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    posted a message on BW Tokens
    Quote from Mirage King »
    Okay ladies and gentlemen. Went 4-0-0 tonight to win it all. Was 12 people.

    Match 1: White Weenies 2-0
    Summary: Nothing special. I out-boarded him quickly first match. Didn't SB second match as he didn't put any threats up.

    Match 2: Slivers 2-0
    Summary: He wasn't able to get out of the slump I put him in with a turn one Inquisition into a turn two Thoughtseize. Was able to race him after. Boarded in Zealous Persecutions. Snagged a ZP and used it in combat to level the playing field. Out raced him game two.

    Match 3: Esper Gifts Ungiven 2-1
    Summary: He didn't spect a list with so many planeswalkers for tokens. And he hadn't the opportunity to watch my games. Got Lili out turn 3 and managed his hand with a Lili and a Bitterblossom. He countered my Gideon, next turn I brought out Sorin. He conceded game 1 as I was going to ult Lili and Sorin. Match two I sided out the two Gideons in favor for two Rest in Peace. Sided out the two Spectral Processions for two Lost Legacy. and sided out two Anguished Unmakings for two Surgical Extractions. So I lost match 2 due to him hard casting a Elesh Norn. Nuff said. Went on to Match three and I managed his hand. Inquisitioned turn one a Mana Leak. Paid 2 life to Extract the Mana Leaks. (He only had 4 Mana Leaks and 3 Cryptic Commands for counters.) On turn three I Lost Legacy'd his Gifts Ungiven. Turn 4 I brought out Lili and after that I just hand managed the opponent the rest of the way to victory.

    Match 4: Dredge 2-1
    Summary: Match 1 was his. Boarded in Surgicals, Rest in Peaces and Lost Legacy. Took out Liliana. Match 2 I started with Rest in Peace. He conceded. Match three I was able to first turn Inquisition a Cathartic Reunion. Next turn another Inquisition takes Stinkweed and I pay 2 life to Surgical it. I lost Legacy'd Prized Amalgam, drew into another Surgical and as his lone Bloodghast attacked at the time I took it out with a spirit and Surgical Extracted that as well. After that it was pretty easy.

    Made a few mistakes. But the best game of the night had to be against Gifts Ungiven. Props to that player. He told me after I won the tournament that he's seen a lot of token decks. He said he never has seen one quite like mine. Made me have all the feels.



    Decklist?
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on Pro Tour Aether Revolt/Dublin - Standard - 2/3-5
    Quote from SC1987 »
    Quote from Tiemuuu »
    We have a winner that isn't BG or Jeskai Saheeli, yet people are still unhappy? smh. I have no idea what kind of result you were hoping for.


    How about a meta isn't dominated by ONE archetype? At this point, I'd gladly go back to BG/Jeskai Saheeli dominating Standard; that is technically 100% more diverse than what this weekend's PT results indicate.

    Also does anyone else here notice that even in the days of SIEGE RHINO and COLLECTED COMPANY, there still wasn't a PT where 6 out of 8 decks were from ONE archetype?

    The most ironic part is that this is all despite WoTC's recent efforts to make Standard more fun and diverse, including the recent bannings. WoTC's ever-so valiant efforts to help Standard somehow achieved the exact opposite. We can't wait to see how they're going to "save" Standard this time. How about just straight-up banning all the most played cards? Evil Lol



    Last PT Top 8 this bad was modern with the Eldrazi
    Posted in: Standard (Type 2)
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    posted a message on BW Tokens
    Quote from MarcWizard »
    If you're going to splash green for the Oath of Ajani then you have to play Nissa, Voice of Zendikar, the 3 mana token producing PW. Alternate ramp in the form of Noble Hierarch is also, from my POV, non-negotiable in the now 3-color deck that cannot afford turn 1 discard plays as it needs to quickly advance its mana (and by extension, game plan). Black seems less and less necessary except for our starboy, Lingering Souls and perhaps Sorin.


    agree with Nissa as a must if you want to add green.








    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on BW Tokens


    Looks pretty bad, Midnight haunting is a bad magic card, and really looks like to decks here part abzan mid, part tokens that generally means bad deck
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on BW Tokens


    Wrong thread? how is this related to BW tokens?
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on Post-Modern Frontier Format
    Quote from crimhead »
    Quote from Vegas10 »

    Big difference between this affecting Modern the way Modern affected legacy, no reserve list for modern, cards can always be reprinted to make sure enough are out there.
    WotC had a loop-hole to reprint RL cards, but they closed it and created Modern instead. Legacy players were upset by this choice; just as Modern players will be upset if WotC creates and supports this format instead of upping the reprints for Modern.

    Really it's the same situation - prices in Modern are prohibitively high and this is preventing players from joining. Apparently WotC has other concerns with reprinting expensive staples besides the RL (like consumer confidence in the secondary market). A cheaper non-rotating format will be an alternative to anybody who would have shelled out for the more expensive format but will take the cheaper option instead. Players who will be glad for a cheaper format won't care about the fate of Modern anymore than Modern players care about Legacy.



    Completely disagree, there is nothing stopping WOTC from supporting both formats with reprints the way there is with Legacy, in fact as Frontier gets more and more sets it will likely suffer from similar issues that all non-rotating formats do, new cards will have a harder and harder time breaking in as the power level will obviously increase overtime one does in such a large card pool. If they can make money reprinting cards for both formats I don't see any reason they wouldn't do so, hell through supplementary products they still find ways to impact legacy and why $$$, plain and simple.
    Posted in: Frontier
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    posted a message on Post-Modern Frontier Format
    Quote from crimhead »
    Quote from Colt47 »

    Why am I imagining the modern forums on MTGSalvation are going to be "colorful" when this happens. A lot of people over there are worried about Modern attendance dropping and that isn't going to help in the slightest, though I'm more on wizards side at this point with generating a new window.
    A lot of those worried Modern players probably weren't very sympathetic when Legacy players felt their format of choice was threatened by Modern.

    I say let people play whatever games they want. Nobody owes it to you to play and support the format of your preference. Legacy has survived (despite slowed growth) because it has enough appeal to retain and attract players. Modern too will endure if and only if people in sufficient numbers still want to play it. End of story.




    Big difference between this affecting Modern the way Modern affected legacy, no reserve list for modern, cards can always be reprinted to make sure enough are out there.
    Posted in: Frontier
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    posted a message on Post-Modern Frontier Format
    Quote from Exares »
    Quote from Colt47 »
    Well, Modern has more problems than card availability. You know how in Dragonball Z the fighters power levels just kept going up each season until they were blowing up planets, and then Toriyama decided to try to do a power reset with Dragonball GT and that ended up with the fighters getting even more powerful by the end of it? Modern has that problem.


    I know, power level and lack of viable deck options is a real problem in Modern. That's why I suggested maybe a slow-rotating format could fill the gap between the allegedly boring Standard and the overpowered Modern. Removing blocks with powerful cards like Innistrad, RTR or Scars of Mirrodin could refresh all these things.

    Anyway, good to know others share my disappointment with Theros not being in Frontier :p
    Quote from Colt47 »
    Well, Modern has more problems than card availability. You know how in Dragonball Z the fighters power levels just kept going up each season until they were blowing up planets, and then Toriyama decided to try to do a power reset with Dragonball GT and that ended up with the fighters getting even more powerful by the end of it? Modern has that problem.


    I know, power level and lack of viable deck options is a real problem in Modern. That's why I suggested maybe a slow-rotating format could fill the gap between the allegedly boring Standard and the overpowered Modern. Removing blocks with powerful cards like Innistrad, RTR or Scars of Mirrodin could refresh all these things.

    Anyway, good to know others share my disappointment with Theros not being in Frontier :p





    Huh? there are a lot of viable decks in Modern, Dredge,Burn,Jund,Junk,Affinity,Grixis Delver,Grixis Control, Zoo, RW Control, Knightfall, RG Titan, Scapeshift,Infect,Jeskai Control and Midrange, Skred Red, Ad Mauseam, Elrdazi Taxes,Bant Eldrazi, Kikki-Chord, Company just off the top of my head
    Far more diverse than standard ever really is, frontier may be a good format not knocking it, but to say Modern isn't diverse is just false.
    Posted in: Frontier
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    posted a message on BW Tokens
    Quote from DHamlin »
    Quote from michaelvogler »
    Some playtesting with it a few years led some to conclude that it didn't stick often enough. Since people hold their removal against us, myth realized let them use it with impunity upon activation.

