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  • posted a message on Putting white on the chopping block...
    What do you need white for, you only need it for MD answers to almost anything in the current meta, your only source of life gain and 2 very important finishers (kotr and elspeth). IMO without helix, pte, kotr, and qasali you'll have a very tough time winning games in this meta. Also, tribal flames has become the most popular/best other burn spell in zoo, and it's useless with a 2 color mana base. Gaddock Teeg is very good at what he does and you lose him too. Rule of Law/ethersworn canonist are out, which are popular answers in zoo as well. Ranger of eos or geist of saint traft are no longer SB options.

    The damage you do to yourself from fetching shocklands is offset by lightning helix. You might lose less life to shocks/fetches in a RG zoo, but how do you plan on gaining any of that life back without helix?

    I think a 5 color zoo would be more playable than a 2 color zoo and that's saying something. You lose wayyy too much when you cut white just to keep from losing a few life to shocklands to make it worth it.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on No Nacatl Zoo
    Yes, molten rain in the list was a typo. It was supposed to be tribal flames. Also, Trygon Predator and Behemoth Sledge were just cards I was experimenting with. I'm going to take them out. Here's my new list after more playtesting last night.

    DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Land - 22
    4x Arid Mesa
    4x Misty Rainforest
    2x Marsh Flats
    1x Scalding Tarn
    2x Sacred Foundry
    2x Stomping Ground
    2x Temple Garden
    1x Godless Shrine
    1x Breeding Pool
    1x Horizon Canopy
    1x Plains
    1x Forest

    Creatures - 20
    4x Noble Hierarch
    4x Tarmogoyf
    4x Knight of the Reliquary
    2x Snapcaster Mage
    4x Loam Lion
    2x Qasali Pridemage

    Spells - 16
    4x Lightning Bolt
    4x Path to Exile
    4x Lightning Helix
    4x Tribal Flames

    Planeswalkers - 2
    2x Elspeth, Knight-Errant

    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on No Nacatl Zoo
    How about this?

    DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Land - 22
    4x Arid Mesa
    4x Misty Rainforest
    2x Marsh Flats
    2x Sacred Foundry
    2x Stomping Ground
    2x Temple Garden
    1x Forest
    1x Horizon Canopy
    1x Blood Crypt
    1x Plains
    1x Scalding Tarn
    1x Steam Vents

    Creatures - 20
    4x Noble Hierarch
    4x Tarmogoyf
    4x Knight of the Reliquary
    2x Geist of Saint Traft
    2x Kird Ape
    2x Loam Lion
    2x Qasali Pridemage

    Spells - 16
    4x Lightning Bolt
    4x Path to Exile
    4x Lightning Helix
    4x Molten Rain

    Planeswalkers - 2
    2x Elspeth, Knight-Errant



    I swapped a mountain for a blood crypt to make tribal flames do 1 extra damage. Lavamancer came out for Geist of Saint Traft. Ranger of Eos came out of the side for Snapcaster.

    I'm also thinking about taking Gideon out of the sideboard for something like spell pierce or surgical extraction. I almost never side him in so I think it's time for him to go.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on No Nacatl Zoo
    Quote from DraeK
    If you got any other possible reason to go against it (aka budget/availability) don't blame the only form of zoo that is actually getting results as unplayable.. or you'll be soon labelled as a troll..


    Budget is not a consideration, I just want the best zoo deck possible. I've already spent over $1,000 on cards for this deck so another $50 for snapcasters isn't a big deal. I just like Geist of Saint Traft better in that slot. I especially like the idea of attacking with geist and using Elspeth's +3/+3 flying buff on geist. Then you have a 4/4 flyer and a 5/5 flyer attacking at once plus whatever else you're throwing at them. That should be enough to deliver lethal by turn 5/6. I will test it with geist and with snapcaster and let you guys know what happens. I already have 4 colors in my mana base so I might also take out a mountain for a blood crypt as I rarely get pathed more than twice in a game.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on No Nacatl Zoo
    Quote from Tzeenc
    Not playing Snapcaster Mage?


    No, because I feel there are better cards for this deck. He's a great card in almost any deck, but I just don't think he quite fits into what zoo wants to do in this format.

    Quote from Ronfar
    In addition to its ability to hit the opponent directly for one quarter of their starting life total, Tribal Flames also kills a lot of creatures that you'd otherwise need Path to Exile to get rid of. Specifically, it kills Tarmogoyf and usually hits Knight of the Reliquary as well.


    Only if you want to run a 5 color mana base. Adding different shocklands that hurt me in other ways but make tribal flames do 1 extra damage the one or two times a game I cast it doesn't make much sense to me. If you want to a run a 5 color modern zoo, sure tribal flames is insanely powerful. However, good luck getting the rest of your deck consistent enough to top 8 at major events.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on Manabases, Shocks vs. M10/Innestrad Dual Lands (Naya/Zoo)
    There are several reasons fetches/shocks are run over M10 duals.

    1. Interaction with Goyf, KotR, Loam Lion, Kird Ape, and Steppe Lynx
    As soon as you crack a fetch, you can play Goyf as a 1/2. Every time you crack a fetch, KotR gets pumped up. The shocklands have the basic land types, which give the +1/+2 to your Lion/Ape or +2/+2 to the Lynx. Without Goyf, KotR, and Lion/Ape/Lynx, you really don't have a zoo any more.

