Hey sicsmoo, thank you so much for all the work you've put into the deck. I've been running your list and sideboarding as you suggested and it's running like a dream. Even got the League Trophy leader to ask me to concede when I was about to win the final game.
Hey y'all. I've been playing Humans on MTGO for a while and I'm wondering how everyone has felt facing Tocatli Honor Guard or Torpor Orb out of the sideboard It's so demoralizing to see it turn 2, especially after I've played a Champion of the Parish, haha.
I am looking forward testing this deck for the upcoming PTQ season, would like to encourage you trying it out by yourselves and would appreciate your constructive feedback.
I just tried your deck at a small modern event. I won 2-0 vs UWR control and lost 1-2 vs Melira Pod. I had Goblin Guide instead of Delver of Secrets (call it a knee-jerk reaction after having delver flip problems in my playtesting). I wish I hadn't, though, because I feel that the pod matchup may have been won had I a delver to fly above the blockers.
The deck ran very well. I'm a little unsure as to how to sideboard vs Melira Pod, specifically what to side out against them. Any tips?
I also played against the Scapeshift list that won the last big tournament. I went 3-1 in games (all without sideboard), losing a game in which I kept a greedy one lander (it was super tempting on account of counter magic and turn 1 Nacatl).
It has its match-ups where it is very powerful. Modern is a card-value and knowledge format. If you know what you are doing, and are playing good cards, you can win with almost any deck. Bant plays great cards and has fine match-ups against most of the field. My personal play-style lends itself to a more aggressive deck, but in your hands Bant may just be superior. It is all about what you are comfortable with.
I see. That's a very refreshing way of looking at things (a far cry from the instant dismissals and flaming I'm accustomed to reading when it comes to discussion of deck power).
Do you have any other advice regarding the pod matchup? I feel fairly comfortable against Melira, but the quick chains of Kikipod just tear me apart in game 1. Should I chalk up game 1 as being unfavorable, and count on winning the rest of the set?
After playing Bant into the ground I have come to the conclusion that it is simply an inferior version of a Wild Nacatl Counter-Zoo deck.
I learned four things playing with this deck.
1. You need lightning bolt in this format, It is too good to not play in a zoo deck.
2. Birds really, really suck. Getting a bird bolted on a two land hand is a blow-out half the time. With all the three drops we run this can slow us down to the point where we can't win the game.
3. Having an efficient one drop to clock combo decks is really important.
4. Did I mention you really need lighting bolt to beat most decks?
With these things in mind this is the new list I built, and have been playing to great success.
Depending on your meta Geist can be Knight of the Reliquary, you can even run a split. In general, I pick Geist for combo and control metas and Knight if I think I will be facing midrange and aggro.
@dcalrokundess
Spell snare is a very meta choice. One of the decks that it actually sucks against is Pod (It is next to useless in this match-up). It is ok against Kiki because of all their two drop counter-magic but there are much better cards to be running. Bant Charm is very good against Melira, but it is only so-so against Kiki. I would actually consider running Dismember against both of these decks before I look at Bant Charm. Never forget that Dismember is the best green kill spell ever printed.
In your meta my SB would look like this:
2 x Thrun the Last Troll
4 x Leyline of Sanctity
4 x Rest in Peace
2 x Negate
1 x Torpor Orb
2 x Aven Mindcensor
Keep in mind that his SB is very targeted for the decks you listed. I would never recommend taking a SB as specific as this to a wide open tournament or you will get steam rolled by random stuff.
Thank you so much for the sideboarding help. I am a little disappointed to hear that Bant isn't as powerful as I hoped, though.
I really do not like your changes. You can do what you want with the deck, and in certain situations almost anything can be good, but here are my opinions.
Bant Charm is a great card and is interchangeable with Mana Leak. It hurts your early game but makes your late game a bit better. You can't beat Scapeshift game one now though.
Simic Charm is a "cute" card. It is really bad most of the time. Sure it will save you in some situations where Mana Leak would do nothing, but most of the time I would rather just have a counter spell. If your meta has no combo decks and a lot of control decks I could see Simic Charm being "ok".
