A. You need to run no fewer than 25-26 lands in a deck of this caliber. You are not the beatdown, you are the control deck and maximizing the number of lands that fix your mana, provide additional bodies and minimizing those that come into play tapped help ensure a steady stream of spells to disrupt and eventually kill your opponent.
B. The Liliana + Punishing Fire interaction is simply to strong to ignore, let alone the opportunity for you to Cascade into her for free.
C. Having access to 8 maindeck discard spells helps ensure your success at disrupting your opponent as quickly as efficiently as possible, further increasing your win percentage against both control and combo strategies.
D. 1 maindeck Maelstrom Pulse is your go-to "oh ****, I need a Vindicate/sweeper" option. Don't leave home without it and the second copy safe in the 'board.
E. Access to essential hate cards like Deathmark, Ancient Grudge and Leyline of the Void allow you to gain the trump in matchups against Zoo, Affinity, combo and decks that thrive upon graveyard interactions like Living End, Snapcaster Mage decks, Reanimator strategies, decks seeking value from flashback cards like Mystical Teachings and opposing Punishing Fire decks.
F. Having access to a powerful trump like Grave Titan in aggro matchups where you naturally board out your Bobs provides a solid endgame plan to play towards.
3 Mental Misstep
3 Flashfreeze
2 Naturalize
1 Dissipate
3 Sword of Feast and Famine
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Ghost Quarter
The maindeck changes reflect the nod Delver of Secrets gets over Mayor of Avabruck. Not only is it more friendly to the Snapcaster Mages but also helps provide a greater and faster clock against both control and ramp strategies, even more so when considering the addition of Thruns and Swords from the sideboard for games 2/3.
Skinshifter and Spellskite are dedicated to helping you survive otherwise tough aggressive matchups like RDW, Tempered Steel and UW-Blade variants. Combined with Dismember, Beast Within and Garruk Relentless, you have access to an incredible amount of removal for a UG deck to be able to harness and therefore out-tempo your opponent.
While playing reactive cards like Unsummon, Vapor Snag, Silent Departure and Dispere can be effective, Fish strategies benefit more from sticking early threats and backing them up with cheap countermagic (Mana Leak, Negate, Dissipate). Being able to commit to the board while having little to no fear of sweepers is this deck's specialty.
In regards to not running Think Twice or Forbidden Alchemy, the deck has little to no graveyard synergy and in its current incarnation only considers Think Twice for card advantage. I chose to eschew Think Twice for Ponders and Gitaxian Probes, in order to provide what I consider to be stronger and faster card advantage options.
A. See above reasons for why you are having difficulty casting your double color spells with a shaky 3 color, 20 land manabase.
B. I can accept Mental Misstep's inclusion as a strictly meta call but honestly, inclusion of cards like Unsummon, Negate, Ponder and 3x Mana Leak instead of the nearly obligatory 4 seem like loose choices. By cutting the chaff and running stronger tempo cards like Gitaxian Probe, Beast Within and the additional Leak, you will likely be much better off. Probe provides perfect information, Beast Within gives your deck much needed permanent hate and the last Leak is a no-brainer.
C. My point makes perfect sense and the suggestion is clear - cut the "do nothing" cards. Besides, you're in blue anyway. If you're THAT hungry for that kind of effect, just play Divination. I don't support this but if you're going to be that stubborn, that's my recommendation.
D. The inclusion of any Manabarbs type of effect in a aggro-control deck like this is absolute lunacy. It does far more harm against you than benefit by punishing your opponent. Your role in an aggro-control deck is to play out aggresive, must-answer creatures and back them up with land denial and countermagic. Just look at Legacy Fish for a baseline.
E. If you are having trouble dealing with aggro, "must answer" 1 drop creatures and the like, play more Spellskite or consider Skinshifter. Both cards are absolute houses against Steel, RDW and even Wolf Run. Don't forget 'Skite can steal Wolf Run activations, or anything else that says "target" for that matter.
I can understand that nobody enjoys having their baby called ugly but that's what these forums are for - to tell you why your kid sucks, no matter how much you love them. If you disagree, that's fine. It's not my Constructed record at risk with your sub-par deck choices.
A. You are only running 20 lands, with 3 colors and complaining that you can't reliably cast your double spells. This isn't Legacy, you can't get away with running 20 lands outside of the leanest, meanest aggro decks in Standard. My thoughts? Play more 4-5 lands, especially basics and play less colors.
B. Misstep is strictly a sideboard card for RDW/WW/Tempered Steel.
C. Tezzeret's Gambit has no place in this deck when you are already running 8 other cantrips, particularly when it has no synergy in the deck. And don't even say Ratchet Bomb.
