There are a lot of rules implicated by your question, so I've tried to explain all of them as they come up. If I haven't been clear about something, please ask me to clarify and I will do so.
Ok, so Player 1 has just played Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord and it resolved. It must be Player 1's turn since he just played Jarad (barring something crazy), so he'll have priority. At this point, Player 1 could activate activate Jarad's ability to sacrifice a creature and put that ability on the stack. But, note that Jarad's ability says you have to sacrifice another creature to use it, so you can't sacrifice Jarad to himself (which seems to be what you want to do).
So, let's change the example a little and assume Player 1 also has Merfolk of the Pearl Trident on the battlefield. Once Jarad comes into play, Player 1 will have priority (it's his turn and a spell resolved) and can immediately activate Jarad's ability. When he does this, the Merfolk are immediately sacrificed and placed in the graveyard as part of the cost of activating Jarad's ability. The Jarad ability goes on the stack, so the stack looks like this:
Top of Stack
Jarad's activated ability
Bottom of Stack
Player 1 passes priority. At this point, Player 2 cannot target the Merfolk with Lightning Bolt because it's already in the graveyard. Let's assume Player 2 has Terminate and he plays it targeting Jarad (who is now 5/5, by the way, since Player 1 has two creatures in the graveyard instead of one). Jarad's ability doesn't resolve yet because both players haven't passed in a row, so Terminate is now placed on the stack above the activated ability:
Top of Stack
Terminate (targeting Jarad)
Jarad's activated ability
Bottom of Stack
Player 2 passes, Player 1 passes, and Terminate resolves, destroying Jarad. The stack now looks like this:
Top of Stack
Jarad's activated ability
Bottom of Stack
Destroying Jarad won't stop Jarad's ability from resolving and causing both players to lose 1 life. Abilities generally exist independently of their sources so destroying their sources won't stop them from resolving. Think of it as the same thing as shooting a guy who's already thrown a hand grenade. Yeah, the thrower is dead, but the grenade will still explode. To stop the activated ability, you'll need something like Stifle that counters abilities.
So let's consider another example. Same set up with Jarad having just come onto the battlefield and Player 1 also controlling Merfolk of the Pearl Trident. This time Player 1 just passes priority instead of activating Jarad's ability. Player 2 plays Lightning Bolt, targeting Merfolk of the Pearl Trident. The stack looks like this:
Top of Stack
Lightning Bolt (targeting Merfolk of the Pearl Trident)
Bottom of Stack
Player 2 passes. Player 1 sees that his Merfolk are doomed, so in response he sacrifices his Merfolk to Jarad. The Merfolk are immediately placed in the graveyard. The stack now looks like this:
Top of Stack
Jarad's activated ability
Lightning Bolt (targeting Merfolk of the Pearl Trident)
Bottom of Stack
Player 1 passes and Player 2 passes. Jarad's ability resolves and both players lose 1 life. The stack now looks like this:
Top of Stack
Lightning Bolt (targeting Merfolk of the Pearl Trident)
Bottom of Stack
Player 1 passes, Player 2 passes. Lightning Bolt tries to resolve, but the game sees that its target is now illegal because the Merfolk are already in the graveyard. Lightning Bolt is countered on resolution because all of its targets are illegal and does nothing (in the old days we used to call this "fizzling"--I'm not sure if they still use this term). Player 2 doesn't get a chance to change the target or anything at this time--Lightning Bolt just goes to the graveyard and does nothing.
Finally, regarding summoning sickness. Summoning sickness means a player can't attack with a creature or activate any of its abilities with the tap symbol (or the untap symbol) as part of the cost unless that player has continuously controlled that creature since the beginning of his most recent turn. In the normal case, this just means you can't attack or activate a tap symbol ability of a creature the same turn you played the creature.
So, let's look at Jarad. He has an activated ability, but it doesn't have a tap symbol in the cost. For this reason, you can use Jarad's activated ability the moment he comes into play -- you don't have to wait until the next turn. However, with a card like Scourge of Skola Vale, you could not activate that ability the turn the Scourge comes into play because it has the tap symbol in its cost. Both involve sacrificing another creature you control, but since the Scourge has the tap symbol, he has to wait around until your next turn before he gets to start devouring other creatures.
I hope this is helpful. Like I said above, if I was confusing or was unclear about something, feel free to ask me to clarify.
