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    posted a message on Putting white on the chopping block...
    What do you need white for, you only need it for MD answers to almost anything in the current meta, your only source of life gain and 2 very important finishers (kotr and elspeth). IMO without helix, pte, kotr, and qasali you'll have a very tough time winning games in this meta. Also, tribal flames has become the most popular/best other burn spell in zoo, and it's useless with a 2 color mana base. Gaddock Teeg is very good at what he does and you lose him too. Rule of Law/ethersworn canonist are out, which are popular answers in zoo as well. Ranger of eos or geist of saint traft are no longer SB options.

    The damage you do to yourself from fetching shocklands is offset by lightning helix. You might lose less life to shocks/fetches in a RG zoo, but how do you plan on gaining any of that life back without helix?

    I think a 5 color zoo would be more playable than a 2 color zoo and that's saying something. You lose wayyy too much when you cut white just to keep from losing a few life to shocklands to make it worth it.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on No Nacatl Zoo
    Yes, molten rain in the list was a typo. It was supposed to be tribal flames. Also, Trygon Predator and Behemoth Sledge were just cards I was experimenting with. I'm going to take them out. Here's my new list after more playtesting last night.

    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on No Nacatl Zoo
    How about this?



    I swapped a mountain for a blood crypt to make tribal flames do 1 extra damage. Lavamancer came out for Geist of Saint Traft. Ranger of Eos came out of the side for Snapcaster.

    I'm also thinking about taking Gideon out of the sideboard for something like spell pierce or surgical extraction. I almost never side him in so I think it's time for him to go.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on No Nacatl Zoo
    Quote from DraeK
    If you got any other possible reason to go against it (aka budget/availability) don't blame the only form of zoo that is actually getting results as unplayable.. or you'll be soon labelled as a troll..


    Budget is not a consideration, I just want the best zoo deck possible. I've already spent over $1,000 on cards for this deck so another $50 for snapcasters isn't a big deal. I just like Geist of Saint Traft better in that slot. I especially like the idea of attacking with geist and using Elspeth's +3/+3 flying buff on geist. Then you have a 4/4 flyer and a 5/5 flyer attacking at once plus whatever else you're throwing at them. That should be enough to deliver lethal by turn 5/6. I will test it with geist and with snapcaster and let you guys know what happens. I already have 4 colors in my mana base so I might also take out a mountain for a blood crypt as I rarely get pathed more than twice in a game.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on No Nacatl Zoo
    Quote from Tzeenc
    Not playing Snapcaster Mage?


    No, because I feel there are better cards for this deck. He's a great card in almost any deck, but I just don't think he quite fits into what zoo wants to do in this format.

    Quote from Ronfar
    In addition to its ability to hit the opponent directly for one quarter of their starting life total, Tribal Flames also kills a lot of creatures that you'd otherwise need Path to Exile to get rid of. Specifically, it kills Tarmogoyf and usually hits Knight of the Reliquary as well.


    Only if you want to run a 5 color mana base. Adding different shocklands that hurt me in other ways but make tribal flames do 1 extra damage the one or two times a game I cast it doesn't make much sense to me. If you want to a run a 5 color modern zoo, sure tribal flames is insanely powerful. However, good luck getting the rest of your deck consistent enough to top 8 at major events.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on Manabases, Shocks vs. M10/Innestrad Dual Lands (Naya/Zoo)
    There are several reasons fetches/shocks are run over M10 duals.

    1. Interaction with Goyf, KotR, Loam Lion, Kird Ape, and Steppe Lynx
    As soon as you crack a fetch, you can play Goyf as a 1/2. Every time you crack a fetch, KotR gets pumped up. The shocklands have the basic land types, which give the +1/+2 to your Lion/Ape or +2/+2 to the Lynx. Without Goyf, KotR, and Lion/Ape/Lynx, you really don't have a zoo any more.

    2. Interaction with tribal flames
    It's easy to hit for 3/4 damage early in the game with tribal flames running shocklands and fetches. It will take longer without them. If you don't run tribal flames it isn't a big deal but more and more zoo decks are running it.

    3. Mana Fixing
    If you run fetches and shocks, you can choose which dual land to grab when you need it. This will set up your plays 2-3 turns ahead of time so you never have to worry about having the right mana for your hand.