D. Sideboard needs more answer cards, less Manabarbs. They will kill you faster than your opponent.
E. I see no reason outside of Lavamancer, who is considerably worse now that there are no fetchlands in Standard, to play any red in this deck.
1 Ghost Quarter
3 Mental Misstep
3 Flashfreeze
1 Spellskite
1 Beast Within
1 Dissapate
2 Naturalize
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Batterskull
(15 cards)
Updates:
A. -1 Island, -1 Dismember, -1 Snapcaster and -1 Metamorph for +3 Garruk Relentless and +1 Skinshifter. The selection of 3 Garruk Relentless in the maindeck gives UG some deseperately needed removal, an endless stream of Wolves, greater survivability vs. board wipes and is extremely easy on the manabase.
B. Decided in favor of 2 Naturalize over 2 Sylvok Replica because of the inherent synergy between Naturalize and Snapcaster Mage vs. Sylvok Replica's benefit of a larger body.
C. Cut down to 24 lands because the curve ends at 4, (5 PB for Batterskull) and provided an additional spell slot for the deck. Having 24 lands + 4 cantrips in the form of Gitaxian Probe seems fine.
@transatlantic: Considered the possibility of splashing black but have been skeptical thus-far of the strain it places on the manabase for additional card selection and removal, which the addition of Garruk Relentless and the inclusion of Gitaxian Probe already provides.
Here's a UG Fish-esque deck that I've been working on for a bit. It seems almost counter-intuitive at first glance, considering the conflicting elements of Mayor v. Snapcaster but trust me, not running both of this cards in any attempt at a tempo deck in this format is a huge mistake. Without further ado:
4 Mayor of Avabruck
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Phantasmal Image
3 Skinshifter
2 Spellskite
2 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
(20 creatures)
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Mana Leak
2 Dismember
2 Beast Within
3 Dissapate
1 Negate
(16 spells)
The maindeck has 7 serious 2-drop threats that multiple decks have problems answering, let alone any combination of the two of them. Furthermore, Phantasmal Image, Phyrexian Metamorph and Snapcaster Mage rebuying counters/removal gives you a lot of game against Solar Flare's reanimation targets, Wolf Run's baddies and other general threats like Mirran Crusader/Hero of Bladehold/Geist of Saint Traft.
Furthermore, 8 maindeck counterspells + 4 removal spells do a solid job of allowing you to ride your 2-drop of choice to victory. Gitaxian Probe provides card advantage, perfect information and transforms Snapcaster Mage into Silvergill Adept in a pinch.
Like any successful Fish deck, having cheap efficient creatures with effective removal/counters for backup allows you to thrive in hostile metas. In the current SOM-M12-INN meta, here are my concessions:
Misstep/Spellskites/Skinshifters/Batterskull are concessions to aggro.
Beast Within/Ghost Quarter are concessions to Wolf Run Ramp.
Flashfreeze is a concession to RDW/Wolf Run Ramp.
Sylvok Replica is a concession to Steel/UW-Blade/Tezzeret.
Considerations that didn't quite make the final cut:
Dungrove Elder
Wurmcoil Engine (SB)
Swords of X and Y
Bramblecrush
Shimmering Grotto
Lost In The Mist
Frost Titan
Birthing Pod
Birds of Paradise/Llanowar Elves
AEther Vial (jk)
Let me know your thoughts - I have yet to get any testing in with this but I will shortly, after I collect the final pieces I am missing for it.
I think that there are simply too many cute ideas out there with Parallel Lives + token generators clunking up this threat, so I've decided to post a decklist that I've been running in preparation for States that I've experienced success with that is a bit more in line with the OP.
Without further ado (and please don't complain about lack of card tags, you should know what these cards do by now):
GW Aggro/Control
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Avacyn's Pilgrim
1 Llanowar Elves
2 Spellskite
2 Fiend Hunter
3 Solemn Simulacrum
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Tree of Redemption
2 Acidic Slime
2 Sun Titan
(22 creatures)
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Dismember
1 Sword of Feast & Famine
2 Sword of War & Peace
1 Angelic Destiny
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Gideon Jura
(13 spells)
Aggro: This matchup becomes incredibly attrition based, particularly if you are playing against RDW. They have enough cheap, efficient burn between Shock/Gut Shot/Geistflame/Brimstone Volley to keep your early mana accelerants in check that the game becomes a grind with Spellskites, GSZ for Tree of Redemption, Fiend Hunters and removal spells until you stabilize long enough to GSZ for Thrun or naturally draw Gideon or Sun Titan. Post-board, things become much easier as you are able to assume the control role by boarding in Days, Corrupter to GSZ on 3 to hit Shrine and Timely Reinforcements/Spellskite. Just keep a Dismember up for their Hero of Oxid Ridge and you'll be able to calmly Day them out of the game.
