MTG Salvation

Quote from FuriouslySleepingIdea

No Grim Lavamancer?

I took him out because of his anti synergy with Goyf and KotR. What would you swap him out for, Loam Lion?

I decided to add a ranger toolbox to my deck and was wondering what I could fetch with them besides the obvious (apes, lions, and nacatls). Here's my list right now. I was thinking of taking out the 2 V cliqs in the board for goblin guides, swapping a forest for another stomping ground, and swapping 1 loam lion and 1 kird ape for other 1 drops to fetch with the ranger. My first choice right now is running 1 goblin bushwhacker and 1 grim lavamancer.







Here's the list with the changes.

Can anybody explain to me why they think it should be Wizard's job to control a secondary market on cards they haven't printed in years? Out of print cards are worth whatever somebody will pay, which is controlled by supply and demand. Whining about prices on a forum isn't going to increase the supply or reduce the demand of cards you can't afford. If you don't like modern prices, you have a few options. Build a competitive affinity deck for $200 (if that since most people already have half the cards for it), or just play standard. However, standard is by far more expensive in the long run than modern. In modern, you spend $1000-1,500 on a deck and that's it, it doesn't really change a whole lot. In standard, you spend $300-400 building a tier 1 deck, and every 3 months you have to spend another $100-300 on cards when a new set comes out to keep the deck competitive. Then when the stuff rotates and you go to sell it, any cards that won't see play in legacy/modern plummet in value from when you purchased them. My Tarmogoyfs aren't going to rotate out of modern, and they will always be worth close to what I got them for.

Quote from -LeetGamer-

Why is Tarmagoyf $100? Like, wtf.... I've been testing this deck out online a lot and they rarely help me, I just kill my opponent with my $.40 commons that get big with a land or two...

Because he's the most powerful 2 mana creature ever printed. He's run in any type of deck you can think of that runs green, and he's popular in every format he's legal in. This translates to lots of people needing Goyfs. He was also in the final set from the block, which means less Future Sight boosters were printed/purchased/drafted. He's one of the most in-demand Magic cards in existence and the supply is not that high. High demand + low supply = high prices. This is the same reason any other card in Magic costs what it does in the second hand market. Economics is your friend

How do people still not understand that the price of a single card in the secondhand market has nothing to do with WotC. If I put a card up on ebay starting at $1.00 with no reserve and it goes for $100, that price is set by the people bidding on it. If a card is worth $100 to enough people, that's how much it's going to cost. It doesn't matter if WotC prints 100 booster boxes of a set or 20 million boxes, the price of a booster and the odds of getting a certain card in that booster are the same. The more people are willing to pay for it in the secondhand market, the more it costs. Whining about it on a forum isn't going to make Magic any cheaper. And for the people complaining about Standard prices, you're lucky you don't play Modern/Legacy/Vintage where a competitive deck costs anywhere from $1k to $20k.

I was playing counter cat but I've gone to a more aggro/one drop zoo. 18-19 creatures just isn't enough without GSZ. Now I'm running
4x Kird Ape
4x Loam Lion
4x Wild Nacatl
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Knight of the Reliquary
2x Qasali Pridemage

I chose Loam Lion, Kird Ape and Wild Nacatl over Goblin Guide because they are always a 2/3 or 3/3 by the turn after they're put in play. I couldn't take KotR out because he's just too powerful early with lots of fetch lands. A turn 4 KotR pumped up with fetchlands makes an opponent choose between dealing with him or dealing with goyf.

For sideboard cards, I like naturalize in place of flashfreeze. You will see a lot more affinity popping up and a lot less combo, so naturalize definitely earns a spot here. I have also sideboarded 2x Vendilion Clique. I like having the flexibility of 3 drops because I think Chalice of the Void will see play in some control decks. This took the place of Aven Mindcensor which I don't really like with GSZ being banned. It also nullifies your own fetchlands which pump up KotR, bad synergy there.

As far as the punishing groves combo is concerned, I would have a mana base that's guaranteed to pump up all of my one drops immediately and I would rather spend my mana playing creatures than dealing damage 2 at a time. It can be an effective combo but I don't feel like it's the most efficient for this type of deck.

I'm going to playtest a dark zoo and see how that does compared to the one drop zoo but I really think this is going to be the deck to beat in modern.

I thought about running it but it just seemed too slow and awkward. With the new meta, a fast zoo deck that can establish board position very early seems like the best way to go.

