We're pretty far away from any deck that has had any results in a long long time. The banning of Mox Opal left the deck mostly dead in the water.
I like the line of thinking with Zuran Orb and once upon a time this would have been a crux card for the deck. Unfortunately with only Faith's Reward to get back lands it's a difficult ask. The decks have been running Open the vaults as recursion effect 5-7 and the deck would struggle without all 7/8. With the recent printing of an Enchantment Land and another playable Artifact Land there may be something hiding along those lines. (Especially since both are good in the deck on their own.
Thought Monitor is another angle of thought from recent sets but would require a good sac outlet.
I'm having trouble coming up with a cohesive deck or anything that performs at any real speed as a traditional Eggs deck. If there's an answer I suspect it exists as an A+B+C artifact combo deck that looks nothing like what we've seen before.
We're one of the top three decks right now by numbers!!!
I really see Ponza as being well positioned, this will always be a deck that is more meta dependent than most, we are basically a Death and Taxes deck. We have our hatebears and meta specific hate.
One of the biggest shifts I feel had been the increase in ways to take advantage of Bloodbraid, where when she was first unbanned I didn't like the inclusion. It felt forced. The deck has now shifted to fit her as a core piece. The printing of Seasoned Pyromancer, Bonecrusher Giant, Wrenn and Six, and the Modernization of Pillage have brought consistency to our cascades.
Unfortunately with the pandemic I don't have much opportunity to play.
This seems like a very standard top list right now:
I haven't had any problems against Force of Negation. What card are they countering of yours? Moon isn't that critical to that match up and most of the time I'd be happy enough with the 2 for 1.
This deck has been bad in most metas for a while. But I think with recent shifts we'll see people returning here for updated versions.
One important note is that MadcapEmperion is impossible for most Hogaak decks to beat in the main and is also very good at slowing down most Phoenix variations. The decks it is bad against like Tron or Jund we already have a good match-up against.
I am strongly against Bloodbraid at least in current iterations of the deck. Even hitting the best 3 drops 50% of the time and other times hitting a dork. A 1 3/2 haste is very good, but its not a card our deck should be playing let. I think there are variations where it would shine, but the standard list isn't it. I think once the 3 drops start focusing around things like Rabblemaster is where it's inclusion becomes beneficial.
Below are two directions the deck has gone. Once more aggressive, the other going for the harder control into the combo win.
Excited to know the site will be sticking around, I'll look into doing the updating that I had put off. Several new sets and a few directions the deck has gone. Not many results though.
I've been off the deck at my LGS because of meta. The rebirth of Mardu Pyromancer and Jund, and the Tron that preys on them is good things for our deck so i foresee a positive shift for us.
How are we feeling about our # of answers to thalia, damping sphere and the great white enchantments stony silence and rest in peace. im currently running 3 ways to deal with sphere and thalia, and 4 to deal with the enchantments. I haven't been able to test my humans match up, however i am slightly scared of the match up.
Because we win in one turn our answers can be more temporary than most decks that need to try and win through hate. Bounce effects like Echoing Truth, Æther Spellbomb, and the usually unnecessary Wipe Away. I run 4 in my board. They can also buy you time against aggro and creature combo.
An extra Pyrite Spellbomb can help to deal with many but not all of the hate bears.
So in general Visions is considered the better setup card and SoH the better active draw. You are right about it finding a turn 1 Bloom slightly better. This makes them about even turn 1 since you are unlikely to see a Bloom and will instead be setting up lands/not lands as needed. Even if you do see a Bloom off of the scry 2, often will have the opportunity to wait until turn 5 to go off anyway, in game one at least.
But during combo you will be drawing a bunch of cards, so as long as you draw 1 card after casting the cantrip the setup of Visions is better than the choice offered by SoH.
I was running a 3/2 split before I switched over to Looting.
