So I made this deck a number of years ago (Edit: Made out of random cards I had + Izzet vs Golgori Duel Deck). I recently started playing again with some friends and well this deck just sits there and denies sometimes and gets killed the other times.
I don't have a lot of money to spend on this (Can't get fetches or any 10$+ cards until I start trading online [I need to organize and sort cards for Puca/Deckbox though x.x])
Any suggestions? It kinda looks like U/R Delver but I don't know what to put in or out. (I usually face off against aggro/rush/swarm/tokens/prowess[I really hate this mechanic for me ;-;])(Edit: They don't run super competitive legacy stuff tbh so the slower start is usually fine)
On the subject of "haste." Had a guy T1 Birds, Pass, then tap Birds for mana on my turn since "A creature doesn't have summoning sickness as soon as my turn ends."
I think the rules state that in order for a creature to not have "summoning sickness" normally, it needs to come into play then hit the current "owner's" upkeep step. Had quite a few arguments when some guy plays a fatty and I steal it and swing at him on my turn since i snatched it EoT (Memnarch/Shackles etc).
Not everyone understands the rules, hell i'm sure everyone has to ask a judge something when a strange interaction shows up so i'm usually leniant on the offender, but sometimes they should know better since it's a basic ability or they just flat out deny stuff when they don't understand how it works.
I find that rules about the Stack are so confusing that people just say its wrong for the fact that they don't want wrap their minds around it :/
I.E. Amulet of Vigor + A CIPT land. 3x Amulet + CIPT Land = 3 Mana Floating. "Doesn't work that way, amulet's don't stack" "Stack only triggers once since it becomes untapped, can't target itself" "Too confusing, you're wrong" this is even after I showed them an official ruling that this does work :/
So I'm not exactly sure I can be posting this hear. but since the "Casual -> Primer" is slow and this is a budget version of it here goes :/
Its not built to be tournament speeds so I figure getting Terramorphic/Bad River is a good bargain since i NEED either lands in place at any given moment. As to 4/2 2/4 3/3 I'm not quite sure as the speed is about the same (BR = ETBT land is untapped T2, Terra = ETB -> Land ETBT, T2 Usable)
No Force of Wills, No Fetches (Onslaught/Zendikar anyway), I will be getting a playset of Entomb eventually.
Like many others graveborn came out and Im attemping to make a "semi" budget version. Ill most likely proxy 3 other entombs before I get them eventually (only thing this deck can't replace z.z) Planning to get a whole bunch of big creatures to side in and out to have fun in multiplayer
Not sure what counterspell I should replace Force of Will with. Meta is casual mostly T5/6 kills in 1v1, T7+ kills for multi.
This is what it looks like so far. Is there a reason to run 3 Jin if I cant draw a FoW/Daze combo. Putrid Imp does it fit and if so what would it fit over?
^ Missing 4 Counterspells.
Counterspells that might work in place of Force of Will I guess. I'm thinking Rune Snag since it splashes well and scales nicely into late game but i'm not sure.
I was just wondering but is it best to run 4 magma jets or 3 since I would be forced to run 2 Volcanic Fallouts with 4 Jets and 3 with 3 Jets. (don't know if its better to run 4/2 or 3/3 of course fallout is in the swing slot too) Also I believe 3 Price is enough for most situations right?
Im thinking of switching out the marauders/hellsparks/Fallouts/Price for sideboard when needed
As for running Blue I would suggest running some counters to stop them from popping your wincon (Caress/Megrim) and definitely some protection as you cannot handle handle more than a couple creatures at a time. Being multiplayer and all Diabolic edict can only hit so many people. Innocent Blood would work better but its not an instant. There's also the old artifacts like The Rack and other cards like that.
I made a R/B Deck a while back and its just completely nuts when it works.
This deck is still in progress but this does hit everyone at once as does burn everyone even if they don't have any cards in hand. Burning Inquiry makes it so that once you cast it and they draw a card they cannot respond even if they drew a bolt or something. Another option is just turning the deck into a AoE Bloodchief/MindCrank combo.
