2 Esper Control lists day 2'd at SCG Indy. The list on camera had some number of Lingering Souls, Spell Queller, Serum Visions, JTMS, and Teferi.
I scrubbed out at 3-2-1 personally. Both losses were to Mardu Pyromancer, one match 0-2 in round 2 and one 1-2 in round 6. I can say with confidence that 1 game in each of those matches was lost to shortsighted thinking. Round 2 with a misused Cryptic Command (countering an ultimately irrelevant K-Command instead of saving it for Bedlam Reveler) and Round 5 actually by not being greedier with Surgical Extraction. I had wins against Goblins, GW Company, and Jeskai, and a draw to Tron.
UWx is legitimate right now on the back of how strong Search for Azcanta and Teferi are. I don't think mainboard it really matters whether you run UW straight, Jeskai, or Esper. Similarly, the strength of the aforementioned cards mean that flex slots, such as Lingering Souls, or differences in counterspells, or which cantrips you run, or whether you run 6 spot removal vs. 7 etc., ultimately does not matter. I do like the discard suite out of Esper's sideboard.
For reference, I ran 2 Teferi, 1 Jace, 1 WSZ, 1 Rev, 2 Opt, 2 Think Twice, and 3 board wipes in the main.
My sideboard was 3 Thoughtseize, 2 Collective Brutality (which I dearly believe it is a mistake to not play. It is incredibly flexible.), 2 Surgical, 1 Night of Souls', 1 Settle, 1 EE, 1 Dispel, 2 Clique, 1 Timely, and 1 Runed Halo.
Hello everyone! I'm back. Has anyone here played Meddling Mage in the sideboard? I think it could be interesting against combo and tron, so I'll try it. Any feedback?
There were a number of people trying Meddling Mage in the SB in... 2016? It seems narrow compared to the black discard spells but it could be worth trying again.
I never cut Cryptic to 0, but I usually cut from 3-4 to 1-2 vs. faster decks. Negates and Logic Knots are usually the first cuts vs. creature decks. I'll tend to cut Negate before LK (except against Burn), and the 1st Cryptic before the 1st LK (except against Cavern of Souls). I cut a land on the draw a lot. Cantrips get cut quite a bit, too. I'm running 2 Teferi/1 Jace/1 WSZ right now, so I'll cut planeswalkers and bring in creatures vs. some of the faster decks.
You guys are waaaay underestimating Collective Brutality. After playing with it more, I'd say it may be the best of the 3 cards that are the reason to be Esper over Jeskai (the others being Night of Souls' Betrayal and Thoughtseize).
I'll be at SCG Indi in a couple weekends. Last big tournament I played Breach Moon, so I'm excited to bring Esper to the big leagues again. Last time I did was when Git probe was still in the format and I got turn 3 Infected out of the tournament while holding Blessed Alliance and Condemn in hand.
Cody and a few others touched on it a page back or two. I am finding it increasingly difficult to justify playing Esper. The elephant in the room is - Why Esper over Jeskai? Electrolyze vs. Esper Charm. Lightning Bolt vs. Fatal Push. How do we define ourselves both as "Draw Go" and not be a "worse Jeskai?"
The easiest question then to ask is: Why play black?
Collective Brutality also shows up quite a bit, which makes sense with the cards versatility (especially vs. Burn). Beyond that, I'd argue Night of Souls' Betrayal is somewhat underplayed. And... that's it. This is what we give up Bolt for. This is what we give up the clock and corner-turning ability for.
Is it worth it?
We have to be better against combo decks. That said, this statement is likely less true if one does not run Surgical Extraction. Beyond that, where are we better? Where are we worse? We are likely worse against Humans and Affinity, no matter how many Fatal Push and Wrath of God we shoehorn in. Are we better or worse vs. Tron and Jund? I honestly don't know. Jund is a match up that has likely suffered with the rebirth of Bloodbraid Elf and the lack of Think Twice in our current builds.
Another issue I have run into is that the Jeskai vs. Esper match up, which I once thought incredibly favorable, does not feel favorable anymore (at least preboard). This could admittedly be due to the fact that I can count the number of tournaments I've played in the last year+ on my hands, but I feel as if things have changed. We tend to run less of a critical mass of card advantage spells than we used to (Think Twice is the most notable absence). We also tend to run more creature hate (board wipes) and "dead air" in the control match up, such as Blessed Alliance, while most of Jeskai's "dead" cards can be pointed upstairs. They run more Snapcaster Mage than we do, which is one of the strongest cards in a control mirror. I believe we also used to run more counterspells than they did, but this has also changed, with 8 being the stock Jeskai counterspell number (3 Logic Knot, 4 Cryptic Command, 1 Spell Snare or Negate) and many of my current brews having only 7. Now, with a sideboard chock full of discard spells, Surgicals, and the odd Dispel, postboard games feel dominating. But to lose that game 1 slog is more often than not debilitating.