If you're bored of Goyf decks, how about running 1 of the 100 cards in modern that remove him before he gets big. If an opponent drops Goyf turn 2, you have several turns to deal with him before he gets powerful. I won't even list all the cards that can deal with him by turn 4, because there are honestly way too many to list here. He can be removed with hand disruption, counters, spot removal, sweepers, etc. Every single deck tier 1 modern decklist that I've seen has at least a couple different ways to deal with Goyf. He isn't hexproof, he doesn't fly, he doesn't pump up any of your other creatues, and he takes quite a few turns to become big. I've played a ton of games both against and with Goyf in this format and he is rarely bigger than a 3/4 before he is dealt with (at least against a competent opponent). People who call for a Goyf banning get accused that it's solely on cost because there really isn't any logical reason to ban him. The fact that a card is used in a bunch of different decks is not a reason to ban it unless it either: a) makes a certain archetype unplayable or b) is somehow broken in combination with another card in the format.

For those of you who want to see him banned, could you elaborate on why?

A Tier 1 Affinity list can be built for about $300. Any other type of Tier 1 modern deck that I know of will cost you a bit more though.

However, saying that playing with Goyf and shocklands "isn't fun" because you don't want to spend the money on them is a little ridiculous. There's probably a reason that every decklist you see in the top 8 of any tournament runs shocklands (except Affinity).

Quote from NavyJoe

Echoing what everyone else said, there is no replacement for that guy.

Leatherback Baloth is barely playabe (except in a mono-g)

Personally, if it's half beatdown/half ramp, there is no other choice than Dungrove Elder. He'll be bigger in your deck than goyf. Goyf would be a 3/4 probably at it's biggest (land, sorcery, creature). Where Dungrove is a 4/4 at a minimum when you cast him (unless you drop him too early). His hexproof is so brutal. Put a Warhammer on him and let him clear your way to victory.

How would Dungrove elder be bigger than Goyf unless you're playing mono green? A lot of modern zoos only run 5-7 cards that count as forests (this includes all the shocklands). It's very rare to have all of those in play at the same time. It's much more common to have 4 or 5 different types of cards in the graveyards. Last night in playtesting I was able to get Goyf at 6/7 by turn 5. My opponent thoughtseized me and made me discard Elspeth, and I killed his spellskite. It's nearly impossible to get dungrove elder that powerful by turn 5.

What's the problem with Goyf? You have 4 to 5 turns to find an answer before he gets powerful enough to be scary. The only people that want Goyf banned are the people who can't afford a playset.

To the OP, sorry, there is no substitute for Goyf. If there was a perfect replacement for Goyf, they wouldn't cost $100. I would suggest either building a deck that doesn't include Goyf or coughing up the dough for a playset.

Quote from hopesnow

also, affinity. need ban more card like plating, atog and mox.

also,ban serun visions and sleight of hand.

ban 3 or 4 zoo creature and all the twin combo.
living end and birthing pod also be banned.

then modern format will be fun.

Mental Misstep can be unban but all the 1cc hot cards should be banned. leave misstep to count misstep themselves

You really think the format would be fun if they banned "3 or 4 zoo creatures"?! So if they ban goyf, KotR, kird ape and wild nacatl, there is no more zoo. What is so unfair/cheap/broken about zoo that it needs 3 or 4 creatures banned? Please explain yourself here cuz I gotta hear this.

I guess they decided to cripple every deck from the top 8 at PT philly except Affinity. Wizards apparently wants us to sit there turning creatures sideways over and over again until somebody is at 0 life. This format is well on its way to being standard with a bigger card pool. I got into modern because of all the cool combos and interactions that standard doesn't have but most of them have been banned already and I'm sure plenty more will be on the chopping block soon.

Be careful about making your deck too good! If you make a deck that's too good at winning and a lot of fun to play with, Wizards will hear about it and ban your 2 favorite cards.

Looks like I'll be playing Legacy from now on. I went from playing mostly standard to mostly modern because it WAS a much more fun format. Now they're just going to nerf every deck that gets powerful. I would rather not spend $1,000 every 6 months putting a new tier 1 deck together because Wizards keeps banning every auto-include in the format. They ban cloudpost to stop breachpost because it was keeping control out of the format. Then they ban 2 cards that would be auto includes in any modern control deck and don't unban any good control cards. Way to go Wizards. We now have less fun aggro and combo decks and control will still suck.

Quote from Timothy, Mimeslayer

I personally think that WotC should make it so that no card in modern is above $20 average on the secondary market and no mana fixing land is above $10 but that is just me thinking that accessibility to a format makes it a healthier format.

Now foils, let those be hundreds of dollars for all I care.

So WotC is supposed to reprint things solely based on how expensive they become in the secondary market? Not only is that one of the worst ideas I've ever heard, it kind of sounds like communism.

Quote from tomathan88

it seems like anyone with a budget is forced to play one color and one color only. and even then the deck prices from scratch are high. take death and taxes for example. one color, simple, cheap cards. most expensive card in it is aether vial. yet it is still an average of $150 to buy from scratch. that's a lot of money for cardboard.

i really hope prices go down soon.

LMAO I can't remember a time in the history of Magic where a Tier 1 deck in any format could be built from scratch for $150.