Psionic Blast is only good because it is so bad. No one thinks you will have it (or even knows that it exists) so they will not play around it, giving you surprise wins and blowouts. 3 mana is a lot for a 4 damage effect, let alone one that hurts you, and I would rather play any of the other cards listed. If you want burn, splash two stomping grounds and play Bolt.
Spell Snare is a meta card, In my meta I need it for Cranial Plating, Goryo's Vengeance, Tarmogoyf, Bob, and it also lets me play Geist through counter magic against UWR. Snare is amazing in Modern and is rarely dead, almost every deck has something you can counter with it. It also gives you game against boggles by countering Daybreak Coronet. Boggles is pretty miserable if they get life gain going and we need counters main deck to beat them.
Smiter is the best card in this deck, period. If I could play 10 I would. My meta is full of Jund and discard so he really is a work horse. You can cut two for other three drops but I would advise against it.
My SB changes weekly depending on what decks I see or think will be at a tournament. Play what beats your meta. If everyone at your LGS plays affinity play a sideboard of 15 artifact hate cards. My LGS has two mill players who come once in a while. When I see them I cut a Mirran Crusader for an Emrakul. Sideboarding is all about meta gaming and I really cant make a guide for it. The general principle is to take out cards that are bad and put in cards that are good. If you tell me what your meta is like I can construct a sideboard for you and tell you how to use it.
In General here are some tips:
Always have two swords in the deck, pick the colors/effects that are the most relevant.
Against aggro: Cut Mana Leak and bring in more creatures as blockers.
Against control: Cut birds and board in more counters and Thrun. If they play Clique and 4x Snapcaster, you can cut Qasali for Torpor Orb.
Against combo: There are so many combos in modern. Different cards are relevant against each. In combo matchups you want to cut the support creatures that do nothing and Elspeth for relevant hate cards.
Against midrange: I usually cut support creatures and bring in more swords and Thrun. My meta has a lot of Jund so I also bring in Crusader in those match ups.
I've had tremendous success in my testing with your list. I have a question about spell snare, though. You mention that it's largely a meta choice. My meta is heavily populated with pod decks (Kiki and Melira), would it be a bad idea to replace snares with bant charm?
My meta is Kiki pod, 3x Melira pod, dredge vine, ad nauseum (rarer), affinity, uwr control, and burn. Every now and then other decks show up but I'm more inclined to be ready for these. What sideboard would you recommend here?
@Timely Reinforcements : it's not that good against zoo decks with ghor-clan rampagers, but neither souls are. I guess the most efficient way to beat such decks is lot of removal plus batterskull/baneslayer angel.
The best way to beat zoo (which was not a big issue for me so far) is to put a gifts pile together which is full of lifegain. For example Rites, Thragtusk, Wurmcoil Engine, Timely Reinforcements. What I like about this pile in particular is that you always get a game winning lifegain-fattie, because when they give you the Rites/Engine into hand, you can now Rites your Tusk back and curve into WCE on your next turn OR they give you the Tusk and you can just cast it on curve and Rites the WCE back...this is also backbreaking against Jund. Another option would be Timely, Snapcaster, Thragtusk, Finks.
Would you mind posting a list as well? I've been doing some research on Gifts lists and been trying to test different variations.
I agree with Noob. Heavy Aggro is difficult, Tarmos are your worst enemy. Amusingly enough, straight burn is not that difficuot, especially if you have some kind of lifegain to stabilize with. I switched my Finks for Coursers, and they have been working incredibly, gaining me at least as much life as Finks would, frequently more. Also, I strongly recommend investing in the Hierarchs when you are able to, especially if you are in a Bant build. They are invaluable. Also, I purposefully did not put Fetchlands in my list as a way to pad my lifetotal. This is a meta call, and can backfire pretty badly because of a lack of shuffle effects. Hibernation gives an out vs Zoo and Fracturing Gust/Hurkyl's Recall is your out vs Robots. Also, Bant Charm does give you some game against them in G1, since it can break artifacts.
I dig.
How have Coursers been on the beatdown plan? I have felt that Finks are pretty good at applying pressure (especially with the Exalted trigger[s]) when one needs to switch gears from survival to just killing the opponent as soon as possible, has the -1 power difference been relevant?
