The other guilds have been steadily getting better but Orvhov has consistently lagged behind. I have exchanged Tidehollow Sculler for Gerrard's Verdict to Obzedat, Ghost Council back to Tidehollow Sculler- or in other words "decent but boring" to "unplayed" to "powerful but rarely castable" back to "decent but boring." This card does it's job well enough. Wizards may have recently printed more oblivion ring variants but my cube is far from a saturation point of that effect.
I understand why people are comparing this to Vindicate. Let's be real though, this doesn't have to be Vindicate in order to be good.
If there is something that my cube seriously lacks it's potent six drops. Apart from the Titan cycle, there really isn't much. Am I crazy to be considering running SSS and this card? I really like Kiora but that would be what I cut for this. My 4 card Simic section would include Trygon, Edric, SSS, and the Mauler. I'm trying to limit the number of walkers and am always looking to support ramp targets. Thoughts/Opinions??
I definitely agree with Wtwlf. This would have been an auto-include, no questions asked, if it were mono-black. Even though I recognize that this card is probably the 4th or 5th most powerful Orzhov card I cannot justify running another walker that has some overlap with his Innistrad self (although I definitely appreciate their differences). I have been trying to reduce the number of planeswalkers, especially at the four mana casting cost.
Not to harp on Golgari Longlegs but i was speaking in a constructed way, not limited way. I have to agree it's a pretty decent limited card. But in constructed it's absolutely horrible.
His point is valid. If wizards had included more commons and uncommons the pacing would not have felt so off. I agree that feeling is based off of the impression past leaks have created. Nonethless, a more commons/uncommons spoiled may appear to be much but it had the potential for a bigger draw to the mothership. Personally it matters not what rarity, cubable cards is what I am after. The same could be said for the casual/limited/edh players.
I appreciate that my initial question hasn't devolved into pissing and moaning. If player feedback could help them improve set interest, then so be it.
On a side note, I acknowledge the counter argument that no matter what they do, only those who are interested in the spoiler in the first place would benefit from this. Even if increased pacing doesn't improve site attendance, it may improve player satisfaction.
Captain was a mtg member who would give out riddles for cards. Maybe I have his name wrong but I've seen him do this for a couple of past sets.
To empathogen: I'm referring to volume, not the fact that they were five mythics ( in which case it would be 117/249. Given the current rate we would just be a little over half by the time the full visual spoiler goes up. The example of a whiny post, as given in the sticky, has someone complaining of less than half spoiled three weeks out, not 1-3 days (Monday or Wednesday of predicted full visual spoiler)
Let me preface this by saying that I am very conscientious of the mods and fear that they may believe this question to be answered in the sticky. To everyone else, please do not flame I am not in the know.
We are a week away from the prerelease and we are all aware of the rate at which cards have been spoiled. My question is simple: is this season what wizards always has intended to do but, due to many small leaks, has never been able to accomplish? Please do not take this as a sign if impatience or speculation, I'm unaware of what wizards envisions as the ideal rate at which things are revealed. If so, please use historical examples of sets past that have been similar to give me a better idea.
Sorry to the mods if you take this as antagonistic to your sticky, I didn't see that your explanation adequately answered this.
Blinding Beam is much better than what you described, and it sees zero play in regular cubes.
And neither is draw 2, discard 2 (izzet charm) or counter target sorcery (dimir charm) but the versatility of the card is where the value lays. This may not be modal but it plays very similar to the charms. If you need fireball, cryptic tap down, arc trail or silence you have them all at your disposal. I would like this in a mid-range, control build even more than aggro but I wouldn't be embarrassed to run it in my Boros beatdown. I say this card is insane, not due to the inherent power level, because it gives value in the ways it can be played.
Also my cube is 640. So this as a snap include has as much to do with the shallowness of Boros in a bigger cube.
Our playgroup has a very good Mayael Player. I suggested Quicksilver Amulet because of the overly exorbitant CMC of his creatures. Although susceptible to the artifact hate in our group, he's absolutely loved it.
Please feel free to make any comments about the list. I would greatly appreciate any suggestions. I would love as much feedback as possible! Thanks!:D
Why Post Another Animar Deck?