    What makes Gideon a good card here is that it evades and is indestructible

    Yep, plus it's sorta a weird card to use imho.
    On another note went 7-1 this week over 2 events, and just found out 2 more people in my local meta have finished UG Infect so I've had to shift my deck again to deal with that as up to 20-25% (4/16-20) of the FNM and weekly Competitive event meta could be UG Infect now. Ugh...


    I find Zealous Persecution to be very good against infect, if you were looking for suggestions, also pretty good against affinity.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on [Primer] Mardu (Dega/BWR) Midrange
    Quote from jongsl5 »
    Quote from Vegas10 »
    Quote from jongsl5 »
    Quote from gremere101 »
    I don't even like Nahiri and I'm sure the new Chandra doesn't do anything for the deck. Her +1 is probably not as good as most people think it is while the other abilities are not too relevant due to their loyalty costs. Despite being mono red, I don't think she is that splashable and needs a deck configured to maximize her +1 (maybe skred red)
    Surely you could run a mainly black red variant with lili and chandra, or a mainly white red variant with brimaz and chandra? I find it real easy to get double white in my deck on turn 3 for brim and double red by turn 4. I do it all the time in my deck due to making sure i have double red to cast my goblin dark dwellers, i don't really see it as being that mana constraining. I've already seen a couple of mardu decks running chandra pyromaster. I know it's the 'cool' thing to under value her at the moment say she's not that good, but she can remove creatures, draw cards, gain you mana and her ultimate is easy to get to. She has 4 abilities and they're literally all good. Sure her plus 1 doesn't always net you a card, but we saw a couple of coursers running about in jund a while back and that doesn't net a card every time either and it was just a 2/4 that drew lands sometimes, this is a lot more powerful... speaking of which... courser + fetchlands + Chandra sounds real good...

    Also it's note worthy that her +1 can also pressure other planeswalkers like lili and nahiri.


    I wasn't talking about her casting cost being the restriction - rather, her abilities. Double red isn't impossible like you said, it's a matter of running couple filter lands.

    ". I know it's the 'cool' thing to under value her at the moment say she's not that good, but she can remove creatures, draw cards, gain you mana and her ultimate is easy to get to."

    Well let's consider the four abilities. First, we know that the double red mana isn't exactly useful in top deck situations and it's going to be very situational. Second, the bad shock ability isn't great for pressure. If it could target creatures, holy crap that would be amazing. The problem is that her +1 isn't a consistent card engine. The last two abilities have to be looked at more realistically. Versatility to remove a creature is good but we expect more from a 4-drop; it's the same reason people moved away from Ajani because he was too often a 4 mana helix, which is significantly better than Chandra's -3. The ultimate is something you only consider if it's fairly obtainable (e.g Nahiri, Gideon AZ, Sorin SV, etc.) otherwise it shouldn't be a big factor.

    Courser still sees some play in Jund but people moved away from it because it doesn't serve a particular niche like Kitchen Finks or Kolaghan's Command does. Command often gives you more value while Kitchen Finks is better at stabilizing your life against linear aggro.









    You may be right that new Chandra isn't good enough but I think it is worth testing before dismissing it in a mardu shell, I mean it's not like we have a Tier 1 deck so to just dismiss ideas without trying them seems very short sighted. After all when Nahiri was first spoiled I heard very little talk of her in modern yet after people tried it they found it was good enough in a Jeskai shell to be competitive in morden and I can go on and on about cards that people would dismiss without really trying only to see them tested by some group to make it. fact is a 4 mana walker with 4 abilities has a lot of flexability is definitely worth trying, I have some doubts on it as well, but also wouldn't be surprised if it makes it to some modern play whether as a 4 of or maybe just a 1-2 of in some fashion in some deck or decks.


    I wasn't discouraging testing, but clearly, there are things you can talk about from a theoretical perspective otherwise we'd be testing every cards that ever come out. When Nahiri came out, what people underestimated was really her ultimate, since most planeswalkers we see we don't particularly care about their ultimate abilities. But I wouldn't say she was underrated or anything. Even now, there is no universal consensus among Jeskai players that Nahiri is the best shell to build around.




    Just because there isn't a consensus doesn't mean there isn't a best build, Jeskai Nahiri puts up consistantly better results than other Jeskai control builds at this point and it isn't even close, but as far as theory discussion I agree not every card is testable, but I think new Chandra is at least worth a look, after all it's not like any of these Mardu builds is blowing through any major tourney sense with any consistency.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on [Primer] Mardu (Dega/BWR) Midrange
    Quote from jongsl5 »
    Quote from gremere101 »
    I don't even like Nahiri and I'm sure the new Chandra doesn't do anything for the deck. Her +1 is probably not as good as most people think it is while the other abilities are not too relevant due to their loyalty costs. Despite being mono red, I don't think she is that splashable and needs a deck configured to maximize her +1 (maybe skred red)
    Surely you could run a mainly black red variant with lili and chandra, or a mainly white red variant with brimaz and chandra? I find it real easy to get double white in my deck on turn 3 for brim and double red by turn 4. I do it all the time in my deck due to making sure i have double red to cast my goblin dark dwellers, i don't really see it as being that mana constraining. I've already seen a couple of mardu decks running chandra pyromaster. I know it's the 'cool' thing to under value her at the moment say she's not that good, but she can remove creatures, draw cards, gain you mana and her ultimate is easy to get to. She has 4 abilities and they're literally all good. Sure her plus 1 doesn't always net you a card, but we saw a couple of coursers running about in jund a while back and that doesn't net a card every time either and it was just a 2/4 that drew lands sometimes, this is a lot more powerful... speaking of which... courser + fetchlands + Chandra sounds real good...

    Also it's note worthy that her +1 can also pressure other planeswalkers like lili and nahiri.


    I wasn't talking about her casting cost being the restriction - rather, her abilities. Double red isn't impossible like you said, it's a matter of running couple filter lands.

    ". I know it's the 'cool' thing to under value her at the moment say she's not that good, but she can remove creatures, draw cards, gain you mana and her ultimate is easy to get to."

    Well let's consider the four abilities. First, we know that the double red mana isn't exactly useful in top deck situations and it's going to be very situational. Second, the bad shock ability isn't great for pressure. If it could target creatures, holy crap that would be amazing. The problem is that her +1 isn't a consistent card engine. The last two abilities have to be looked at more realistically. Versatility to remove a creature is good but we expect more from a 4-drop; it's the same reason people moved away from Ajani because he was too often a 4 mana helix, which is significantly better than Chandra's -3. The ultimate is something you only consider if it's fairly obtainable (e.g Nahiri, Gideon AZ, Sorin SV, etc.) otherwise it shouldn't be a big factor.

    Courser still sees some play in Jund but people moved away from it because it doesn't serve a particular niche like Kitchen Finks or Kolaghan's Command does. Command often gives you more value while Kitchen Finks is better at stabilizing your life against linear aggro.









    You may be right that new Chandra isn't good enough but I think it is worth testing before dismissing it in a mardu shell, I mean it's not like we have a Tier 1 deck so to just dismiss ideas without trying them seems very short sighted. After all when Nahiri was first spoiled I heard very little talk of her in modern yet after people tried it they found it was good enough in a Jeskai shell to be competitive in morden and I can go on and on about cards that people would dismiss without really trying only to see them tested by some group to make it. fact is a 4 mana walker with 4 abilities has a lot of flexability is definitely worth trying, I have some doubts on it as well, but also wouldn't be surprised if it makes it to some modern play whether as a 4 of or maybe just a 1-2 of in some fashion in some deck or decks.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on [Primer] Mardu (Dega/BWR) Midrange
    Quote from jongsl5 »
    Quote from Vegas10 »
    Quote from Beagle »
    I play a similar list.

