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You mention how powerful shallow grave and corpse dance are, yet you omit postmortem lunge which in my experience is superior to either of them.
I've found that if your playgroup is strong enough to be okay with you playing hermit druid, then playing hermit druid on turn 2 means there is virtually no chance that he will still be there on turn 3. Unless he has haste, he's hard to use. Two cards that have been extremely effective for me in this regard (and curiously, I never see anyone else use them) is generator servant and lightning mauler. Not only do these creatures give druid haste (even better than a lightning greaves since the druid can get killed before greaves is equipped), but they both function as mana as well (ie, having lightning mauler on the battlefield means you have enough creatures that you don't need to have an extra mana open to use fatestitcher). Paying 1R to get mana plus haste on the druid is definitely worth it.
Do you think Nylea, God of the Hunt is worth it? Gives your dudes trample, allows you kill with infinite mana, and is harder to get rid of than Kamahl.
It's decent. It strikes me as a card that'll be good when you're already doing well, and bad when you're not doing well.
Throwing this together, but I need to make some temporary changes, just due to what I have on me now. So, these aren't really questions to add to your deck, but if they could even function in the list. Mono green is something I haven't taken seriously yet.
Genesis Hydra I've been a huge fan of this in mono green ramp to get artifact pieces for combos. I did it in a lot more casual of a setting, but it looks like it could at least do something here. I figure with untappers generating 20+ mana isn't too much of a strain.
Yeva, Nature's Herald My one big fear is the inevitable Cyclonic Rift. Is it worth having a slot devoted to something like that? I just know some of the best game ending plays are when someone manages to dodge the rift as opposed to counter it.
Cream of the Crop it's totally a pet card I've always wanted to see work really well. Do you see enough hands of exploding out early where if you got this opening hand it might be worth the two mana?
Finally, is it worth slotting in one more protection card for leader if I see a slightly slower meta? I just know that once certain decks set up, it's hard for green to hold it's pivotal piece on the board.
Of the cards mentioned, I'd say that hydra is the one I like the most. I considered ring of three wishes (and even slate of ancestry since there's so many mana creatures in here - that's been my pet card ever since it was so good in an old elf deck of mine) and it's worth considering. Citanul flute is another card I was looking at.
I don't see yeva doing much. Even after getting hit by cyclonic rift. In fact, I don't mind cyclonic rift playing this deck, it's the boardwipes I hate.
And I'd rather have card draw than cream of the crop.
In my early days of playing arcum, I had turn 1: island, sol ring, turn 2: cast grim monolith and power artifact (infinite mana), followed by memory jar which led to casting all kinds of artifacts including planar portal which fetched me a combo piece to win the game.
Yeah that sounds like a tough meta for selvala all right, lol.
I have 7 decks and selvala is probably my 'fairest' one. She's great in 1vs1 but less impressive in a cutthroat meta of 3+ players with lots of destruction and combos.
I remember when I thought turning sideways was a bad way to beat three people...
What's your avg clock for claiming board if youre forced to go for the removal game like Terrastodon? Resolving leader t3 off a dork doesn't always mean you'll be the furthest ahead. Can you manage to grab a reclamation sage along the way? I just know I've won after being hit by 1/3 of Terrastodon, as well as a few 2/3. Is the lack of Bane of Progress a meta choice or does the lack of constant tutor limit the toolbox?
Hi. Bane of progress is awesome and definitely worth more consideration. I used it for a while but I found it hurt me more than other people - I have a lot of artifacts and enchantments in there. And it's hard to say what the clock is since it varies a lot by the number of people and how much disruption they're hitting me with.
I face a lot of combos in my meta which makes terastodon a common target for me, but I could see him being replaced by something else in other metas. I also like how much mana selvala makes with him.
There's a LOT of great cards that I'd love to include in this deck and it pains me to cut one card for another. It's hard to say what the right ratio of tutor/ramp/creatures is optimal and how much focus to put toward combo or aggro. I'm pretty heavily focused on aggro because I eat a lot of removal in my playgroup and it's pretty easy to disrupt combos and stall if I'm too combo-oriented.
Thanks for an awesome list. I'm making my own list right now, and I'm really curious to see how this turns out.
Just have to find something to replace Phyrexian Dreadnought... (my main commander budget is tied up in other things)
I do have a (very old) Natural Order lying somewhere, so that's in. Is Craterhoof Behemoth the only green creature worth searching up with it, or is something like Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger also with including? Also, what are your thoughts on Patron of the Orochi?
Replace phyrexian dreadnought? It's irreplaceable, and the best card in the deck. The mirage one isn't too expensive and I'd definitely do whatever I could to get that card if I were you.
My most common target using natural order is probably terastodon. I'm often in trouble dealing with combo stuff. Vorinclex is great and I considered putting him in, but he just wasn't quite synergistic enough for me. Patron of the orochi isn't a creature I used before and he's not bad, especially if you're on a budget. I know those eldrazi are expensive. If I was making a budget version of this deck, I'd probably put some hydras in. There's a few good ones.
