Completely disagree here, 12Post is not what I consider Combo, most definitely Stompy. If you really want to call 12Post combo then Mono-Green Ramp is combo, and that is not the case. Also, Daily's do not do a very good job at representing the entire format, to get a good representation of the format from a single tournament, wait for a PT (This weekend) Or, look at ALL of the daily lists and compare.
I am uncertain if the best deck has been discovered yet. Give it some more time. For now, 12 post and zoo.
Completely agreed here, we haven't even had a decent sized tournament for Modern and people are still jumping to conclusions about the "best" deck. Tbh, Zoo seems quite a bit overrated to me, and 12 Post doesn't seem all that good either considering all of the enormous amounts of hate you can play for it, including the very good Blood Mountain card that wrecks a whole lot of the metagame currently. Honestly, I think Jund is better than both 12 Post and Zoo right now.
Heya Dead it's Wolf, from the forum down the hall.
Good to see you, buddy, how'ya been?
Things have been okay for me, except that I'm a zombie now...
And I don't think my tribe can win.
I think I speak for all of us, I wish that deck could rock.
But we don't stand a chance without... Odyssey and Onslaught block.
So here's an FYI.
This deck ain't gonna fly, sadly...
Agreed, I just don't think Zombies will work well really. Also, did you make that rhyme on purpose?
Searing Meditation looks like it could be a 2 of, maybe more, Intimidation Bolt could be a nice SB card for Zoo and other aggro. I'll get back to tweaking this deck at some point.
I think Wg is not the way to go, the only thing you would splash green for if Goyf and more life gain. Wr is much more solid in the fact that it can crush Zoo and has sideboard options against 12Post. I've actually been running and testing a Wr version of this deck and it works wonders, but it's to late for me to post a deck list now, and I'm just lazy. But think some thing like 4x Lava Spike, 4x Lightning Bolt, 4x Lightning Helix + 4 Martyr of Sands, Soul's Attendant, and Soul Warden, 2 Suture Priest, 4 Ajani Pridemate, 4 O-Ring, and 4 Serra Ascendant. I'm trying to fit in some Squad Hawks because they're awesome with Martyr but I just figure out what to cut.
Let me know how you guys like this, it's essentially Soul Sisters Trio with a fistful of burn. I have been testing it a little bit here and there, the Felidar Sovereign aren't tested yet, but overall the deck seems to do really well against a lot, it even threatens a turn 4 win. Let me know how to fix it up and what should be changed.
I'm still working on a highly optimized deck list, there were (and still are) things I want to test. On a different note however, can we get some sort of testing group? I'm testing on Cockatrice, but I would rather test with people I actually know that they know what they're doing.
Alright, so regarding my last deck that I mentioned (BUg Tezz) I will not be posting that list anytime soon as it is not anywhere near optimized and I need to test with it more. On to the more important things:
In respone to veritoanimus, I will be going through a deck-building process for a Tezz list, in attempts to make the most optimized, competitive deck-list so Tezz can start reaching Top 8's consistently in all tournaments. Before I get to the deck-building process, I would like to mention that we still have another year and two months to make this guy work, and despite what happens, if we keep trying as hard as the majority of people in this thread, we will get it to work. I know as far as I am concerned, this version of Tezz is my favorite Planeswalker so far, and I will test until I get something, and I will find a way to make it work. On to the actual deck-building part of this post.
I will be taking into account things that you guys post, I always check this thread a few times a day, and so I will read every post you have in response to the deck I am going to build. First off, let's start with what the metagame looks like, no, not your metagame, or my metagame, but the entire competitive metagame:
DECKS: Caw Blade-weaknesses include to Torpor Orb (As bad as it is.) Flying (Specifically non-green/black.) Land destruction (Not really going to happen in any deck.) Minor weakness include: Artifact destruction, counters, and removal.
What does this tell us?
Well, put simply, because of this decks dominance, if we're going to run a 3-color Tezz deck, we're pretty much limited to BUg, or BUw. BUr has land destruction, and I might get back to this later, but to be honest, BUr just doesn't fair as well (In my opinion) as BUg or BUw. We have counters and removal in the colors BU already, and the best artifact/enchantment removal you're going to get are in colors G and W. Don't believe me? Take a look: Naturalize, Nature's Claim, Revoke Existence. Now these obviously have there advantages and disadvantages. You might notice they all say destroy target artifact or enchantment, and for good reason because our next match-up is...
U/R/x Variants-weaknesses include instant spead removal (Doom Blade, Go for the Throat.) Enchantment destruction at instant speed, and counters. Pod variants: Artifact destruction, instant speed removal, enchantment destruction (At instant speed.) Counters. Pyro Twin: Enchantment destruction and more enchantment destruction, counters, instant speed removal.
What does this tell us?
To be honest, this just reinforces the fact that Tezz should probably be played in BUg, as they have the instant-speed artifact and enchantment destruction that Twin decks hate. Just look out for those pesky Dispels. This doesn't throw BUw out the window though because...