- Yare
- Registered User
-
Member for 18 years, 9 months, and 26 days
Last active Fri, Jun, 24 2016 07:25:06
- 0 Followers
- 3,406 Total Posts
- 4 Thanks
-
Jul 6, 2014Yare posted a message on Priority and the StackQuestion 1:Posted in: Articles
Player A will have the chance to play his Counterspell before Lightning Bolt resolves, regardless of whose turn it is. The only difference would be that if it's Player A's turn, then he would get priority first after Brainstorm resolved as opposed to second if it were Player B's turn. In that example, Player B would pass then Player A could go "oh, I want to play Counterspell before Lightning Bolt resolves," and he'll simply respond by playing Counterspell (targeting Lightning Bolt). Both players then pass and Counterspell resolves, countering Lightning Bolt.
As a practical matter, it very rarely matters whose turn it is and therefore who gets priority first after a spell resolves. In most cases, it's a question of "when did both players pass priority so we can resolve the top thing on the stack?"
Question 2:
The 1/1 creature will die will die. In this example, Giant Growth is on top of Lightning Bolt on the stack, so Giant Growth will resolve first. Ok, so the 1/1 (let's say it's Merfolk of the Pearl Trident becomes 4/4. Next, Lightning Bolt resolves and the Merfolk have 3 damage on him. They've only been dealt 3 damage this turn but have 4 toughness, so they'll stick around for a bit longer. That damage stays with the Merfolk until the very end of the turn. But, you ping the Merfolk for one more damage with Prodigal Sorcerer later in the same turn. The game sees that the Merfolk have been dealt damage equal to or greater than their toughness (in this case, 4 damage), and are destroyed.
For more info on how creatures die, see my other article:
Magic 101: How Creatures Die (June 25, 2010)
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/articles/15275-magic-101-how-creatures-die
NOTE: The Legend Rule has changed since that article was published. Each player can have one copy of the same legend on his or her own side now without either legend dying. Everything else should still be correct, though.
Question 3:
I'm a little confused on precisely what you're asking. Could you please clarify your question? Is the Lightning Bolt targeting Jarad or another creature you control? If it's attempting to target Jarad while he is still a spell on the stack, that won't work and is illegal -- Lightning Bolt can only target creatures that are already on the battlefield, not while they're still spells on the stack. -
Jun 23, 2014Yare posted a message on Priority and the StackPosted in: Articles
You're almost right, but let me clarify--I was a little imprecise in my language above.
Both players can still respond to the triggers (like any other spell or ability) and they still resolve one at a time after both players pass (like any other spell or ability).
So, with this stack:
Top of Stack
Prison Term's triggered ability (targeting Kor Skyfisher)
Kor Skyfisher's triggered ability (targeting Squire)
Bottom of Stack
At this point, your brother will get priority again because he was the last person to play a spell (the Kor Skyfisher). He could cast Stifle to counter your Prison Term's triggered ability or he could cast Mage's Guile on his Skyfisher to give it shroud and to prevent Prison Term's triggered ability from moving the Prison Term to Kor Skyfisher. But, assuming neither of you have any response and pass, only Prison Term's triggered ability will resolve and then you'll have a stack that looks like this:
Top of Stack
Kor Skyfisher's triggered ability (targeting Squire)
Bottom of Stack
Once again, at this point, you'll both get the chance to play spells and abilities, though your brother will get priority first since it is his turn. After he passes, you could cast Voidslime on the triggered ability or you could cast Veil of Secrecy on your Squire (you could also have done this earlier before Prison Term's triggered ability resolved as well).
The long and the short of it is that the triggered abilities use the stack like other spells and abilities and can be responded to like other spells and abilities.
Also, apologies for not responding sooner--I was away from home for a couple of days.
I made some mistakes; this is wrong. Please see below comments. -
Jun 17, 2014Yare posted a message on Priority and the StackPosted in: Articles
The situation does work out in your favor, but not for the reasons you say.
So, Kor Skyfisher comes into play. The game sees this and both Kor Skyfisher and Prison Term trigger at the same time. A couple of things need to be decided at this point: 1) Which trigger goes on the stack first? and 2) What are the targets for those triggers going to be? Note: the triggers will both go on the stack before either player gets priority or a chance to play anything new. By "Triggered abilities go on the stack when a player would gain priority", I meant that "Instead of a player gaining priority, all triggered abilities go on the stack and then a player gains priority." So, we have to deal with both triggers right now before anybody gets a chance to play anything.
