No doubt Pod picked up some decent creatures along the way but it was mainly a deck that went with no bans. It even benefited from other cards getting the axe. The part that is concerning is what happens when Affinity, Twin or other similar decks that have very little to no bans becomes the pillar of the format? Is something from them getting the axe because the format is being constantly dumbed-down around it?
Are we going to have Jund all over again with Junk? It looks like Junk was already 10% or so of the meta, so what happens when all the Pod and Delever player jump to the next best/consistent deck? What are the pros going to say when they're all jumping on the BGx bandwagon for the next PT?
To answer your question: yes. Any deck that climbs to dominance and stays there for an extended period of time should expect an axing of some sort.
Then the format has turned into Extended at that point and defeats the purpose of the format.
Order from chaos. Just like your signature. Think about it.
No, that is called regression because Wizards is randomly dictating the "rotation".
No doubt Pod picked up some decent creatures along the way but it was mainly a deck that went with no bans. It even benefited from other cards getting the axe. The part that is concerning is what happens when Affinity, Twin or other similar decks that have very little to no bans becomes the pillar of the format? Is something from them getting the axe because the format is being constantly dumbed-down around it?
Are we going to have Jund all over again with Junk? It looks like Junk was already 10% or so of the meta, so what happens when all the Pod and Delever player jump to the next best/consistent deck? What are the pros going to say when they're all jumping on the BGx bandwagon for the next PT?
To answer your question: yes. Any deck that climbs to dominance and stays there for an extended period of time should expect an axing of some sort.
Then the format has turned into Extended at that point and defeats the purpose of the format.
For everybody wondering about why Dig Through Time was banned with the reason being Delver I have a little theory on that.
I already said it in the blue problem thread in response to someone else so will just quote myself here.
"OK here comes the thing about Delver decks that you haven't considered. They are playable in Vintage, playable in Legacy(what an understatement), playable in Modern, playable in Pauper. They also dominated Standard for a time. The dominance of Delver decks were stated as the reason why Mana Leak is now considered to powerful for Standard.
Wizards is most likely just tired of it. Enough is enough after all!
We don't need Delver as a Tier 1 deck in basically every format. There is no golden rule that says that that should be the case.
If those bans are Wizards underhanded way of saying that if you want play Delver than go play Legacy then I can't really disagree with them on it.
If you agree with that or not is something that everybody has to decide for himself. It's clear that Wizards doesn't Modern to be just Legacy lite and ridiculous fast combo decks and Delver are probably the first thing that people think about when talking Legacy."
No doubt Pod picked up some decent creatures along the way but it was mainly a deck that went with no bans. It even benefited from other cards getting the axe. The part that is concerning is what happens when Affinity, Twin or other similar decks that have very little to no bans becomes the pillar of the format? Is something from them getting the axe because the format is being constantly dumbed-down around it?
Are we going to have Jund all over again with Junk? It looks like Junk was already 10% or so of the meta, so what happens when all the Pod and Delever player jump to the next best/consistent deck? What are the pros going to say when they're all jumping on the BGx bandwagon for the next PT?
25 pages of butt hurt in 12 hours has to be some kind of record for these forums. These changes are awesome. Look at all the viable decks again. It could have been so much worse. Enough salt in this thread to put Morton's out of business smh.
You're out of you mind if you don't think there is going to be a massive surge in Junk decks. There is a very good chance we see a regression in the format.
Wow, it's even worse reading their reasoning behind this… You really don't think a large majority of Pod players aren't going to replace Pods with Goyfs and some toolbox creatures with Thoughtseize and Inquisition? That deck with it's Lingering Souls, PtE and Abrupt Decays isn't going to slow down those other creature decks at all.
I'd buy the banning if it was actually going to make a difference, but I have a hard time seeing it happen.
This makes no sense. These decisions seem extremely lazy and I'm really loosing interest in Modern fast. We're going back what like 3 months to pre-KTK Modern and then taking out two good decks (Kiki and regular Pod). Stranger things have happened but I don't have high hopes of the Modern PT being anything other than a "Junk-Fest".
TC in Modern is highly played but it didn't make any single deck oppressive.Chalice of the Void did a good job of keeping it in check, and there is nothing wrong with having to use 2-3 sideboard slots for a popular deck and the card isn't bad in a couple other match ups. Pod did put up 10 of the top 32 at GP Omaha, but I would be curious to see it's percentage of the overall field. Plus you were only looking at 3 in the top 16. Seems like a bad move right after a GP with those results. DTT is even worse, I don't even know what to say about that. Scared that everyone would just replace TC with DTT or something? GGT seems insignificant at this point.
