If they weren't legally forced to keep it, they wouldn't act so skittish when talking about it. As I understand, promissory estoppel laws are involved and enforceable thanks to Wizard's official reprint policy. They've made a public promise to never again reprint cards on the list, functionally or otherwise, and estoppel laws are holding them to that promise. Reverberate isn't a technical violation but many see it as a spiritual violation, and legendary equivalents of the old ABUR duals would be in the same boat. Not to mention it feels like a poor reason to make lands legendary; the supertype is supposed to be used on cards with a distinct storyline flavor and lands that tap for two colors and enter untapped are hardly deserving of a legendary distinction. You want legendary duals, how about Guild lands that ETBT and have secondary abilities?
Ah, but it isn't actually Promissory Estoppel. They have promised no economic gain nor business deals. Which is what the legal definition of Promissory Estoppel deals with. However, the reserved list is Policy, and policies can change. That said, as I mentioned in my previous post, I respect them for keeping it, even though they are technically not beholden to it. Heck, they even made a change to it several years ago, removing all uncommons and a handful of rares from it (so they could reprint clone.)
The only reason they adhere to it, is because they made a promise, and I respect them for it.
I don't see why keeping a promise for keeping the promise sake is an inherently good thing. If I'd make a promise to kick a puppy every day, would that be respectful, if i kept doing it for decades? I think whether this deserves respect depends on the promise, not on the fact that they keep it.
Not even remotely the same thing, and you know it. The reserved list does not harm anyone. It is annoying yes, but hardly harmful.
A company that makes a promise, and sticks to said promise is a rare thing.
There's such a thing called hyperbole, and you know it.
And just because something is a rare thing also doesn't make it inherently good. A panda turd is also a rare thing, I still wouldn't want one.
If history has any bearing, a savvy magic player might be wise to consider that panda turd if it was a mythic rare from a poorly received/under-opened third set - especially if it cost 2cc or less and it doesn't die to removal. Just saying that magic players are fickle bunch.
Night of the Soul's Betrayal is very good against large amount of decks (So good it can't actually be used sometimes) and some writers such as Sam Black have mentioned Curse of Death's Hold as another choice for decks that are themselves weaker to the effect. It has some pretty good uses in Siege Rhino -decks, letting your creatures win mirrors, killing 1/1 flying spirit tokens and stopping both Infect and Twin cold. The one extra mana is a problem though, but I think that if the effect becomes more widely used, Curse will also gain some value.
I personally have trouble seeing either card as the trump against Twin, as resolving a 4 or 5 mana spell is pretty rough, but just having access to one might make the Twin decks need to rush a bit, making Decay and removal better. I did get two foil Curses just to have them, if the card will become playable.
Urza's Lands have also been gaining for several months. I first thought that it was just the Aq versions, but it seems that all versions have been going up in small increments. Now even the 9th edition lands are hitting 2$ on TCG mid. I just wanted to mention this, as the cards have so many prints that it's hard to see the full picture, when one week Claw Mine from Chronicles goes up and the next week 5th edition copies and some random art or piece from Aq goes up week later and so on. For the longest time I thought those movements as just being noice from random low supply cards, but it's been going on for way too long to be just that. Altough it's possible that for Aq the small moves are from somebody buying 4 of certain art s/he likes, forcing the price up maybe 5 %, only to slowly creep down only to go up again when the next player likes that specific art.
Still I actually like the Aq copies as a nice investemnt if one wishes to play Tron decks. Those should not go down even with a new printing and several of the common pictures are still just 4$, when white bordered arts are already 2$.
With Karn and Emrakul in MM2, it seems only fitting that the tron lands would be included. The only one's I would invest in are the original black bordered ones or the foil one from 8th/9th.
If you like that one, you should see Sunforger. This is almost definately a Commander or TL effect (you can tell by the price disparity for the foil version :eek:).
This is a good card. Is it very good? Maybe. Prowess is a solid mechanic that has reared it's head in formats beyond standard. A prowess card that doesn't lose it's pump at the end of turn...