    I'd personally drop the Gideon and Elspeth for 2 more Lillys - Lilly is just insanely more powerful than both of them and is a 3 mana win con herself against a lot of decks. Elspeth is so expensive and you're already doing well against grindy strategies with Souls and Nahiri. Gideon just turns on opponent's Paths that would otherwise be dead.

    I'd also drop the Pias - with Walls and Souls, you're really trying to ideally go Turn 1 interaction (Discard or Bolt), turn 2 interaction or Wall, turn 3 Souls or Lilly, and turn 4 Nahiri. There just aren't many decks that can beat that line. Wall is a great T2 play that sets up a nice defense for your win cons of Nahiri and Lilly.



    I agree with you on Lilly's I think 3-4 is where this should be, I just only own 2 right now, so I am dropping both Gideon and Elspeth as both underperformed and for now am going with 2 restoration angel, as for PK I completely disagree that card has been a haymaker almost overtime I play it, and face it not every game curves out T1, 1 drop, T2 wall, 3 Souls, 4 Nahiri, in fact that prob happens around 20% of games, and PK gives me another win condition combine with souls and vents to beat with. Also remember time can be a factor if you don't land the quick nahiri win and PK can end the game effectively, and even when PK eats a bolt or whatever I still have 2 1/1 flyers to help beat or block for nahiri and lily. Really if it wasn't a legend I'd run 3.


    You guys are looking at it wrong. Liliana and the other planeswalkers serve a completely different role. Liliana is great against control and combo but against aggro and midrange, you want something else. Sometimes your removal doesn't line up well with your opponents or your opponents derive more value in redundancy and cards like Company/ Chord. This is when Lingering Souls doesn't do enough on its own.

    Elspeth is a bit too much for 6-mana. But one crazy idea is to jam a bunch of Batterskulls in the deck. Of course, Kolaghan's Command is terrible but Jund only runs 2 and you can easily discard copies of it. Not as great games 2 and 3 with all the artifact hate but you can side them out for something else if your opponent has Ancient Grudge. You just want something that can both stabilize and put a clock.

    I've tested Nahiri online and my general feeling is encapsulated in one word: inconsistent. I don't even think Jeskai Nahiri is as competitive as it seems and that to me has fared better against most of the meta with Snapcaster Mage + Serum Visions outweighing the value of white cards.



    I've played Jeskai and this, and I think Nahiri is much better in this shell, and I really think there is potential here and that some slots still need testing before I am willing to go one way or the other on this deck. The fact is with PK I have won several games with that in games where I couldn't just Nahiri for the win. I'm not 100% on how many lily's we should run main but I figure at least 2 and 3-4 is very possible, maybe more sweepers main in agree metas is a good idea as well.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on [Primer] Mardu (Dega/BWR) Midrange
    Quote from Beagle »
    I play a similar list.

    I'd personally drop the Gideon and Elspeth for 2 more Lillys - Lilly is just insanely more powerful than both of them and is a 3 mana win con herself against a lot of decks. Elspeth is so expensive and you're already doing well against grindy strategies with Souls and Nahiri. Gideon just turns on opponent's Paths that would otherwise be dead.

    I'd also drop the Pias - with Walls and Souls, you're really trying to ideally go Turn 1 interaction (Discard or Bolt), turn 2 interaction or Wall, turn 3 Souls or Lilly, and turn 4 Nahiri. There just aren't many decks that can beat that line. Wall is a great T2 play that sets up a nice defense for your win cons of Nahiri and Lilly.



    I agree with you on Lilly's I think 3-4 is where this should be, I just only own 2 right now, so I am dropping both Gideon and Elspeth as both underperformed and for now am going with 2 restoration angel, as for PK I completely disagree that card has been a haymaker almost overtime I play it, and face it not every game curves out T1, 1 drop, T2 wall, 3 Souls, 4 Nahiri, in fact that prob happens around 20% of games, and PK gives me another win condition combine with souls and vents to beat with. Also remember time can be a factor if you don't land the quick nahiri win and PK can end the game effectively, and even when PK eats a bolt or whatever I still have 2 1/1 flyers to help beat or block for nahiri and lily. Really if it wasn't a legend I'd run 3.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on Grixis Control
    Quote from MarcWizard »
    Quote from Vegas10 »
    Quote from MarcWizard »
    Quote from Vegas10 »
    Quote from MarcWizard »
    If Nahiri was the amazing nuclear bomb she is being made out to be, you'd expect to see even 1 copy somewhere in some top 8. This isn't the case, however and bodes pretty ill for durdle decks in general. Well, WotC was pretty upfront about how they want modern to be like.


    Nahiri has made Top 8 in several Modern Opens, GP's I can't say for sure off top of my head.




    Nahiri has not made a significant* top 8 since July and thats just how far back the page goes: http://mtgtop8.com/archetype?a=571&meta=51&f=MO

    Not that we want to go any further back, because we're playing in the meta now, not the meta before July.

    *Modern Open as you claim, or GP or 3* event and above.



    On 8-20-2016, a Mardu Nahiri deck T8 SCG Open in Somerset, granted it's not the more common Jeskai version, but your statement was Nahiri decks, look I'm not saying it's the best deck either one they aren't but it isn't trash either, Nahiri also was in several decks making a lot of T16's and T32's at Gp's and such.


    Maybe instead of trying to argue on the really specific things and semantics, you could take the operative meaning of my post which is: Control is in a bad way.

    Do you agree or disagree with this or not?



    Are you trying to say control in modern in general is in a tough spot? or that you think it's outright bad? I agree it's tough for control decks in modern right now, but I do think Nahiri has actually helped a bit, so has the unbanning of AV, but overall the linear Aggro decks are at an advantage overall in the format and the numbers bear that out, with Midrange and combo sprinkled in as well as a bit of control.
    Posted in: Tier 2 (Modern)
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    posted a message on Grixis Control
    Quote from MarcWizard »
    Quote from Vegas10 »
    Quote from MarcWizard »
    If Nahiri was the amazing nuclear bomb she is being made out to be, you'd expect to see even 1 copy somewhere in some top 8. This isn't the case, however and bodes pretty ill for durdle decks in general. Well, WotC was pretty upfront about how they want modern to be like.


    Nahiri has made Top 8 in several Modern Opens, GP's I can't say for sure off top of my head.




    Nahiri has not made a significant* top 8 since July and thats just how far back the page goes: http://mtgtop8.com/archetype?a=571&meta=51&f=MO

    Not that we want to go any further back, because we're playing in the meta now, not the meta before July.

    *Modern Open as you claim, or GP or 3* event and above.



    On 8-20-2016, a Mardu Nahiri deck T8 SCG Open in Somerset, granted it's not the more common Jeskai version, but your statement was Nahiri decks, look I'm not saying it's the best deck either one they aren't but it isn't trash either, Nahiri also was in several decks making a lot of T16's and T32's at Gp's and such.
    Posted in: Tier 2 (Modern)
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    posted a message on Grixis Control
    Quote from MarcWizard »
    If Nahiri was the amazing nuclear bomb she is being made out to be, you'd expect to see even 1 copy somewhere in some top 8. This isn't the case, however and bodes pretty ill for durdle decks in general. Well, WotC was pretty upfront about how they want modern to be like.


    Nahiri has made Top 8 in several Modern Opens, GP's I can't say for sure off top of my head.
    Posted in: Tier 2 (Modern)
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    posted a message on [Primer] Mardu (Dega/BWR) Midrange
    Quote from TheSkyRaven »
    @Vegas10 What are you gonna get with Nahiri? I don't like putting Emrakul in my deck too and people at my LGS keep on insisting I get Emrakul. My build only consists of 2 Nahiris and I get Obzedat if necessary. I guess I don't plan on making a Nahiri Emrakul deck in the long run. I'm still playing around the Mardu Control build though and I hope we get something better to put in it


    I am running Emrakul
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on [Primer] Mardu (Dega/BWR) Midrange
    Quote from jongsl5 »
    Quote from Vegas10 »
    So I ran this Mardu Nahiri list at FNM last night been tweaking this deck for about a month still have a few slots in main and board that I am undecided on.