TC banned in Legacy seems laughable too. Again, no deck was oppressive. UR Delver was popular but it was very beatable. Hell, was TC even played as much as Brainstorm? It was played a lot, but there were still a couple other cards that were played more.
looking forward to killing soulfire grandmasters before any spells start lifelinking. the card is amazing but its a removal magnet if I've ever seen one. the scenarios some people are envisioning are a bit of magical xmasland. that card is going to get killed on sight like 80% of the time. that said, its going to crush the souls of so many aggro decks.
That is where I am at. It is a strong card, but a very large percentage of Standard removal is going to kill it. I'm not making the "dies to doom blade" argument, but I don't think this card isn't going to be the win button people think it is in Standard. Standard is super hostile towards a 2/2 right now. Decent chunk of Modern's removal is 1 or 2 CMC too.
That demon is pretty nice. Maybe a revival of Mono Black?
% of the field =/= Best deck in the format. Talked to several skilled people during that time about the best deck and it was delver. People were quite afraid of the turn 1 delver turn 2 leak turn 3 geist turn 4 snapcaster leak. Or just throw one vapor snag in there. The deck was absurd in terms of how powerful it was for a standard deck. In terms of win % delver was the best deck then and people hated it.
You're not telling me anything that I haven't already experienced. While Delver was good; it wasn't on the level of Cawblade in any manner. There were a couple decks like Infect and Naya Pod that at a minimum gave Delver absolute fits and was actually decent against the rest of the field. Any anti Cawblade decks pretty much got their teeth kicked in by Valkut.
Also, % of the field was significant because that was kind of the final nail in the coffin for Cawblade. It was putting up 30%+ of the overall meta game and you played Cawblade mirrors all day long.
Delver was the best deck in standard after innistrad and dark ascension with ease. I was there and it was pretty much caw blade in terms of it being the best deck and was the PTQ weapon of choice back then. ISD/RTR was completely different. They didn't have ponder then and the meta shifted a bunch.
Standard is for new players or at least caters to them the most as more players = more money for hasbro/WotC. If there were more combo decks like dragonstorm/ascendancy in standard it would drive people away.
Delver was no where close to the % of the field that Cawblade put up.
Last time, what could $20 get us? In Lorwyn we could get cryptic and mutavault, only bitterblossom and Garruk were higher in that block.
Now, what does $20 get us? Hero's Downfall at its peak was close to that amount, which was a ludicrous thing. And that is just spot removal. Lorwyn's most expensive removal spell was Profane Command, but it only commanded a $10 price. And the relative power, I believe it isn't close; Profane is the better card overall for what it can do.
What I'm saying is that if we argue on relative terms, we aren't really getting the bang for our buck. Fetchlands aside of course.
Uh… Do you mind checking out the difference in player base size, rarities and the fact that HDF has mostly been a $5 to $10 card with the exception of a month or so of spiking that topped out at roughly $15.
Not a fan. It's the same as last standard with creature decks running riot (aggro, midrange,) the odd jank mazes end deck (jeskai ascendancy combo,) the burn deck BUT no 4 mana unconditional board wipe so "goodstuff creature spam" wins. Control got a swift kick to the balls. What I don't get is with all these super powerful undercosted creatures everywhere, there is no classic control staple Wrath of God to even the playing field. 5 mana is a bit too much to ask for a board wipe in these conditions.
I'm taking a leaf out of Goldmanes book, my other book and I'm quitting standard forever (again.)
Wrath. Of. God. Wizards. Make. It. Happen.
What the? I don't ev…
How is this even remotely close to last standard at this point? This sounds like the comments of a player that finds a hard time adjusting or unwilling to change but is more then willing to blame other things instead of admitting to their own short comings.
There is no point in running white if you're not running Elspeth, Light, or Utter End.
Did you look at the deck? I'm asking because Utter End is in the deck and has been since the beginning. And I've already given my reasons as to why I'm not running Elspeth. At least, not yet. As for Banishing Light... It's a tough call for me to make. Typically, I prefer unconditional removal. I realize that Last Breath only hits specific creatures with power 2 or less, but there are SO MANY cards in the current and future meta that it works wonders on. And we're talking set pieces that these decks NEED in order to function properly:
-Mono Black Devotion: Nightveil Specter and Gray Merchant of Asphodel (granted Gary does his thing when he ETB, so this point is kinda moot. But he makes an efficient wall, so getting him out of the way may not be a bad thing).
And these are just a few examples off the top of my head. The thing I don't like about cards like Banishing Light, is that it is an enchantment, and enchantments can easily be broken. Especially with all the enchantment removal we have available coming off of an enchantment block. Maybe I'd run it as a 3 of in the sideboard in place of the Revoke Existences and and the singleton Silence the Believers.
Made very specific statements about the deck list but of course I didn't read it...