I've been on Blue Moon since the unbannings and with the most recent couple of tournaments, I'm really eyeing Esper again. A sideboard chock full of silver bullets like Runed Halo, Rest in Peace, and Night of Souls' Betrayal, as well as the timeless classics of Engineered Explosives and Dispel seems incredibly powerful. I'll have to play with it, as I do not know what I would like the mainboard to look like. I have not really played Esper since Jace was unbanned.
My biggest issue with something like Shackles is that a lot of decks you want both Blood Moon and Shackles, and you're giving them more targets for their hate cards for Blood Moon. Of course, this could be a good thing in some cases.
I'm currently running a 3 Blood Moon/3 Jace/4 Breach/3 Emrakul build. From my limited playtesting so far, Jund seems alright. I feel favored overall. G Tron feels incredibly favored. Humans feels unwinnable. What are people doing for the humans match up?
Amelak's #5 is exactly where I ended up. Esper Draw Go has always been stretched thin and Jace's existence makes other blue decks far more of a threat. I don't think there's any reason to play it anymore. Discard spells to push Jace through and Lingering Souls to protect is the first thing I'd try.
Can storm do anything if you bring in both Leyline and Runed Halo? Their number of answers for enchantments seems limited to 1-2 ofs of Echoing Truth (or a similar bounce) and Swan Song.
I'm trying to get back into MTG again. There's a GP or SCG of some flavor near me in the fall I want to say. I intend to start practicing now.
Questions:
1) How have people been doing against Grixis Death's Shadow?
2) Who has been cutting Think Twice? Who has been running Serum Visions?
3) Have any Cycle cards from the new sets stood out?
4) How many lands have you been running?
5) Have people cut down on Ghost Quarters?
6) Has anyone tried Spell Pierce to combat all the low land count decks?
7) Where are people at on Spell Snare?
I played one small tournament. Got run over by humans. Hatebears is also gaining quite a bit of popularity. Fatal Push is practically worthless against Eldrazi. I feel like if there's a world in which you run the full playset of board wipes, or maybe even 5, we're in it. I'm also crazy on the idea of packing multiple Dispels in the SB to combat DS and CoCo decks. Maybe even Spell Pierce since their land counts are so low.
Silver bullets for facing Tron are hard to run because they aren't useful in [m]any other match ups. The sideboard needs to be able to improve as many match ups as possible. Cards like Thoughtseize, Dispel, Surgical Extraction, Blessed Alliance, Leyline of Sanctity, Dispel, and Runed Halo can be brought in against a large number of decks while still improving the match up to a fair degree. Cards that are only good against Tron or one other deck, like land hate, Stony Silence, Slaughter Games esque effects, Bribery, even Vendilion Clique - there's just not enough room.
You can go heavy on Black or straight UB, but I don't see the point. White is the the overwhelming king of SB cards in Modern. Leyline, Runed Halo, Stony Silence, Timely Reinforcements, Rest in Peace, board wipes, Blessed Alliance, arguably the strongest planeswalkers in the format. Fatal Push theoretically helps one of our decks foremost weaknesses: early aggro (ex. Burn and Infect) putting us out of the game before we can make our land drops. With that in mind, why completely retool? I would start with the base list and add the new card. If that doesn't work out - if we get worse, for example, then back to the drawing board. The belief is that the metagame might shift towards more early removal being played w/ Fatal Push being everywhere. That's good for us! We don't care too much outside of Colonnade getting hit by it. That, to me, makes WSZ more attractive, if people will have 4 Fatal Push instead of cards like Bolt and Terminate to hit Colonnade. But that's where I'm at until I get to play again.
And Esper [Charm] will beat any other UB(x) any day of the week.
Reducing the number of manlands seems dangerous with this card coming into the meta. I don't think our mana will need to change much if we're running a small quantity of this card, only if it comes to actually replace Paths or Supreme Verdicts. If that's the case, we will want more black sources. Marsh Flats seem out of the question. I don't want to run more than 8 Fetches and the blue ones will always reign supreme. I don't think it and Spell Snare are interchangeable. You hit Goyf and Bob and things of that sort with it, but Spell Snare will always be the cleanest answer to Plating, Snapcaster Mage, Eidolon, and weird things like Voice of Resurgence.
Fatal Push is incredible. Condemn and Dismember and whatever other options always had dead moments. This does too, admittedly, but the decks that this is dead against are lower in number than Condemn. I would 100% run 4 Path and 2 Fatal Push before any other removal options. The name of the early game is mana efficiency and this card gives it. Blessed Alliance is a sideboard card and can be played around. This will win games when we have 6 main deck turn 1 answers to Glistener Elf, Hierarch, or Goblin Guide.
