I would cut Doomed Necromancer or Slum Reaper. Reaper is an overcosted Fleshbag, and Doomed Necromancer is a meh reanimate effect on a stick.
I'm thinking that between those two Doomed Necromancer is probably the first cut. The lack of haste makes it less effective than the immediate effect of Slum Reaper. So I think that I'll cut it for Awakening Zone to come back in.
I pose a new question to everyone. I was thinking about this at work and realized a card that would work with a lot of the cards in the deck. Strionic Resonator interacts in a relevant way with approximately 28 of the cards in my deck, but especially Meren of Clan Nel Toth. For two mana, I can get a second experience counter early. For two mana, I can revive two creatures at the end of my turn. For two mana, Skullclamp lets me draw a total of four cards. For two mana, Grave Pact can make other players sacrifice two creatures instead of one. Reclamation Sage becomes 4G to destroy two artifacts or enchantments, Farhaven Elf becomes 4G to get me two lands into play tapped, Kokusho, the Evening Star costs 2 when it dies to gain me an even bigger life swing, Avenger of Zendikar can cost 7GG for twice as many tokens or 2 during landfall to pump my tokens twice, etc. I've never run Strionic Resonator before, so it could just be winmore.
Also, I found a copy of Cavern of Souls, so that's in the deck now. Even better, I swiped my copy of Bayou from a different (less used) deck. So that gets to jump into the deck. Additionally, I grabbed a Dust Bowl from another deck. I'm removing Shizo, Death's Storehouse, as it only had four targets. Now that I have another strong self-sacrificing of my own land effect, I'm thinking that Crucible of Worlds should be considered again. What I'd remove for it I don't yet know...
I wouldnt ever cut Awakening Zone. It's valuable as hell, and I bet it's because you're not abusing it!
You would be correct, I'm not abusing it. But that's mostly because I haven't played the deck yet. Sleeving is boring, so I haven't completely sleeved it yet (and some cards are still in the mail). As for your list, I'm happy to say that 4.5/6 of your points are why I had it in the list originally. I don't have Contamination only because my group really hates hard-lock stax cards (so no Smokestack type cards either). I also didn't put Pernicious Deed in because I assumed my creatures (and the tutors for them) would be able to help me keep board control. It does warrant discussion though, so what do you think about Pernicious Deed in my list? Also, I would add a 7th point to your list in "Skullclamp fodder". So now that I've already pulled it out of the deck, what should be removed to put it back in?
Unfortunately I don't have any spare copies of Bitterblossom, but a token generator like that feels like it would be more at home in a full-on stax build. It doesn't seem to work so well in my "minimal stax" build. As for From Beyond, it would appear to be decent. The only thing is that I think Awakening Zone is better for this deck. Being that one mana smaller means it can hit before Meren of Clan Nel Toth, make a token the turn you play her, then sac it whenever you want for the exp counter while she's out. From Beyond would have to hit the turn after Meren of Clan Nel Toth (or delay her), only to get +1 power over the spawn tokens. I don't really think that I have room for both, so the cheaper version seems to fit my needs better.
No changes to list for this post, but I'd like to hear everyone's opinion on what to remove to put Awakening Zone in.
I've often found Sylvan Safekeeper to be useful in theory but poor in practice.
Hmm. I see. I definitely agree that it sounds good in theory (this is actually my first time considering it for a deck). It and Bazaar of Baghdad were the two biggest reasons why I had considered Crucible of Worlds and Life from the Loam. I don't know how it will actually run, but if I'm putting in Green Sun's Zenith, it seems like it'd be a decent card to leave in. 1G to allow my Meren of Clan Nel Toth to avoid spot removal seems even better (and others as per the list that gromgrom mentioned).
Awakening Zone is another, much more popular, choice that I'm generally unimpressed with during games.
Now that you've mentioned it, Awakening Zone does seem rather unimpressive. Four mana to always have one sac outlet a turn sounds good at first glance, but now that you have me thinking it seems really slow. It's probably better to have something like a Spore Frog (which provides fog presence), or even Green Sun's Zenith (which I have now been sold on) over it.
I personally think Safekeeper would be okay at least, if OP kept in Crucible of Worlds and kept the Life from the Loam engine. If you're gonna focus on Bazaar of Baghdad, I think it can be worthwhile and is found via Green Sun Zenith
After considering the above, I'm sold on Green Sun's Zenith. Additionally, Bone Shredder seems worth less than its admission price. I originally had it in there for the Echo (so it could sac itself for an experience counter) and one toughness for Skullclamp. But I now realize that these reasons conflict with each other. If it's in for the Echo, it can't really be in for Skullclamp use (as it would revive at the end of turn - past the chance to equip, meaning I'd have to pay the Echo or let it die again). Instead I'll put Spore Frog in, as it can be a experience farmer (turn one of Meren of Clan Nel Toth being out sac Spore Frog, then revive Spore Frog) and also Skullclamp fodder.