You could easily main deck 1-2 Engineered Explosives and be able to deal with a variety of things.
That's true. I was a little concerned about Engineered Explosives Vs. Aether Vial but then I realized that most of the threats we'd be worried about are in the 2 cmc category, which isn't a very populated area in the bant lists (or at least consist of creatures that are fairly expendable [ie coiling oracle]). Of course, the lists with more Scavenging Ooze or Tarmogoyf would have to adapt more to utilize it effectively, but overall it can further serve to boost those two creatures by sending more permanents into the yard.
Hey NVRDBLND and Technomagus. I've been playing a bit with a bant list inspired from your lists (without Hierarchs because I don't have those yet). I was wondering what each of you considered to be your worst matchups, respectively.
Just curious, how many times am I going to have to suggest this before we drop the discussion on what archetype this is or whether UW is worse than UB and get back to discussing the deck? Has anyone tried running the Gifts Ungiven/Unburial Rites combo in the sideboard?
Hey, I've actually been trying to build a UW Gifts/Unburial Rites deck so I'm interested in this line of discussion as well. I haven't been able to do much testing yet, unfortunately, but hopefully we can get the discussion train rolling.
Which matchups would we prefer to side in the combo as opposed to sticking with the original setup or siding in different cards instead? I presume that a key strength of the Gifts/unburial combo in RWU delver was to catch the opponent off-guard with the switch from just small, aggressive creatures into big fatties. Does the gifts/unburial package give us enough strength to warrant its sideboard space?
I'm sorry, I feel like I'm just interrogating you about it rather than contributing. Is there any chance you could provide a sample deck list? I can do some testing soon.
Okay, I'm going to try to answer the Cryptic vs Manland question as it's come up in my games. As I understand it, it works like this (bear in mind I'm going to skip over the priority passes on the stack):
- Beginning of Combat Step
- Active player receives priority first to cast instants, use activated abilities (manland activation, etc), etc. If active player passes, then
- Inactive player receives priority to cast instants, use activated abilities, etc.
Beginning of Combat Step is the active player's last chance to activate manlands for an attack. If he passes priority to you, then you cast Cryptic to tap, the active player receives priority again after resolution of Cryptic Command to cast instants, use abilities, etc, after which you would receive priority again. If he passed priority in Beg. of Combat and you passed it back without using Cryptic, the game would move to Declare Attackers step (in this scenario he would have lost his opportunity to activate the manland and you would have lost your opportunity to tap his attackers down before attacks are declared.). Only after both players have passed priority can the game proceed to Declare Attackers step.
Please let me know if I made any mistakes or was unclear anywhere. That's how it was explained to me.
I switched from Standard to Modern. I swapped for three reasons:
1. My friend started to get into it.
2. My cards were rotating.
3. I played the Chaos Reigns planechase deck, which got me hooked on cascading. Luckily Jund hadn't become the Big Bad Boogeyman yet so I was able to get everything for much less than it would cost now.
I just tried your deck at a small modern event. I won 2-0 vs UWR control and lost 1-2 vs Melira Pod. I had Goblin Guide instead of Delver of Secrets (call it a knee-jerk reaction after having delver flip problems in my playtesting). I wish I hadn't, though, because I feel that the pod matchup may have been won had I a delver to fly above the blockers.
The deck ran very well. I'm a little unsure as to how to sideboard vs Melira Pod, specifically what to side out against them. Any tips?
I also played against the Scapeshift list that won the last big tournament. I went 3-1 in games (all without sideboard), losing a game in which I kept a greedy one lander (it was super tempting on account of counter magic and turn 1 Nacatl).
I see. That's a very refreshing way of looking at things (a far cry from the instant dismissals and flaming I'm accustomed to reading when it comes to discussion of deck power).
Do you have any other advice regarding the pod matchup? I feel fairly comfortable against Melira, but the quick chains of Kikipod just tear me apart in game 1. Should I chalk up game 1 as being unfavorable, and count on winning the rest of the set?