People who are saying this is a bad card don't really play magic (casual as well as formats other than standard). Or maybe they don't remember bad cards or bad times.
A bad card card in standard isn't a bad card (I would try and hyperlink one of the boat-load of obviousness, but the people who this post is intended for already know what I'm saying).
This should somehow be abusable in modern with Life from the Loam. Maybe a nice finisher for an Assault-Loam variant. Or maybe some UG tron variant that also utilizes Academy Ruins to get back Wurmcoil.
I really hope this gets character expansion or booster packs... Getting figurines of all of the Planeswalkers would be nice, and they wouldn't take up nearly as much space as the Funko figures (and they'd probably have better paint jobs :p).
InB4 this directly competes with commander if they spend too much time/energy in it's development. Nothing is supposed to compete with the cards.
I agree that they could gently and lovingly milk the cash from our wallets a la FFG with x-wing and descent.
I would still be more comfortable with a time honored MTGS patron's (smaller business in the industry with no ties to big business) opinion compared to *i'mwathchingyourinternetusagepatternsdataincorporated.com* opinion. Controlling knowledge is controlling power.
Not disagreeing with your points. But I'm asking a chicken or egg question. If cards like goyf weren't so profitable/expensive, there might not be widespread counterfeits?
Those black marketeers obviously are the villains; but are they responsible for everything? It surely has to start somewhere.
If the game wasn't so good/established/supported and overall generally treated with exquisite attention on the part of WoTC, then no, I do not think that any card would be worth anything and there would be no room for black marketeers.
The only reason to have this discussion is because of the intricate ecosystem that WoTC has attempted to sustain and balance. The maintenance of that ecosystem involves having some cards just out of reach. People really have a need to strive toward something just out of reach to really appreciate it. If we could all have what ever we wanted exactly when we wanted, there would be nothing left to want. I think we're designed to continually want what we can't have. Its buy specific design that there are things in this game that most of us can't have. People don't want to want things, they need to want things.
It's as profound as that scenario in the matrix where Smith is describing the first iteration of the matrix that the minds of humans rejected.
IMHO: The egg came first. The pre-chicken precursor laid the first chicken egg.
I'm with AvatarofBro. Everyone wants to own goyfs, but not everyone wants to play with goyfs. It's really hard to degrade someone who truly wants to play the game but cannot afford it. Calling a cheater is a different ball game. The same for anyone who owns legitimate goyfs; they're cheating too? For being rich, for owning it way before it spiked, just because goyfs beat you over and over again?
It's wizards' fault as well. If prices of certain cards are so expensive, that it creates a black market of proxies, who's fault is it? The people who try to proliferate from its scarcity, or the company that decides its print run? On top of that, Wizards must know that there're secondary forces that limits the ease of access to these cards, namely large LGS that control the cardflow through staggered price setting. Hoard mentality must also be taken into account.
Wizards needs to have this "unofficial" price threshold within their works. If a card gets arbitrarily too expensive (goyf) or is expensive because it's scarce (dual), they need to revise their reprint policy. They could ease the issue with the former by reprinting, or the best method I'd say is to ban outright.
Kind of like the scenario with the National Treasury and a 1$. I know this is a game but the premise is well understood. There is a very clear right and wrong here that transcends this game. Fraud is fraud. Stealing intellectual property is still stealing even if it's not a physical "thing". The only reason we care about this game is because of all the support WoTC puts into it. What I mean is that if this was some indy game with almost no support and no body playing, nobody would care about "proxies". You might just play the game for fun and be happy that your friends have cards to play too. This is a scenario where a market has been (carefully) crafted to ensure the longevity of the game. I'm always down to play with people with proxies. If you really just wanted to play the game you might proxy up a set of the cards you were interested in and play. This issue here is that the real cards have some real value (as determined by the intended consumer). No one is forced to compete in sanctioned tournaments so it's not like were counterfeiting money to buy bread/food. WoTC designs the product, supports the events, and pays the winners. How is it at all cool to say "I just want to play the game" to justify using unsanctioned proxies in sanctioned events. That is clearly stealing.