In regards to Tempered Steel, you are going to need to stick as many Slimes as humanly possible. Don't be afraid to GSZ early and often to take out the enchantment while saving removal spells for fliers; Ghost Quarter does double duty here, becoming a removal spell for Inkmoth Nexus. Fiend Hunter can also be very efficient at disrupting their tempo - just try to save it for Hero of Bladehold.
Midrange: There are going to be dozens of "durdle" decks for States which are very "cool" decks that simply don't do anything. Examples: standard "Dredge," Past in Flames combo decks, Token theme decks. Your game plan against these kinds of decks? Ramp into a difficult to deal with threat (Thrun, Gideon, Sun Titan) or slap a Sword/Destiny onto a Birds of Paradise and show 'em how it's done.
Control: You are the aggressor in this matchup. The Esper Reanimator (which is not Solar Flare, no matter how many times people say it is) lists have a much stronger end game than you and if they are able to set up a Sun Titan or Elesh Norn before you are hitting them with dudes + Equipment, you have lost. Early Lilianas can be tough to beat but fortunately, their mana is terrible and no one is smart enough to play Sphere of the Suns for fixing. Hence, GSZ for Slime or Ghost Quartering their duals (try keep them off double white!) early can be extremely disruptive. NOTE: DO NOT BE AFRAID OF MANA LEAK. The "fear" any GW player suffers from against counterspells is the control player's greatest advantage but the easiest way to combat this is to go for, 100% of the time. They only have so many counters (4-6 maindeck) that a majority of the time, you will resolve your spell and proceed to develop your board faster than them. Post-board, bring in Surgical Extractions to hit their 'yard, Spellskites if they are heavy on 1-for-1 removal and Day of Judgment as an insurance policy if you are behind on board. Stingerfling Spider is also an insane GSZ target against Consecrated Sphinx - sure, they get 2 cards from it but you guarantee it's death.
Combo: I feel that the only real "combo" deck in Standard currently is Birthing Pod and even Pod feels more like a mid-rangey incremental advantage sort of deck locked into the combo shell of "do I have an X-drop to Pod into y-drop". G1 revolves around GSZ for early Slimes, Fiend Hunter their 1-2-or-3 drops to stop the Pod chain or O-Ring the Pod. Furthermore, they are completely cold to the Leonin Arbiter + Ghost Quarter soft lock post-board.
I hope this was helpful - please give me your feedback! Personally, I am torn between this list and going more control or more aggro - I feel like being midrange, despite all the benefits I list above, might just not be good enough or fast enough for this meta.
@Slipknot: Thanks man, I appreciate you taking the time to include a list in the original post so that people can get an initial idea right off the bat with what we're currently working list. This is by no means saying that my current list is the most optimal (I know it certainly isn't considering that we have to wait until post PT-Philly to see how the metagame shapes up) but still, it's nice to see proper credit given when necessary.
@Ubermegapwnzod: There are a few things about your list that I feel I needed to address, since there are some interesting concepts you touch on but there are immediate problems I see after giving it a twice-over.
1. Bant v. UW: By adding a third color, you are diluting your manabase that much further to accommodate what seems to just be another "cute" element to the deck in Rite of Flourishing + Emrakul approach. While Rite does essentially further your game plan of milling them out, and is a good method of doing so, I just don't feel like the Bant list you posted has enough disruption to prevent aggressive decks from just straight up killing you early game.
2. 4x Cryptic Command: The card is awesome but just 3 for your only counterspells? I don't feel that having 4-of a triple blue card as your only form of permission will do anything against the Wild Nacatls, Tarmogoyfs and Bloodbraid Elves of new Modern once you run out of Fog effects. Currently, it seems you just need Path to Exile and Mana Leak/Rune Snag in order to not die before turn 4 in this format.
3. Card Ratios: Ponder with no shuffle effects? 4 Oblivion Ring post-board? No Jace Belerens? Hindering Light - really? 4x of the UG/WG shock lands and 4x Mystic Gate with no Hallowed Fountains or fetchlands to find them? I mean, it honestly just seems that a lot of your ratios were just 4x (blanks) instead of carefully considered numbers. I would take a second look at a lot of these and considering just exactly what role each of these cards are playing. Also, 21 lands in a control deck? C'mon man! Mono-red barely gets away with 21 lands!