My deck focuses on Grinding Station, and rather than using my Eggs to try and draw into another Open the Vaults effect, I’d use them to mill my own deck to find other artifact to return.
Playing that type of list has several advantages in that you can freely sac your eggs in the early turns, and once you cast your first Open the Vaults with a Grinding Station in play your deck plays out much, much faster than a typical eggs interaction. I've only played with it a few times so figuring out if your turn clock is slower like it feels or if it's actually the same will be interesting.
For our looping spells Faith's Reward and Open the Vaults, I've always liked having 7 of them in my deck. I think going up to 8 is certainly a viable choice too, but I don't know if I would go lower. We need to see enough of these cards to combo off.
I also decided to run Ichor Wellspring over Elsewhere Flask, because of the 2 draws you can get out of the card. That means we'd also need to run more main deck sacrifice outlets, besides Reshape. I opted to go with Phyrexia's Core and Thopter Foundry. Thopter is a permanent, on-colour sacrifice outlet and Phyrexia's Core is a kinda permanent sac outlet (needs to tap). Between those 3 cards I've felt I had enough sacrifice outlets.
For the lands, Phyrexia's Core, Inventor's Fair and Academy Ruins used to be 4 Darksteel Citadels when KCI was still legal. Now the Citadels have lost all (?) of their value, so I'm trying something new. The Inventor's Fair and Academy Ruins could probably be extra islands, though I don't think I've particularly needed them.
Lastly, I use Aetherflux Reservoir as my win-con. I've don't think I've ever really understood why people prefer Pyrite Spellbomb. It can remove a creature and can draw a card, but Aetherflux kills a lot quicker and can very quickly gain a lot of life. Is Pyrite Spellbomb really that good (convince me )?
I was hard on being at 7 recursion spells, changing over to 4xLooting brought me up to 4xVaults. Though that is still in testing.
I don't like having to find room for a sac outlet that doesn't do much, sure, you'll potentially have infinite 1/1s and infinite life but unless you have your Academy Ruins in play already you can't attack with them without drawing out. I think that if you want to go the sac outlet route in order to run Ichor Wellspring or Terrarion, that Grinding Station is better. Now if there was a haste source or a way to not draw out, then it would be a maindeck backup win.
I would definitely recommend running fetches or basics over those non-basics, makes the combo cleaner.
I think in a lot of ways you are playing with very powerful effects but I'm in favor of running as few cards outside the direct combo as possible and you seem to have a lot.
Tezzeret the Seeker is a neat way to think of interaction with Faith's Reward, but because it cost 3UU we can't play it until we are already comboing where as the other tutors can help with setup.
I've accepted that the ramp package, 3-4 drop control, and late bombs are what make this deck Ponza.
Blood Moon is a card we mainboarded because it was good against at least 51% of the meta (and often way more). When I look at the meta right now, I can't bring myself to main it anymore.
I'm really liking what Faithless Looting does for the deck. Though the Opals make me more confident in running them. I switched my lands to make a R instead of W since we will have white if we're going off anyway. Also upped my Open the Vaults from 3 to 4.
I like the line of thinking with Zuran Orb and once upon a time this would have been a crux card for the deck. Unfortunately with only Faith's Reward to get back lands it's a difficult ask. The decks have been running Open the vaults as recursion effect 5-7 and the deck would struggle without all 7/8. With the recent printing of an Enchantment Land and another playable Artifact Land there may be something hiding along those lines. (Especially since both are good in the deck on their own.
Thought Monitor is another angle of thought from recent sets but would require a good sac outlet.
I'm having trouble coming up with a cohesive deck or anything that performs at any real speed as a traditional Eggs deck. If there's an answer I suspect it exists as an A+B+C artifact combo deck that looks nothing like what we've seen before.
(Sideboarding is the only section I have still to do.)
I really see Ponza as being well positioned, this will always be a deck that is more meta dependent than most, we are basically a Death and Taxes deck. We have our hatebears and meta specific hate.
