MOAR COUNTERS.
Yeah, I like this card quite a bit.
One nice quality compared to other land fall creatures is if you top deck it later in the game, immediatly activating the ability becomes a real prospect in the right deck.
Nissa, walking Ballista, hydroid krasis etc.
Think ya'll are underestimating it, but ehhh , once it was pointed out that it doesn't stop ETB's and I thought about that more, I'm no longer testing the card.
FWIW if the instant speed wrath mode was 5 mana it would be a slam dunk and that is a hill I would die on , but also wouldn't waste time arguing since that's not the card
I guess I dont see why you would counter your own Solitude? As for Valki, when you cast a double sided card for free, you can choose which side. Works with Bring to Light as well.
I think so you get the 3/2 body.
Evoke solitude on their turn, counter plot it, then cast it from exile on your turn for free.
seems like a LOT of setup for a 3/2 body lifelink but it’s still a cool interaction.
I think this card is deceptively powerful, but it’s hard to evaluate. Very annoying in a tempo shell against slower decks and good against counter magic.
I've played this a lot since it was spoiled. I underestimated it.
I see it as blue's cut down (slightly better) , which is a cheap effect that blue really wants.
You often trade up 1-3 pips in mana , which more than makes up for it being dead occasionally.
It's great in decks that are slower/reactive as they have other answers for problems this doesn't solve, and can make up for the tempo lost for drawing cards with the mana effeciency of this card.
As far as cost effectiveness goes, I'd argue a 5 mana instant speed wrath is on par with a 4 mana sorcery speed one.
Not sure if it was a typo or if you just got the cost mixed up mid thought (which is understandable because the template is very confusing), but it's a 6 mana wrath, not 5 mana. 5 mana Wrath would definitely make it interesting, but even then I don't think it'd get there for me. Overall I think this is much worse than Touch the Spirit Realm, which does a lot of what the second mode wants to do while also giving you a blink effect.
Sorry for not being clear.
The logic was
5 mana instant wrath = 4 mana sorcery wrath, 4 mana sorcery wrath is cubebale card.
Pay 1 extra mana (6 mana) on the wrath mode for all the extra utility, relative to the equivalent of an already proven, cubeable card.
This is one of the better "combat tricks", but I think this is a bit worse than Legolas's Quick Reflexes, and these type of effects need to be at that level, IMO.
shutting off a powerful ETB (palace jailer/white plume adventurer) OR a 6 mana INSTANT speed wrath. If you pay 7 you can even save one of your creatures or destroy indestructable/dies trigger creatures on your opponents side.
This doeesn't shut off ETBs, it doesn't stick around like Dress Down does.
Ah, woops, right. Makes it worse. Still think it's pretty good (but nothing special)
Hard to compare it to other combat tricks when one of the modes is an instant speed 6 mana wrath.
As far as cost effectiveness goes, I'd argue a 5 mana instant speed wrath is on par with a 4 mana sorcery speed one.
So you are effectively paying an extra mana on a wrath mode for a high amount of utility that'll be useful when an expensive wrath is too slow.
That's how I comparitvely evaluate it (it's hard). You don't want to play this card in fast decks, you want to play it in slow decks that have some creatures, this is much more similar to wrath than a combat trick in that respect.
Killing all constructs, protecting a creature, shutting off a powerful ETB (palace jailer/white plume adventurer)
OR a 6 mana INSTANT speed wrath. If you pay 7 you can even save one of your creatures or destroy indestructable/dies trigger creatures on your opponents side.
Comaparing each mode by itself in isolation is an easy way to under-rate this card. The option to have multiple high-upside/uncommonly wanted modes that are good in totally different scenarios is a very good quality for an overcosted versatile modal card to have.
It’s Card disadvantage, but it can generate a big mana advantage , card selection and has a powerful ultimate (so it can’t be left alone).
Additional combo support for bring to light with valki and delayed blast fireball.
Good with Wheel of Fortune/Timetwister. If you have a lot of mana, hardcast them. If you don't, use jace's ability and then cast them the next turn with all your mana up to potentially combo.
