Nah, I died. Luckily someone cast 2 creature spells nearby
I haven't played magic in a long time, but this set is too nice to pass up. List I posted hasn't lost yet, paper or Trice. Good Speed, strong value. It actually has a decent sideboard and mana base, which I never have so that could be why I've had success.
4. They should print foil packs like they did in alara. I'm guessing they didn't sell well or something... but hey, with the magic player base growing, maybe it could work again? I would like to do an all foil draft
Dude, those foil packs were the bomb.
I've heard a lot about apparently big retailers are purposefully slowing Jace sales to gouge the price. Anyone confirm or deny? It would make sense, Jace is a good solid card and he has high demand but He's not worth 80 dollars in the slightest.
Part of the problem with the secondary market is these big retailers sorta set the price and the playerbase is ravenous enough to pay it no matter what it is. I mean, even if everybody banded together and refused to buy cards unless their price was lowered I'm sure someone would be out there buying them so they could have a tiny edge over the people trying to influence the market.
Also, the price of these decks are nuts. at this point, my GF is wanting to get into magic and it might be cheaper for me to buy her Tron or soemthing. Standard is more expensive that Modern now. What happened?
Been having good luck with this. Its a bit different from how I normally like my lists but results don't lie. I'm still not sure if or how the landbase is working. Suggestions?
EDIT: Forgot to say, Rusalka puts in work. I love having a sac engine. The fact that it costs mana to activate sucks, but I think that Viscera Seer's effect is a bit meh
As for this talk about Haakon, if you guys want to play him you should probably look up the primer for Junk Haakon Loam, it might be another deck that might interest you guys.
Haakon Loam is essentially my oldest successful DredgeVine list without Vengevines, or the blue Support. #Hipster #DidItFirst
I think its kinda funny how DredgeVine builds have kinda cycled around back to using some Dredge and Dredge enablers with other utility things. Maybe all in will get popular again and then back to all 1 drop red Dredgevine. Looking at TWoo's sideboard makes me want to try the Loam+Tec Edge in the side thing. Some land disruption would be really nice against tron and Bloom Titan, albeit Tec edge is pretty garbage vs Bloom
There is currently an interesting post about Dredgevine on Reddit. I know the OP has been testing Dredgevine a lot and also has seen/used my lists. OP recommends some Dredge and maybe that's right! I think it is worth a read.
I just started to test Stinkweed Imps again and so far it sped up the deck considerably. Maybe some dredge in moderation is the way to go. I am OK with Stinkweed Imp as long as I can use it. At least it is a good carrier of Varolz counters.
A couple pages back, I posted a list that ran 5 dredge cards with Desperate Ravings. I ended up seeing much more of my deck without losing any pressure. I believe that something similar to this is the way to go
That's not what I would call a perfect parallel. Lackey doesn't enable ASAP if you play it turn 2. People always forget that. T1 Crab is almost completely worse than t2 crab because of the fact it can do something the turn it enters the battlefield. Unless you have nothing else to do turn 1, always wait to play Crab
I was addressing his argument so I think what I said still applies, but yes you are probably completely correct that turn 2 crab is better, good point.
I meant that to further quash his point on it does nothing when you play it.
I have kinda wanted to try a singleton Jarad again, but it feels just so expensive at 4 mana. I ran him as a singleton back in the old Haakon days, which is another thing I would like to revisit
There is no such thing as a "less aggressive, more midrange dredgevine", and if there was it would be awful. The only reason of why some creature decks sacrifice speed is to play disruption such as counters, hatebears, or discard. We don't want to run any of those things. Therefore we should not sacrifice speed for absolutely nothing, and we should continue to try to be as fast as possible. You could make an argument for sacrificing speed for consistency or protection from hate, but we don't have a lot of options there. Bottom line is that Sidsi is unplayable in this deck.
Somebody asked about Forbidden Alchemy, and this is exactly why it's unplayable too, it's way too slow and not what we want to be doing on turn 3 or any turn for that matter. I've found Grisly Salvage to be too slow and that does more for less mana.
As far as Hedron Crab goes, again, if you don't want to play that in a dredgevine list with blue, you might as well not play goblin lackey in a legacy goblins list. It is weak and doesn't do anything until the turn after you play it. Birds of paradise or noble hierarch? Forget them, they also have the same problem. It's really silly logic... play the best cards, because if your opponent can deal with it, whatever, and if they can't, they are probably going to lose.