How do we decide which trigger goes on the stack first? Quoting from the article:
The game has a rule for handling this too, called the “APNAP rule”. APNAP stands for “active player, nonactive player," meaning that the active player puts all of his triggers on the stack first, and then the nonactive player puts all of his triggers on the stack second. . . . the controller of a triggered ability is the controller of the thing that created the triggered ability.
So, the active player (the player whose turn it is) puts names his target and puts his triggered ability on the stack first. In this case, assuming your brother doesn't have Crucible of Worlds in play or anything fancy like that, it will be his turn so he is the active player and has to pick a target for his triggered ability first. Let's assume your brother's other creature enchanted with Prison Term is Squire and he targets that and puts the triggered ability on the stack. At this point, you put your triggered ability on the stack for Prison Term. You see that your brother targeted Squire, so you smartly choose to target Kor Skyfisher with Prison Term's triggered ability. So, the stack looks like this:
Top of Stack
Prison Term's triggered ability (targeting Kor Skyfisher)
Kor Skyfisher's triggered ability (targeting Squire)
Bottom of Stack
Now your brother gets priority (since it's his turn). You both pass and Prison Term's triggered ability resolves and moves to Kor Skyfisher. Kor Skyfisher's triggered ability resolves and returns Squire to your brother hand.
So, you get the better of this one.
Edit: see further clarification two comments down...
I made some mistakes; this is wrong. Please see below comments. -
Jun 15, 2014Yare posted a message on Priority and the StackThanks for your kind words! I really am glad this article is still used so long after I wrote it.Posted in: Articles
Regarding your question, fortunately, I happened to write an article on triggered abilities as well:
Magic 101: Triggered Abilities (April 1, 2008)
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/articles/15667-magic-101-triggered-abilities
Check out the article and see if you can explain how you think it will work out. I promise that I'll give the answer once you've given it a shot, though. -
Jun 7, 2014Yare posted a message on Priority and the StackYou can still use both Giant Growth and Royal Assassin's activated ability during combat--you just have to make sure you do it at the right time. You could make a whole other article about the nuances of the combat phase, but for a short explanation:Posted in: Articles
The combat phase has the following steps:
Beginning of combat step
Declare attackers step
Declare blockers step
Combat damage step
End of combat step
So, your question is "Can I use Giant Growth or Royal Assassin's activated ability during the combat phase and have them still be effective?" The short answer is "Yes, but you'll want to use them before the combat damage step begins, meaning your last opportunity is during the declare blockers step." Let's look at an example.
Support Player A has Squire in play and Giant Growth in hand and Player B has Goblin Hero in play and we're in the first main phase of Player A. Both players pass and we move to the beginning of combat step. Both players pass again. We move to the declare attackers step. At this point, Player A declares Squire as an attacker. Both players pass and we move to the declare blockers step. Player B declares that Goblin Hero is blocking Squire. If both players pass priority after Goblin Hero is declared as a blocker, combat damage will be dealt immediately and it will be too late for Player A to save Squire. So, instead, during the declare blockers step, Player A plays Giant Growth, targeting Squire. Both players pass, Squire deals 4 damage to Goblin Hero, Goblin Hero deals 2 damage to Squire, and Goblin Hero dies while Squire lives.
Under the old rules (which are described above and are no longer the current rules), instead of the damage being dealt immediately, the damage would go on the stack like anything else at the beginning of the combat damage step and both players had the chance to respond to it with things like Shelter. As a practical matter this won't matter most of the time, as Player B could have played Shelter in response to Giant Growth during the declare blockers step. It's just that rules-lawyers will try to trick you and have combat damage be dealt when maybe you didn't intend for it to be dealt.
What about Royal Assassin? Suppose Player A has Squire in play and Player B has Royal Assassin in play. Again, Player A declares Squire as an attacker and taps Squire during the declare attackers step. After Player A passes, Player B can simply activate Royal Assassin targeting the now-tapped Squire and destroy him. Squire won't deal any damage because he'll be destroyed before the game reaches the combat damage step.