The people who counterfeit currency are not trying to buy bread to survive.
I definitely picked up 4 of the geist promos after the B&R announcement on pure speculation so I could have a second set for Modern use. I expect geist to slowly climb over time but with the latest B&R news, I became concerned that his price would climb more steeply for a little bit until the new metagame settles.
MM2 was designed purely from a draft perspective, with little/no input on card values. MM1 had both value and fun drafting. What if MM2 just has fun drafting, as an experiment on what the public will buy. As in, can they do a cash grab just on old ideas or does it have to be a cash grab on old ideas and card values?
Just a thought.
If that was the case, and there wasn't more value than in a standard set, why do the booster have a 9,99$ MRSP? And why would anybody pay such a premium for a product, that's basically a one-shot expirience (limited) and after that you can throw all the card into the same bin were all the pillarfield oxes already are.
We all know with value in it, it will sell better. Why would WotC experiment with their income?
You did see the Modern Event deck with MSRP of 75$, right? Have they let this cash cow blind them?
WhOever priced The event deck could also be priCing modern masters 2.
If history has any bearing, a savvy magic player might be wise to consider that panda turd if it was a mythic rare from a poorly received/under-opened third set - especially if it cost 2cc or less and it doesn't die to removal. Just saying that magic players are fickle bunch.
With Karn and Emrakul in MM2, it seems only fitting that the tron lands would be included. The only one's I would invest in are the original black bordered ones or the foil one from 8th/9th.
People who are saying this is a bad card don't really play magic (casual as well as formats other than standard). Or maybe they don't remember bad cards or bad times.
A bad card card in standard isn't a bad card (I would try and hyperlink one of the boat-load of obviousness, but the people who this post is intended for already know what I'm saying).
InB4 this directly competes with commander if they spend too much time/energy in it's development. Nothing is supposed to compete with the cards.
I agree that they could gently and lovingly milk the cash from our wallets a la FFG with x-wing and descent.
If the game wasn't so good/established/supported and overall generally treated with exquisite attention on the part of WoTC, then no, I do not think that any card would be worth anything and there would be no room for black marketeers.
The only reason to have this discussion is because of the intricate ecosystem that WoTC has attempted to sustain and balance. The maintenance of that ecosystem involves having some cards just out of reach. People really have a need to strive toward something just out of reach to really appreciate it. If we could all have what ever we wanted exactly when we wanted, there would be nothing left to want. I think we're designed to continually want what we can't have. Its buy specific design that there are things in this game that most of us can't have. People don't want to want things, they need to want things.
It's as profound as that scenario in the matrix where Smith is describing the first iteration of the matrix that the minds of humans rejected.
IMHO: The egg came first. The pre-chicken precursor laid the first chicken egg.
Kind of like the scenario with the National Treasury and a 1$. I know this is a game but the premise is well understood. There is a very clear right and wrong here that transcends this game. Fraud is fraud. Stealing intellectual property is still stealing even if it's not a physical "thing". The only reason we care about this game is because of all the support WoTC puts into it. What I mean is that if this was some indy game with almost no support and no body playing, nobody would care about "proxies". You might just play the game for fun and be happy that your friends have cards to play too. This is a scenario where a market has been (carefully) crafted to ensure the longevity of the game. I'm always down to play with people with proxies. If you really just wanted to play the game you might proxy up a set of the cards you were interested in and play. This issue here is that the real cards have some real value (as determined by the intended consumer). No one is forced to compete in sanctioned tournaments so it's not like were counterfeiting money to buy bread/food. WoTC designs the product, supports the events, and pays the winners. How is it at all cool to say "I just want to play the game" to justify using unsanctioned proxies in sanctioned events. That is clearly stealing.
The people who counterfeit currency are not trying to buy bread to survive.
Am I just rambling or is anybody feeling me here?
You did see the Modern Event deck with MSRP of 75$, right? Have they let this cash cow blind them?
WhOever priced The event deck could also be priCing modern masters 2.