So I was thinking of updating this to fit the meta i saw last time. Affinity, UB Control, High Tide, Goblins, Enchantress, Myr Tokens, Pox. Chance of Dredge coming in randomly too.
Here's a trim of what will most likely be in there along with choices I have.
Game 1: I roll high, he dead draws enough for me to burn him down T4.
Game 2: He goes first drops Candle T1, I manage to go off 1 turn before he does.
Game 3: He goes off and makes me draw 50+ cards.
Not really sure what Burn can do against High Tide other than maybe REB their high tide or maybe Pyrostatic Pillar. Lucky Win
1-0-0
Match 2 U/B Control
Game 1: Get him down to 2 Life, He Jace TMS's and I lose.
Game 2: Get him down to 4 Life, I have PoP in hand and let him Jace my top card and topdeck to draw out all the counters. PoP wins.
Game 3: T4 Burn Rush.
He had almost 90% Non Basic lands so PoP was MVP. Baited quite a lot of counters with Hellspark's and 1 cmc spells Hellsparks forcing him to take dmg, him fetching worked well in my favor as did a dismember paying 4 life.
2-0-0
Match 3 Affinity (With Mox Opal, No Ravager, Glimpse of Nature, Berserk)
Game 1: He got 2 signal pest onto the field and proceeded to rush me into Cranial + Berserk. Ow
Game 2: Sided in Fallout, Smash, saw smash, didn't stop him from combo'ing.
Game 3: Got 2 Fallout's and a Smash. Waited for him to combo, Fallout 1, wait for new Creature for Cranial smashed it, burned him down.
Fallout and Smash are nice but I die on average T4-5? If I don't have fallout in hand I autolose. Shattering Spree / Shatterstorm sure sound good in this matchup maybe even more Pyroclastic Pillar. Those Berserk's really really hurt :/. Glimpse makes it even faster.
Game 2: Dirty Dirty Dirty. T1 Guide, T2 Guide T3 Guide + Guide, T4 Bolt, Chain, Fireblast.
Nothing to say about this match but that his clock was slower than mines, he was playing Cloudpost/Glimmer Myr's and I beat him to it.
3-1-0
All in all a good experience though Quest is probably not the best thing to put in the deck hence why I Sb'ed it out most of the time. (Is kinda funny when a bolt does 6 and they are forced to counter it then I FB their face xD)
So I made a Black Red discard deck that only wins via Bloodchief (Minor) and Megrim/Liliana's Caress (Major) I'd like more consistent Liliana/Megrim's as this is a relatively budget deck. The problem with this is that if i don't have a way to proc bloodchief or dont have liliana's/megrim's on the field i'm sunk :/ (Batterskull for a lack of a better word is filler, recently acquired Liliana Vess maybe she will fit better)
What would i replace Verdeloth with? He's one of my token generators (granted countered = wasted mana :/)
Night Soil is for reoccuring creatures some friends play (Hellspark, Vengevines, etc.) dont see them much so i can throw them into SB. As for sprout i usually use it for primal growth but i think ironfist would work too.
-2 Verdeloth
+4 ironfist
-2 Gaea's Blessing
SB:
2 Night Soil
2 Beast Within
2 Back to Nature
As for the fungal cards i think personally i would need to revamp the deck into something that uses doubling season to approach the speed of this one currently.
So I wanted to make a saporling deck with that would work well with multi-player without being too overpowered. So far I've come up with just ramping out tons of walls and mass accelerating into a Mycoloth/Vigor Combo.
I realize that this is still pretty clunky and it has a lot of weaknesses "Pro-Green, Token Wipe, Wall Destruction, Etc" :<
Right now im thinking of adding Back to Nature in it as i play with people with leyline of punishment (akroma does nothing) or maybe Naturalize too. Bouncing, Removal, Burn is also there. Any suggestions as to how to avoid getting all my walls terminated (two people don't like my walls so its not uncommon for them to Swords to Plowshares and Terminates them which leaves me wide open)
I will eventually (hopefully) be able to trade some stuff into 8x Fetch so I'd like a more control base with 2x Grim lavamancers.
