I agree wity the others. Black for tutoring in general, green for creature tutors, White for Kindred Boon and enchantment tutors. Possible addition of blue for more proliferate and then you end up with Atraxa.
You can make his bouncing and recurring of glacial chasms more painful with Polluted Bonds.
That is a great suggestion. All the removal suggestions are okay, because if it works he will need another card to return it to the battlefield (or when its exiled it might be a permanent solution), but if he returns it to his hand it only provides some time for an alpha strike. The problem is that his deck builds quite the board behind chasm. Its not a deck that does not attack, it just stalls and uses bounce on chasm to be able to attack. So an alpha strike will meet blockers.
Thanks, a lot of these suggestions are good. The problem was that most players at the table did not have targeted land removal and because the deck can bounce and return the land, and has multiple ways to play more than 1 land each turn, it is difficult to stop.
I did not specify my deck because it was literally a problem for all decks at the table. I played Tana and Tymna 2 games and Neheb 2 games (includes Strip Mine and Blood Moon). I have found some nice tech for my Tana deck though: Shivan Harvest!
I have encountered a bit of difficulty playing against a Mina and Denn deck that runs Glacial Chasm. It's pretty difficult to deal with as It's owner can put it back in hand using the commanders ability and the deck runs a lot of tutors and recursion for lands. I'm trying to figure out which strategies I can include in my decks that are useful to deal with this particular card but also useful against other deck.
I was thinking the following:
- Land destruction combined with graveyard removal
- Anti-tutor cards
- Recurring removal of the commander (to make bouncing it more difficult)
- Strategies focused on life drain instead of damage (Kokusho, the Evening Star et al)
- Land exile spells (as response to recurring it to the hand by the owner)?
Do you know of any more cards or strategies? Have you played against this kind of strategy before? Please let me know
Another to be Neheb player here. I really think Darksteel Plate is good for this deck, as is Magebane Armor It helps Neheb survive through all the mass damage, and Darksteel Plate also really facilitates the infinite attack step kill with Aggravated Assault as no amount of combat damage is going to kill Neheb and you will win through either combat damage or the afflict life loss.
How do you guys feel about Malignus? Just connecting with him once will result in huge mana.
Also, does this deck not require some lifegain of it's own? You'll often be damaging yourself as well. Could Eternity Vessel or Aetherflux Reservoir have a place in this deck or it it too slow? +
Fortune Thief would allow us to just nuke everybody for a gazillion and be the only one left standing.
Magebane doesnt do enough for the mana, I think. Darksteel Plate could be included, I dont know what to cut yet.
Steel Hellkite is definitely one of the cards I love with Neheb.
It's a card that, with your general, basically pays for itself. And that are the kind of effects I would love to see.
Sadly Steel Hellkite is one of the few that do things like this.
Ps. Flame Rift, how could you forget this?
With the General in play this is 1R for RRRR times number of opponents.
I like Steel Hellkite. Flame Rift is too little of an effect without Neheb. And with him in play I would rather play creatures that can deal damage every turn or large spells.
You know, I don't exactly know what the "spirit of EDH" is that people regularly talk about, but I'm pretty sure that Overwhelming Splendor is the exact opposite.
Eh, it's not as bad as the original Humility, it only targets on player in a multiplayer game, and is remarkable expensive. If it was entirely one-sided, maybe, but it's not really all that big a deal for the hoops you have to jump through to make it an actual problem.
The fact that it only targets one player makes it more fair to play in general, but more unfair to that person Btw: another expensive enchantment for Academy rector
I'd be dead if I spent my first five turns not playing any disruption. Although our metas are vastly different, adding more rocks to your build will facilitate more explosive early game shenanigans. I'm casting Neheb by turn three on average, and often on turn two.
Ok. I played the first few turns with your deck a few times (15 times or so) and I can confirm you can have him in play by turn 2 sometimes. But I also ended up with quite a few low land hands, even with Mulligans, and although the commander came down early, I did not get any big spells many times. Which kind of made all the artifacts and pingers useless. And it begs the question what you will cast if your commander is dealt with. My game plan is just to further develop my board dropping creatures other people have to deal with. But as I said, there are no T4 combo kills in my meta.
I've player a bit of solitair with nu pak list and realised that MLD is really potent with thuis general. I'm used to running MLD as a closing strategy in aggro decks that look to break parity (such as Kaalia) and believe your list will do well. Im not really sold on the pingers though.
The pingers are essentially Grim Monoliths with no drawback.
I run some too, but if you have too many, they clog up your hands. Late game they don't do as much as they don't scale well.
What's your average converted mana cost? How is your build faring against combo? What's your early game (before turn five) looking like? By what turn are you typically casting your commander?