Not being castable early is a BIG downside and reduces it's combo potential. Waiting with the cards you suspend for a big explosive turn when he ultimates is a very slow plan, considering you can't even start it until turn 4. You'd need to play it in a deck with a controlling element with a fair bit of disruption for that reason.
Yeah, seems pretty great.
I like how much this card scales in power with deck configuration, but is still pretty solid card even in decks that are mixed creature/non creature that don’t abuse it.
one of the most powerful cards in a underworld breach build around.
I can see cutting a card for power level but not because of boredom, unless your group is fine with playing with worse cards. I would think most players would want good cards in their decks.
I think shaking things up is a good idea if you're not updating from new sets. As for myself, I'll be taking out baleful Strix.
Do whatever you want as long as you and your playgroup is having fun!
Novelty and change is something I value, but quite a bit lower than overall power level.
When you look at the bottom 100 or so cards in your cube, the difference in power level between the bottom 100 and the next 200-300 cards you aren't playing are very small. I enjoy mixing things up around the fringes. Sacricing 1% power level for a new experience or a "test" is easily worth it.
Baleful strix is the #1 dimir card at the moment, so I wouldn't mess with it , even if I was "bored".
The one big downside to the combo is that our opponent can exile your entire board by removing the Worldgorger Dragon in response to its ETB trigger, so this combo ain't for the faint of heart. Ideally you pair this with a lot of discard effects / Teferi, Time Raveler, counter magic, etc. Luckily the combo itself is cheap so it's not too hard to leave up a counter. I think it's worth testing out since the only real parasitic parts of the combo are Worldgorger Dragon / Abdel Adrian / Bazaar of Baghdad , everything else are just random goodstuff cards that you're probably already (can be) playing.
This kills the combo for me. In MTG's beginning, the spells that could have stopped this combo were far rarer, since there weren't as much instant speed hard removal spells except for counterspells - Terror and Swords to Plowshares were the peak of it.
Now, however, the variety of cubable instant kill spells is astounding, and many also exile, which kills the option of a comeback with the combo. White has 5, the newest of which is Get Lost, Black has a ton, the newest of which is Bitter Triumph, and even Blue has Dress Down. This makes the odds of disrupting the combo far greater.
While I agree this is a big downside of the combo , there are a fair number of ways to protect the combo too.
Discard spells, counter spells and legolas' quick reflexes. Gitaxian probe to see what's up.
If a white/black deck has mana open and you aren't forced to go for it, it'll often be correct to wait until they tap out, or you draw protection.
cool!
Not sure how it'll play out. It seems at least novel, fun and powerful enough to be competitive.
Seems hard to put together a consistent-ish version of the combo, but definitely not impossible...
What I wonder is if it's worth jumping through the deck building hoops for. If you have multiple enchantment based reanimation spells.. is it worth drafing/playing the engines/finishers instead of supplemental cards better suited to reanimator?
How often is worldgorger better than another tier 2 reanimation target (given you have to make deck building concessions for it)?
My guess is it IS worth it.. Very little intuition on how many peices of the combo are required to turn the combo from janky/inconsistent to strong.
The combination of the power maxxed mode at high mana costs
and versatility at the mid-mana costs makes this card strong.
It competes with other more expensive blue cards, as you can only justify a few of them in your decks, but I think It does so favorably.
I always thought cancel variants were under-rated, but as power crept and curves dropped, I couldn't justify them.
This is the best one by a lot.
Yeah, I like this card quite a bit.
One nice quality compared to other land fall creatures is if you top deck it later in the game, immediatly activating the ability becomes a real prospect in the right deck.
Nissa, walking Ballista, hydroid krasis etc.
FWIW if the instant speed wrath mode was 5 mana it would be a slam dunk and that is a hill I would die on , but also wouldn't waste time arguing since that's not the card
I think so you get the 3/2 body.
Evoke solitude on their turn, counter plot it, then cast it from exile on your turn for free.
seems like a LOT of setup for a 3/2 body lifelink but it’s still a cool interaction.
I think this card is deceptively powerful, but it’s hard to evaluate. Very annoying in a tempo shell against slower decks and good against counter magic.
I see it as blue's cut down (slightly better) , which is a cheap effect that blue really wants.
You often trade up 1-3 pips in mana , which more than makes up for it being dead occasionally.