    4. Speed
    The deck can hit hard and fast because of turn 1-3 mana fixing. By turn 3, you should have your Lions/Apes pumped up and be able to play a KotR as a 4/4 or 5/5.


    Out of the 13 zoo decks that finished with 15 points or better at Worlds Modern, there wasn't a single M10 or Innistrad dual. Each deck contained at least 8 fetches and at least 6-8 shocks. I wonder why? The bottom line is, there are way too many key cards in this format that rely on lands having the basic land subtypes which M10/Innistrad lands don't have.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on No Nacatl Zoo
    I'm not a huge fan of tribal flames as it seems like a more expensive lightning bolt to me. I had the deck setup without hierarch but after extensive playtesting and advice from several of my friends, I put them back in. Also, you'll notice almost every zoo deck that did well at Worlds Modern was running 4 hierarch. The only ones that did well and didn't have hierarch had snapcaster in that slot. I'll try running tribal flames in place of molten rain and see if that speeds the deck up.

    What do you think about another Trygon predator in the sideboard or a sword of war and peace or feast and famine?
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on Zoo HELP!
    You need at least 20 lands, maybe 21. Try this:
    1x Plains
    1x Mountain
    1x Forest
    4x Arid Mesa
    4x Misty Rainforest
    3x Stomping Ground
    3x Sacred Foundry
    3x Temple Garden

    For creatures, replace woolly thoctar with KotR. Wild Nacatl is banned, replace that with Tarmogoyf (since Tarmogoyf is an AUTOMATIC 4 of in any modern zoo build).

    In the spell department, swap journey to nowhere for path to exile. Take out Incinerate for Lightning Helix. You will need the lifegain with the shocklands and fetches.

    The planeswalker slot in this deck is used to break board stalemates against another zoo or affinity deck. I don't see how Ajani does that. Anything that he can kill can be removed with bolt/path/helix/incinerate/journey etc. Gideon and Elspeth are the best planeswalkers for this spot IMO. If you want to reliably hit them, you need 2 in your main deck.

    To make the extra slots for another land and another planeswalker, try removing 1 pridemage and 1 bloodbraid (or 2 of either depending on which you think will help the most in your metagame).

    What is the sideboard?
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on No Nacatl Zoo
    With Wild Nacatl banned, it's time to update our decklists. With all the undercosted vanilla beatsticks we have, I don't think this will hurt us much. Loam Lion/Kird Ape lost a point of damage and that's it. Here's my new list.



    I'm thinking of taking out the Rangers and Sledge in the side for another Trygon Predator and a couple swords. What do you guys think?
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on [[Official]] The "Complain About Standard Card Prices" Thread
    If they didn't print staples as mythics, what would be the point of mythics? The rarest cards are the most powerful cards, that makes sense. Please show me a type 2 decklist that would cost $800 to make. The most expensive deck I know of right now is solar flare which is a little less than $400 if you're using ebay prices. As far as your Jace comment, does that mean you wish Wizards wouldn't print cards that good because they'll become too expensive? Or should a card like Jace have been a regular rare? Although many things are about skill, you have to have the money to compete in the first place. It doesn't matter if you're a better driver than Sebastian Vettel, if you don't have the money for a car, your skill behind the wheel is irrelevant. Other formats aren't much more expensive? The most recent Standard decks I've built have been $200-300. The most recent Modern deck I built cost $1,200. The most recent Legacy deck I built cost a little over $2,000. Please tell me how Modern and Legacy aren't "much more expensive" than standard. I spent more on a playset of Goyfs or Forces than I spent on my entire type 2 deck. As far as complaining about $40 mythics, how many mythics out of a given set EVER make it to that price? Let's take a look at Innistrad for example. The set just came out, prices will be the highest right now. There is ONE mythic rare in the set over $25. Every other card in the set is $25 or less with the exception of snapcaster, which is a rare, so by your logic a $30 snapcaster should be no big deal because it's the mythics that are ruining everything, right?
    Posted in: Standard (Type 2)
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    posted a message on [[Official]] The "Complain About Standard Card Prices" Thread
    Quote from itachiitachi
    Wotc controls the power level of the cards, people don't just aribtrairly chose cards to buy, they buy the powerful ones.


    Oh ok, so I guess Wizards should stop making such good cards like Goyf and JTMS, then nobody will want to pay a bunch of money for a single card. That's much better for the game of Magic, right?



