In fairness, bargain is broken as it is. For the deck in question you need shoal, brand, + some big green card. My point was not that their was no way to know, but that Shoal was from a basically forgotten set a decade ago, and griselbrand was printed a few months after modern went live, meaning it was designed before modern was a thing. That compounded with the fact that they don't test for modern means that they are letting things through that they shouldn't.
Don't get me wrong, I don't believe this deck will last either. For every tweak other decks find to try to shut it down, this one will tweak to get faster and even more consistent. I like dredge and if I can't have my dread return it feels like a slap in the face to allow something just as good. Hell, modern dredge would be nothing because it's missing to many important pieces from legacy. If they want to make rules for the format they need to follow them with every card, not just the ones they don't like.
serious question. do people whine this much about legacy? or are the legacy players just most mature? any non fow deck in legacy can die instantly on t2 and they never cry about bans. they want unbans if anything and modern could uae the same
maybe its lots of standard players arent used to this kind of magic asking for every deck to get banned?
The real problem is that Wizards promised more than they can deliver. They promised an affordable eternal format that bans anything that wins consistently before turn four. The problem is that their were a lot of way to win before turn 4 in this format it is just taking years to find them all. Then they say they aren't testing for the format. They make cards that look good for standard, Dig through time and treasure cruise, but don't figure out if they are good in modern so they need to ban it. Nobody could have looked at Griselbrand and Shoal years ago and seen they would be a problem now. IF they want to stop this they need to test for modern. Without that testing these bans will need to continue to happen. It's not whining, though I don't think Wizards reads these boards, it is a way for people to voice their discomfort with the state of the format Wizards is pushing down our throat.
And what about the people as I've seen all around that make half a deck and the the other half spikes? Say you bought 2 marshflats a month or so ago at $35. You save and get to another $35 this month and see that they are now $60. Alright now you budget so that you can hit that $60 next month but when it comes up the land is now $90. All of the people saying "Oh well I just did this and that to get my cards. I saved and traded up and so forth." That's fine in a stable market when you can see a price one month and the next month it's maybe gone up a dollar or so. But with high, sweeping spikes that don't stop climbing, it's reasonable to think that you will never save up enough. We are currently in a state of spike which I don't recall ever seeing. The jumps and doubling over the course of a month make it impossible for most people to afford anything. And don't say we should have foreseen this because the jumping prices have been happening only for the past year. Without inside knowledge of the FNM Modern decision, none of you had knowledge it would shoot off like this. You were only lucky enough to not find sellers for your fetches before they skyrocketed or had the money to play legacy with the fetches which the same people who couldn't play modern now couldn't play legacy then. I got my fetches now and all is good but my 3 friends that don't have them don't want to play me becuase their decks aren't nearly as consistent as mine. So I'm a have surrounded by have nots and it sucks just as much as not having anyway.
You know what Screw this imma play Pokemon. Gotta catch em all(for pretty cheap actually. Foil first edition Blastoise is like $30)
Name: Sam
Age: 24
Location: NH
Studies/Job: Production/Business major
Non-Magic Hobbies: Bass guitar, writing
Favorite Food: Scallops
Favorite Ice Cream: Apple Pie (Seriously it’s made by Cumberland Farms and it’s pure crack)
Favorite Drink: Moxie
Favorite Band/Artist: Led Zeppelin
Favorite Movie: Any Mel Brooks
Favorite TV Show: Pokemon (Ya…)
Favorite Game (non-Magic): Pathfinder
Something Unique About You: I am named after a beer. My first and middle names are literally Samuel Adam. The s got lost.
First Joine CMB: 2012 I think…
Favorite Card: Liliana of the Veil
Favorite Deck: Wbg Stoneblade or Karador Dredge
Favorite Format: Not sure right now between EDH and Cube
Favorite Card Type: Equipment
Favorite Expansion: Played: Zendikar Wish I played: Morningtide/Shaowmoor
Favorite Artist: Steve Argyl
My First Deck Was: Valakut Ramp
Cards You Would Like to See Reprinted: Dark Confidant (not limited)
If I ruled the word....Universal not ridiculous health care. Seriously American health care sucks nuts. Also cyborgs.