Now, there are a number of things I like that you touched on here that bear equal mentioning:
1. Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir: Post-board, I like having access to Teferi but not in this list since he is, again, another triple blue card in your Bant deck. Granted, you have Utopia Sprawls to help but I feel like those cards are much better suited in a ramp or enchantress style deck.
2. Horizon Canopy: Another card to potentially abuse with Crucible of Worlds and a way of splashing green for cards like Gaddock Teeg post board.
Thanks for posting and let me know what you think. These aren't attempts to be harsh or cruel - just positions that I currently feel are correct.
I have noticed a dramatic lack of decklists on this particular thread and as a current Modern player developing Turbofog, I felt that it was only right for me to post my list for you all to look at in order to have a baseline from which to work from - especially since all I've seen thus far are simply judgment calls and deliberations.
Here's what I'm currently working with:
4 Holy Day
3 Path to Exile
4 Mana Leak
3 Cryptic Command
(14 instants)
4 Howling Mine
1 Crucible of Worlds
3 Font of Mythos
(8 artifacts)
3 Trinket Mage
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Elixir of Immortality
2 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Medding Mage
1 Venser, the Sojourner
1 Stonehorn Dignitary
2 Spell Pierce
2 Repeal
This current incarnation that I'm working with feels a bit like I'm stuck between Legacy Landstill elements (Crucible + Ghost Quarter + Sun Titan package) and the UW Turbofog lists from old Extended, which maxed out on life-gain and white Fogs while being supplemented with a faster mill clock in Archive Trap and the transformation into Baneslayer Angels post-board.
I'm not entirely sure which direction is the most appropriate but given the current inability of old Extended Turbofog lists to deal with something like 12-Post (either the UW or Mono-Green variety) simply discarding their Emrakuls and Ulamogs or running too few counterspells to beat Dragonstorm, I'm a bit more inclined towards the more attrition-focused Landstill approach.
In regards to the current sideboard, it's a mess but there are some elements which bear mentioning:
A) Trinket Mage + Relic of Progenitus: Provides the deck with a way to interact with a successfully milled/discarded legendary Eldrazi (or Progenitus, which is far less of an issue). Just pop the Relic in response to Emrakul hitting the bin and *poof* away he goes. The correct number here really depends on the number of legendary Eldrazi 12-Post lists are running; I've seen as few as 1 and as many as 6.
B) Leyline of Sanctity: Pretty self-explanatory and widely applicable - bring 'em in against any sort of deck with hand disruption or designed to win with direct damage (i.e. Hulk Combo, Storm, Pyromancer, Burn, ect.). I like 2 right now but depending on the popularity of Dragonstorm, the number may increase.
C) Meddling Mage: An extremely versatile answer, provided it survives. Stick one against Dragonstorm and that's essentially game since you can just Ghost Quarter them to death since they don't run enough basics to ever cast a Hellkite. Not sure if there should be 2 or not but hey, this is why we discuss.
D) Venser, the Sojourner + Stonehorn Dignitary: Easily the "cutest" thing that I'm attempting and not entirely sure if it's even worth the two slots but boy is it fun to soft-lock an aggro deck out of the game. The 4 toughness on the Dignitary is a big deal, since a deck like Zoo will have to waste at least 2 burn spells on it since they will ideally have boarded out their Path to Exiles after seeing no creatures except perhaps the lone Sun Titan preboard.
Let me know what you guys think, I'm interested to hear what you all have to say.
Here's my most recent Jund list that I've experienced some success with in light of a post-Worlds metagame.
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Kitchen Finks
1 Eternal Witness
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
3 Punishing Fire
2 Liliana of the veil
3 Blightning
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Marsh Flats
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
1 Overgrown Tomb
3 Treetop Village
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Twilight Mire
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
1 Forest
2 Deathmark
1 Duress
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Terminate
1 Punishing Fire
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Grave Titan
A couple quick comments about my choices:
A. You need to run no fewer than 25-26 lands in a deck of this caliber. You are not the beatdown, you are the control deck and maximizing the number of lands that fix your mana, provide additional bodies and minimizing those that come into play tapped help ensure a steady stream of spells to disrupt and eventually kill your opponent.
B. The Liliana + Punishing Fire interaction is simply to strong to ignore, let alone the opportunity for you to Cascade into her for free.
C. Having access to 8 maindeck discard spells helps ensure your success at disrupting your opponent as quickly as efficiently as possible, further increasing your win percentage against both control and combo strategies.