You do realize that 4 of the 7 cards named won't be legal when KTK is in right? You also realize that those decks could cease to exist come rotation. Sure, it's rotation so you need to plan for at my best guess right now BUG Control, Red and/or Black aggro decks and some form of Monster decks, but your deck is very middle of the road right now. You're loaded up on removal, but you're still running two Garruks and the full set of Thoughtseize.
You're criminally under rating Banishing Light, Temples and Utter End. These cards go a long way in any match up and help the versatility of the deck the first couple weeks when control decks are aiming in the dark. I'll take 4 Scry triggers over 4 life any day of the week and they add consistence. Banishing Light is an oh ***** button. You don't and probably shouldn't run the full playset, but this card takes care of anything that could be a problem. Same with Utter End, these two cards add redundancy to the deck that make it more consistent. They will not be dead cards in any match up.
You probably want to bump up the land count to 25 and maybe test 26. The curve is higher and color intensive with only 1 set of mana dorks. Also, Nissa. She is a freaking beast. Don't forget Urborg is a card that can help the manabase in fixing and less pain.
No, that is called regression because Wizards is randomly dictating the "rotation".
Then the format has turned into Extended at that point and defeats the purpose of the format.
Get rid of Delver…?
Are we going to have Jund all over again with Junk? It looks like Junk was already 10% or so of the meta, so what happens when all the Pod and Delever player jump to the next best/consistent deck? What are the pros going to say when they're all jumping on the BGx bandwagon for the next PT?
You're out of you mind if you don't think there is going to be a massive surge in Junk decks. There is a very good chance we see a regression in the format.
I'd buy the banning if it was actually going to make a difference, but I have a hard time seeing it happen.
TC in Modern is highly played but it didn't make any single deck oppressive.Chalice of the Void did a good job of keeping it in check, and there is nothing wrong with having to use 2-3 sideboard slots for a popular deck and the card isn't bad in a couple other match ups. Pod did put up 10 of the top 32 at GP Omaha, but I would be curious to see it's percentage of the overall field. Plus you were only looking at 3 in the top 16. Seems like a bad move right after a GP with those results. DTT is even worse, I don't even know what to say about that. Scared that everyone would just replace TC with DTT or something? GGT seems insignificant at this point.
TC banned in Legacy seems laughable too. Again, no deck was oppressive. UR Delver was popular but it was very beatable. Hell, was TC even played as much as Brainstorm? It was played a lot, but there were still a couple other cards that were played more.
That is where I am at. It is a strong card, but a very large percentage of Standard removal is going to kill it. I'm not making the "dies to doom blade" argument, but I don't think this card isn't going to be the win button people think it is in Standard. Standard is super hostile towards a 2/2 right now. Decent chunk of Modern's removal is 1 or 2 CMC too.
That demon is pretty nice. Maybe a revival of Mono Black?
You're not telling me anything that I haven't already experienced. While Delver was good; it wasn't on the level of Cawblade in any manner. There were a couple decks like Infect and Naya Pod that at a minimum gave Delver absolute fits and was actually decent against the rest of the field. Any anti Cawblade decks pretty much got their teeth kicked in by Valkut.
Also, % of the field was significant because that was kind of the final nail in the coffin for Cawblade. It was putting up 30%+ of the overall meta game and you played Cawblade mirrors all day long.
Delver was no where close to the % of the field that Cawblade put up.
Uh… Do you mind checking out the difference in player base size, rarities and the fact that HDF has mostly been a $5 to $10 card with the exception of a month or so of spiking that topped out at roughly $15.
What the? I don't ev…
How is this even remotely close to last standard at this point? This sounds like the comments of a player that finds a hard time adjusting or unwilling to change but is more then willing to blame other things instead of admitting to their own short comings.
Made very specific statements about the deck list but of course I didn't read it...
You do realize that 4 of the 7 cards named won't be legal when KTK is in right? You also realize that those decks could cease to exist come rotation. Sure, it's rotation so you need to plan for at my best guess right now BUG Control, Red and/or Black aggro decks and some form of Monster decks, but your deck is very middle of the road right now. You're loaded up on removal, but you're still running two Garruks and the full set of Thoughtseize.
You're criminally under rating Banishing Light, Temples and Utter End. These cards go a long way in any match up and help the versatility of the deck the first couple weeks when control decks are aiming in the dark. I'll take 4 Scry triggers over 4 life any day of the week and they add consistence. Banishing Light is an oh ***** button. You don't and probably shouldn't run the full playset, but this card takes care of anything that could be a problem. Same with Utter End, these two cards add redundancy to the deck that make it more consistent. They will not be dead cards in any match up.
You probably want to bump up the land count to 25 and maybe test 26. The curve is higher and color intensive with only 1 set of mana dorks. Also, Nissa. She is a freaking beast. Don't forget Urborg is a card that can help the manabase in fixing and less pain.