In that case, what would you suggest? My non-creature package seems pretty tight (well, Deadbridge Chant is a personal fun choice rather than powerful one) and my creature levels seem decent.
The biggest reason I'm hesitant to put in Birthing Pod, is that my creature curve is rather wonky. Three 1's, four 2's, ten 3's, four 4's, two 5's, six 6's, three 7's, and two 8's. This doesn't seem to fit the kind of smooth curve that Birthing Pod would want. As for Green Sun's Zenith, how would it benefit me more than some of the other cards in the deck? I know that it can help in the early game, but how is it better than, say, Victimize?
I think Loam and Crucible don't belong here, unless you love those cards.
Hmm. I think that I can see your point. From my decklist, I have nine cards (Bazaar of Baghdad, Blighted Woodland, Strip Mine, Verdant Catacombs, Sylvan Safekeeper, Satyr Wayfinder, Crop Rotation, Grisly Salvage, and Deadbridge Chant) that can put my lands in the grave. While it may not be the best to include both of those for nine cards, I think that it is somewhat reasonable to include at least one. I think that Life from the Loam is the better of the two, due to being able to self-mill myself 3. Unfortunately I need to skip out of using Wasteland and Dust Bowl (due to not having any copies). I do love Oversold Cemetery, but unfortunately I think having my creatures in the grave is more valuable to the deck. Phyrexian Reclamation is more for instant speed emergency "save X creatures from my grave from grave hate", which is why I have that in the deck instead.
Additionally, I'm thinking the self-mill from Grisly Salvage isn't a super relevant effect. I'm sure it's a decent effect and all, but I'm thinking that I'd rather gain some card draw in reusable form - via Elvish Visionary.
Hello everyone. For a while now I had been looking for a deck to put my Bazaar of Baghdad into. When I saw Meren, I knew that I had found my deck. Thanks to the help of the board here, I've finally got a decklist together to post. Without further adeu, here is Meren's Bazaar Adventure.
Now I'm sure that the deck can be improved, so I'm open to all ideas. All I ask is that you provide a reason as to why you believe a certain card should be in. It would also be a great help if you mention which card(s) you believe should be removed (and why).
Thank you for the input everybody. I'll make sure slot it in my deck for sure.
I suppose a good follow-up question would be: Which of the common (in Meren) self-mill effects is the weakest? I have one card to cut since Bazaar of Baghdad will directly replace it. The common three are:
Mulch - Tied for the lowest with revealing four, but might add multiple lands to the hand Satyr Wayfinder - Tied for the lowest with revealing four, only can add one land to the hand. May be reused with Maren and can be Skullclamp fodder Grisly Salvage - The highest with revealing five, may keep a creature or land (or none if you so choose)
My thought is that Mulch will be the weakest (one less card revealed than Grisly Salvage and not reusable like Satyr Wayfinder), but I'd like to hear what everyone thinks. Thanks in advance!
Hello everyone. I was building my Meren of Clan Nel Toth deck when I came across my copy of Bazaar of Baghdad. As a lot of the decks I researched contained self-mill such as Mulch, Grisly Salvage, and Satyr Wayfinder, I was wondering if Bazaar of Baghdad would have a place in the deck. Now I know that those cards usually at least break even (or can do better in the case of Mulch) whereas Bazaar of Baghdad will always be a -1. Not to mention it would take your land drop one turn (note: it would occupy a spell slot in the deck if I use it).
So I was wondering what the board thought about Bazaar of Baghdad in a Meren of Clan Nel Toth deck. Is it a good idea? A bad idea? I'm looking for opinions before I finalize my deck and buy the missing pieces. Thanks!
Have you considered Door to Nothingness? Not fantastic for really strong EDH groups, but loads of fun when you can just tell somebody to "die". Yeah it only hits one player, but add in Rings of Brighthearth (which I think you should use with your general if you have a decent elemental package anyways) and two people die for 2WWUUBBRRGG. Watch out for effects that can redirect targets though (though sometimes those stories are the most fun). Again, only for less strong metas. If your meta is very strong, I'd say go with Hallow36's suggestion of Legacy Weapon.
My most unique deck has to be "Nyx, False God" (Karona, False God). It's themed on the game Persona 3 with the general altered to be Nyx Avatar. All of the cards have to be somehow related to the game, such as Finest Hour representing Aigis and Athena, Legacy Weapon representing Atropos, Darksteel Plate representing Siegfried, Door to Nothingness representing Alice, and Propaganda representing Jin and Takaya spreading "the cult of Nyx" flyers. I'm currently in the process of getting these altered (with game quotes for those that have room) to show the different characters and personas from the game.