What are your thoughts on adding more mana rocks along with mass land removal?
The average CMC currently sits at a whopping 4.50. Much higher than my other decks. The dude does generate extra mana pretty quickly and if you want to capitalize on that, it makes sense to play larger spells with more impact. I do agree that it might need more rocks to get to that point sooner. I've only played the deck 'solo' until know and it generally plays out like this: turn 1-5 play lands, try to filter draws, play ramp/equipement/small utility guy and then play commander (T4-5) and fatties pretty soon after. Sometimes you don't grab a wheel after that and you are left with a pretty empty hand... sometimes you can cast stuff like Kozilek and you must be able to dominate. I need to play more hand, ideally against some opponents, so I can refine this list.
I'm pretty sure this list would not be able to defeat fast combo decks. They aren't run in my meta so I don't really build my decks with them in mind. A late game combo deck is not ging to win against this, I think, as we've got annihilators and some MLD to ruin their party.
I've player a bit of solitair with my decklist and realised that MLD is really potent with this general. I'm used to running MLD as a closing strategy in aggro decks that look to break parity (such as Kaalia) and believe your list will do well. Im not really sold on the pingers though.
That is a great suggestion. All the removal suggestions are okay, because if it works he will need another card to return it to the battlefield (or when its exiled it might be a permanent solution), but if he returns it to his hand it only provides some time for an alpha strike. The problem is that his deck builds quite the board behind chasm. Its not a deck that does not attack, it just stalls and uses bounce on chasm to be able to attack. So an alpha strike will meet blockers.
I did not specify my deck because it was literally a problem for all decks at the table. I played Tana and Tymna 2 games and Neheb 2 games (includes Strip Mine and Blood Moon). I have found some nice tech for my Tana deck though: Shivan Harvest!
Zo-Zu, the Punisher and Ankh of Mishra and Manabarbs are too.
I was thinking the following:
- Land destruction combined with graveyard removal
- Anti-tutor cards
- Recurring removal of the commander (to make bouncing it more difficult)
- Strategies focused on life drain instead of damage (Kokusho, the Evening Star et al)
- Land exile spells (as response to recurring it to the hand by the owner)?
Do you know of any more cards or strategies? Have you played against this kind of strategy before? Please let me know
Magebane doesnt do enough for the mana, I think. Darksteel Plate could be included, I dont know what to cut yet.
Malignus: sadly no evasion, but I might try him.
Fortune Thief: too niche. Useless the most time.
I like Steel Hellkite. Flame Rift is too little of an effect without Neheb. And with him in play I would rather play creatures that can deal damage every turn or large spells.
- Sword of Light and Shadow
+ Mountain
+ Sword of War and Peace - switched to pro Red to get Neheb to survive spells like Earthquake
- Kiki-Jiki Mirror Breaker
- Grab the Reins
- Zealous Conscripts
- Braid of Fire
- Quietus Spike
+ Combustible Gearhulk
+ Faithless Looting
+ Kozilek, the Great Distortion
+ Decree of Annihilation
+ Boom/Bust
The fact that it only targets one player makes it more fair to play in general, but more unfair to that person
I agree that this card has a lot of potential. However, I wil just put it in the 99 and enjoy it.
Hailfire is indeed not really the same as Exaanguinate. But why not run both in MBC?
Ok. I played the first few turns with your deck a few times (15 times or so) and I can confirm you can have him in play by turn 2 sometimes. But I also ended up with quite a few low land hands, even with Mulligans, and although the commander came down early, I did not get any big spells many times. Which kind of made all the artifacts and pingers useless. And it begs the question what you will cast if your commander is dealt with. My game plan is just to further develop my board dropping creatures other people have to deal with. But as I said, there are no T4 combo kills in my meta.
I run some too, but if you have too many, they clog up your hands. Late game they don't do as much as they don't scale well.
The average CMC currently sits at a whopping 4.50. Much higher than my other decks. The dude does generate extra mana pretty quickly and if you want to capitalize on that, it makes sense to play larger spells with more impact. I do agree that it might need more rocks to get to that point sooner. I've only played the deck 'solo' until know and it generally plays out like this: turn 1-5 play lands, try to filter draws, play ramp/equipement/small utility guy and then play commander (T4-5) and fatties pretty soon after. Sometimes you don't grab a wheel after that and you are left with a pretty empty hand... sometimes you can cast stuff like Kozilek and you must be able to dominate. I need to play more hand, ideally against some opponents, so I can refine this list.
I'm pretty sure this list would not be able to defeat fast combo decks. They aren't run in my meta so I don't really build my decks with them in mind. A late game combo deck is not ging to win against this, I think, as we've got annihilators and some MLD to ruin their party.