    Any thoughts would be appreciated will write up more details on matches later but I won, Beating Mardu Tokens, Bant Eldrazi and Jeskai Nahiri. 3 Flex spots in deck right now are Gideon, Elspeth, Painful, were Darkdweleers in past, Also 1st time using walls they were better than expected use to be Night's Whispers. SB still undecided on Ajani's and Zealous for sure. Deck ran pretty smother only mulled to 6, 2 times never to 5



    Ajani isn't that impactful in my opinion, especially for a 4-mana card. It's better to just run Kalitas as additional dredge/ coco hate and life stabilizer against aggro. I don't like Nahiri that much but if I was running her, I just don't see the cons of running 1 Emrakul. It's the fastest way for this deck to win and probably the only way you can race combo. If you're not running Emrakul, there are better planeswalkers like Gideon AZ which single-handedly wins me games.


    I am running Emrakul forgot to list him this morning
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on [Primer] Mardu (Dega/BWR) Midrange
    Oops forgot there is an emrakul
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on [Primer] Mardu (Dega/BWR) Midrange
    So I ran this Mardu Nahiri list at FNM last night been tweaking this deck for about a month still have a few slots in main and board that I am undecided on.


    Any thoughts would be appreciated will write up more details on matches later but I won, Beating Mardu Tokens, Bant Eldrazi and Jeskai Nahiri. 3 Flex spots in deck right now are Gideon, Elspeth, Painful, were Darkdweleers in past, Also 1st time using walls they were better than expected use to be Night's Whispers. SB still undecided on Ajani's and Zealous for sure. Deck ran pretty smother only mulled to 6, 2 times never to 5
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on [KLD] - Spoiler Discussion for Modern
    Quote from VidarThor »
    Quote from Lantern »
    Quote from Empowered88 »
    I don't think that madcap emperion is good when path is the most commonly played removal spell in the format.


    You mean Lightning bolt is the most commonly played removal spell in the format... Its been that way for years.

    https://www.mtggoldfish.com/format-staples/modern


    Did you see the worlds coveradge? 24 decks, 9 of them abzan. 2 of them jund. 25 bolts vs 50 path to exile. Smile

    https://www.mtggoldfish.com/tournament/2016-magic-world-championship#paper



    Basing enitre meta on one small tourney even if it is worlds is silly, in that event players tend to pick what they like for modern especially since its a multi format tourney, also small sample size should obviously apply here.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [Primer] UWr Midrange
    Quote from TheAller »
    So the new Thalia looks interesting for us, doesn't it? Blockers enter tapped and Geist can be more effective. Can slow down Tron and combo decks. It's good with flash creatures 'cause you can still untap them. Not saying it will necessarily make the cut though, 'cause Clique and Geist himself compete for that CMC3 creature spot. Maybe it can replace something else.



    Hmmm.. problem is it will feel awful when it just eats a bolt, that being said I do think it could have good applications in some matches, I could see it as a possible sideboard card and in the right meta maindeckable.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on [Primer] Jeskai Control / UWR Control
    Quote from CryptoSC »
    I find it interesting to see that there also seems to be no consensus amnongst the pros on whether to run Serum Visions, Ancestral Vision, both or none.

    Gerry Thompson for example runs 8 Visions in his MOCS list


    Of the lists shown on the SCG stream, one seemed not to include any Ancestral Vision (first one shown, forgot the players name, Round 4 vs BW Pox)

    Jim Davis has been running some amount of serum vision (i think) in the main and 2 Ancestral Vision in the Sideboard. His current score is 6-2.

    The current highest (known) Jeskai Nahiri player at 7-1, Pete Ingram, is running some amount of Ancestral Vision in the main, not clear on whether he runs any Serum Visions aswell.

    Can´t wait to see the day 2 metagame breakdown, expecting a fair share of Jeskai to have made it.



    He was running AV in the board, and 4 Serum main
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Proven
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    posted a message on [Primer] UWr Midrange
    Quote from Silverback23 »
    I have been playing Jeskai GST for sometime now and with the Eldrazi Menace bashing everyone, I have started to side Verdicts and WOG's. Other than this I want to revist the age old question of which is better? Mana Leak or Remand? I just want 4 counters and I feel Remand is soo bad againts Robots and Infect which is subsequently good vs Eldrazi.



    I feel Remand in the current environment isn't very good, Mana Leak is much better against decks like burn, infect, and Affinity, as well as Eldrazi. If your local meta is more Tron and Midrange than Remand is likely better. I am also going to try a set of Spreading Seas to help disrupt Eldrazi, Tron, and Get Man lands in decks like affinity and infect that can be problematic, and even in subpar matchups at least it cantrips game 1.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on Current Modern Banlist Discussion (1/18/2016 update - Summer Bloom/Splinter Twin Banned)
    In regards to the Eldrazi Deck, do we need to give a little time to see if the Meta can adjust in a non warping way to handle the new Eldrazi decks? yes, is it likely that will happen? no because the fact is the deck has 8 virtual sol rings, 4 of which are also repeatable tutors, The fact is this kind of power advantage concepts are for Legacy and Vintage, not modern, and please stop the unbanning talks, really we had a very healthy Modern format since the Pod banning, was Bloom Titan a bit of an issue, yes but because most players couldn't play it well consistently it never put up the crazy numbers it should have, I think it's more likely than not that both Eye and Temple get the axe, and if it is only 1 Eye is the bigger offender.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on [Primer] UWr Midrange
    Yeah, really meant I just think Pia and Kiran is much better against those especially affinity. And I just feel Cliques hasn't been as good for me lately but still like having 1 in the deck for now.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on [Primer] UWr Midrange
    After playing in a few local tournies 20+ players each, and seeing more linear decks and eldrazi, feels like remand has gotten much worse for me at least locally so far, upping mana leaks and serum visions for now instead of any remands, also trying 1 Pia and Kiran main and going down to 1 clique as again Clique seems much worse against those decks as well (not eldrazi so much as burn and affinity, etc..).
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on BW Tokens

    Just put the wraths in to try them, while I did side them in round 1 and 3, never drew them, but will continue for a while to see how often they do work when I do get them.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on BW Tokens
    I played the following list to 3-1 at FNM (3rd place), Note would have a 3rd Bitterblossom over Secure the wastes if I had one.



    Round 1 (1-0) Zoo
    honestly I should have lost he miss played game 3 pretty badly and flat out punted, Game 1 was close but he got me game 2 I rolled with a great curve

    Round 2 (2-0) Infect
    Not much to say here I won both games easily, game 2 Zealous on double elf was sweet

    Round 3 (2-1) BW Tokens
    G1 he drew more spectrals than I did\
    G2 I curved out great, he didn't
    G3 I drew awful he got Intagible and Zealous and I didn't

    Round 4 (3-1) Burn
    Stole game 1
    Game 2 Forge Tender, Double firewalker nough said
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on [Primer] UWr Midrange
    Quote from GeistofStDoom »
    Has anyone tried Fulminator Mage as sideboard tech?

    Edit:

    Still looking to beat RG Tron.

    Options I see:

    Fulminator Mage
    Crumble to Dust
    Shadow of Doubt
    Aven Mindcensor

    Crumble to Dust is great in that it ends Tron. But if we stumble in our land drops then they already played Karn and we lose anyways. Fulminator Mage and Shadow of Doubt and the bird are all tempo plays that slow them down. If we have a snapcaster mage or a geist in play then we can take advantage of that tempo. I played a game today against Blue Tron where I remanded Ugin 4 times but only dealt 6 damage in that time frame with Snapcaster. (Didn't end up mattering since they played platinum angel and I got them to -1 life but then never drew a path, doom, wear//tear or snapcaster.) So we would need to take advantage of that tempo gain.

    Thoughts?


    Well for the more R/W/U version I'm going to toy with molten rain since snappy can get it back, think it could help the Tron/Bloom match-Ups and have random aplications elsewhere, could be good for your 4 color version as well, at least might be worth exploring.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on [Primer] BW Tokens
    So I recently wen to my first Modern FNM with this deck, and I noticed my meta is full of URx decks, especially Twin. I recently got enough money to push for some serious upgrades and I want to know how many Auriok Champions I should run, and what my Inquisition/Thoughtseize split should look like. I'm nervous to run 4 Thoughtseize in a meta where Bolt+Snap is pretty common, and where there are certainly other decks that exist in my meta. Maybe I just had weird matchups and it's a coincidence that I saw three URx decks in a row. I saw players with Merfolk, Jund, Zoo, Titan Control, Affinity, and numerous others. Champion seems good in a meta like this, but I'm skeptical on running a playset, but I want to because black also exists in the meta.