    Quote from itachiitachi
    No you make mythics big splashy causal cards, with lots of flavor and little tournament impact, and give rares the highest percentage of tournament cards.



    I think that's a horrible idea and defeats the purpose of mythic rares in the first place. BTW, did you know Magic does NOT base the way they design cards on how much they think a card might fetch in the future secondary market? If they did, it would be horrible for the game as a whole. They need to design their sets based on the mechanics. They will never purposely design mythics as casual cards to make them cheaper because that's just plain stupid. They will also never ban a card because of cost, which would also be stupid.


    Quote from itachiitachi
    1. Gasoline price is not due to inflation
    2. Inflation does not double prices after 3 years.



    Maybe using gasoline was a bad example, but yes inflation has something to do with secondhand market prices. The prices haven't doubled in 3 years. Goyf, when he was still standard legal, fetched as high of a price as any standard legal card right now. A tier 1 standard deck 3 years ago cost about the same as it does now, maybe a few bucks more for the planeswalkers.



    Quote from itachiitachi
    This is the complain about standard prices thread, if all you want to do is come here say stop whining about prices and offer no valid points why don't you just start a "complain about, the complain about standard prices" thread.



    I think I offered some extremely valid points.
    a) WoTC isn't responsible for JTMS and Goyf costing nearly $100 on ebay
    b) there is nothing wrong with mythic rarity or the way mythics are designed
    c) anything competitive takes money to win, Magic is no exception
    d) a tier 1 standard deck can be built for cheap, especially compared to EVERY OTHER FORMAT, so why all the complaining about prices?

    I stopped by this thread to see what the hell everybody was complaining about. I recently built a Legacy NO BANT and a Modern Zoo, so I was kind of surprised to see this many people complaining about $25 mythics.

    I decided to put together a deck similiar to the mono red deck that won indy. 24 hours after deciding to build this deck, I had 61 out of 75 cards without spending a dime. This is just from going through my binders and trading with a couple friends. The remaining 14 cards I need can be purchased for less than $100. Once again, this is the deck that won a major tournament recently. If you can't afford to spend $80 on a deck, you should probably not be spending any money on Magic in the first place.
    Posted in: Standard (Type 2)
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    posted a message on [[Official]] The "Complain About Standard Card Prices" Thread
    Quote from Hydrium
    I'm sorry you don't understand supply and demand.

    The price is set by the secondary market after WotC determines its supply.

    This is why you don't see 20 dollar commons, 15 dollar uncommons, 50 dollar rares in standard.

    WotC sets a card at a certain rarity and the price for it will go up or down accordingly.

    Or do you think Jace would've ever hit $100 if it was printed at the common level?




    I fail to see what this has to do with my point. I understand how rarity affects the value of a card, but thanks for that helpful information. None of your post has anything to do with the point I was trying to make. WoTC determines the rarity and supply of the cards, the public determines the demand and what prices they sell at in the secondhand market. My point, in short, is that WoTC has NOTHING TO DO WITH JTMS costing $100 other than the fact that he is a mythic rare. The fact that he's a mythic rare alone doesn't make him $100, as there are plenty of mythic rares that are under $5. WoTC doesn't determine the selling price of JTMS any more, the public does. To blame Wizards for making Jace a mythic rare is kind of ridiculous. What should they do, make the commons the most powerful cards and make mythics 1/1 do nothings? I'm not sure I understand what point you're trying to make here.



    Quote from jaboc
    Wasn't it just a few years ago that the most valuable card might be 10 bucks?
    Or was I that out of touch with the value of cards back then? I rarely buy singles because I enjoy opening boosters too much. (I know it's more expensive) It wasn't till I started selling all my extra cards on Ebay that I noticed how expensive some cards can be.



    Wasn't it just a few years ago that gas was $1.75 a gallon and McDonalds $1 menu had things that were $1 instead of $1.29? It's called inflation, and I don't know when people started thinking that Magic cards were immune to it. We're just lucky that booster packs have only gone up $1 in the past 15 years.


    Quote from Remeiko
    Everyone in this thread just needs a better job.

    Problem solved.



