how distended mindbender and emerge works, but you can cast it turn 3.
Turn 2 mana dork into 3 drop into mindbender, saccing for example a finks or a Sin collector.
Turn 2 druid into turn 3 mindbender also works fine.
If you have to wait untill turn 4, that is also fine.
It's actually easier to cast than sigarda usually (things can of course go wrong as well)
Cast triggers are really powerfull, control has a really hard time against them, and Ad Nauseums pacts of negation don't do much.
It's probably only against tron I'd rather have the sculler, and against allmost any other deck I'd rather have sin collector. I have 2 in the board and I'm thinking about going up to 3, that's how good they have been.
Exiling is so much better than discarding, it's gone forever. It makes matchups like storm, Ad Nauseam, control, burn, Deaths's shadow etc way better.
The 1-2 punch of sin collector into distended mindbender can just be game over instantly in some cases, I've discarded allmost entire hands from control for the win.
Speaking of, Distended mindbender has been extremely good in some of our worst matchups, and if you havent tried it, I really recommend it.
Against eldrazi tron, valakut decks, normal tron, control, Ad Nauseam, and basicly any deck that consistently will run or board in 4 mana cards, Distended mindbender can just wreck them.
But that's not the only advantage. It attacks from a totally different angle than people are used to. It doesn't care about anger, bolt etc, and it can survive both Ugin and all is dust. It often discards the removal spell that can itself deal with it as well.
It can be awkward occasionally, but so worth it imo.
Having a good card against valakut and tron type decks is the main reason I run it.
You can put counters on your druid even if it has summoning sickness. Like for example if you want it in the graveyard instead of a land from path, or if you have 2 and they Maelstrom pulse it. There's never any reason to get your druid exiled if you don't want it to be.
Had a friend say he didn't want to play out 2, because he suspected maelstrom pulse from his opponent, but they can never kill 2 druids with that if you don't want them to.
See I find this weird, because I don't have a problem with UW titan, or most versions of UW control. I've been boardwiped several times in games and still won. The games go really long though, and it can be really grindy. I've been more worried about going to time.
I've only played against that mono black deck twice, but won both matches and didn't seem unfavoured. The only creature that's a problem is the obliterator and that's only game 1. They don't grind as well as you, and can't stop a coco.
Just board the same as against deaths shadow, much removal and grindy cards, take out some of the combo and cards of lesser impact.
Also, I strongly suggest playing maelstrom pulse instead of abrubt decay in the side, as it's good against basicly any deck, where abrubt can easily get stuck in your hand or be wrong to board in.
Yes if you are running Rhonas.
I run only Rhonas, not Ballista, and deflecting palm does something in maybe 1 of 50 games.
I will only get you if you make mistakes.
Here's how to play around it in a few different ways:
Get duskwatch recruiter, and pull out all the creatures in your deck, including Rhonas.
Play every kitchen finks and similar to gain life. If you have black mana, play a viscera seer, if not, keep up or witness back a chord. If you do that, don't pull out viscera seer from your deck, you can chord for it if you need it.
Only pump for what is needed to kill them.
Gain infinite life if you can before attacking, (often easy if you pull out all your creatures anyway)
If you have 2 creatures attacking, you just sacrifice the one they choose with deflecting palm.
So the only times this is a slight issue, is if it's turn 3, so you only have druid to attack with. And you don't have either chord, coco, or anything to put viscera seer into play, and even after playing all your kitchen finks, you are already on lower life than opponent. This happens so extremely rarely, that it's not an issue.
In all other cases, the opponent is forced to keep open 2 mana for their bad card that usually does nothing, which means they are not pressuring you..
Also, for coco, I like Pharika better than chameleon colossus. It's better against other control decks, and it's a coco hit.
Chameleon colossus is cool, but I don't like trying to naturally draw 1 ofs in a matchup, and I side out my chords against death's shadow anyway.