D. 1 maindeck Maelstrom Pulse is your go-to "oh ****, I need a Vindicate/sweeper" option. Don't leave home without it and the second copy safe in the 'board.
E. Access to essential hate cards like Deathmark, Ancient Grudge and Leyline of the Void allow you to gain the trump in matchups against Zoo, Affinity, combo and decks that thrive upon graveyard interactions like Living End, Snapcaster Mage decks, Reanimator strategies, decks seeking value from flashback cards like Mystical Teachings and opposing Punishing Fire decks.
F. Having access to a powerful trump like Grave Titan in aggro matchups where you naturally board out your Bobs provides a solid endgame plan to play towards.
Let me know what you all think.
Thanks,
Gaints
Please use deck tags.
Helix
Here is my updated and revised UG Fish list.
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Phantasmal Image
2 Spellskite
4 Skinshifter
3 Snapcaster Mage
(15 creatures)
2 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Mana Leak
1 Negate
2 Dismember
3 Dissipate
3 Beast Within
2 Garruk Relentless
(21 spells)
4 Hinterland Harbor
2 Ghost Quarter
10 Forest
8 Island
(24 land)
SB
3 Mental Misstep
3 Flashfreeze
2 Naturalize
1 Dissipate
3 Sword of Feast and Famine
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Ghost Quarter
The maindeck changes reflect the nod Delver of Secrets gets over Mayor of Avabruck. Not only is it more friendly to the Snapcaster Mages but also helps provide a greater and faster clock against both control and ramp strategies, even more so when considering the addition of Thruns and Swords from the sideboard for games 2/3.
Skinshifter and Spellskite are dedicated to helping you survive otherwise tough aggressive matchups like RDW, Tempered Steel and UW-Blade variants. Combined with Dismember, Beast Within and Garruk Relentless, you have access to an incredible amount of removal for a UG deck to be able to harness and therefore out-tempo your opponent.
While playing reactive cards like Unsummon, Vapor Snag, Silent Departure and Dispere can be effective, Fish strategies benefit more from sticking early threats and backing them up with cheap countermagic (Mana Leak, Negate, Dissipate). Being able to commit to the board while having little to no fear of sweepers is this deck's specialty.
In regards to not running Think Twice or Forbidden Alchemy, the deck has little to no graveyard synergy and in its current incarnation only considers Think Twice for card advantage. I chose to eschew Think Twice for Ponders and Gitaxian Probes, in order to provide what I consider to be stronger and faster card advantage options.
Thoughts?
A. See above reasons for why you are having difficulty casting your double color spells with a shaky 3 color, 20 land manabase.
B. I can accept Mental Misstep's inclusion as a strictly meta call but honestly, inclusion of cards like Unsummon, Negate, Ponder and 3x Mana Leak instead of the nearly obligatory 4 seem like loose choices. By cutting the chaff and running stronger tempo cards like Gitaxian Probe, Beast Within and the additional Leak, you will likely be much better off. Probe provides perfect information, Beast Within gives your deck much needed permanent hate and the last Leak is a no-brainer.
C. My point makes perfect sense and the suggestion is clear - cut the "do nothing" cards. Besides, you're in blue anyway. If you're THAT hungry for that kind of effect, just play Divination. I don't support this but if you're going to be that stubborn, that's my recommendation.
D. The inclusion of any Manabarbs type of effect in a aggro-control deck like this is absolute lunacy. It does far more harm against you than benefit by punishing your opponent. Your role in an aggro-control deck is to play out aggresive, must-answer creatures and back them up with land denial and countermagic. Just look at Legacy Fish for a baseline.
E. If you are having trouble dealing with aggro, "must answer" 1 drop creatures and the like, play more Spellskite or consider Skinshifter. Both cards are absolute houses against Steel, RDW and even Wolf Run. Don't forget 'Skite can steal Wolf Run activations, or anything else that says "target" for that matter.
I can understand that nobody enjoys having their baby called ugly but that's what these forums are for - to tell you why your kid sucks, no matter how much you love them. If you disagree, that's fine. It's not my Constructed record at risk with your sub-par deck choices.
Thanks,
Gaintysaurus
A. You are only running 20 lands, with 3 colors and complaining that you can't reliably cast your double spells. This isn't Legacy, you can't get away with running 20 lands outside of the leanest, meanest aggro decks in Standard. My thoughts? Play more 4-5 lands, especially basics and play less colors.
B. Misstep is strictly a sideboard card for RDW/WW/Tempered Steel.
C. Tezzeret's Gambit has no place in this deck when you are already running 8 other cantrips, particularly when it has no synergy in the deck. And don't even say Ratchet Bomb.