    2. Interaction with tribal flames
    It's easy to hit for 3/4 damage early in the game with tribal flames running shocklands and fetches. It will take longer without them. If you don't run tribal flames it isn't a big deal but more and more zoo decks are running it.

    3. Mana Fixing
    If you run fetches and shocks, you can choose which dual land to grab when you need it. This will set up your plays 2-3 turns ahead of time so you never have to worry about having the right mana for your hand.

    4. Speed
    The deck can hit hard and fast because of turn 1-3 mana fixing. By turn 3, you should have your Lions/Apes pumped up and be able to play a KotR as a 4/4 or 5/5.


    Out of the 13 zoo decks that finished with 15 points or better at Worlds Modern, there wasn't a single M10 or Innistrad dual. Each deck contained at least 8 fetches and at least 6-8 shocks. I wonder why? The bottom line is, there are way too many key cards in this format that rely on lands having the basic land subtypes which M10/Innistrad lands don't have.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on No Nacatl Zoo
    I'm not a huge fan of tribal flames as it seems like a more expensive lightning bolt to me. I had the deck setup without hierarch but after extensive playtesting and advice from several of my friends, I put them back in. Also, you'll notice almost every zoo deck that did well at Worlds Modern was running 4 hierarch. The only ones that did well and didn't have hierarch had snapcaster in that slot. I'll try running tribal flames in place of molten rain and see if that speeds the deck up.

    What do you think about another Trygon predator in the sideboard or a sword of war and peace or feast and famine?
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on Zoo HELP!
    You need at least 20 lands, maybe 21. Try this:
    1x Plains
    1x Mountain
    1x Forest
    4x Arid Mesa
    4x Misty Rainforest
    3x Stomping Ground
    3x Sacred Foundry
    3x Temple Garden

    For creatures, replace woolly thoctar with KotR. Wild Nacatl is banned, replace that with Tarmogoyf (since Tarmogoyf is an AUTOMATIC 4 of in any modern zoo build).

    In the spell department, swap journey to nowhere for path to exile. Take out Incinerate for Lightning Helix. You will need the lifegain with the shocklands and fetches.

    The planeswalker slot in this deck is used to break board stalemates against another zoo or affinity deck. I don't see how Ajani does that. Anything that he can kill can be removed with bolt/path/helix/incinerate/journey etc. Gideon and Elspeth are the best planeswalkers for this spot IMO. If you want to reliably hit them, you need 2 in your main deck.

    To make the extra slots for another land and another planeswalker, try removing 1 pridemage and 1 bloodbraid (or 2 of either depending on which you think will help the most in your metagame).

    What is the sideboard?
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on No Nacatl Zoo
    With Wild Nacatl banned, it's time to update our decklists. With all the undercosted vanilla beatsticks we have, I don't think this will hurt us much. Loam Lion/Kird Ape lost a point of damage and that's it. Here's my new list.

    DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Land - 22
    4x Arid Mesa
    4x Misty Rainforest
    2x Marsh Flats
    2x Sacred Foundry
    2x Stomping Ground
    2x Temple Garden
    1x Forest
    1x Horizon Canopy
    1x Mountain
    1x Plains
    1x Scalding Tarn
    1x Steam Vents

    Creatures - 20
    4x Noble Hierarch
    4x Tarmogoyf
    4x Knight of the Reliquary
    2x Grim Lavamancer
    2x Kird Ape
    2x Loam Lion
    2x Qasali Pridemage

    Spells - 16
    4x Lightning Bolt
    4x Path to Exile
    4x Lightning Helix
    4x Molten Rain

    Planeswalkers - 2
    2x Elspeth, Knight-Errant



    I'm thinking of taking out the Rangers and Sledge in the side for another Trygon Predator and a couple swords. What do you guys think?
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on [[Official]] The "Complain About Standard Card Prices" Thread
    If they didn't print staples as mythics, what would be the point of mythics? The rarest cards are the most powerful cards, that makes sense. Please show me a type 2 decklist that would cost $800 to make. The most expensive deck I know of right now is solar flare which is a little less than $400 if you're using ebay prices. As far as your Jace comment, does that mean you wish Wizards wouldn't print cards that good because they'll become too expensive? Or should a card like Jace have been a regular rare? Although many things are about skill, you have to have the money to compete in the first place. It doesn't matter if you're a better driver than Sebastian Vettel, if you don't have the money for a car, your skill behind the wheel is irrelevant. Other formats aren't much more expensive? The most recent Standard decks I've built have been $200-300. The most recent Modern deck I built cost $1,200. The most recent Legacy deck I built cost a little over $2,000. Please tell me how Modern and Legacy aren't "much more expensive" than standard. I spent more on a playset of Goyfs or Forces than I spent on my entire type 2 deck. As far as complaining about $40 mythics, how many mythics out of a given set EVER make it to that price? Let's take a look at Innistrad for example. The set just came out, prices will be the highest right now. There is ONE mythic rare in the set over $25. Every other card in the set is $25 or less with the exception of snapcaster, which is a rare, so by your logic a $30 snapcaster should be no big deal because it's the mythics that are ruining everything, right?
    Posted in: Standard (Type 2)
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