So something like
4 Young Pyromancer
2 Grim Lavamancer
Spells
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Forked Bolt
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Spell Pierce
2 Island
2 Mountain
8 Fetchlands
4 Steam Vents
4 Sulfur Falls
or something like that
In the meantime would you think terramorphic/evolving wilds combination would suffice until then?
1 Bad River
3 Island
2 Izzet Guildgate
2 Mountain
2 Mountain Valley
4 Steam Vents
4 Sulfur Falls
Artifact
2 Basilisk Collar
1 Isochron Scepter
4 Brainstorm
1 Counterflux
3 Cyclonic Rift
1 Dissipate
2 Izzet Charm
4 Ponder
2 Redirect
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Mana Leak
3 Gelectrode
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Izzet Staticaster
2 Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
Planeswalker
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
So I made this deck a number of years ago (Edit: Made out of random cards I had + Izzet vs Golgori Duel Deck). I recently started playing again with some friends and well this deck just sits there and denies sometimes and gets killed the other times.
I have a few ideas on what to do (Add in Gitaxian Probe, Terramorphic Expanse [Take out guildgates]), get Young Pyromancer / Monastery Swiftspear maybe?)
I don't have a lot of money to spend on this (Can't get fetches or any 10$+ cards until I start trading online [I need to organize and sort cards for Puca/Deckbox though x.x])
Any suggestions? It kinda looks like U/R Delver but I don't know what to put in or out. (I usually face off against aggro/rush/swarm/tokens/prowess[I really hate this mechanic for me ;-;])(Edit: They don't run super competitive legacy stuff tbh so the slower start is usually fine)
I think the rules state that in order for a creature to not have "summoning sickness" normally, it needs to come into play then hit the current "owner's" upkeep step. Had quite a few arguments when some guy plays a fatty and I steal it and swing at him on my turn since i snatched it EoT (Memnarch/Shackles etc).
Not everyone understands the rules, hell i'm sure everyone has to ask a judge something when a strange interaction shows up so i'm usually leniant on the offender, but sometimes they should know better since it's a basic ability or they just flat out deny stuff when they don't understand how it works.
I find that rules about the Stack are so confusing that people just say its wrong for the fact that they don't want wrap their minds around it :/
I.E. Amulet of Vigor + A CIPT land. 3x Amulet + CIPT Land = 3 Mana Floating. "Doesn't work that way, amulet's don't stack" "Stack only triggers once since it becomes untapped, can't target itself" "Too confusing, you're wrong" this is even after I showed them an official ruling that this does work :/
Its not built to be tournament speeds so I figure getting Terramorphic/Bad River is a good bargain since i NEED either lands in place at any given moment. As to 4/2 2/4 3/3 I'm not quite sure as the speed is about the same (BR = ETBT land is untapped T2, Terra = ETB -> Land ETBT, T2 Usable)
No Force of Wills, No Fetches (Onslaught/Zendikar anyway), I will be getting a playset of Entomb eventually.
Like many others graveborn came out and Im attemping to make a "semi" budget version. Ill most likely proxy 3 other entombs before I get them eventually (only thing this deck can't replace z.z) Planning to get a whole bunch of big creatures to side in and out to have fun in multiplayer
Not sure what counterspell I should replace Force of Will with. Meta is casual mostly T5/6 kills in 1v1, T7+ kills for multi.
This is what it looks like so far. Is there a reason to run 3 Jin if I cant draw a FoW/Daze combo. Putrid Imp does it fit and if so what would it fit over?