I think this thread is a bit off topic. The power level of commons and uncommons are low by ridiculous standards. They call bolt too powerful so we only get shock, but then shock is too powerful so you throw up good damage red to higher cost and now it's mostly unplayable. It has happened for a long time this way. Wasteland and encroaching wastes are the same rarity, have the same effect, but wastes costs 4 mana to activate. Their is literally no reason for this, and in most cases it just makes you throw away wastes where if the card was a wasteland you would keep it because it's competitively costed. Limited hates both of these cards equally because of the low amount of non basics in draft. Would it hurt to have the card in a set, no. It would make you want to buy packs to crack the card for competitive. Then you look at a set like Dragons Maze where literally the only worthwhile card has teetered between $30 and $60 it's entire life in standard and that's only at mythic.
for modern cards at least this is completely brought on by the new format. I herd the news that modern would be format for FNM December 2012 and 1 week later I got a playset of Marsh Flats and verdant catacombs because they are the cards I knew I would want to play. I knew fetches would go up and I didn't want to pay in. But I don't want them to stay this high. modern cards for most of the pool, were too far out of print when the format was introduced. It put strain on the cards availability. With the recent influx of players and the low availability of good old cards this was bound to happen as soon as their was a GP season for the format. I can entirely understand niche cards like liliana of the veil or Kiki-jiki being expensive of even goyf and dark confidant., ut cards that make up the mana base such as fetches should blessened. Once you have the mana base you have the biggest part of the deck. If Wizards wants people to play in their "Budget competitive" format that they wanted Modern to be (Compared to legacy) they need to e proactive and reprint the non-niche cards. The decks main combo prices, bombs, or control pieces can be expensive because when you want to play another deck you can just trade for the new pieces but the lands need to go down. Tell me truthfully, if modern didn't exist, do you think zen fetches would be as expensive as they are today? I'm not saying that they wouldn't have picked up a it of rice but can you honestly say they would have jumped this much in a year?
buy into the format but don't buy fetchlands. They are the most likely to get printed in bulk and are currently the most expensive cards. Find cheaper lands to play until we get fetch rerint. Modern is probably the best to get into right now because it's competitive and non rotating.
If I was playing burn, I wouldn't be using fetches in the first place. >.<
Apparently you haven't played with grim lavamancer. The ability to eat your own graveyard for reusable damage is a well documented play. Plus he kills his long lost cousin Deathrite Shaman, but shaman can't target him. Point is, filling your yard for lavamancer to eat is proven good and one of the easiest ways to do it is fetches. Most burn decks i've seen play 4-8 red fetches so they can get him shocking to win the game.
So you want a cycle of fetches that are strictly worse than the Onslaught/Zendikar fetches *and* the Mirage fetches? Huh, interesting.
I Would advocate for these only because they would be cheaper as a budget option. I would never say that they were better than the the ones that already exist just cheaper. Also I think the fact that they come in untapped makes this better than the mirage fetchess but worse than zen/onslaught.
The fact that they not only cost life, but are also capable of only fetching one type of land (such as Plains) makes them strictly worse. Now, if they could fetch two kinds of land (like the existing Onslaught/zendikar ones, well... They'd be the zendikar/onslaught ones), or if they didn't cost life to use, they may be better, or at least equal to the mirage ones, but if they are what you suggested, they'd be very, very bad. They'd be terribad.
Here lets take this emample. You're playing Burn and for some reason or another you can't get a hold of the Zen/ onslaught fetchea. It comes down to either these lands or the mirage lands because your playing grim lavamancer and need the fuel. You decide to run Mountain Valley. Your opening hand has only mountian valley in it for lands. The deck can function on only one land because most of it costs 1 mana. But since mountian valley came in tapped you missed your 1 drop. No turn 1 Goblin Guide/vexing devil/lava spike for you. Now if you hit one of these lands it would have the same effect turn 1 for this mono colored deck as a normal zen fetch. Grab a dual/shock/or basic but only with red in it. Now your hitting you're turn 1 play.