It completely depends on your meta whether infinite combos are accepted. For example, in mine they are accepted for one or two games in a row before everybody pulls out their strongest decks and all team up to destroy you. We like playing our fun decks more than our strong ones.
As for your comment about Magosi, the Waterveil, it won't work. Magosi bounces to your hand to get the extra turn, so adding extra counters to it won't do a thing.
I pose a new question to everyone. I was thinking about this at work and realized a card that would work with a lot of the cards in the deck. Strionic Resonator interacts in a relevant way with approximately 28 of the cards in my deck, but especially Meren of Clan Nel Toth. For two mana, I can get a second experience counter early. For two mana, I can revive two creatures at the end of my turn. For two mana, Skullclamp lets me draw a total of four cards. For two mana, Grave Pact can make other players sacrifice two creatures instead of one. Reclamation Sage becomes 4G to destroy two artifacts or enchantments, Farhaven Elf becomes 4G to get me two lands into play tapped, Kokusho, the Evening Star costs 2 when it dies to gain me an even bigger life swing, Avenger of Zendikar can cost 7GG for twice as many tokens or 2 during landfall to pump my tokens twice, etc. I've never run Strionic Resonator before, so it could just be winmore.
Also, I found a copy of Cavern of Souls, so that's in the deck now. Even better, I swiped my copy of Bayou from a different (less used) deck. So that gets to jump into the deck. Additionally, I grabbed a Dust Bowl from another deck. I'm removing Shizo, Death's Storehouse, as it only had four targets. Now that I have another strong self-sacrificing of my own land effect, I'm thinking that Crucible of Worlds should be considered again. What I'd remove for it I don't yet know...
Changes:
-Doomed Necromancer
+Awakening Zone
-Golgari Rot Farm
+Cavern of Souls
-Blighted Woodland
+Bayou
-Shizo, Death's Storehouse
+Dust Bowl
Unfortunately I don't have any spare copies of Bitterblossom, but a token generator like that feels like it would be more at home in a full-on stax build. It doesn't seem to work so well in my "minimal stax" build. As for From Beyond, it would appear to be decent. The only thing is that I think Awakening Zone is better for this deck. Being that one mana smaller means it can hit before Meren of Clan Nel Toth, make a token the turn you play her, then sac it whenever you want for the exp counter while she's out. From Beyond would have to hit the turn after Meren of Clan Nel Toth (or delay her), only to get +1 power over the spawn tokens. I don't really think that I have room for both, so the cheaper version seems to fit my needs better.
No changes to list for this post, but I'd like to hear everyone's opinion on what to remove to put Awakening Zone in.
Now that you've mentioned it, Awakening Zone does seem rather unimpressive. Four mana to always have one sac outlet a turn sounds good at first glance, but now that you have me thinking it seems really slow. It's probably better to have something like a Spore Frog (which provides fog presence), or even Green Sun's Zenith (which I have now been sold on) over it.
I'm not sure if I'm going to make it a priority every game to get out Bazaar of Baghdad (if I should, then I should probably add Expedition Map). I guess the big thing that needs to be figured out is how many ways to dump lands in the grave are required to make a card like Crucible of Worlds and Life from the Loam worth running. After the edits earlier, I'm now at 8 cards for getting lands in the grave (Bazaar of Baghdad, Blighted Woodland, Strip Mine, Verdant Catacombs, Sylvan Safekeeper, Satyr Wayfinder, Crop Rotation, and Deadbridge Chant). You could potentially claim more than that if you include tutors for getting the various land-in-grave methods. Of those eight, I'd say that Bazaar of Baghdad, Sylvan Safekeeper, and Deadbridge Chant are the ones that will reliably put more than one land into the grave. So would those three cards justify putting Crucible of Worlds back in (Life from the Loam is staying in no matter what, as I got a foil copy and really want to use it haha)?
After considering the above, I'm sold on Green Sun's Zenith. Additionally, Bone Shredder seems worth less than its admission price. I originally had it in there for the Echo (so it could sac itself for an experience counter) and one toughness for Skullclamp. But I now realize that these reasons conflict with each other. If it's in for the Echo, it can't really be in for Skullclamp use (as it would revive at the end of turn - past the chance to equip, meaning I'd have to pay the Echo or let it die again). Instead I'll put Spore Frog in, as it can be a experience farmer (turn one of Meren of Clan Nel Toth being out sac Spore Frog, then revive Spore Frog) and also Skullclamp fodder.