If you find this confusing, my advice is to just make clear to your opponent that you want to do these things before damage is dealt. Whenever blockers are declared, immediately after that is your last chance to do anything sneaky before damage is dealt. If both players pass, damage will be dealt and it will be too late. -
Mar 19, 2014Yare posted a message on Priority and the StackAuthor's note: Combat damage doesn't use the stack anymore -- this rule was changed a few years after the article was published. Instead, once the combat damage step is reached, combat damage is dealt immediately. Most everything else in this article should still be accurate, though.Posted in: Articles
-
Mar 19, 2014Yare posted a message on Priority and the StackLet's assume the target of the Sorcerer's ability was your opponent. The general rule is that abilities exist independent of their sources, so destroying the original source won't stop the ability from resolving. So, the stack looks like this:Posted in: Articles
TOP OF STACK
Murder - targeting Prodigal Sorcerer
Prodigal Sorcerer activated ability - targeting opponent
BOTTOM OF STACK
Murder resolves first, destroying Prodigal Sorcerer. The game sees that the Sorcerer's ability is still on the stack, though -- there is no rule that causes the ability to cease to exist because its source has been destroyed. Assuming both players pass priority, the Prodigal Sorcerer activated ability will resolve, dealing one damage to your opponent. If your opponent wanted to stop Prodigal Sorcerer's ability, he would need to use something like Stifle to counter the activated ability -- once the Prodigal Sorcerer has been activated, it's too late.
Note the outcome doesn't really change if your opponent casts Murder first. In that case, you can just activate the Prodigal Sorcerer in response to Murder. Prodigal Sorcerer's ability will resolve first (instead of second) in that scenario, but the outcome will be the same in that your opponent will take one damage and Prodigal Sorcerer will be destroyed.
On a related note, I'm glad that this article is still used even six years later. Thanks for reading! - To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
You have been asked before to add tags, I have added them- But next time I will issue a warning or delete your post.Lucky Craven didn't catch you.
Edit: Now why I didn't know that, I'm not sure. Having played for a number of years, it makes me wonder if the rules have changed since I last read them, or have just overlooked this step all this time. I guess in Vintage combat nuances are rarely a big deal, so perhaps that's why I was unaware.
I guess I feel like players would be better off knowing how players cheat so they can spot it rather than falling victim to it because they are not aware of how it goes on. Some of the more subtle cheating strategies I wouldn't have even known about had they not been posted online. Although, I guess the fear would be that dishonest players would try to abuse it instead of protecting themselves from it, hence the problem.
Regarding it not being of interest to players, then the players that it's not of interest to won't read it. That's no reason to exclude it for those who it does interest.
Having officiated soccer matches for the last give years, I can understand why Magic judges would want their privacy. After all, I don't really want the players to know all the tricks of officiating well...although ideally, even if they do know it shouldn't matter.
I suppose I'm just asking that you consider the good vs. the bad generated by making the forum viewable by the public. Players can learn something about how this all works and what they can expect, but you might help the dishonest players at the same time. In my opinion, the dishonest players are going to be dishonest and find out how to do these things regardless of whether this forum is publicly viewable or not; the more honest players on the other hand might not set out to find every nuance of cheating. They just want to play the game.
One final remark: MTGnews (since that's what this really is in everything but name) has always had all of its forums open to the public (sans the private moderator forum, which is justifiable for obvious reasons). While the idea of closing off who can post is understandable, I feel like closing viewing too is not necessarily the best course of action.
That's my opinion and I would encourage others to comment both for and against it. Maybe I'm wrong, I'd just like to see what others think. Thank you for your consideration.
I've been looking to possibly buy a print by my favorite magic artist, Ron Spencer, and all I have been able to come up with is a "Ron Spencer" store on eBay. I e-mailed the owner of the store concerning if he could authenticate the legitimacy of the signaures on the prints or anything and I got this response:
"Hello, Everything that you see in the Ron Spencer Art Store-prints, cards, etc. is being sold by me-the artist Ron Spencer. If you read some of my feedback this will give you a pretty good idea that it's me selling the stuff and not someone else. I can guarantee that everything with the handle 'greentrilobiteman' is 100% authentic and is being sold by me-Ron Spencer, the artist!!! As for the Hammer of Bogardan, yes, I do know who bought it, but I try and keep peoples identies private and as for what he paid for it-it was alot!!! If you have any other questions, just let me know! Thanks, Ron Spencer"
That just doens't sit well with me. He basically said, "yeah, I'm legit, look at my feedback" and that's about it. The fact that others were potentially fooled by this person doesn't prove anything.
In short, can anybody validate this eBay store as actually being owned by Spencer? The reply just didn't really seem to be what I was looking for.
Any help would be appreciated.
Link to one example of the many, fairly redundant print pages:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5906774808&sspagename=ADME:L:RTQ:US:1
Edit:
On a completely different tangent, what exactly is the art of Yawgmoth's Will supposed to be? I don't know to this day.:(