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Bad River
2 Terramorphic Expanse
4 Drowned Catacomb
3 Island
4 Swamp
3 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Blazing Archon
Spells
4 Entomb
3 Reanimate
4 Animate Dead
4 Exhume
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Careful Study
3 Daze
3 Duress
^ Missing 4 Counterspells.
Counterspells that might work in place of Force of Will I guess. I'm thinking Rune Snag since it splashes well and scales nicely into late game but i'm not sure.
Rune Snag
Counterspell
Mana Leak
Memory Lapse
Negate
Spell Pierce
Spell Snare
Now Im planning to get most of these creatures as the reanimator deck in legacy runs it and the creatures aren't ridiculously expensive.
Sundering Titan
Angel of Despair
Magister Sphinx
Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund
Sutured Ghoul
Krosan Cloudscraper
Iona, Shield of Emeria
Hellkite Overlord
Bladewing the Risen
Simic Sky Swallower
Sharuum the Hegemon
Empyrial Archangel
Terastodon
Edit: Also wanted to ask if 2 Rings 18 Mountains were preferable to 20 Mountains due to all the Stuff going on.
Hope to see the new burn thread good luck
Im thinking of switching out the marauders/hellsparks/Fallouts/Price for sideboard when needed
20 Mountain
Creatures
4 Goblin Guide
4 Keldon Marauders
3 Hellspark Elemental
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Fireblast
3 Magma Jet
3 Price of Progress
3 Volcanic Fallout
I made a R/B Deck a while back and its just completely nuts when it works.
4 DragonSkull Summit
4 Tainted Peak
12 Swamp
1 Batterskull
3 BloodChief Accension
4 Megrim
4 Liliana's Caress
4 Blightning
4 Terminate
2 Blackmail
2 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Bump in the Night
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Burning Inquiry
4 Dark Ritual
2 Rakdos Carnarium
2 Blackmail
2 Duress
2 Inquisition
4 Despise
2 Surgical Extraction
4 Mindcrank
1 Liliana Vess
This deck is still in progress but this does hit everyone at once as does burn everyone even if they don't have any cards in hand. Burning Inquiry makes it so that once you cast it and they draw a card they cannot respond even if they drew a bolt or something. Another option is just turning the deck into a AoE Bloodchief/MindCrank combo.
Here's a trim of what will most likely be in there along with choices I have.
20 Mountain
Creatures
4 Goblin Guide
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Fireblast
4 Magma Jet
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Hellspark Elemental
4 Keldon Marauders
Spells
3 Smash to Smithereens
3 Volcanic Fallout
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
2 Anarchy
3 Sulfuric Vortex
3 Price of Progress
3 Rachet Bomb
3 Null Rod
4 Tormod's Crypt
Had trouble keeping up with Affinity though.
20 Mountain
Creatures
4 Hellspark Elemental
4 Spark Elemental
3 Mogg Fanatic
4 Goblin Guide
Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Fireblast
3 Price of Progress
2 Quest for Pure Flame
3 Smash to Smithereens
3 Volcanic Fallout
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Keldon Marauders
1 Quest for Pure Flame
Match 1 High Tide:
Game 1: I roll high, he dead draws enough for me to burn him down T4.
Game 2: He goes first drops Candle T1, I manage to go off 1 turn before he does.
Game 3: He goes off and makes me draw 50+ cards.
Not really sure what Burn can do against High Tide other than maybe REB their high tide or maybe Pyrostatic Pillar. Lucky Win
1-0-0
Match 2 U/B Control
Game 1: Get him down to 2 Life, He Jace TMS's and I lose.
Game 2: Get him down to 4 Life, I have PoP in hand and let him Jace my top card and topdeck to draw out all the counters. PoP wins.
Game 3: T4 Burn Rush.
He had almost 90% Non Basic lands so PoP was MVP. Baited quite a lot of counters with Hellspark's and 1 cmc spells Hellsparks forcing him to take dmg, him fetching worked well in my favor as did a dismember paying 4 life.