Tempered Steel/Red Deck Wins-weaknesses include mass creature board wipes (Day of Judgement, to a lesser extent Ratchet Bomb.) Lifelink, (Vampire Nighthawk,) Deathtouch, (Vampire Nighthawk again, Glissa the Traitor, added ability to bring back Ratchet Bomb and other problematic artifacts using cards such as Go for the Throat, and Doom Blade.) Also, artifact removal Red Deck Wins has a greater weakness to counters than tempered steel, but less of an artifact removal weakness, (Although, it's quite nice to get rid of those pesky shrines.)
What does this tell us?
BUw wins this matchup, but only marginally in my opinion. Also, however, BUw small wins add up as this win goes towards both Tempered Steel and Red Deck Wins. The last, but certainly not least deck of all...
Valakut-weaknesses include land destruction + Surgical Extraction, (Get rid of their Valakuts? They also hate Despise + Surgical Extraction, nothing like getting rid of all of their Primeval Titans on turn one) Torpor Orb, (Ugh, again.) Instant speed removal, and non-creature counters such as Spell Pierce, (Although creature counters can be used on Primeval Titans without to much regret.)
What does this tell us?
Well, this tells us that...well, basically Tezz has a VERY hard time with Valakut, doesn't like Valakut one bit in fact, and if there is any match I don't want to see while playing Tezz, you bet that it's Valakut. There is no clear definitive winner here in the triple-color game, both green and white are equally screwed when it comes to Valakut, the only thing I could see giving and edge is green can try to ramp-up and try to play and early Wurmcoil Engine, which makes the match about 1000x easier for you. That is still only a very slight advantage when it comes to BUg or BUw, it doesn't really matter to be honest.
End of deck analysis.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
So, here we see, that barring Valakut, BUg/BUw Tezz both have promising answers for just about every frequently played deck in competitive standard. Deck-building will be in the next post as, it is 1:15 AM here and I am tired, however, cards to think about include:
(All the ones mentioned above) Sword of Feast and Famine Sword of War and Peace Thrumming Bird Inkmoth Nexus Treasure Mage
AND all of the cards mentioned by veritoanimus in his wall of text.
Goodnight and I hope to hear all of your opinions and arguments about what I did wrong while posting this wall of text. Also, I can't wait for opinions on the decklist I will be brewing tomorrow for all of you; the main question to ask yourself now is: should it be BUw, or BUg?
On the Ratchet Bomb discussion, as I mentioned I was a little disappointed with it at the Seattle Open. But it a Tez fishable answer and does do well against problem permanents blue/black have trouble with. It works good against Kuldotha Red and Steel but it is not great. Which is why I added white. I like having a surprise DOJ to wreck their board where as with RB they just play around it and after I pop it, they play more one and two drops and it is rather annoying. But it is an artifact and gives another reason to play Tez. At worst, it is a SB card. But I'm liking 2 MD.
Against Tempered Steel, you're better off waiting for Memnites and Ornithopters to come out, then play RB and exploding it at 0. Save your doom blades for their Steel Overseers.
On another note, I have been working on a competitive list and after a bit more testing and tweaking I should have a decklist to post here.
EDIT: It's UBg and it really turns the aggro Tempered Steel and Kuldotha Red matches from slightly unfavorable into neutral or maybe even slightly favorable.
x4 Lightning Bolt
x4 Mutagenic Growth
x4 Gitaxian Probe
x4 Kiln Fiend
x4 Wee Dragonauts
Those are pretty much auto-includes in a strategy like this. Also, look into Distortion Strike.
Completely agreed here, we haven't even had a decent sized tournament for Modern and people are still jumping to conclusions about the "best" deck. Tbh, Zoo seems quite a bit overrated to me, and 12 Post doesn't seem all that good either considering all of the enormous amounts of hate you can play for it, including the very good Blood Mountain card that wrecks a whole lot of the metagame currently. Honestly, I think Jund is better than both 12 Post and Zoo right now.
Agreed, I just don't think Zombies will work well really. Also, did you make that rhyme on purpose?
4 Ajani Pridemate
2 Martyr of Sands" target="blank">Martyr of Sands
4 Serra Ascendant
4 Soul Warden
2 Suture Priest
4 Soul's Attendant
4 Lightning Helix
4 Lava Spike
4 Oblivion Ring
4 Arid Mesa
4 Mountain
6 Plains
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Tectonic Edge
Let me know how you guys like this, it's essentially Soul
SistersTrio with a fistful of burn. I have been testing it a little bit here and there, the Felidar Sovereign aren't tested yet, but overall the deck seems to do really well against a lot, it even threatens a turn 4 win. Let me know how to fix it up and what should be changed.In respone to veritoanimus, I will be going through a deck-building process for a Tezz list, in attempts to make the most optimized, competitive deck-list so Tezz can start reaching Top 8's consistently in all tournaments. Before I get to the deck-building process, I would like to mention that we still have another year and two months to make this guy work, and despite what happens, if we keep trying as hard as the majority of people in this thread, we will get it to work. I know as far as I am concerned, this version of Tezz is my favorite Planeswalker so far, and I will test until I get something, and I will find a way to make it work. On to the actual deck-building part of this post.