I scrubbed out at 3-2-1 personally. Both losses were to Mardu Pyromancer, one match 0-2 in round 2 and one 1-2 in round 6. I can say with confidence that 1 game in each of those matches was lost to shortsighted thinking. Round 2 with a misused Cryptic Command (countering an ultimately irrelevant K-Command instead of saving it for Bedlam Reveler) and Round 5 actually by not being greedier with Surgical Extraction. I had wins against Goblins, GW Company, and Jeskai, and a draw to Tron.
UWx is legitimate right now on the back of how strong Search for Azcanta and Teferi are. I don't think mainboard it really matters whether you run UW straight, Jeskai, or Esper. Similarly, the strength of the aforementioned cards mean that flex slots, such as Lingering Souls, or differences in counterspells, or which cantrips you run, or whether you run 6 spot removal vs. 7 etc., ultimately does not matter. I do like the discard suite out of Esper's sideboard.
For reference, I ran 2 Teferi, 1 Jace, 1 WSZ, 1 Rev, 2 Opt, 2 Think Twice, and 3 board wipes in the main.
My sideboard was 3 Thoughtseize, 2 Collective Brutality (which I dearly believe it is a mistake to not play. It is incredibly flexible.), 2 Surgical, 1 Night of Souls', 1 Settle, 1 EE, 1 Dispel, 2 Clique, 1 Timely, and 1 Runed Halo.
There were a number of people trying Meddling Mage in the SB in... 2016? It seems narrow compared to the black discard spells but it could be worth trying again.
You guys are waaaay underestimating Collective Brutality. After playing with it more, I'd say it may be the best of the 3 cards that are the reason to be Esper over Jeskai (the others being Night of Souls' Betrayal and Thoughtseize).
I'll be at SCG Indi in a couple weekends. Last big tournament I played Breach Moon, so I'm excited to bring Esper to the big leagues again. Last time I did was when Git probe was still in the format and I got turn 3 Infected out of the tournament while holding Blessed Alliance and Condemn in hand.
The easiest question then to ask is: Why play black?
Our big 3 are probably:
Esper Charm
Thoughtseize
Surgical Extraction (painlessly)
Collective Brutality also shows up quite a bit, which makes sense with the cards versatility (especially vs. Burn). Beyond that, I'd argue Night of Souls' Betrayal is somewhat underplayed. And... that's it. This is what we give up Bolt for. This is what we give up the clock and corner-turning ability for.
Is it worth it?
We have to be better against combo decks. That said, this statement is likely less true if one does not run Surgical Extraction. Beyond that, where are we better? Where are we worse? We are likely worse against Humans and Affinity, no matter how many Fatal Push and Wrath of God we shoehorn in. Are we better or worse vs. Tron and Jund? I honestly don't know. Jund is a match up that has likely suffered with the rebirth of Bloodbraid Elf and the lack of Think Twice in our current builds.
Another issue I have run into is that the Jeskai vs. Esper match up, which I once thought incredibly favorable, does not feel favorable anymore (at least preboard). This could admittedly be due to the fact that I can count the number of tournaments I've played in the last year+ on my hands, but I feel as if things have changed. We tend to run less of a critical mass of card advantage spells than we used to (Think Twice is the most notable absence). We also tend to run more creature hate (board wipes) and "dead air" in the control match up, such as Blessed Alliance, while most of Jeskai's "dead" cards can be pointed upstairs. They run more Snapcaster Mage than we do, which is one of the strongest cards in a control mirror. I believe we also used to run more counterspells than they did, but this has also changed, with 8 being the stock Jeskai counterspell number (3 Logic Knot, 4 Cryptic Command, 1 Spell Snare or Negate) and many of my current brews having only 7. Now, with a sideboard chock full of discard spells, Surgicals, and the odd Dispel, postboard games feel dominating. But to lose that game 1 slog is more often than not debilitating.
Questions:
1) How have people been doing against Grixis Death's Shadow?
2) Who has been cutting Think Twice? Who has been running Serum Visions?
3) Have any Cycle cards from the new sets stood out?
4) How many lands have you been running?
5) Have people cut down on Ghost Quarters?
6) Has anyone tried Spell Pierce to combat all the low land count decks?
7) Where are people at on Spell Snare?
I played one small tournament. Got run over by humans. Hatebears is also gaining quite a bit of popularity. Fatal Push is practically worthless against Eldrazi. I feel like if there's a world in which you run the full playset of board wipes, or maybe even 5, we're in it. I'm also crazy on the idea of packing multiple Dispels in the SB to combat DS and CoCo decks. Maybe even Spell Pierce since their land counts are so low.
And Esper [Charm] will beat any other UB(x) any day of the week.