D. Sideboard needs more answer cards, less Manabarbs. They will kill you faster than your opponent.
E. I see no reason outside of Lavamancer, who is considerably worse now that there are no fetchlands in Standard, to play any red in this deck.
4 Mayor of Avabruck
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Phantasmal Image
4 Skinshifter
2 Spellskite
2 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
(17 creatures)
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Mana Leak
1 Dismember
2 Beast Within
3 Dissapate
1 Negate
3 Garruk Relentless
(19 spells)
4 Hinterland Harbor
9 Forest
8 Island
3 Ghost Quarter
(24 lands)
SB
1 Ghost Quarter
3 Mental Misstep
3 Flashfreeze
1 Spellskite
1 Beast Within
1 Dissapate
2 Naturalize
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Batterskull
(15 cards)
Updates:
A. -1 Island, -1 Dismember, -1 Snapcaster and -1 Metamorph for +3 Garruk Relentless and +1 Skinshifter. The selection of 3 Garruk Relentless in the maindeck gives UG some deseperately needed removal, an endless stream of Wolves, greater survivability vs. board wipes and is extremely easy on the manabase.
B. Decided in favor of 2 Naturalize over 2 Sylvok Replica because of the inherent synergy between Naturalize and Snapcaster Mage vs. Sylvok Replica's benefit of a larger body.
C. Cut down to 24 lands because the curve ends at 4, (5 PB for Batterskull) and provided an additional spell slot for the deck. Having 24 lands + 4 cantrips in the form of Gitaxian Probe seems fine.
@transatlantic: Considered the possibility of splashing black but have been skeptical thus-far of the strain it places on the manabase for additional card selection and removal, which the addition of Garruk Relentless and the inclusion of Gitaxian Probe already provides.
Thanks,
Gaintysaurus
Thoughts?
Here's a UG Fish-esque deck that I've been working on for a bit. It seems almost counter-intuitive at first glance, considering the conflicting elements of Mayor v. Snapcaster but trust me, not running both of this cards in any attempt at a tempo deck in this format is a huge mistake. Without further ado:
4 Mayor of Avabruck
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Phantasmal Image
3 Skinshifter
2 Spellskite
2 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
(20 creatures)
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Mana Leak
2 Dismember
2 Beast Within
3 Dissapate
1 Negate
(16 spells)
4 Hinterland Harbor
9 Forest
9 Island
3 Ghost Quarter
(25 lands)
SB
1 Ghost Quarter
3 Mental Misstep
3 Flashfreeze
1 Spellskite
1 Beast Within
1 Dissapate
2 Sylvok Replica/Naturalize (unsure)
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Batterskull
(15 cards)
The maindeck has 7 serious 2-drop threats that multiple decks have problems answering, let alone any combination of the two of them. Furthermore, Phantasmal Image, Phyrexian Metamorph and Snapcaster Mage rebuying counters/removal gives you a lot of game against Solar Flare's reanimation targets, Wolf Run's baddies and other general threats like Mirran Crusader/Hero of Bladehold/Geist of Saint Traft.
Furthermore, 8 maindeck counterspells + 4 removal spells do a solid job of allowing you to ride your 2-drop of choice to victory. Gitaxian Probe provides card advantage, perfect information and transforms Snapcaster Mage into Silvergill Adept in a pinch.
Like any successful Fish deck, having cheap efficient creatures with effective removal/counters for backup allows you to thrive in hostile metas. In the current SOM-M12-INN meta, here are my concessions:
Misstep/Spellskites/Skinshifters/Batterskull are concessions to aggro.
Beast Within/Ghost Quarter are concessions to Wolf Run Ramp.
Flashfreeze is a concession to RDW/Wolf Run Ramp.
Sylvok Replica is a concession to Steel/UW-Blade/Tezzeret.
Considerations that didn't quite make the final cut:
Dungrove Elder
Wurmcoil Engine (SB)
Swords of X and Y
Bramblecrush
Shimmering Grotto
Lost In The Mist
Frost Titan
Birthing Pod
Birds of Paradise/Llanowar Elves
AEther Vial (jk)
Let me know your thoughts - I have yet to get any testing in with this but I will shortly, after I collect the final pieces I am missing for it.