One of the biggest shifts I feel had been the increase in ways to take advantage of Bloodbraid, where when she was first unbanned I didn't like the inclusion. It felt forced. The deck has now shifted to fit her as a core piece. The printing of Seasoned Pyromancer, Bonecrusher Giant, Wrenn and Six, and the Modernization of Pillage have brought consistency to our cascades.
Unfortunately with the pandemic I don't have much opportunity to play.
This seems like a very standard top list right now:
4 Arbor Elf
4 Bloodbraid Elf
2 Bonecrusher Giant
3 Elder Gargaroth
3 Klothys, God of Destiny
3 Magus of the Moon
1 Questing Beast
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Seasoned Pyromancer
INSTANTS and SORCERYS(7)
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Pillage
1 Blood Moon
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Utopia Sprawl
1 Wrenn and Six
LANDS (20)
6 Forest
1 Mountain
4 Stomping Ground
4 Wooded Foothills
5 Other Mixed Green Fetches
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Arasta of the Endless Web
2 Boil
2 Cindervines
2 Collector Ouphe
1 Flame Slash
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Obstinate Baloth
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Weather the Storm
Things i'll discuss:
The differences between versions running just Pillage and versions also running Stone Rain
As new mainstays
Wrenn and Six
Seasoned Pyromancer
As great meta options
Klothys, God of Destiny
Magus of the Moon Current metas want the redundancy and Bloodbraiding into a body is good.
Questing Beast
A resurgence in a splash of White for
Stoneforge Mystic
and sideboard cards like
Rest in Peace
Knight of Autumn
Path to Exile
As well as an overhaul to sideboards in general
Optional inclusions
Once Upon a Time
Snow Lands
This deck has been bad in most metas for a while. But I think with recent shifts we'll see people returning here for updated versions.
One important note is that MadcapEmperion is impossible for most Hogaak decks to beat in the main and is also very good at slowing down most Phoenix variations. The decks it is bad against like Tron or Jund we already have a good match-up against.
I am strongly against Bloodbraid at least in current iterations of the deck. Even hitting the best 3 drops 50% of the time and other times hitting a dork. A 1 3/2 haste is very good, but its not a card our deck should be playing let. I think there are variations where it would shine, but the standard list isn't it. I think once the 3 drops start focusing around things like Rabblemaster is where it's inclusion becomes beneficial.
Below are two directions the deck has gone. Once more aggressive, the other going for the harder control into the combo win.
8 Forest
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Mountain
4 Stomping Ground
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
CREATURES (15)
4 Arbor Elf
2 Birds of Paradise
1 Courser of Kruphix
2 Glorybringer
2 Inferno Titan
4 Tireless Tracker
2 Abrade
4 Blood Moon
1 Chandra, Flamecaller
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Karn, the Great Creator
1 Liquimetal Coating
4 Pillage
1 Trinisphere
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Anger of the Gods
1 Batterskull
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Liquimetal Coating
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Trinisphere
1 Walking Ballista
1 Wurmcoil Engine
8 Forest
3 Mountain
2 Stomping Ground
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
CREATURES (24)
4 Arbor Elf
2 Birds of Paradise
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Hexdrinker
3 Inferno Titan
2 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Thundermaw Hellkite
4 Pillage
4 Stone Rain
3 Blood Moon
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Choke
3 Collector Ouphe
3 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Tormod's Crypt
3 Weather the Storm
I've been off the deck at my LGS because of meta. The rebirth of Mardu Pyromancer and Jund, and the Tron that preys on them is good things for our deck so i foresee a positive shift for us.