2-0-0
Match 3 Affinity (With Mox Opal, No Ravager, Glimpse of Nature, Berserk)
Game 1: He got 2 signal pest onto the field and proceeded to rush me into Cranial + Berserk. Ow
Game 2: Sided in Fallout, Smash, saw smash, didn't stop him from combo'ing.
Game 3: Got 2 Fallout's and a Smash. Waited for him to combo, Fallout 1, wait for new Creature for Cranial smashed it, burned him down.
Fallout and Smash are nice but I die on average T4-5? If I don't have fallout in hand I autolose. Shattering Spree / Shatterstorm sure sound good in this matchup maybe even more Pyroclastic Pillar. Those Berserk's really really hurt :/. Glimpse makes it even faster.
2-1-0
Match 4: Myr Token's
Game 1: Dirty T1 Rift, T2 Rift + Guide, T3 Rift + Rift, T4 Chain, Spike T5 EoT Bolt -> Fireblast
Game 2: Dirty Dirty Dirty. T1 Guide, T2 Guide T3 Guide + Guide, T4 Bolt, Chain, Fireblast.
Nothing to say about this match but that his clock was slower than mines, he was playing Cloudpost/Glimmer Myr's and I beat him to it.
3-1-0
All in all a good experience though Quest is probably not the best thing to put in the deck hence why I Sb'ed it out most of the time. (Is kinda funny when a bolt does 6 and they are forced to counter it then I FB their face xD)
4 DragonSkull Summit
4 Tainted Peak
12 Swamp
1 Batterskull
3 BloodChief Accension
4 Megrim
4 Liliana's Caress
4 Blightning
4 Terminate
2 Blackmail
2 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Bump in the Night
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Burning Inquiry
4 Dark Ritual
2 Rakdos Carnarium
2 Blackmail
2 Duress
2 Inquisition
4 Despise
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Mindcrank
1 Liliana Vess
Night Soil is for reoccuring creatures some friends play (Hellspark, Vengevines, etc.) dont see them much so i can throw them into SB. As for sprout i usually use it for primal growth but i think ironfist would work too.
-2 Verdeloth
+4 ironfist
-2 Gaea's Blessing
SB:
2 Night Soil
2 Beast Within
2 Back to Nature
As for the fungal cards i think personally i would need to revamp the deck into something that uses doubling season to approach the speed of this one currently.
18x Forest
Creatures
2x Thelonite Hermit
4x Overgrown Battlement
4x Vine Trellis
2x Verdeloth the Ancient
2x Vigor
4x Traproot Kami
3x Mycoloth
2x Saproling Symbiosis
2x Primal Growth
2x Nature's Lore
2x Gaea's Blessing
3x Green Sun's Zenith
Instants
4x Sprout
Enchantments
2x Night Soil
Artifacts
2x Akroma's Memorial
2x Elixir of Immortality
2x Eldrazi Monument
4x Krosan Grip
I realize that this is still pretty clunky and it has a lot of weaknesses "Pro-Green, Token Wipe, Wall Destruction, Etc" :<
Right now im thinking of adding Back to Nature in it as i play with people with leyline of punishment (akroma does nothing) or maybe Naturalize too. Bouncing, Removal, Burn is also there. Any suggestions as to how to avoid getting all my walls terminated (two people don't like my walls so its not uncommon for them to Swords to Plowshares and Terminates them which leaves me wide open)
18 Forest
Creatures
4 Overgrown Battlement
4 Vine Trellis
2 Vigor
4 Traproot Kami
3 Mycoloth
Artifacts
2 Akroma's Memorial
2 Elixir of Immortality
2 Parallel Lives
4 Fists of Ironwood
Instants
4 Sprout
2 Naturalize
Sorceries
4 Primal Growth
2 Saproling Symbiosis
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Thelonite Hermit
2 Verdeloth the Ancient
2 Gaea's Blessing
2 Eldrazi Monument
2 Back to Nature
2 Scatter the Seeds
2 Naturalize
2 Night Soil
2 Beast Within