    Haha exactly. If you don't like the prices of Magic cards, guess what? YOU DON'T HAVE TO PLAY MAGIC! Nobody is forcing you to buy these expensive cards. You can either have a Tier 1 deck or you can have a cheap deck. If you want both, you're playing the wrong game. Magic is like anything else that's competitive, it takes money to win. I don't like spending $1,500 on a set of tires that need replaced 2-3 times a season. I can either decide to stop racing, or cough up the money for the tires. Calling Yokohama and whining isn't going to accomplish anything.
    Posted in: Standard (Type 2)
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    posted a message on AVOID MTGFanatic - Evidence of Deceit inside!
    Any other updates about MTGF? I always use ebay. I don't really see a reason to use online vendors over ebay. You can get the best deal, you can find cards that vendors never have in stock, and you can use feedback to see what kind of person you're buying from. I'm just curious to see if MTGF has changed any of their practices after having people all over the Magic community bashing them for a over a year.
    Posted in: Store Discussion
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Quote from mtgbarbados
    When are they reprinting Snapcaster Mage? He's too expensive.


    LMAO. This guy makes a good point. Who decides what makes a Magic card "expensive"? If the $70-100 cards get reprinted, everybody will bitch about $50-70 cards. If they reprint those staples, people will be complaining about $40-50 cards. An "expensive" card is all relative. To somebody who plays Magic 7 days a week and plays in major tournaments, 4 goyfs isn't a big investment. To somebody who just got into Magic and buys a few booster packs on Friday night, goyf is very expensive. I just don't understand why people think it's WotC's responsibility to control a secondhand market on cards they don't even produce any more. If I were WotC, I would rather keep the people happy that have spent thousands of dollars on out of print cards both new and secondhand instead of reprinting any card that gets "expensive". People who paid a lot of money for a card don't want to see the value cut in half because of a reprint. I'm just trying to make people see the other side of the coin here. Not everybody is in the boat of "I can't afford Goyf/shocklands so reprint them." Many people are in the boat of "I spent a TON of money on Goyfs and shocklands so hopefully they don't reprint them and kill the price."
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on Best creatures to fetch with Ranger of Eos
    I was trying out Scute Mob but after playtesting more with it last night I'm not a big fan. I might take him out for lavamancer and try that with the bushwhacker. I like bushwhacker because you can play a nacatl and bushwhacker kicked to finish somebody off. Often times that +1 is the difference between finishing somebody off that turn or drawing the game out, especially in the mirror and against affinity.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on Best creatures to fetch with Ranger of Eos


    I took him out because of his anti synergy with Goyf and KotR. What would you swap him out for, Loam Lion?
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on Best creatures to fetch with Ranger of Eos
    I decided to add a ranger toolbox to my deck and was wondering what I could fetch with them besides the obvious (apes, lions, and nacatls). Here's my list right now. I was thinking of taking out the 2 V cliqs in the board for goblin guides, swapping a forest for another stomping ground, and swapping 1 loam lion and 1 kird ape for other 1 drops to fetch with the ranger. My first choice right now is running 1 goblin bushwhacker and 1 grim lavamancer.







    Here's the list with the changes.


    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Can anybody explain to me why they think it should be Wizard's job to control a secondary market on cards they haven't printed in years? Out of print cards are worth whatever somebody will pay, which is controlled by supply and demand. Whining about prices on a forum isn't going to increase the supply or reduce the demand of cards you can't afford. If you don't like modern prices, you have a few options. Build a competitive affinity deck for $200 (if that since most people already have half the cards for it), or just play standard. However, standard is by far more expensive in the long run than modern. In modern, you spend $1000-1,500 on a deck and that's it, it doesn't really change a whole lot. In standard, you spend $300-400 building a tier 1 deck, and every 3 months you have to spend another $100-300 on cards when a new set comes out to keep the deck competitive. Then when the stuff rotates and you go to sell it, any cards that won't see play in legacy/modern plummet in value from when you purchased them. My Tarmogoyfs aren't going to rotate out of modern, and they will always be worth close to what I got them for.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on [Primer] Zoo
    Quote from -LeetGamer-
    Why is Tarmagoyf $100? Like, wtf.... I've been testing this deck out online a lot and they rarely help me, I just kill my opponent with my $.40 commons that get big with a land or two...