4x Chromatic Star
2x Engineered Explosives
4x Grinding Station
4x Ichor Wellspring
4x Mox Opal
3x Myr Retriever
1x Pyrite Spellbomb
4x Terrarion
4x Scrap Trawler
4x Semblance Anvil
2x Welding Jar
2x Sai, Master Thopterist
Lands (18)
2x Buried Ruin
4x Darksteel Citadel
2x Forest
4x Grove of the Burnwillows
2x Inventors' Fair
1x Island
3x Yavimaya Coast
1x Swan Song
2x Negate
1x Sai, Master Thopterist
3x Karn, Scion of Urza
3x Nature's Claim
2x Ghirapur Aether Grid
3x Galvanic Blast
Because we win in one turn our answers can be more temporary than most decks that need to try and win through hate. Bounce effects like Echoing Truth, Æther Spellbomb, and the usually unnecessary Wipe Away. I run 4 in my board. They can also buy you time against aggro and creature combo.
An extra Pyrite Spellbomb can help to deal with many but not all of the hate bears.
Extirpate is very hard to deal with. Fortunately most people are running Surgical Extraction, which if you suspect they have in hand lave a Conjurer's Bauble up.
But during combo you will be drawing a bunch of cards, so as long as you draw 1 card after casting the cantrip the setup of Visions is better than the choice offered by SoH.
I was running a 3/2 split before I switched over to Looting.
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Faithless Looting
1 Thoughtcast
1 Chart a Course
1 Board the Weatherlight
1 Ancient Stirrings
1 Grinding Station
1 Claws of Gix
1 Metalwork Colossus
1 Thopter Foundry
1 Sword of the Meek
1 Time Sieve
1 Myr Retriever
4 Basics
4 Shocks
1 Spire of Industry
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Phyrexia's Core
1 Academy Ruins
1 Aetherflux Reservoir
1 Sai, Master Thopterist
1 Altar of the Brood
I cannot factor in every build mentioned, but I will for any ideas with multiple people supporting it.
[C]Island[/C] becomes Island.
[Deck=Example] Lands (4) 4 Island[/Deck] becomes
4 Island
Playing that type of list has several advantages in that you can freely sac your eggs in the early turns, and once you cast your first Open the Vaults with a Grinding Station in play your deck plays out much, much faster than a typical eggs interaction. I've only played with it a few times so figuring out if your turn clock is slower like it feels or if it's actually the same will be interesting.
Here is my take on this version.
If only Careful Study were modern legal. I'm not high on Chart a COurse but let us know how it goes.
I was hard on being at 7 recursion spells, changing over to 4xLooting brought me up to 4xVaults. Though that is still in testing.
I don't like having to find room for a sac outlet that doesn't do much, sure, you'll potentially have infinite 1/1s and infinite life but unless you have your Academy Ruins in play already you can't attack with them without drawing out. I think that if you want to go the sac outlet route in order to run Ichor Wellspring or Terrarion, that Grinding Station is better. Now if there was a haste source or a way to not draw out, then it would be a maindeck backup win.
I would definitely recommend running fetches or basics over those non-basics, makes the combo cleaner.
I think in a lot of ways you are playing with very powerful effects but I'm in favor of running as few cards outside the direct combo as possible and you seem to have a lot.
Tezzeret the Seeker is a neat way to think of interaction with Faith's Reward, but because it cost 3UU we can't play it until we are already comboing where as the other tutors can help with setup.
Blood Moon is a card we mainboarded because it was good against at least 51% of the meta (and often way more). When I look at the meta right now, I can't bring myself to main it anymore.
4x Chromatic Sphere
4x Chromatic Star
4x Conjurer's Bauble
4x Elsewhere Flask
4x Lotus Bloom
4x Mox Opal
1x Pyrite Spellbomb
4x Faith's Reward
4x Faithless Looting
4x Open the Vaults
3x Reshape
3x Whir of Invention
4x Ghost Quarter
8x Island
1x Mountain
4x Scalding Tarn
P.S. FireWolf try [c]Reshape[/c] instead of [[Reshape]] slight differences between Salvation and Tappedout
How how your builds without Mox Opal been running?
I'll update it with more than baseline options tomorrow.