    In a meta like that I could see running 3 champion main instead of 2, and go down to 6 discard effects main, 4 inquisition, 2 seize, use the sideboard to beef up the discard more when needed via 3 duress. normally though I would go into an unknown meta with 2 champs at most and 7 discard standard.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Deck Creation
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    posted a message on [Primer] UWr Midrange
    I personally have been running 3 Serum Visions since I built my version of the deck and I love them in the deck, it is great for helping after boarding as you said to help hit powerful hate cards. It smoothes out some otherwise clunky hands which is key with this deck because mulling hurts this deck more than a lot of others. I run 24 lands, with the 3 visions and vary rarely have mana issues. I also run 2 cryptics, 2 remand, 2 leak and 2 snare for my counter suite, and has been good, though at times leak feels the worst of the bunch. I find 4 bolt, 3 helix, 2 electroylzye to be plenty of burn for the burn their face plan with snappies and thhe card drawing, selection I have. Also I feel visions allows me to only run 3 geists and avoid a lot of those awkward double geist hand by scrying one away. I do not currently splash black, but may consider trying it just to see.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on [Primer] BW Tokens
    Quote from DHamlin »
    Since when is Bitterblossom a core card? I'll agree Souls/Procession are core.


    I think it has been at least for the last several months most BW tokens decks that do well run 3-4 Bitterblossoms for the most part
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Deck Creation
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    posted a message on [Primer] BW Tokens
    Quote from gabriel_404 »
    Hey guys, I've made a list of matchups, and please rate each them as good, slightly good, slightly bad, or terrible. This will help our sideboard plans, and also be a good info for new people on this deck, and last it will help determine if splashing R or G actually helps against the close matchups, vs just being better against good matchups.

    Burn (Atarka)
    Merfolk
    Zoo
    Elves
    Affinity
    Infect
    Bogles
    Abzan CoCo
    Soul Sisters
    D&T
    Abzan Liege
    Hatebears
    Abzan Ally/Aristocrats
    Classic Abzan (Junk)
    Jund
    U/R Delver
    Grixis Delver
    Temur Delver
    Grixis Control
    UW Control
    UWR Control
    UWR Geist
    Faeries
    U/R Twin
    Grixis Twin
    Temur Twin
    Scapeshift
    Scapeshift w/ Through the Breach
    Living End
    Ad Nauseum
    Amulet Bloom
    Grishoalbrand
    G/R Tron
    Mono-U Tron



    I don't know what I've left out. Obviously some of these are not big in every meta but some stores have weird stuff, like my store has two guys that play Abzan Ally/Aristocrats decks so I included it.

    If you guys post here, I will summarize all the answers. Please answer based on the core WB deck, not splashes, with the full 4 Souls, 4 Spectral, 4 Bitterblossom, and 4+ anthems.






    Well one's sideboard can determine how a match will go as well, are you just asking how game 1 is against each deck?
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Deck Creation
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    posted a message on [Primer] BW Tokens
    Quote from Spitlebug »
    I see Shambling Vents in some land bases. Verdict on it?

    Not wanting to speculate, but if there is another B/W fetchable land in Oath, are they just auto includes?


    No on auto includes because they come into play tapped without 2 basics, so while maybe I could see having one or 2 maybe, def needs testing.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Deck Creation
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    posted a message on [Primer] BW Tokens
    Quote from stewuseless »
    Quote from Vegas10 »
    Quote from stewuseless »
    Quote from iceraiin »
    Quote from stewuseless »

    I only splash red for Crumble to Dust and Wear // Tear. Otherwise it is straight WB. Other than fetches, I only run two Sacred Foundrys to give me access to the little red I need.


    Hello, i am new to the forum and following this thread for a long time now. I recently splashed red for sideboard options and would like to see your whole list. After work i will post my list.

    Best regards
    Here it is:


    As you can see, red is a very light splash. Basically for Crumble to Dust. Wear // Tear is just a bonus for splashing red.

    Why are you not playing Spectral Procession?


    The mana base is much easier without it. Spectral Procession, while good, is not worth it to me to bend-over backwards with the mana. There are many posts in this thread about the mana base as people try to figure out how to play spells that cost B, W, WW, 1BB and WWW. For just two colors, BW tokens mana base is stretched. Yes, Fetid Heath helps significantly, but not worth it in my opinion. Without Spectral Procession the need for Fetid Heaths is gone. This allows me to run Shambling Vent instead (which I find an amazing inclusion). Also, I like the fact that midnight haunting is an instant. It makes one fewer spirit, but being able to hold up mana for removal and then make two spirits end of turn is worth it. It also puts blue decks in a bind. Counter the end of turn spirits or wait for the possibility of something bigger. Anecdotally, I have snuck in many planeswalkers in after a counter went off on the spirits.


    First of all you are only running 2 lands that either don't produce White or can go get a land that does, so like all other BW toaken decks your manabase can easily support it, also if from time to time you have to pay 4 for it it's not that bad, heck you are willing to pay 3 for only 2 tokens in midnight haunting. Frankly I just don't agree wit you on any level, and really think you are making the deck worse by not including procession, it is a powerful enough card to make the manabase work for it in this deck, because of cards like Virtue and Sorin makes Procession insane. While the instant part of haunting does help it, this deck taps out to do so many other things all the time, that I just don't think it is as relevant as often as you try to make it out to be. Anyway goodluck to you sir.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Deck Creation
  • 1

    posted a message on [Primer] BW Tokens
    Quote from stewuseless »
    Quote from iceraiin »
    Quote from stewuseless »
    Quote from RoyalSlasher »
    So those of you who have experimented with Mardu:

    What are the actual payoff spells you get for playing with red? Bolt is kind of obvious, however imo not really necessary, Path does the job more then fine, and playing one or two-of Dismember or Murderous Cut is working as well, though neither of the options is great in the early game, but I want to cast hand disruption at that point anyway, and not beeing able to do so to cast Bolt will leave the opponent with more options early on, giving them a chance to resolve key spells.
    The other card you mentioned was Mardu Charm. Sure, it has quite a lot of flexibiliy, but neither of the modes is worth anything close to 3 mana, and I dont reallt think any of those modes is really needed either. We have Path, Dismember and Cut for removal, Inquisition and Thoughtseize for hand disruption and obvi Lingering Souls and Spectral Procession for Tokens.
    My main problem with splashing red is the cost for the mana base. I do already have 1 Vault, 2 Ghost Quarter (**** you Tron) and 1 Swamp, and not beeing able to cast Procession on turn 3 is hurting me already. So splashing Red would basically cost us the ability to play our second best card, which is not really worth it imo.

    I would however like to know your experience playing the Deck, mby I am just overvalueing the solid manabase, and small upgrades for some of the cards (mainly Bolt) could be doable.

    I only splash red for Crumble to Dust and Wear // Tear. Otherwise it is straight WB. Other than fetches, I only run two Sacred Foundrys to give me access to the little red I need.


    Hello, i am new to the forum and following this thread for a long time now. I recently splashed red for sideboard options and would like to see your whole list. After work i will post my list.

    Best regards
    Here it is:


    As you can see, red is a very light splash. Basically for Crumble to Dust. Wear // Tear is just a bonus for splashing red.


    Why are you not playing Spectral Procession?
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Deck Creation
  • 1

    posted a message on [Primer] BW Tokens
    Quote from ThisBorzi »
    I have been testing black white tokens with much success on cockatrice and am almost sold on getting the deck - but I can't decide on what list is the most effective. What are general opinions on spectral processions - is it a must have? I tried playing a few games with raise the alarm and secure the waste as replacements, and noticed that my mana was not only a lot more efficient, but also allowed me to take less damage (no more shock fetching out of fear that I could draw processions and not be able to cast it turn 3). Is the general opinion that a clunky mana base is worth playing a more powerful card? Would enjoy hearing from people who play the deck a lot!