    Because he's the most powerful 2 mana creature ever printed. He's run in any type of deck you can think of that runs green, and he's popular in every format he's legal in. This translates to lots of people needing Goyfs. He was also in the final set from the block, which means less Future Sight boosters were printed/purchased/drafted. He's one of the most in-demand Magic cards in existence and the supply is not that high. High demand + low supply = high prices. This is the same reason any other card in Magic costs what it does in the second hand market. Economics is your friend Smile
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on [Official][Developing] Laboratory Maniac deck
    I'm not sure running 22 land is going to be enough. Especially with a 3 color deck that has sun titans and expensive spells to play. Also take into account that shimmering grotto is going to require an extra mana if you need it for a certain color.


    What do you guys think about adding a couple pods to fetch the phantasm? This is a combo that you need to get off early in the game so I would like a reliable way to get phantasm in play. Once you have Jace out there and start milling, the phantasm combo is kind of unnecessary IMO. At that point in the game it seems like it would just take one turn off the clock for a win more condition.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
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    posted a message on [Official][Developing] Laboratory Maniac deck
    I like swiftfoot boots so much because you can use buried ruin to pluck it out of the graveyard and set up your combo. Another combo I thought about is running metamorph. Once you get the one phantasm in play, you can play a metamorph copying phantasm. Then use his ability to shuffle the metamorph back into your library and mill your entire library in one turn. Play maniac wearing a pair of boots and watch your opponent scoop.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
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    posted a message on [[Official]] The "Complain About Standard Card Prices" Thread
    How do people still not understand that the price of a single card in the secondhand market has nothing to do with WotC. If I put a card up on ebay starting at $1.00 with no reserve and it goes for $100, that price is set by the people bidding on it. If a card is worth $100 to enough people, that's how much it's going to cost. It doesn't matter if WotC prints 100 booster boxes of a set or 20 million boxes, the price of a booster and the odds of getting a certain card in that booster are the same. The more people are willing to pay for it in the secondhand market, the more it costs. Whining about it on a forum isn't going to make Magic any cheaper. And for the people complaining about Standard prices, you're lucky you don't play Modern/Legacy/Vintage where a competitive deck costs anywhere from $1k to $20k.
    Posted in: Standard (Type 2)
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    posted a message on [Official][Developing] Laboratory Maniac deck
    Here's my list. I don't have a sideboard yet.



    Gnaw to the bone will come in handy late game. If the an opponent has swarmed the board you can instantly gain quite a bit of life as long as Jace has been out there milling for a couple turns. Splinterfright just seems too ridiculous in this deck not to run him. I am 50/50 on Rites of Flourishing, I don't like giving my opponent mana ramping, but the extra card draw along with Splinterfright looks really good. At the beginning of your turn you could draw 2, mill 2, play a mill spell or visions, mill 10 with Jace and hopefully get phantasm off, possibly milling well over half your deck on turn 5 or 6.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
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    posted a message on [Official][Developing] Laboratory Maniac deck
    Quote from eggrosdemise
    RUN-----4xSwiftfoot boots to protect your guy



    This is what I was thinking of. I'm working on a decklist right now that splashes green. Jace 3.0 is definitely the centerpiece of this deck and I don't see how it would work without him.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
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    posted a message on Post Bannings
    I was playing counter cat but I've gone to a more aggro/one drop zoo. 18-19 creatures just isn't enough without GSZ. Now I'm running
    4x Kird Ape
    4x Loam Lion
    4x Wild Nacatl
    4x Tarmogoyf
    4x Knight of the Reliquary
    2x Qasali Pridemage

    I chose Loam Lion, Kird Ape and Wild Nacatl over Goblin Guide because they are always a 2/3 or 3/3 by the turn after they're put in play. I couldn't take KotR out because he's just too powerful early with lots of fetch lands. A turn 4 KotR pumped up with fetchlands makes an opponent choose between dealing with him or dealing with goyf.

    For sideboard cards, I like naturalize in place of flashfreeze. You will see a lot more affinity popping up and a lot less combo, so naturalize definitely earns a spot here. I have also sideboarded 2x Vendilion Clique. I like having the flexibility of 3 drops because I think Chalice of the Void will see play in some control decks. This took the place of Aven Mindcensor which I don't really like with GSZ being banned. It also nullifies your own fetchlands which pump up KotR, bad synergy there.

    As far as the punishing groves combo is concerned, I would have a mana base that's guaranteed to pump up all of my one drops immediately and I would rather spend my mana playing creatures than dealing damage 2 at a time. It can be an effective combo but I don't feel like it's the most efficient for this type of deck.