I think I'm going to use him in my casual game with friends, though. They hate infect, and infinite combos. So for political reasons, I'm looking for ways to use this deck and find more "friendly" win conditions. It's slower, yes, but a more enjoyable (for them) casual game, without pissing people off.
I can understand people getting annoyed by combos but I don't know why infect gets so much hate.
I recently gave Selvala a try and she is pretty fun.
Some things that I noticed is that Selvala combos out with Great Oak Guardian + Temur Sabertooth.
Yisan is great in this deck aswell since he can tutor for fatties/untapers.
Hi! Yeah selvala is a blast. When I play her I feel like I'm playing edh the way it should be played, by smashing people with big creatures.
I already have yisan in the deck and I had sabertooth in there too for a while, but I found that I was only doing shenanigans with him after I essentially won the game already. He's quite good, but not quite good enough to make the cut but in other people's metas he might be worth it.
You're right about him being easy to cast but a vanilla 10/10 creature isn't really all that powerful. I use the blightsteel because it can one-shot people, regardless of their life total. And if I have darksteel forge in play, it usually means that I have disk in play too and the game is essentially over so adding a 10/10 creature to that isn't really gonna change anything. I'd regret having metalwork colossus in my hand most of the time.
In the old days the big combo was casting Lim-Dûl's Vault with mirror universe in play, then bring your life total to zero and switch life totals, killing your opponent. Obviously the timing rules changed since then. Sigh, the good ol days.
Another old school card that is deceptively powerful and would be crazy good in this deck is worship. Plus it's fun to play at 1 life all the time.
+1 whir of invention
-1 impulse
You mention how powerful shallow grave and corpse dance are, yet you omit postmortem lunge which in my experience is superior to either of them.
I've found that if your playgroup is strong enough to be okay with you playing hermit druid, then playing hermit druid on turn 2 means there is virtually no chance that he will still be there on turn 3. Unless he has haste, he's hard to use. Two cards that have been extremely effective for me in this regard (and curiously, I never see anyone else use them) is generator servant and lightning mauler. Not only do these creatures give druid haste (even better than a lightning greaves since the druid can get killed before greaves is equipped), but they both function as mana as well (ie, having lightning mauler on the battlefield means you have enough creatures that you don't need to have an extra mana open to use fatestitcher). Paying 1R to get mana plus haste on the druid is definitely worth it.
And chaos type cards.
Of the cards mentioned, I'd say that hydra is the one I like the most. I considered ring of three wishes (and even slate of ancestry since there's so many mana creatures in here - that's been my pet card ever since it was so good in an old elf deck of mine) and it's worth considering. Citanul flute is another card I was looking at.
I don't see yeva doing much. Even after getting hit by cyclonic rift. In fact, I don't mind cyclonic rift playing this deck, it's the boardwipes I hate.
And I'd rather have card draw than cream of the crop.
In my early days of playing arcum, I had turn 1: island, sol ring, turn 2: cast grim monolith and power artifact (infinite mana), followed by memory jar which led to casting all kinds of artifacts including planar portal which fetched me a combo piece to win the game.
I have 7 decks and selvala is probably my 'fairest' one. She's great in 1vs1 but less impressive in a cutthroat meta of 3+ players with lots of destruction and combos.
I face a lot of combos in my meta which makes terastodon a common target for me, but I could see him being replaced by something else in other metas. I also like how much mana selvala makes with him.
There's a LOT of great cards that I'd love to include in this deck and it pains me to cut one card for another. It's hard to say what the right ratio of tutor/ramp/creatures is optimal and how much focus to put toward combo or aggro. I'm pretty heavily focused on aggro because I eat a lot of removal in my playgroup and it's pretty easy to disrupt combos and stall if I'm too combo-oriented.
soul of new phyrexia (this could be amazing with nevinyrral's disk) and endbringer are two other considerations.
My most common target using natural order is probably terastodon. I'm often in trouble dealing with combo stuff. Vorinclex is great and I considered putting him in, but he just wasn't quite synergistic enough for me. Patron of the orochi isn't a creature I used before and he's not bad, especially if you're on a budget. I know those eldrazi are expensive. If I was making a budget version of this deck, I'd probably put some hydras in. There's a few good ones.
One of my old favorite cards that I used to use in this deck was lifeline. It benefits everyone so it's a great political card that rarely gets destroyed, and it's ridiculously good with arcum. So you might consider that. The best is when you have lifeline and bottle gnomes in play. My earlier versions had altar of dementia which was insane with lifeline.
If you want a more aggro version of arcum, some cards to consider are wurmcoil engine, lodestone golem, memnarch, darksteel colossus, myr battlesphere, platinum angel, platinum emperion, duplicant, and steel hellkite.
Two cards worth less than a buck that I often end games with is vandalblast (when mycosynth lattice is out) and boonweaver giant (fetching pattern of rebirth).
I already have yisan in the deck and I had sabertooth in there too for a while, but I found that I was only doing shenanigans with him after I essentially won the game already. He's quite good, but not quite good enough to make the cut but in other people's metas he might be worth it.
Another old school card that is deceptively powerful and would be crazy good in this deck is worship. Plus it's fun to play at 1 life all the time.