    In my opinion Procession is a must have, a lot of times it is the best card in the deck especially with Virtue or Sorin in play, I think too many people are being too cute by not playing you are weakening the deck, adjust the mana base anyway necessary to make Procession fit, it turns on heath all by itself and can help win many a race, can trade 2 for one a lot, I can't go on enough about how much happier I am for spectral to be in my hand in this deck, yes from time to time you have to cast it for 4, honestly that isn't the end of the world, also IOK can't hit it I can go on and on why this card is a must have 4 of staple for this deck.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Deck Creation
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    posted a message on [Primer] UWr Midrange
    Played my list above at Premier IQ in Indy today

    RD1 VS Enduring Ideal deck 1-0 2-0
    Not much to say his deck wasn't really equipped to beat me

    RD2 Vs Grixis Faires 2-0 2-1
    Game 1 I thought he was Twin as I only Saw Pestermite, and Lavamancer won game
    Game 2 he drop T2 Bitterblossom, protects with spellstutter
    Game 3 I roll him hyper agro Geist in Resto Draw with burn

    Rd3 Vs Zoo (Doug Rice finished 6th) 1-2 2-1
    Lost game one to triple Boros charm had him next turn
    Game 2 I keep board clear early ride T3 gesit T4 resto to save it from Eidolon for win
    Game 3 I had to mull kept a bit risky hand and got beat

    Rd4 Vs Jund 2-0 3-1
    Beat him easy Game 1 and 2, I got geists and he never got Lilly

    Rd5 Vs Abzan Company (Logan Mize Finished 2nd) 1-2 3-2
    Beat him in as long game 1
    he values me out game 2 and I draw a lot of land
    game 3 I mull to 6 get stuck on 2 land for too long, he gets chord witness going that I can't stop

    Rd6 vs Grixis Twin 1-2 3-3
    Game 1 he gets pretty lucky, long game he is able to kolaghans for exarch, and 2 to my geist token plus bolt it, and block he has no cards, he rips twin off the top, I have him dead with geist if he doesn't rip had 4 in deck with about 30 cards left, it happens
    Game 2 I get him\
    Game 3 he was able to combo out, after ripping my counter spells out with 3 discard spells, I was ahead on board

    Dropped after that, again the deck is very competitive, I def could have won against zoo, and really should have beat twin but sometimes it gets lucky, the company deck feels like a tough matchup, really hurt I never drew my sidboarded Pyroclasms, but you have to play both the combo and the value of cards like company and chord very tough to do, especially with skites in te deck as well.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on [Primer] BW Tokens
    What matchups are improved by adding a green splash?


    When I was splashing green for Abrupt Decay it was helping the merfolk and Twin matchup, but adding more shocks def hurts the Burn match-up.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Deck Creation
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    posted a message on [Primer] BW Tokens
    Quote from ACID8000 »
    why some sideboards uses wrath of god? any specific matchup?
    Merfolk, Naya Company, Elves.

    Have the folks who run Wrath of God tested Engineered Explosives or Hour of Reckoning? Wrath of God seems more consistent, but I'm curious how actually casting Wrath has been. Is it easy to navigate games towards Wrath being in your favor? In those matchups, any type of disruption would be a start.


    I think Wrath is just more flexible for this deck than EE, since really only going to want EE for 1 mostly, while 2 is good against a lot it also gets our own intangible virtues and bitterblossoms at that setting, and while you could just hold them back if you have EE early, that won't always be the case making it a bit awkward, and really in modern how often would you go higher than 1 or 2 and we obv almost never would use the 0. While yes you may at times wrath a few tokens those are easily replenished.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Deck Creation
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    posted a message on [Primer] BW Tokens
    Quote from Cubsfan134 »
    Hey thanks guys. My rounds looked like this:

    Esper mill 2-1
    Naya burn 2-1
    RG tron 2-0 (I know right?!?!)
    Suicide zoo 2-1
    Grixis splashing lingering souls 2-1
    Naya burn 2-1

    Top 8

    Lost to emeria control 1-2 off a major punt.


    Ghostly prisons are mainly a concession to the merfolk MU, because I wanted another hose card pretty badly. It also comes in against coco elves which is pretty nice. Also Naya zoo lists have been on the rise lately and I expected a good deal of that this weekend so I upped my normal 1 to 2.

    First of all congrats,
    I Actually watched you play a bit there being a tokens player myself, though I was splasing green but after my 0-2 drop, going to prob get away from that, though in Chicago I did go 6-3, for 42nd, but yeah AD just doesn't seem worth the splash anymore. Anyway I watched you play the tron player pretty sure he punted game one badly, and game 2 your pro red dude was huge as he couldn't use his pyroclasm, definitely a card I will board in the future. Walking around the top 2 tables I did see a lot of merfolk which you managed to dodge, as well as naya burn, Jund, Grixis, Twin, not much Tron, and that UW Emeria deck you lost to is pretty sweet.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Deck Creation
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    posted a message on [Primer] BW Tokens
    Quote from jrw1 »


    Would there be a place in the deck for her?


    No too slow, to vulnerable, soesnt impact board when entering battlefield, just not good enough for modern
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Deck Creation
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    posted a message on [Primer] BW Tokens
    Quote from Mirage King »
    That's the best thing about BB. Comes out early and if it resolves... It stays most of the time.
    Abrupt Decay is really about the only thing, besides Mana Leak and Spell Snare, that is able to deal with it game one. Maindeck Auriok Champion is just weak against the rest of the field (barring your particular metagame situation) in a way that I don't want it and would rather rely on Sorin, Vault, and Timely to make up for BB's life loss. Now, if your metagame is mostly Jund, Grixis, Twin, Burn, Combo Elves, and Soul Sisters then by all means run maindeck Champion. In most other matchups, however, I would like the four to ten damage that Raise the Alarm tokens can do over the course of a game.


    I think Champion is solid Vs. Zoo, also.

    In a world of Abbots, Angler's, Splinter Twins, Burn, and and K-Commands it just seems too good not to run. Because most of the decks you listed are most of the decks I see all the time.
    I would actually argue that Champion is bad against Zoo. She doesn't block Nacatl, Pridemage, Goyf, or Knight. That matchup is all about nullifying the effectiveness of Kessig Wolf Run to just Fireball us, and so I don't think she is any better than our other creatures in that matchup. Assuming the debate is choosing between maindeck Raise the Alarm or Auriok Champion, I would choose Raise just for the surprise factor that sometimes you can sneak them out in front of a 2/2 Nacatl, a 1/2 Hierarch, or even a 1/2 Goyf.

    That's fine if you think your metagame is suited towards maindeck Auriok Champion. I've been there, done that, and defended it. But I also think all of those cards are in decks that we should already win against and so I like the early aggression that Raise the Alarm can provide that helps us steal game 1s from some of our bad matchups. I was lamenting elsewhere on the forums about how frustrating modern can be, that you have a reasonable deck choice but can have you entire tournament decided by the lottery that is matchups and pairings. In that case, I want cards that can be more proactive, which Champion isn't.


    While I do run a bit different version of tokens than most I agree with you on Champion, I feel while very good in some match ups, in others he is very poor making him a much better SB card than main, unless the metagame locally fits but if im going to a 5k or bigger tourney I don't care for champion in the main.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Deck Creation
  • 1

    posted a message on [Primer] BW Tokens
    Quote from jokerstyle00 »
    How much discard do people think is good?

    I'm running four Inquisition and two Thoughtseize.

    @Mirage King - I love having the classic Honor of the Pure/Intangible Virtue lurking underneath. Especially Virtue. "Oh you thought I was going to leave myself open? GUESS AGAIN." :p



    6 - 8 seems the norm, I like 6 or 7 usually
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Deck Creation
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    posted a message on Club Shinig Stars Charity Magic/Gaming Weekend Aug. 29-30 (Highland, IN)
    Come on bye for a fun weekend and supporting a great charity
    Posted in: Upcoming Events
  • 0

    posted a message on Club Shinig Stars Charity Magic/Gaming Weekend Aug. 29-30 (Highland, IN)
    updated some information
    Posted in: Upcoming Events
  • 0

    posted a message on [Primer] BW Tokens
    Vault is much better than foundry, and you don't want to run very many colorless lands due to how important it is to get WWW for spectral procession in this deck. And yeah most lists run 6 - 8 discard effects between IOK and Seize. I also have found Secure the Wastes underwhelming for the most part, though from time to time it has been a blow out. I like Timley's main much more with Bitterblossom version, but have run it main without, but yeah it should always be in the 75 somewhere.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Deck Creation
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    posted a message on [Primer] BW Tokens
    Quote from Caspian »
    Oops. I can't tell you how many cards I've gotten excited over because I didn't read their text properly...