    I'm going to playtest a dark zoo and see how that does compared to the one drop zoo but I really think this is going to be the deck to beat in modern.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on [SCD] Glittering Wish
    I thought about running it but it just seemed too slow and awkward. With the new meta, a fast zoo deck that can establish board position very early seems like the best way to go.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on [Discussion] Cards That Should be Banned in Modern
    If you're bored of Goyf decks, how about running 1 of the 100 cards in modern that remove him before he gets big. If an opponent drops Goyf turn 2, you have several turns to deal with him before he gets powerful. I won't even list all the cards that can deal with him by turn 4, because there are honestly way too many to list here. He can be removed with hand disruption, counters, spot removal, sweepers, etc. Every single deck tier 1 modern decklist that I've seen has at least a couple different ways to deal with Goyf. He isn't hexproof, he doesn't fly, he doesn't pump up any of your other creatues, and he takes quite a few turns to become big. I've played a ton of games both against and with Goyf in this format and he is rarely bigger than a 3/4 before he is dealt with (at least against a competent opponent). People who call for a Goyf banning get accused that it's solely on cost because there really isn't any logical reason to ban him. The fact that a card is used in a bunch of different decks is not a reason to ban it unless it either: a) makes a certain archetype unplayable or b) is somehow broken in combination with another card in the format.

    For those of you who want to see him banned, could you elaborate on why?
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on How many are enjoying this format?
    A Tier 1 Affinity list can be built for about $300. Any other type of Tier 1 modern deck that I know of will cost you a bit more though.

    However, saying that playing with Goyf and shocklands "isn't fun" because you don't want to spend the money on them is a little ridiculous. There's probably a reason that every decklist you see in the top 8 of any tournament runs shocklands (except Affinity).
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on Alternatives to tarmogoyf?
    Quote from NavyJoe
    Echoing what everyone else said, there is no replacement for that guy.

    Leatherback Baloth is barely playabe (except in a mono-g)

    Personally, if it's half beatdown/half ramp, there is no other choice than Dungrove Elder. He'll be bigger in your deck than goyf. Goyf would be a 3/4 probably at it's biggest (land, sorcery, creature). Where Dungrove is a 4/4 at a minimum when you cast him (unless you drop him too early). His hexproof is so brutal. Put a Warhammer on him and let him clear your way to victory.



    How would Dungrove elder be bigger than Goyf unless you're playing mono green? A lot of modern zoos only run 5-7 cards that count as forests (this includes all the shocklands). It's very rare to have all of those in play at the same time. It's much more common to have 4 or 5 different types of cards in the graveyards. Last night in playtesting I was able to get Goyf at 6/7 by turn 5. My opponent thoughtseized me and made me discard Elspeth, and I killed his spellskite. It's nearly impossible to get dungrove elder that powerful by turn 5.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on Alternatives to tarmogoyf?
    What's the problem with Goyf? You have 4 to 5 turns to find an answer before he gets powerful enough to be scary. The only people that want Goyf banned are the people who can't afford a playset.

    To the OP, sorry, there is no substitute for Goyf. If there was a perfect replacement for Goyf, they wouldn't cost $100. I would suggest either building a deck that doesn't include Goyf or coughing up the dough for a playset.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on [Discussion] Current Modern Ban List (9/20 Update)
    Quote from hopesnow
    also, affinity. need ban more card like plating, atog and mox.

    also,ban serun visions and sleight of hand.

    ban 3 or 4 zoo creature and all the twin combo.
    living end and birthing pod also be banned.

    then modern format will be fun.

    Mental Misstep can be unban but all the 1cc hot cards should be banned. leave misstep to count misstep themselves



    You really think the format would be fun if they banned "3 or 4 zoo creatures"?! So if they ban goyf, KotR, kird ape and wild nacatl, there is no more zoo. What is so unfair/cheap/broken about zoo that it needs 3 or 4 creatures banned? Please explain yourself here cuz I gotta hear this.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on [Discussion] Cards That Should be Banned in Modern
    I guess they decided to cripple every deck from the top 8 at PT philly except Affinity. Wizards apparently wants us to sit there turning creatures sideways over and over again until somebody is at 0 life. This format is well on its way to being standard with a bigger card pool. I got into modern because of all the cool combos and interactions that standard doesn't have but most of them have been banned already and I'm sure plenty more will be on the chopping block soon.