Now the way they become worse is if say you are playing RUG Delver and you need to hit blue but you only have the green fetch in hand and for some reason the tropical islands have been removed from your deck. if the green fetch had been misty rainforest you would have been all set.
the same could be said for the swam fetch over marsh flats in pox. Still lands you turn 1 discard but is worse if you needed to keep up STPS white mana.
So you want a cycle of fetches that are strictly worse than the Onslaught/Zendikar fetches *and* the Mirage fetches? Huh, interesting.
I Would advocate for these only because they would be cheaper as a budget option. I would never say that they were better than the the ones that already exist just cheaper. Also I think the fact that they come in untapped makes this better than the mirage fetchess but worse than zen/onslaught.
Thoughtseize went down because it's only usable in decks that can cast it. Mutavault went up because it is equally at home in aggro and control, and can use any color. Both of these are 1 card reprints. Now you reprint a 10 card cycle for fetches. Also upon rotation, don't expect Mutavault to retain it's cost. I don't see fetches going up because Wizards would die for a whole standard season if their dual lands were pushing $100, they would act with this in mind. The coreset is a smaller print than the blocks so less mutavaults per fetch were printed. If the shocks had waited another season to be printed I'm sure that they would have hit the same prices. Also the price of standard cards is based on the drafters. The more they draft and sell off their cards the lower the prices are. This just tells me that M14 didn't get drafted enough to bring down mutavault prices. I know locally M14 sat on the shelves. Above all else I think the amount of packs cracked for a set with fetches will outweigh any other set we have seen recently. This means more into circulation. Also they will probably do what they did with RTR and have them printed in two sets then as a bonus in the third. either way the price drop will ocme about upon their rotation and not by their printing.
I'm in favor of reprints but I really hated the argument at the end where somehow he gets to decide what the price of a card "should" be. I wouldn't buy Teferi at $25 either. That doesn't mean it "isn't" $25. That's not how a market works. Also not a fan of the cursing every other sentence.
I think the problem he has, and I do too, is that it shot up overnight. Also the $25 was in regards to it's cost when he did the vid not the cost he thinks it should be. He was correcting himself because he said it was $40 but found out it had gone back down a bit.
I do like his distinction between TCG and CCG. Magic is not a CCG. You can collect it, but it is meant to be played with. You CAN collect a lot of things; stones, art, small pieces of dryer lint...but their price is based on how many exist. If only one Mona Lisa painted by Da Vinci's own hand exists than it should be expensive. But if on tuesday Teferi is $4 and on wednesday it $40 after a good showing, it is based on play ability. Nobody is collecting Teferi in such large volumes that it should cost that much. So if it is that much because people want to play with it, then the smart thing to do would be to reprint it. They would sell packs to people trying to open the card they want to play with, which is where wizards will make their money anyway.
I don't feel like wizards is proactive enough about reprints for modern. Now I don't think that they should print into oblivion just no card should be even close to $100 in modern. It's the poormans legacy. I think the problem was the way they birthed it. It came about 2 years ago and used cards from as far back as 11 years ago. Then they try to push new players into it when they have a halfway janky standard deck thats an intro deck and a few packs they picked up just to see. Now those people are told to play a format where they own very few, if any staples.(Yes they are being told. Wizards has made it very clear they want as many people as possible playing the format.) I was, for example, 13 when 8th edition came out. Didn't have money for cards. Hadn't even heard of magic. Played for the first time at original ravnica but only had my friend and his older brother to play with. Came back again in 2009 for Alara/Zendikar but didn't have the ability to order offline, didn't have a card shop local, didn't have crap load of money to crack packs. Didn't pull any fetches, didn't pull elspeth, pulled 1 big eldrzi, did get the two jaces which is weird which I still have one of them...but should I be penalized because my parents didn't get it on sooner so I would have been older than 3 when aplha came out so I could have duals? If you say yes then you are whats wrong with the market. I have 3 Lilis and I would like to see her at $15 dollars, which is where she was at rotation. I like the fact that I could turn them into money, but not at the cost of the health of the format. I wouldn't want the next generation on magic players to have any more difficult time getting in than I did and all I ask is for the same from the generation that receeded me.