For now, these are the changes I'm going with:
-Awakening Zone
+Green Sun's Zenith
-Bone Shredder
+Spore Frog
With all of my various sac outlets, I'm thinking that I can remove Homeward Path. Deserted Temple seems better due to its interaction with Bazaar of Baghdad, High Market, and Cabal Coffers.
Changes:
- Homeward Path
+ Deserted Temple
Additionally, I'm thinking the self-mill from Grisly Salvage isn't a super relevant effect. I'm sure it's a decent effect and all, but I'm thinking that I'd rather gain some card draw in reusable form - via Elvish Visionary.
Changes:
- Crucible of Worlds
+ Sylvan Library
- Grisly Salvage
+ Elvish Visionary
- Sylvan Ranger
+ Oracle of Mul Daya
Edit: I can't believe that I forgot to put in Oracle of Mul Daya. Sylvan Ranger gets the boot for that.
But thanks for checking, as I too have noticed people run things like Maze of Ith in their land slots.
4 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
Lands (38)
1 Bayou
1 Bazaar of Baghdad
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Command Tower
1 Deserted Temple
1 Dust Bowl
1 Grim Backwoods
1 High Market
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Strip Mine
1 Tainted Wood
1 Temple of Malady
1 Temple of the False God
1 Twilight Mire
1 Urborg
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Woodland Cemetery
1 Yavimaya Hollow
7 Forest
6 Swamp
Creatures (34)
1 Caustic Caterpillar
1 Spore Frog
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Viscera Seer
2 Devoted Druid
2 Elvish Visionary
2 Reassembling Skeleton
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Satyr Wayfinder
3 Eternal Witness
3 Farhaven Elf
3 Fleshbag Marauder
3 Grim Haruspex
3 Merciless Executioner
3 Reclamation Sage
3 Wood Elves
3 Yavimaya Elder
4 Disciple of Bolas
4 Mindslicer
4 Oracle of Mul Daya
4 Slum Reaper
5 Deranged Hermit
5 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
6 Duplicant
6 Grave Titan
6 Kokusho, the Evening Star
6 Massacre Wurm
6 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
6 Triskelion
7 Avenger of Zendikar
7 Rune-Scarred Demon
7 Sheoldred, Whispering One
8 Terastodon
8 Woodfall Primus
1 Crop Rotation
1 Entomb
1 Vampiric Tutor
Sorceries (8)
1 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Demonic Tutor
2 Diabolic Intent
2 Life from the Loam
3 Buried Alive
3 Victimize
4 Damnation
4 Jarad's Orders
Enchantments (10)
1 Phyrexian Reclamation
2 Evolutionary Leap
2 Survival of the Fittest
2 Sylvan Library
3 Awakening Zone
3 Phyrexian Arena
4 Grave Pact
4 Greater Good
5 Dictate of Erebos
6 Deadbridge Chant
Artifacts (6)
1 Skullclamp
1 Sol Ring
2 Altar of Dementia
2 Golgari Signet
3 Ashnod's Altar
3 Phyrexian Altar
Now I'm sure that the deck can be improved, so I'm open to all ideas. All I ask is that you provide a reason as to why you believe a certain card should be in. It would also be a great help if you mention which card(s) you believe should be removed (and why).
Current discussion for inclusion:
Crucible of Worlds
Strionic Resonator
One last side-note: Deranged Hermit is a pet card of mine. This is the one card that will stay in no matter what.
I suppose a good follow-up question would be: Which of the common (in Meren) self-mill effects is the weakest? I have one card to cut since Bazaar of Baghdad will directly replace it. The common three are:
Mulch - Tied for the lowest with revealing four, but might add multiple lands to the hand
Satyr Wayfinder - Tied for the lowest with revealing four, only can add one land to the hand. May be reused with Maren and can be Skullclamp fodder
Grisly Salvage - The highest with revealing five, may keep a creature or land (or none if you so choose)
My thought is that Mulch will be the weakest (one less card revealed than Grisly Salvage and not reusable like Satyr Wayfinder), but I'd like to hear what everyone thinks. Thanks in advance!
So I was wondering what the board thought about Bazaar of Baghdad in a Meren of Clan Nel Toth deck. Is it a good idea? A bad idea? I'm looking for opinions before I finalize my deck and buy the missing pieces. Thanks!
Sorry to burst your bubble, but Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker specifices that you have to target a nonlegendary creature.
It completely depends on your meta whether infinite combos are accepted. For example, in mine they are accepted for one or two games in a row before everybody pulls out their strongest decks and all team up to destroy you. We like playing our fun decks more than our strong ones.
As for your comment about Magosi, the Waterveil, it won't work. Magosi bounces to your hand to get the extra turn, so adding extra counters to it won't do a thing.