    Be careful about making your deck too good! If you make a deck that's too good at winning and a lot of fun to play with, Wizards will hear about it and ban your 2 favorite cards.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on [Discussion] Current Modern Ban List (9/20 Update)
    Looks like I'll be playing Legacy from now on. I went from playing mostly standard to mostly modern because it WAS a much more fun format. Now they're just going to nerf every deck that gets powerful. I would rather not spend $1,000 every 6 months putting a new tier 1 deck together because Wizards keeps banning every auto-include in the format. They ban cloudpost to stop breachpost because it was keeping control out of the format. Then they ban 2 cards that would be auto includes in any modern control deck and don't unban any good control cards. Way to go Wizards. We now have less fun aggro and combo decks and control will still suck.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    I personally think that WotC should make it so that no card in modern is above $20 average on the secondary market and no mana fixing land is above $10 but that is just me thinking that accessibility to a format makes it a healthier format.

    Now foils, let those be hundreds of dollars for all I care.


    So WotC is supposed to reprint things solely based on how expensive they become in the secondary market? Not only is that one of the worst ideas I've ever heard, it kind of sounds like communism.

    Quote from tomathan88
    it seems like anyone with a budget is forced to play one color and one color only. and even then the deck prices from scratch are high. take death and taxes for example. one color, simple, cheap cards. most expensive card in it is aether vial. yet it is still an average of $150 to buy from scratch. that's a lot of money for cardboard.

    i really hope prices go down soon.




    LMAO I can't remember a time in the history of Magic where a Tier 1 deck in any format could be built from scratch for $150.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on [Discussion] Cards That Should be Banned in Modern
    Wow guys, it's a Magic forum. Everybody take a deep breath, it's going to be alright Wink
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on [Discussion] Cards That Should be Banned in Modern
    Quote from hopesnow
    if modern is same as legacy, then why we need play a new format. just play back legacy is ok.

    blue wil continue has cards be banned to keep modern is different from legacy


    Trying to decipher this gives me a headache. Grammar ftw.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on [Discussion] Cards That Should be Banned in Modern
    Quote from hopesnow
    i think the sets of modern is not enough.
    starting from 5 th edition to now is more fun.

    unban Dread Return,Golgari Grave-Troll,Stoneforge Mystic,Umezawa's Jitte,Skullclamp,Sword of the Meek,Dark Depths,Sensei's Divining Top

    ban infect land,GSZ, Splinter Twin, cloudpost, plating


    In other words, "Unban the cards I want to play with, but ban the stuff I don't want to face."
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on [Discussion] Current Modern Ban List
    Quote from Pein
    He doesn't even run firespout on the main.
    Fact is, running 2 colors with 12 colorless mana is difficult. This means you often can't have access to red mana on turn 3.
    If they ban vesuva or glimmerpost then firespout would go to the main deck (if the deck is still decent enough to compete).



    It's not difficult at all, and I have access to red mana by turn 3 in about 95% of the games I play with breachpost. When you run 4 groves, 1 stomping ground, a mountain and 4 gruul signets, that's 10 cards that give you red mana out of 60. That gives you a very good chance to have red mana in your opening hand, and if you don't have a red mana source on the board by turn 3 it's because either you don't want to yet or you got the worst hand/draws ever.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on [Discussion] Cards That Should be Banned in Modern
    If cloudpost or glimmerpost eats the ban hammer, you could swap it for 4x eldrazi temple and run an identical decklist. You can still play breach on turn 3 without cloudpost and you can still cast emrakul easily later in the game with temples in play. Here's how it would go.

    Turn 1 - forest, GSZ for 0 fetching dryad arbor
    Turn 2 - mountain + battlement/wall of roots or any land and a gruul signet
    Turn 3 - any land, through the breach, emrakul