Thanks,
Gaintysaurus
Without further ado (and please don't complain about lack of card tags, you should know what these cards do by now):
GW Aggro/Control
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Avacyn's Pilgrim
1 Llanowar Elves
2 Spellskite
2 Fiend Hunter
3 Solemn Simulacrum
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Tree of Redemption
2 Acidic Slime
2 Sun Titan
(22 creatures)
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Dismember
1 Sword of Feast & Famine
2 Sword of War & Peace
1 Angelic Destiny
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Gideon Jura
(13 spells)
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Sunpetal Grove
1 Gavony Township
2 Ghost Quarter
11 Forest
3 Plains
(25 lands)
SB
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Creeping Corrosion
2 Day of Judgment
2 Leonin Arbiter
1 Stingerfling Spider
1 Viridian Corrupter
3 Timely Reinforcements
2 Spellskite
(15 cards)
The Game Plan
Aggro: This matchup becomes incredibly attrition based, particularly if you are playing against RDW. They have enough cheap, efficient burn between Shock/Gut Shot/Geistflame/Brimstone Volley to keep your early mana accelerants in check that the game becomes a grind with Spellskites, GSZ for Tree of Redemption, Fiend Hunters and removal spells until you stabilize long enough to GSZ for Thrun or naturally draw Gideon or Sun Titan. Post-board, things become much easier as you are able to assume the control role by boarding in Days, Corrupter to GSZ on 3 to hit Shrine and Timely Reinforcements/Spellskite. Just keep a Dismember up for their Hero of Oxid Ridge and you'll be able to calmly Day them out of the game.
In regards to Tempered Steel, you are going to need to stick as many Slimes as humanly possible. Don't be afraid to GSZ early and often to take out the enchantment while saving removal spells for fliers; Ghost Quarter does double duty here, becoming a removal spell for Inkmoth Nexus. Fiend Hunter can also be very efficient at disrupting their tempo - just try to save it for Hero of Bladehold.
Midrange: There are going to be dozens of "durdle" decks for States which are very "cool" decks that simply don't do anything. Examples: standard "Dredge," Past in Flames combo decks, Token theme decks. Your game plan against these kinds of decks? Ramp into a difficult to deal with threat (Thrun, Gideon, Sun Titan) or slap a Sword/Destiny onto a Birds of Paradise and show 'em how it's done.
Control: You are the aggressor in this matchup. The Esper Reanimator (which is not Solar Flare, no matter how many times people say it is) lists have a much stronger end game than you and if they are able to set up a Sun Titan or Elesh Norn before you are hitting them with dudes + Equipment, you have lost. Early Lilianas can be tough to beat but fortunately, their mana is terrible and no one is smart enough to play Sphere of the Suns for fixing. Hence, GSZ for Slime or Ghost Quartering their duals (try keep them off double white!) early can be extremely disruptive. NOTE: DO NOT BE AFRAID OF MANA LEAK. The "fear" any GW player suffers from against counterspells is the control player's greatest advantage but the easiest way to combat this is to go for, 100% of the time. They only have so many counters (4-6 maindeck) that a majority of the time, you will resolve your spell and proceed to develop your board faster than them. Post-board, bring in Surgical Extractions to hit their 'yard, Spellskites if they are heavy on 1-for-1 removal and Day of Judgment as an insurance policy if you are behind on board. Stingerfling Spider is also an insane GSZ target against Consecrated Sphinx - sure, they get 2 cards from it but you guarantee it's death.
Combo: I feel that the only real "combo" deck in Standard currently is Birthing Pod and even Pod feels more like a mid-rangey incremental advantage sort of deck locked into the combo shell of "do I have an X-drop to Pod into y-drop". G1 revolves around GSZ for early Slimes, Fiend Hunter their 1-2-or-3 drops to stop the Pod chain or O-Ring the Pod. Furthermore, they are completely cold to the Leonin Arbiter + Ghost Quarter soft lock post-board.
I hope this was helpful - please give me your feedback! Personally, I am torn between this list and going more control or more aggro - I feel like being midrange, despite all the benefits I list above, might just not be good enough or fast enough for this meta.
Thanks,
Gaintysaurus
@Ubermegapwnzod: There are a few things about your list that I feel I needed to address, since there are some interesting concepts you touch on but there are immediate problems I see after giving it a twice-over.
1. Bant v. UW: By adding a third color, you are diluting your manabase that much further to accommodate what seems to just be another "cute" element to the deck in Rite of Flourishing + Emrakul approach. While Rite does essentially further your game plan of milling them out, and is a good method of doing so, I just don't feel like the Bant list you posted has enough disruption to prevent aggressive decks from just straight up killing you early game.
2. 4x Cryptic Command: The card is awesome but just 3 for your only counterspells? I don't feel that having 4-of a triple blue card as your only form of permission will do anything against the Wild Nacatls, Tarmogoyfs and Bloodbraid Elves of new Modern once you run out of Fog effects. Currently, it seems you just need Path to Exile and Mana Leak/Rune Snag in order to not die before turn 4 in this format.