There are multiple lists without goyfs. Some have gone with Knight of the Reliquary as referenced by AnimateBread (found here http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/231631), while others have gone with the more controlling wrath package.
Thank you so much for the sideboarding help. I am a little disappointed to hear that Bant isn't as powerful as I hoped, though.
I've had tremendous success in my testing with your list. I have a question about spell snare, though. You mention that it's largely a meta choice. My meta is heavily populated with pod decks (Kiki and Melira), would it be a bad idea to replace snares with bant charm?
My meta is Kiki pod, 3x Melira pod, dredge vine, ad nauseum (rarer), affinity, uwr control, and burn. Every now and then other decks show up but I'm more inclined to be ready for these. What sideboard would you recommend here?
Would you mind posting a list as well? I've been doing some research on Gifts lists and been trying to test different variations.
I dig.
How have Coursers been on the beatdown plan? I have felt that Finks are pretty good at applying pressure (especially with the Exalted trigger[s]) when one needs to switch gears from survival to just killing the opponent as soon as possible, has the -1 power difference been relevant?
I'll get Hierarchs asap!
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That's true. I was a little concerned about Engineered Explosives Vs. Aether Vial but then I realized that most of the threats we'd be worried about are in the 2 cmc category, which isn't a very populated area in the bant lists (or at least consist of creatures that are fairly expendable [ie coiling oracle]). Of course, the lists with more Scavenging Ooze or Tarmogoyf would have to adapt more to utilize it effectively, but overall it can further serve to boost those two creatures by sending more permanents into the yard.
Maindecked Engineered Explosives could also provide additional artifact fuel for lists running Thirst for Knowledge.
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For anyone running BUG lists, have you tried Profane Command? It seems like a reasonable way to get back Dark Confidant, Tarmogoyf, Eternal Witness, etc. without taking a beating from the bob triggers.
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Oh, another thing, regarding the lists that are running Stony Silence in the sideboard, do you generally side out Aether Vial in those matchups?
Hey, I've actually been trying to build a UW Gifts/Unburial Rites deck so I'm interested in this line of discussion as well. I haven't been able to do much testing yet, unfortunately, but hopefully we can get the discussion train rolling.
How much sideboard space should we dedicate to the Gifts/Unburial combo in this UW Control deck? Would it just be: 1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, 1 Iona, Shield of Emeria, 4 Gifts Ungiven, 1 Unburial Rites?
Which matchups would we prefer to side in the combo as opposed to sticking with the original setup or siding in different cards instead? I presume that a key strength of the Gifts/unburial combo in RWU delver was to catch the opponent off-guard with the switch from just small, aggressive creatures into big fatties. Does the gifts/unburial package give us enough strength to warrant its sideboard space?
I'm sorry, I feel like I'm just interrogating you about it rather than contributing. Is there any chance you could provide a sample deck list? I can do some testing soon.
- Beginning of Combat Step
- Active player receives priority first to cast instants, use activated abilities (manland activation, etc), etc. If active player passes, then
- Inactive player receives priority to cast instants, use activated abilities, etc.
Beginning of Combat Step is the active player's last chance to activate manlands for an attack. If he passes priority to you, then you cast Cryptic to tap, the active player receives priority again after resolution of Cryptic Command to cast instants, use abilities, etc, after which you would receive priority again. If he passed priority in Beg. of Combat and you passed it back without using Cryptic, the game would move to Declare Attackers step (in this scenario he would have lost his opportunity to activate the manland and you would have lost your opportunity to tap his attackers down before attacks are declared.). Only after both players have passed priority can the game proceed to Declare Attackers step.
Please let me know if I made any mistakes or was unclear anywhere. That's how it was explained to me.
Eternal Command: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/modern-deck-creation/220248-eternal-command
Eternal Ruse: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/modern-deck-creation/491337-eternal-ruse-now-with-videos
There is some existing discussion and thus more people may be able to help you with ideas.
1. My friend started to get into it.
2. My cards were rotating.
3. I played the Chaos Reigns planechase deck, which got me hooked on cascading. Luckily Jund hadn't become the Big Bad Boogeyman yet so I was able to get everything for much less than it would cost now.