    However, this deck would be more vulnerable to hand disruption and counters because it would take one to two turns longer to be able to hardcast emrakul. It will be interesting to see what people try to do to keep breachpost competitive if Cloudpost gets banned.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on [Discussion] Cards That Should be Banned in Modern
    ^ Which is why they should ban through the breach and eye of ugin. There won't be a way to reliably get emrakul on the table before turn 5 even with cloudpost. What are the chances of getting 3 out of the 4 cloudposts in your deck on the table by turn 4? Through the breach is what makes 12post go from good to broken. Anybody who thinks cloudpost should be banned just hates 12 post period and doesn't care about the health of the meta. The meta is perfectly fine with 12 post in existence. If you don't believe me, just look at the top 8 decks since PT Philly. Breachpost hasn't done much because people are starting to figure out ways to beat it. I want a diverse meta, and banning cloudpost because control players are bitching and whining won't help the meta one bit.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on [Discussion] Cards That Should be Banned in Modern
    I understand that breach post is a powerful deck, but is it really broken? There are plenty of things that can beat it. Despise/duress/thoughtseize will remove breach/emrakul before they hit the table. Ghost quarter/tec edge will blow up eye or cloudpost. Surgical extraction can remove cloudpost entirely once destroyed and any deck can run that card. Negate/mana leak/spell pierce etc all stop breach. There are as many answers to breachpost as there are to splinter twin which is an auto win turn 4 if it resolves. Breachpost can be devastating turn 3/4 but it rarely wins the game that turn (unless your opponent scoops which they usually will).

    As far as what would be banned to slow it down, I doubt they will ban cloudpost. They would be killing an entire archetype instead of just balancing it out. They could ban either breach or emrakul and the deck would be easier to handle but still a top tier deck. Banning breach would prevent turn 3 emrakul which follows their rule of turn 3 combos. Banning eye of ugin would prevent casting emrakul 4 turns in a row which is also broken. This would also follow their previous trend of banning SfM instead of batterskull for example. I doubt they want to kill this deck, it would piss off as many people as it would appease. They need to ban the broken parts which are turn 3 breach/emrakul and tutoring him up any time you want with eye. Hopefully WotC does the sensible thing here and gives the meta a chance to develop a little bit more before neutering a major deck in the format.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on Primer: Gx 12-Post
    I really like Jesse's build from PT Philly. I'm going to run his exact list other than replacing 2 seal of primordium and a qasali pridemage with 3 naturalize. I like the fact that it hits at instant speed, so if they play anything that triggers during your upkeep, you can remove it before it hurts you.

    On another note, why would they ban through the breach? It had 1 deck in the top 8 at Philly. There were 2 splinter twin combo decks and 2 pyromancer ascension decks in the top 8. I don't see how breachpost is unbalanced or broken in a format with plenty of turn 3/4 combo decks.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on Primer: Gx 12-Post
    Vine Trellis would be good in that slot but as Deku said, tribe elder makes the deck more consistent. With GSZ and elder, you should always be able to get an untapped red mana source in play by turn 4 to breach into emrakul.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on [OPPOSITION] Mono....Black.....Jank...:(
    Wurmcoil engine is your friend. I was losing 25 to 1 against a mono black jank deck and dropped wurmcoil. 4 turns later I won the game.I also like an extra BSZ from the board in this matchup. Karn can often be a dead card in your hand because you need your mana to kill their creatures and protect your own so you could try sideboarding him. SE and Memoricide are also important to have in game 2. You shouldn't really need to change any cards in your list, just change what you sideboard in and your play style a little bit and you shouldn't have a problem.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
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    posted a message on Foresee any good?
    Visions of Beyond is better. For one mana, you can gain serious card advantage later in the game when you need it the most. Early game it's hit or miss but in a 4/2 split with Preordain or even Ponder it can be a great card.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
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    posted a message on Current List, Tips?
    Here's the mana base I use. This is pretty common for UB control right now. You can remove the drowned catacomb for swamps and islands if you want your mana a little faster but tar pit is an absolute must in case you can't get a grave titan on the board.
    4x tar pit
    4x drowned catacomb
    4x darkslick shores
    4x tec edge
    4x island
    4x swamp

    Remove 2 vengeful pharaohs, 1 gatekeeper and 1 nighthawk. Add 4 kalastria highborn. Substitute IoK for distress. Run 2x doomblades and 2x go for the throat in case you come up against a mono black deck. Remove mind control, add into the roil. Swap consuming vapors for black suns zenith. Swap 2x ponders for 2x surgical extractions. Remove Jace and add another preordain.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
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    posted a message on help with my control deck
    I play this deck every week at FNM and almost every night against some friends. The biggest problems I have are against vamp and RDW decks. Does anybody have any suggestions for changes?

    Posted in: Standard Archives
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