That's not what I would call a perfect parallel. Lackey doesn't enable ASAP if you play it turn 2. People always forget that. T1 Crab is almost completely worse than t2 crab because of the fact it can do something the turn it enters the battlefield. Unless you have nothing else to do turn 1, always wait to play Crab
I disagree 100%. Hooting Mandrills has trample, which helps us push through damage. Both Angler & Mandrills pass the Bolt test, but extra points of damage are necessary with this deck. A 5/5 vanilla creature without any abilities is terrible in a competitive tournament. Also, I believe off the top of my head Angler makes you delve one more card, which might be harder to achieve in the early game. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
In what world is it not relevant? Granted it is not the first thing you want to be doing with your mana, but still...if you are in top deck mode with your mana, it mills you 2 and gives you something back. It might not be your first choice, but something from your graveyard is either more removal or a free creature to cast from your yard. I agree it's mana intensive, but options are what makes this deck so much fun and strategic!
Yes it is one delve card more, which might be harder to achieve in the early game. Except that if you are wrecking your grave to cast these delve-men in the early game, I've found you put yourself more behind than ahead.
I tested a bit with Mandrills and almost never found the trample relevant... If you did take the early game route, trample barely matters, you've got a huge creature. It's like complaining about goyf not having trample. You're beating down and they usually don't want to block... so what if it doesn't have trample. If you play it as one of the last cards in your hand, which I found to be the better route, usually you still have a lot more creatures than them and trample is only relevant sometimes.
If you talk about wanting trample to be more aggressive, I'd argue that having a 5/5 that can bring back gravecrawlers and thus VVines is actually more aggressive than a 4/4 with an ability that is only semi-relevant. I mean hey, they chump your Angler and take 4 from a Vine, or they chump a Vine and take 4 from Mandrills. This is just one of many examples where I find trample to be lackluster.
But again, I'd like to restate that I am not sure about Angler being better than Mandrills.
What I am confident about, is that Angler is better than Tasigur. Tasigur is easily the worst of the 3. If you ever actually use his ability, you're probably dead. And even if you're not, you get a crap card out of your grave. Woo Hoo. A 4/5 body with nothing else going for it is strictly worse than the 4/4 trample you get with Mandrills. And I'll definitely exile another card to get a 5/5 which can bring back Crawlers and VVines consistently, and for much less mana than what Tasigur offers.
I'm going to test with Angler and Mandrills and see, each time I get one, if I wish it were the other. Then hopefully I'll be more confident on which is better. But I'm not going to test with Tasigur, because that would be a waste of my ******* time; as far as I'm concerned people just want to play him because they'd rather have a rare in their deck.
Tasigur is much better in a grindy lategame scenario when you are attempting to Topdeck something you need to break a stalemated board. You cannot look at cards just based on one circumstance. I believe Tasigur has enough going for him in both value in tight scrapes that gives him the nod over Angler, and the extra toughness vs Siege Rhino which is very good against DredgeVine is extremely Relevant. The one extra cost on Angler also limits your ability to make explosive plays which is a very big thing for this deck. If Wizards of the Coast printed a Lotleth Troll variant that costed 3 but was amazingly better than LolTroll, we still would most likely not use it because the loss of 1 turn is major in a deck that wants to flood the board as quickly as possible. Sure it might not matter turns 3 or 4, but in one of situations where delve creatures are strongest is their ability to be big very early with very little input. I would also ask that you try to remain a bit more civil Tom.
I am fiddling around with Flex Slots right now, and I really don't want to go above 28 creatures. Currently my suite of spells is 4 Faithless Looting, 3 Abrupt Decay, 3 Desperate Ravings. Since I am firmly back in 4 color, I have been loving Ravings much much more than Grisly, especially because I run 2 Grave-Troll for value. The more of your deck you see, the more you can play since even our graveyard is our hand.
Bolt just does more then axe, although I don`t think axe is like terrible
While Axe passes the Goyf test for the most part, the ability to go to the face and the unreliability of the sometimes upside, sometimes downside of axe makes bolt the better choice for the most part.
Preview from the noncreature spells section of the updated thread, subsection removal.
EDIT: I just double checked, and your 5/2 MTGO list on the front page was my old Daily Stomper list
I haven't played magic in a long time, but this set is too nice to pass up. List I posted hasn't lost yet, paper or Trice. Good Speed, strong value. It actually has a decent sideboard and mana base, which I never have so that could be why I've had success.
4 Vengevine
4 Bloodghast
4 Gravecrawler
4 Prized Amalgam
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Hedron Crab
3 Asylum Visitor
SPELLS
4 Faithless Looting
3 Lightning Axe
1 Life from the Loam
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Overgrown Tomb
2 Blood Crypt
2 Watery Grave
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Llanowar Wastes
1 Sulfurous Springs
4 Ancient Grudge
3 Gnaw to the Bone
3 Darkblast
3 Thoughtseize
2 Back to Nature
Dude, those foil packs were the bomb.