    Well...not as strong but still a possibility. Without flying does Bunrei have a chance?



    no it doesn't too much work to set up and the possibility of no pay- off, unlike Timley which takes much less effort to work with a better pay off in a lot of match-ups, also Promise is vulnerable to AD which makes it even worse.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Deck Creation
  • 1

    posted a message on [Primer] BW Tokens
    Quote from BitterKing »
    Hmmm...after a bit of testing, the second swamp and extra isolated chaps don't really work well. Fetid heath is out of my budget right now but I was thinking about it.the nevermore is for this one guy in my playgroup that plays propaganda and that annoying Net where you must exile a card in your gy before you could attack.



    I'll be testing this revised, list. hopefully it does better, moved the nevermores to the SB again.

    hmmm...I play 4 BB cause it draws the discards my opponents have away from my other spells. I know, I have a weird playgroup. lol


    Pretty sure propaganda is not legal in modern, and even if it was there are better answers than nevermore. Also 3 colorless sources is too many especially when running chapels and heights. Spectral procession is something you want to almost always be able to pay 3 for only, I'd personally drop Elspeth as well and at least 1 dismember to get up to 4 raise the alarm.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Deck Creation
  • 0

    posted a message on Club Shinig Stars Charity Magic/Gaming Weekend Aug. 29-30 (Highland, IN)
    Hey everyone come out and support a good cause part of the proceeds from this gamming/magic weekend at Mythic Monsters goes to Club Shinning Stars which is a 501 3c charity that's goal is to provide recreation and education for individuals with special needs and their families. Following is a breakdown of the events and of course store address. 10% of all sales this weekend go to benefit Club Shining Stars (Check us and Mythic Monsters out on facebook)
    Sat Aug 29th Open (12:00 to 11:00)
    1230pm Pathfinder CCG
    Board Games All Day
    On Demand Booster Drafts and EDH
    Sat Night Modern Tournament 6PM (Prize out Modern Masters 2015 Booster Box) proceeds from this event benefit Club Shinig Stars
    50/50 Raffle
    Bake Sale by Club Shining Stars

    Sun Aug 30th (12:00 - 10:00)
    Lots of gaming all day
    Board and Miniture gaming
    On demand Booster Drafts and EDH
    50/50 Raffle
    Bake Sale by Club Shining Stars

    Mythic Monsters Gaming
    9501 Indianapolis BLVD, Highland 46322
    (219) 595-2231
    Posted in: Upcoming Events
  • 0

    posted a message on [Primer] BW Tokens
    I played my BWg tokens list I have posted here before in the premier IQ, slight SB change (2 Duress added, 2 smallpox out) in Chicago yesterday it was 9 rounds, I was 6-2 going into the final round win I get 21 a few slots behind the other Tokens player that did well he was 7-2, but I lost to affinity for 47th my breakers were bad, but all in all 6-3 and I think my deck was good, one of my losses was just to bad luck had to mull to 5 twice against merfolk, anyway I'll give a mini breakdown here and a few thoughts on my deck as well.
    on the day records Vs decks
    1-1 Vs Merfolk
    1-1 Vs Zoo (beat Collected, loss to more traditional)
    2-0 Vs Fairies
    1-0 Vs Jund
    1-0 Vs Burn
    0-1 Vs Affinity

    I still like the green splash for Abrupt Decay and though I only saw Township maybe twice all day both times it was very good.
    However Secure the Wastes was underwhelming, I think I may try some changes, also I am going to start trying Bitterblossom, however that may lead me back to a more traditional build eventually as I think that may make heights better, but not sure if playing those with my splash will work due to the existence of Blood Moon, but I will try to keep my Decays for now as they once again were good all day, though may go down to three to make this work. Prob have to get Timley's main too for that. All and all it was fun and I had a chance in the last round of getting in the money at least as well. I'll be happy to answer any questions and give a better breakdown of specific match ups if asked.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Deck Creation
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    posted a message on [Primer] BW Tokens
    Quote from GreatCrow »
    Got my hands on an Elspeth 2.0 the other day. Did some play testing last night against my roommate's UTron deck and she put in serious work. Still at 5cmc she's really clunky.


    Elspeth Tirel is really really good. I eventually cut her for the second Secure the Wastes just for its flexibility. But she can easily win against GBx decks in a way that I think makes her a better sideboard option than Blood Baron. She might be a solid trump card to come out of the board. The fact that she is able to ultimate the second turn she is in play and essentially does a one-sided wrath is amazing.

    Frank Lepore's videos were pretty solid. Fourth BB seems awkward. Deck needs at least the 23rd if not the 24th land. And having only four Paths as your removal seems awkward. I don't love how Frank sideboarded; I think Dismember and RIP need to come in against Grixis Delve in the fourth match and cutting Paths against Affinity seems bad when all you care about it exiling Overseer and whoever gets Ravager's counters. I can't remember if he took out discard against them, but if so, I don't love that because you have to snipe Etched Champion. Deck as an archetype looked decent, though.



    100% agree on the Delver thing bring in RIP and removal no doubt, as for affinity unfortunately keep in thoughtseize is a bit of a necessary evil to get champion.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Deck Creation
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    posted a message on [Primer] BW Tokens
    Quote from Walalawala »
    Hi all!!
    What side cards would you recommend in a heavy combo meta? There are ad nauseam, UR Storm/Past in flames, jeskai ascendancy and living end decks.
    Im going heavier with discards in the main deck, but would like to know some more side cards ^^.


    Rest in Peace for Living End, Rule of Law against storm decks is helpful and Ad Nauseam.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Deck Creation
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    posted a message on [Primer] BW Tokens
    Quote from CorwinOfAmber »
    Quote from Vegas10 »
    Abrupt decay was my mvp in almost every match, I'm glad I added these as I feel it gives the deck a lot more game against several decks. And the townsip is useful, I did use it a couple times throught the night it is like an extra anthem on crack and gives you a mana dump in games where flooding a bit could be doom, except now your flyers grow every turn.



    so do you think abrupt decay and green splash is worth the cut of windbrisk heights? and how was Smallpox performing? isn't liliana just better in this slot? (or the white edict that sacrifices an attacking creature - as BB might be sometimes a problem without at least 2-3 filterlands).



    I'm not the biggest advocate of Heights, I have always felt to cost of it coming into play tapped when you really needed an untapped land outweighed the times when it was great since half those times or more it was a win more cards for me, but yes it also can do some great things for the deck, That being said I have found the utility of AD and Township to just be way more consistently useful with almost no drawback ever. As far as smallpox that is an experiment in the sideboard I just tried this week to help against bloom titan and Tron mostly, however it happen to also serve a purpose against boggles, is lily a stronger card overall no question yes, but against those 2 decks I want Land D that can hurt them fairly quickly disrupt there hand a bit as well however it is possible this is a bad idea but would like to try it in those matches before just discarding the idea. Also with 9 fetches 4 shrines 2 chapels and a filter land, it's pretty rare I don't have BB on t2 if I want it. Another not in general by the way this deck is no more vulnerable to Blood Moon than the regular BW versions since I don't run heights, but Spreading seas was a big pain in my but in game 1 against merfolk as well but can be played around with the proper draws.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Deck Creation
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    posted a message on [Primer] BW Tokens
    I ran my Tokens deck splashing green again at a local modern tourney went 4-0 1st place, small sample size so far but since splashing green fro decays and a township I am 7-1 in matches with this deck, with the 1 loss to Bloom titan which I think is a bad match up for this deck. Anyway a brief summary of the tourney

    Round 1 Vs Bogles (2-0) (1-0)
    He punted hard game 1, game 2 believe it or not sideboarding 2 smallpoxes was huge against his rancored, armored dude, drop tokens and sorin, virtue gg

    Round 2 Restore balance thing (2-0)(2-0)
    He mulled to 4 game 1, gg
    game 2 I was able to seize him, decay 2 boderposts, while he did balnce away my tokens, holding a lingering souls still, with virtue in play was enough to recover for the win

    Round 3 Merfolk (2-1) (3-0)
    Game 1 he goes first gets me wit shadow of doubt vials double lord, into lord into master I get crushed
    game 2 I decay his t1 vial, virtue out and honor he tries to attack with double cursecatcher,with lord out, I have 5 lands secure the wastes for 2, block blow him out after that as I path lord as well
    Game 3 I Abrupt decay a lord at the right time, he wants to counter but can't gets me the win

    Round 4 Elves (2-1) (4-0)
    Game 1 I mull into a good hand vurtue into spectral, souls, virtue flash, he had a lot of mana dorks and druid, but never hit ezuri or company before I got him
    Game 2, he steamrolls me double CC, shrine ezuri
    Game 3 I IOK his Ezuri, abrupt the second, persecution several dorks, timley and spectral with virtue wins it.