It's great in decks that are slower/reactive as they have other answers for problems this doesn't solve, and can make up for the tempo lost for drawing cards with the mana effeciency of this card.
~ Top 100 cube card imo.
See above posts for reasoning, nothing really particularly surprising.
It's a ultra high variance card so opinions will vary.
It's good in basically any deck that is proactive and can cast it.
Sorry for not being clear.
The logic was
5 mana instant wrath = 4 mana sorcery wrath, 4 mana sorcery wrath is cubebale card.
Pay 1 extra mana (6 mana) on the wrath mode for all the extra utility, relative to the equivalent of an already proven, cubeable card.
Ah, woops, right. Makes it worse. Still think it's pretty good (but nothing special)
Hard to compare it to other combat tricks when one of the modes is an instant speed 6 mana wrath.
As far as cost effectiveness goes, I'd argue a 5 mana instant speed wrath is on par with a 4 mana sorcery speed one.
So you are effectively paying an extra mana on a wrath mode for a high amount of utility that'll be useful when an expensive wrath is too slow.
That's how I comparitvely evaluate it (it's hard). You don't want to play this card in fast decks, you want to play it in slow decks that have some creatures, this is much more similar to wrath than a combat trick in that respect.
Edit: It doesn't shut down ETB's
I think this card is interesting.
Killing all constructs, protecting a creature, shutting off a powerful ETB (palace jailer/white plume adventurer)
OR a 6 mana INSTANT speed wrath. If you pay 7 you can even save one of your creatures or destroy indestructable/dies trigger creatures on your opponents side.
Comaparing each mode by itself in isolation is an easy way to under-rate this card. The option to have multiple high-upside/uncommonly wanted modes that are good in totally different scenarios is a very good quality for an overcosted versatile modal card to have.
Hard to evaluate, but I think it's worth testing.
It’s Card disadvantage, but it can generate a big mana advantage , card selection and has a powerful ultimate (so it can’t be left alone).
Additional combo support for bring to light with valki and delayed blast fireball.
Good with Wheel of Fortune/Timetwister. If you have a lot of mana, hardcast them. If you don't, use jace's ability and then cast them the next turn with all your mana up to potentially combo.
Not being castable early is a BIG downside and reduces it's combo potential. Waiting with the cards you suspend for a big explosive turn when he ultimates is a very slow plan, considering you can't even start it until turn 4. You'd need to play it in a deck with a controlling element with a fair bit of disruption for that reason.
Hard to evaluate, but has sleeper potential.
not as good as titan of industry with reanimate, natural order or as a hardcast, but MUCH better with sneak/flash.
the density of broken flash interactions is so high right now.
I like how much this card scales in power with deck configuration, but is still pretty solid card even in decks that are mixed creature/non creature that don’t abuse it.
one of the most powerful cards in a underworld breach build around.
Do whatever you want as long as you and your playgroup is having fun!
Novelty and change is something I value, but quite a bit lower than overall power level.
When you look at the bottom 100 or so cards in your cube, the difference in power level between the bottom 100 and the next 200-300 cards you aren't playing are very small. I enjoy mixing things up around the fringes. Sacricing 1% power level for a new experience or a "test" is easily worth it.
Baleful strix is the #1 dimir card at the moment, so I wouldn't mess with it , even if I was "bored".
While I agree this is a big downside of the combo , there are a fair number of ways to protect the combo too.
Discard spells, counter spells and legolas' quick reflexes. Gitaxian probe to see what's up.
If a white/black deck has mana open and you aren't forced to go for it, it'll often be correct to wait until they tap out, or you draw protection.
Not sure how it'll play out. It seems at least novel, fun and powerful enough to be competitive.
Seems hard to put together a consistent-ish version of the combo, but definitely not impossible...
What I wonder is if it's worth jumping through the deck building hoops for. If you have multiple enchantment based reanimation spells.. is it worth drafing/playing the engines/finishers instead of supplemental cards better suited to reanimator?
How often is worldgorger better than another tier 2 reanimation target (given you have to make deck building concessions for it)?
My guess is it IS worth it.. Very little intuition on how many peices of the combo are required to turn the combo from janky/inconsistent to strong.
If anyone tests, curious how the experiences are.