I will be taking into account things that you guys post, I always check this thread a few times a day, and so I will read every post you have in response to the deck I am going to build. First off, let's start with what the metagame looks like, no, not your metagame, or my metagame, but the entire competitive metagame:
DECKS:
Caw Blade-weaknesses include to Torpor Orb (As bad as it is.) Flying (Specifically non-green/black.) Land destruction (Not really going to happen in any deck.) Minor weakness include: Artifact destruction, counters, and removal.
What does this tell us?
Well, put simply, because of this decks dominance, if we're going to run a 3-color Tezz deck, we're pretty much limited to BUg, or BUw. BUr has land destruction, and I might get back to this later, but to be honest, BUr just doesn't fair as well (In my opinion) as BUg or BUw. We have counters and removal in the colors BU already, and the best artifact/enchantment removal you're going to get are in colors G and W. Don't believe me? Take a look: Naturalize, Nature's Claim, Revoke Existence. Now these obviously have there advantages and disadvantages. You might notice they all say destroy target artifact or enchantment, and for good reason because our next match-up is...
U/R/x Variants-weaknesses include instant spead removal (Doom Blade, Go for the Throat.) Enchantment destruction at instant speed, and counters. Pod variants: Artifact destruction, instant speed removal, enchantment destruction (At instant speed.) Counters. Pyro Twin: Enchantment destruction and more enchantment destruction, counters, instant speed removal.
What does this tell us?
To be honest, this just reinforces the fact that Tezz should probably be played in BUg, as they have the instant-speed artifact and enchantment destruction that Twin decks hate. Just look out for those pesky Dispels. This doesn't throw BUw out the window though because...
Tempered Steel/Red Deck Wins-weaknesses include mass creature board wipes (Day of Judgement, to a lesser extent Ratchet Bomb.) Lifelink, (Vampire Nighthawk,) Deathtouch, (Vampire Nighthawk again, Glissa the Traitor, added ability to bring back Ratchet Bomb and other problematic artifacts using cards such as Go for the Throat, and Doom Blade.) Also, artifact removal Red Deck Wins has a greater weakness to counters than tempered steel, but less of an artifact removal weakness, (Although, it's quite nice to get rid of those pesky shrines.)
What does this tell us?
BUw wins this matchup, but only marginally in my opinion. Also, however, BUw small wins add up as this win goes towards both Tempered Steel and Red Deck Wins. The last, but certainly not least deck of all...
Valakut-weaknesses include land destruction + Surgical Extraction, (Get rid of their Valakuts? They also hate Despise + Surgical Extraction, nothing like getting rid of all of their Primeval Titans on turn one) Torpor Orb, (Ugh, again.) Instant speed removal, and non-creature counters such as Spell Pierce, (Although creature counters can be used on Primeval Titans without to much regret.)
What does this tell us?
Well, this tells us that...well, basically Tezz has a VERY hard time with Valakut, doesn't like Valakut one bit in fact, and if there is any match I don't want to see while playing Tezz, you bet that it's Valakut. There is no clear definitive winner here in the triple-color game, both green and white are equally screwed when it comes to Valakut, the only thing I could see giving and edge is green can try to ramp-up and try to play and early Wurmcoil Engine, which makes the match about 1000x easier for you. That is still only a very slight advantage when it comes to BUg or BUw, it doesn't really matter to be honest.
End of deck analysis.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
So, here we see, that barring Valakut, BUg/BUw Tezz both have promising answers for just about every frequently played deck in competitive standard. Deck-building will be in the next post as, it is 1:15 AM here and I am tired, however, cards to think about include:
(All the ones mentioned above)
Sword of Feast and Famine
Sword of War and Peace
Thrumming Bird
Inkmoth Nexus
Treasure Mage
AND all of the cards mentioned by veritoanimus in his wall of text.
Goodnight and I hope to hear all of your opinions and arguments about what I did wrong while posting this wall of text. Also, I can't wait for opinions on the decklist I will be brewing tomorrow for all of you; the main question to ask yourself now is: should it be BUw, or BUg?
Against Tempered Steel, you're better off waiting for Memnites and Ornithopters to come out, then play RB and exploding it at 0. Save your doom blades for their Steel Overseers.
On another note, I have been working on a competitive list and after a bit more testing and tweaking I should have a decklist to post here.
EDIT: It's UBg and it really turns the aggro Tempered Steel and Kuldotha Red matches from slightly unfavorable into neutral or maybe even slightly favorable.