    Abrupt decay was my mvp in almost every match, I'm glad I added these as I feel it gives the deck a lot more game against several decks. And the townsip is useful, I did use it a couple times throught the night it is like an extra anthem on crack and gives you a mana dump in games where flooding a bit could be doom, except now your flyers grow every turn.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Deck Creation
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    posted a message on [Primer] BW Tokens
    I posted a list, and I ave found them very useful, and don't really miss things like dismember and such, plus there are so many matchups they help in such as Twin, Bogels, Affinity, Anything running Blood Moon, The various B/Gx Decks, Tron a little as well. I personally like the decays alot.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Deck Creation
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    posted a message on [Primer] BW Tokens
    Fit in 2 temple garden, 9 fetches 4 shrine, 4 heath, 1 catacombs, seems to do the trick. I dont run heights at all currently
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Deck Creation
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    posted a message on [Primer] BW Tokens
    I have been splashing green now for a while , toggling between 3-4 abrupt decays and 1 gavony township, and all I can say is that it has been very positive and something I think people should consider.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Deck Creation
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    posted a message on [Primer] BW Tokens
    Played B/W tokens last week at our local GS weekly Modern, splashing green for Abrupt Decays and a Gavony Township

    Round 1 Beat Boggles 2-0, Decays were mvps in game 1, Game 2 wasn't close I crushed him, Sorin also saved me G1

    Round 2 Grixis Delver 2-0, Game 1 I rolled him, Game 2 took a while I was stuck on 2 lands a bit, but did get in a t2 Rest in Peace which hurts that deck quite a bit, drew my third and fourth lands to get rolling.

    Round 3 Bloom Titan 0-2, Game 1 he had near god hand t2 titan for 16, no path so I get rolled, Game 2 was a bit longer I think I misplayed a couple times, but he also was able to get an EE in play which obv is bad for us.

    Round 4 again Boggles, 2-0 He should have mulled game 1 his hand stunk, and game 2 he mulled to 5 and I had a great hand for beating boggles, decay, sundering growth, virtue, procession.

    glad to answer any questions or have any discussion.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Deck Creation
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    posted a message on [Primer] BW Tokens
    I'm up to 3 Bitterblossom online and have been really loving it. It makes for some far less clunky hands. Enabling the deck to play a solid game off of two lands enables you to keep some riskier hands. It enables a lot more nut draws it seems.


    Can you post you list?
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Deck Creation
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    posted a message on [Primer] BW Tokens


    So I played this in a local modern Tourney went 3-1
    Lost to Bloom Titan, he ripped like a savage severl times in game 3
    beat 8 Rack, Abzan, and Abzan Wilt-Leaf

    Comments
    The main deck Timley's were much better than I thought they would be, and never had them be awkward, could have just been random luck in a small sample size, but will keep them in for now to get more games in.
    Sideboard could use some work, I don't have auriok's there becasue I don't have them, if I did they would take Firewalker slot.
    The main deck Lily's I only drew one once and it was good when I did.
    Never saw Elspeth Tirel.
    As long as I keep an anthem in play the Abzan match up is very favorable.
    Think I could use a bit more disruption in the board for Bloom Titan.
    Any questions or comments would be appreciated, thanks.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Deck Creation
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    posted a message on Tournament Announcement: Charity Tournament for Club Shinning Stars
    stop on in tommorrow
    Posted in: Upcoming Events
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    posted a message on Tournament Announcement: Charity Tournament for Club Shinning Stars
    come on by for some fun
    Posted in: Upcoming Events
  • 0

    posted a message on Tournament Announcement: Charity Tournament for Club Shinning Stars
    One week away, come out for a fun day of MTG
    Posted in: Upcoming Events
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    posted a message on Tournament Announcement: Charity Tournament for Club Shinning Stars
    Please come out for a good cause.
    Posted in: Upcoming Events
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    posted a message on BW Midrange/ "Deadguy Ale"
    I see a lot of lists here with 6 colorless lands, which when I have tried it in the past when playing three drops like lily and brimaz lead to a lot of mulligans and awkward hands, while I understand the power of it when it works I lost many games due to this, I generally just run 2-3 and usually just tech edges, though I have gotten away from rats but with confidant possibly playable again I think that makes rats more appealing again, however I have found much success running a bladsplicer, resoration angel package in my decks, helps affinity match up a lot, and is great in attrition match ups such as Junk. Finks also can help mitigate some of the life loss this deck does to itself. I have also found hero to be great finisher as well. just some ideas I have tried, also I generally either go 4 or 0 on Sculler, lately they have been great before the bannings. However if decks like affinity and Zoo bounce back in a big way these get much worse.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on Tournament Announcement: Charity Tournament for Club Shinning Stars
    Please check us out
    Posted in: Upcoming Events
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    posted a message on Tournament Announcement: Charity Tournament for Club Shinning Stars
    my wife founded an organization called Club Shinning Stars which provides recreational and educational activities for individuals with special needs and their families. We started this in 2012 as a facbook group and has now grown into a full blown 501-3C charity organization that is affiliated with the Downs Syndrome Association in Nortwest Indiana. We both have personal reasons why we started this we have two special needs children, One very high functioning autistic, the other has Cerebal Palsy, Autism, and is thus far non-verbal among other issues this community has been great support for us and other families like ours in this area. A local store has been kind enough to host a MTG day at their store with a portion of the proceeds going to Club Shinning Stars, I will give a run down of what we are doing as well as links to the event and out facebook page following. Thanks for taking the time to read this and if you are near the Northwest Indiana area it would be great if you came.
    Event Location and time
    Feb 22
    Tenth Planet
    224 W Lincoln Hwy, Schererville, Indiana 46375
    Doors open 10:30 A.M.

    Prizes
    Based on attendance for each event will be booster packs of Fate Reforged or other standard boosters they have if you choose.

    Events
    11 A.M. Standard $10 per person
    1 P.M Modern $10 per Person
    On demand all day
    $20 Booster Drafts per person
    $5 Commander Per Person

    Links

    https://www.facebook.com/clubshiningstars

    https://www.facebook.com/events/312637185599061/?ref=4

    Posted in: Upcoming Events
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    posted a message on BW Midrange/ "Deadguy Ale"
    Quote from Petros »
    Thanks for reply, Vegas. So, is Deadguy still competitive deck? Do you have good results with it in this metagame?


    Yes it is competitive, but is it one of the best choices right now, probably not but I and others in here are trying to find the optimal build, once that happens then I think this can be answered more fully. I think the disruption package gives you game against almost anything, but I don't feel like you have any free wins, which going into a big tourney it is nice to have a few. I do feel it has good matchups and bad ones.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on BW Midrange/ "Deadguy Ale"
    Quote from Petros »
    Quote from SplashBros »
    Can mr Bob still be used in this deck? and if so whats the best list for him?


    I've got the same question ^^ Is Bob still core of the deck, when Delver and Burn go crazy?


    I wouldn't use him right now too many decks running burn packages that make him a big liability right now.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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