I've heard a lot about apparently big retailers are purposefully slowing Jace sales to gouge the price. Anyone confirm or deny? It would make sense, Jace is a good solid card and he has high demand but He's not worth 80 dollars in the slightest.
Part of the problem with the secondary market is these big retailers sorta set the price and the playerbase is ravenous enough to pay it no matter what it is. I mean, even if everybody banded together and refused to buy cards unless their price was lowered I'm sure someone would be out there buying them so they could have a tiny edge over the people trying to influence the market.
Also, the price of these decks are nuts. at this point, my GF is wanting to get into magic and it might be cheaper for me to buy her Tron or soemthing. Standard is more expensive that Modern now. What happened?
4 Hedron Crab
4 Gravecrawler
4 Vengevine
4 Lotleth Troll
3 Birds of Paradise
3 Drowned Rusalka
2 Hooting Mandrills
2 Shambling Shell
2 Satyr Wayfinder
1 Skaab Ruinator
1 Gurmag Angler
SPELLS
4 Faithless Looting
1 Darkblast
1 Life from the Loam
2 Murderous Cut
1 Breeding Pool
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
1 Steam Vents
2 Overgrown Tomb
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Watery Grave
3 Ancient Grudge
2 Gnaw to the Bone
1 Darkblast
3 Golgari Charm
2 Rakdos Charm
2 Sowing Salt
2 Spellskite
Been having good luck with this. Its a bit different from how I normally like my lists but results don't lie. I'm still not sure if or how the landbase is working. Suggestions?
EDIT: Forgot to say, Rusalka puts in work. I love having a sac engine. The fact that it costs mana to activate sucks, but I think that Viscera Seer's effect is a bit meh
Haakon Loam is essentially my oldest successful DredgeVine list without Vengevines, or the blue Support. #Hipster #DidItFirst
I think its kinda funny how DredgeVine builds have kinda cycled around back to using some Dredge and Dredge enablers with other utility things. Maybe all in will get popular again and then back to all 1 drop red Dredgevine. Looking at TWoo's sideboard makes me want to try the Loam+Tec Edge in the side thing. Some land disruption would be really nice against tron and Bloom Titan, albeit Tec edge is pretty garbage vs Bloom
A couple pages back, I posted a list that ran 5 dredge cards with Desperate Ravings. I ended up seeing much more of my deck without losing any pressure. I believe that something similar to this is the way to go
I meant that to further quash his point on it does nothing when you play it.
I have kinda wanted to try a singleton Jarad again, but it feels just so expensive at 4 mana. I ran him as a singleton back in the old Haakon days, which is another thing I would like to revisit
That's not what I would call a perfect parallel. Lackey doesn't enable ASAP if you play it turn 2. People always forget that. T1 Crab is almost completely worse than t2 crab because of the fact it can do something the turn it enters the battlefield. Unless you have nothing else to do turn 1, always wait to play Crab
Because I am too lazy to sort my own decklists
Ravings vs Grisly is an interesting question. Maybe I should make room for both, but I feel uncomfortable dropping Abrupt Decay
Tasigur is much better in a grindy lategame scenario when you are attempting to Topdeck something you need to break a stalemated board. You cannot look at cards just based on one circumstance. I believe Tasigur has enough going for him in both value in tight scrapes that gives him the nod over Angler, and the extra toughness vs Siege Rhino which is very good against DredgeVine is extremely Relevant. The one extra cost on Angler also limits your ability to make explosive plays which is a very big thing for this deck. If Wizards of the Coast printed a Lotleth Troll variant that costed 3 but was amazingly better than LolTroll, we still would most likely not use it because the loss of 1 turn is major in a deck that wants to flood the board as quickly as possible. Sure it might not matter turns 3 or 4, but in one of situations where delve creatures are strongest is their ability to be big very early with very little input. I would also ask that you try to remain a bit more civil Tom.
I am fiddling around with Flex Slots right now, and I really don't want to go above 28 creatures. Currently my suite of spells is 4 Faithless Looting, 3 Abrupt Decay, 3 Desperate Ravings. Since I am firmly back in 4 color, I have been loving Ravings much much more than Grisly, especially because I run 2 Grave-Troll for value. The more of your deck you see, the more you can play since even our graveyard is our hand.
While Axe passes the Goyf test for the most part, the ability to go to the face and the unreliability of the sometimes upside, sometimes downside of axe makes bolt the better choice for the most part.
Preview from the noncreature spells section of the updated thread, subsection removal.