3. Card Ratios: Ponder with no shuffle effects? 4 Oblivion Ring post-board? No Jace Belerens? Hindering Light - really? 4x of the UG/WG shock lands and 4x Mystic Gate with no Hallowed Fountains or fetchlands to find them? I mean, it honestly just seems that a lot of your ratios were just 4x (blanks) instead of carefully considered numbers. I would take a second look at a lot of these and considering just exactly what role each of these cards are playing. Also, 21 lands in a control deck? C'mon man! Mono-red barely gets away with 21 lands!
Now, there are a number of things I like that you touched on here that bear equal mentioning:
1. Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir: Post-board, I like having access to Teferi but not in this list since he is, again, another triple blue card in your Bant deck. Granted, you have Utopia Sprawls to help but I feel like those cards are much better suited in a ramp or enchantress style deck.
2. Horizon Canopy: Another card to potentially abuse with Crucible of Worlds and a way of splashing green for cards like Gaddock Teeg post board.
Thanks for posting and let me know what you think. These aren't attempts to be harsh or cruel - just positions that I currently feel are correct.
Thanks,
Gaints
I have noticed a dramatic lack of decklists on this particular thread and as a current Modern player developing Turbofog, I felt that it was only right for me to post my list for you all to look at in order to have a baseline from which to work from - especially since all I've seen thus far are simply judgment calls and deliberations.
Here's what I'm currently working with:
4 Holy Day
3 Path to Exile
4 Mana Leak
3 Cryptic Command
(14 instants)
4 Howling Mine
1 Crucible of Worlds
3 Font of Mythos
(8 artifacts)
2 Oblivion Ring
(2 enchantments)
4 Jace Beleren
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
(5 planeswalkers)
4 Wrath of God
(4 sorceries)
SPELLS: 33
1 Sun Titan
(1 creature)
CREATURES: 1
1 Celestial Colonnade
1 Academy Ruins
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Mystic Gate
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Seachrome Coast
3 Reliquary Tower
4 Island
3 Plains
LANDS: 26
SIDEBOARD
3 Trinket Mage
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Elixir of Immortality
2 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Medding Mage
1 Venser, the Sojourner
1 Stonehorn Dignitary
2 Spell Pierce
2 Repeal
This current incarnation that I'm working with feels a bit like I'm stuck between Legacy Landstill elements (Crucible + Ghost Quarter + Sun Titan package) and the UW Turbofog lists from old Extended, which maxed out on life-gain and white Fogs while being supplemented with a faster mill clock in Archive Trap and the transformation into Baneslayer Angels post-board.
I'm not entirely sure which direction is the most appropriate but given the current inability of old Extended Turbofog lists to deal with something like 12-Post (either the UW or Mono-Green variety) simply discarding their Emrakuls and Ulamogs or running too few counterspells to beat Dragonstorm, I'm a bit more inclined towards the more attrition-focused Landstill approach.
In regards to the current sideboard, it's a mess but there are some elements which bear mentioning:
A) Trinket Mage + Relic of Progenitus: Provides the deck with a way to interact with a successfully milled/discarded legendary Eldrazi (or Progenitus, which is far less of an issue). Just pop the Relic in response to Emrakul hitting the bin and *poof* away he goes. The correct number here really depends on the number of legendary Eldrazi 12-Post lists are running; I've seen as few as 1 and as many as 6.
B) Leyline of Sanctity: Pretty self-explanatory and widely applicable - bring 'em in against any sort of deck with hand disruption or designed to win with direct damage (i.e. Hulk Combo, Storm, Pyromancer, Burn, ect.). I like 2 right now but depending on the popularity of Dragonstorm, the number may increase.
C) Meddling Mage: An extremely versatile answer, provided it survives. Stick one against Dragonstorm and that's essentially game since you can just Ghost Quarter them to death since they don't run enough basics to ever cast a Hellkite. Not sure if there should be 2 or not but hey, this is why we discuss.
D) Venser, the Sojourner + Stonehorn Dignitary: Easily the "cutest" thing that I'm attempting and not entirely sure if it's even worth the two slots but boy is it fun to soft-lock an aggro deck out of the game. The 4 toughness on the Dignitary is a big deal, since a deck like Zoo will have to waste at least 2 burn spells on it since they will ideally have boarded out their Path to Exiles after seeing no creatures except perhaps the lone Sun Titan preboard.
Let me know what you guys think, I'm interested to hear what you all have to say.
Thanks,
Gaints