I had played before walkers were introduced. Came back during worldwake and pulled jace. Didn't have a clue what walkers were so it sat in the inder until I traded it for a koth of the hammer. KOTH OF THE FREAKIN HAMMER!!!!! I was sure that I had struck burn deck gold. I ended up getting the jace back after I sold the guy a few cabinets and some other Real life furniture so in the end he is still in my binder but my god it was hard to get back. traded the koth out of spite.
Modern: Blood Nexus. The deck is a green red ramp deck. You play a lot of lands including Inkmoth Nexus then with one hit you use bloodrush guys from gatecrash like rubblehulk to swing for lethal. The deck can also just turn into beat-down midrange as it has the full playset of primeval titans and 2 inferno titans. also rubblehulk itself can become a huge threat. It dose run the wolf run suite from the wolf run ramp that succeeded Valakut ramp in standard.
Mono black vampire control: Zen/scars standard. Control the board until I can drop a nirkana revanant and a caged sun. let the damage insue.
How I would go about fixing these from breaking Mass LD effects is by making both effects apart of the same activation.
For example:
"T, Sacrifice Uncommon UW Fetch: Add W and U to your mana pool. Search your library for a basic plains or basics island and put it in onto the battlefield tapped. Then shuffle your library."
This would work. Would be killer in limited as I'm sure this could be uncommon.
Don't get me wrong, I don't believe this deck will last either. For every tweak other decks find to try to shut it down, this one will tweak to get faster and even more consistent. I like dredge and if I can't have my dread return it feels like a slap in the face to allow something just as good. Hell, modern dredge would be nothing because it's missing to many important pieces from legacy. If they want to make rules for the format they need to follow them with every card, not just the ones they don't like.
The real problem is that Wizards promised more than they can deliver. They promised an affordable eternal format that bans anything that wins consistently before turn four. The problem is that their were a lot of way to win before turn 4 in this format it is just taking years to find them all. Then they say they aren't testing for the format. They make cards that look good for standard, Dig through time and treasure cruise, but don't figure out if they are good in modern so they need to ban it. Nobody could have looked at Griselbrand and Shoal years ago and seen they would be a problem now. IF they want to stop this they need to test for modern. Without that testing these bans will need to continue to happen. It's not whining, though I don't think Wizards reads these boards, it is a way for people to voice their discomfort with the state of the format Wizards is pushing down our throat.
You know what Screw this imma play Pokemon. Gotta catch em all(for pretty cheap actually. Foil first edition Blastoise is like $30)
Age: 24
Location: NH
Studies/Job: Production/Business major
Non-Magic Hobbies: Bass guitar, writing
Favorite Food: Scallops
Favorite Ice Cream: Apple Pie (Seriously it’s made by Cumberland Farms and it’s pure crack)
Favorite Drink: Moxie
Favorite Band/Artist: Led Zeppelin
Favorite Movie: Any Mel Brooks
Favorite TV Show: Pokemon (Ya…)
Favorite Game (non-Magic): Pathfinder
Something Unique About You: I am named after a beer. My first and middle names are literally Samuel Adam. The s got lost.
First Joine CMB: 2012 I think…
Favorite Card: Liliana of the Veil
Favorite Deck: Wbg Stoneblade or Karador Dredge
Favorite Format: Not sure right now between EDH and Cube
Favorite Card Type: Equipment
Favorite Expansion: Played: Zendikar Wish I played: Morningtide/Shaowmoor
Favorite Artist: Steve Argyl
My First Deck Was: Valakut Ramp
Cards You Would Like to See Reprinted: Dark Confidant (not limited)
If I ruled the word....Universal not ridiculous health care. Seriously American health care sucks nuts. Also cyborgs.
Apparently you haven't played with grim lavamancer. The ability to eat your own graveyard for reusable damage is a well documented play. Plus he kills his long lost cousin Deathrite Shaman, but shaman can't target him. Point is, filling your yard for lavamancer to eat is proven good and one of the easiest ways to do it is fetches. Most burn decks i've seen play 4-8 red fetches so they can get him shocking to win the game.
Here lets take this emample. You're playing Burn and for some reason or another you can't get a hold of the Zen/ onslaught fetchea. It comes down to either these lands or the mirage lands because your playing grim lavamancer and need the fuel. You decide to run Mountain Valley. Your opening hand has only mountian valley in it for lands. The deck can function on only one land because most of it costs 1 mana. But since mountian valley came in tapped you missed your 1 drop. No turn 1 Goblin Guide/vexing devil/lava spike for you. Now if you hit one of these lands it would have the same effect turn 1 for this mono colored deck as a normal zen fetch. Grab a dual/shock/or basic but only with red in it. Now your hitting you're turn 1 play.
Now the way they become worse is if say you are playing RUG Delver and you need to hit blue but you only have the green fetch in hand and for some reason the tropical islands have been removed from your deck. if the green fetch had been misty rainforest you would have been all set.
the same could be said for the swam fetch over marsh flats in pox. Still lands you turn 1 discard but is worse if you needed to keep up STPS white mana.
I Would advocate for these only because they would be cheaper as a budget option. I would never say that they were better than the the ones that already exist just cheaper. Also I think the fact that they come in untapped makes this better than the mirage fetchess but worse than zen/onslaught.
I think the problem he has, and I do too, is that it shot up overnight. Also the $25 was in regards to it's cost when he did the vid not the cost he thinks it should be. He was correcting himself because he said it was $40 but found out it had gone back down a bit.
I do like his distinction between TCG and CCG. Magic is not a CCG. You can collect it, but it is meant to be played with. You CAN collect a lot of things; stones, art, small pieces of dryer lint...but their price is based on how many exist. If only one Mona Lisa painted by Da Vinci's own hand exists than it should be expensive. But if on tuesday Teferi is $4 and on wednesday it $40 after a good showing, it is based on play ability. Nobody is collecting Teferi in such large volumes that it should cost that much. So if it is that much because people want to play with it, then the smart thing to do would be to reprint it. They would sell packs to people trying to open the card they want to play with, which is where wizards will make their money anyway.
I don't feel like wizards is proactive enough about reprints for modern. Now I don't think that they should print into oblivion just no card should be even close to $100 in modern. It's the poormans legacy. I think the problem was the way they birthed it. It came about 2 years ago and used cards from as far back as 11 years ago. Then they try to push new players into it when they have a halfway janky standard deck thats an intro deck and a few packs they picked up just to see. Now those people are told to play a format where they own very few, if any staples.(Yes they are being told. Wizards has made it very clear they want as many people as possible playing the format.) I was, for example, 13 when 8th edition came out. Didn't have money for cards. Hadn't even heard of magic. Played for the first time at original ravnica but only had my friend and his older brother to play with. Came back again in 2009 for Alara/Zendikar but didn't have the ability to order offline, didn't have a card shop local, didn't have crap load of money to crack packs. Didn't pull any fetches, didn't pull elspeth, pulled 1 big eldrzi, did get the two jaces which is weird which I still have one of them...but should I be penalized because my parents didn't get it on sooner so I would have been older than 3 when aplha came out so I could have duals? If you say yes then you are whats wrong with the market. I have 3 Lilis and I would like to see her at $15 dollars, which is where she was at rotation. I like the fact that I could turn them into money, but not at the cost of the health of the format. I wouldn't want the next generation on magic players to have any more difficult time getting in than I did and all I ask is for the same from the generation that receeded me.
Mono black vampire control: Zen/scars standard. Control the board until I can drop a nirkana revanant and a caged sun. let the damage insue.
This would work. Would be killer in limited as I'm sure this could be uncommon.