Lately I've read many posts about Animar that I whole heartedly disagreed with. The general trend of late has been to point out how frail Animar as a combo deck can be. Unfortunately this couldn't be further from the truth. The ability to abuse cost reduction necessitates a higher concentration of access to bouncing our own perms. Animar's greatest strength is maintaining hand size because of the focusing reusing the same ETB. The higher concentration of counterspells are needed to protect combo pieces and against board sweepers. I've also had an individual criticize the deck because cards like Sadistic Sacrament andJester's Cap exist:o. I honestly believe that they are too slow against the deck to be of any real danger, if they do cast it there are most definitely ways to respond. In the unlikely situation that they can remove combo pieces from the deck the strategy morphs into primarily ETB abuse. The deck is build with a Momir Vig, Simic Visionary skeleton. I gladly sacrifice toolbox for the speed of counter laden Animar, which tends to happen by turn 5. Please note that when suggesting cards that CMC really needs to be taken into consideration, 47/61(75%; 63-2 X tutors) cards costed under 4 CMC.
The truth is that I would love for criticism/questions/suggestions so that I can continue to fine tune. Of note, I will not use Animar to include Mana denial spells. Acidic Slime is fine, Avalanche Riders is a different story.
Palinchron is one of the most important combo pieces in the deck. The deck can win with combo but it doesn't need to. If any of these pieces come up there are many ways to draw into/tutor for going off. Please understand that I am well aware that these combos are only safe for 1v1. This deck is intended to be able to play both, ergo that is why it is listed under multiplayer. A greater level of discretion would be used for attempting to go off during a multiplayer game.
Weird Harvest seems like an odd choice. However when you can tutor for a package of cards which include Palinchron you use the infinite mana to combo off with:
Palinchron+ Equilibrium= All opponents creatures to hand Palinchron +Equilbrium +Any ETB (can exile all opponents creatures, destroy all lands, infinite creature tutor, return all lands, infinite draw...etc.)
Obvious Combos (are obvious) Cloudstone Curio (best card in the deck) + Aluren + Any two creatures with cmc 3 or less (Infinite draw, bounce) Cloudstone Curio + Aluren + Any two creatures with cmc 3 or less + Opposition= Game Lock, Tap
Opponents lands during their upkeep
If there are any others that I have missed feel free to mention them so I can be as thorough as possible.
Something to Remember
Animar has Combos but isn't limited to them. There have been games where Animar has been on the end of a Chaos Warp with no counter in hand. The deck still has the ability to win because it focuses wholeheartedly on abusing ETB, with or without him. The deck runs straight value.
Gelf, I've seen some interest in some cards from M12 like warstorm surge (I cut it from a potential build because it was god awfully slow). However the two sleeper cards for this style deck are Sphinx of Uthuun and Garruk's Horde. The former seemed really good because of a reusable FOF. From my testing I've had it easily castable around turn 5. It also helps that I've tried to use more bounce, such as erratic portal, crystal shard and tradewind rider. I had to have my leg pulled for the latter card from M12. The card actually has been really good. I always tutor for Primordial Sage first then Garruk's Horde which allows you to chain together nicely, that is if I don't need a single combo piece and need value. It's effect makes the card feel like the Animar specific Future Sight. I haven't had a problem casting it so I'm not sure how slow it may actually be.
You made a comment about Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur being in the optimal build, I would like to see what other griefer cards you would add in. I've had Jin hit turn five and it's just win. I hope that is the reason that opposition isn't on the list because that card is brutal in here.
Have a similar Animar deck to yours. I've attempted at being as cut throat as I possibly can be, there are some minor differences with my build. The one card that I do not think you should overlook for it's value with Animar: Voidmage Husher. He strings together nicely even when you aren't playing him for the Stifle effect. Many times I'll play a creature return him, recast at a single blue (99% of games), play another creature, return... He's a great reusable stifle and is very synergistic with "cantrippers" to amass a counter laden Animar.
Edit: Wow, noticed him on the list! Well then don't I feel like a fool.
I was told that these combination of cards (personal sanctuary and immolating souleater don't allow for you to pay infinitely. Is this due to the fact that you have to pay life in order to get the effect and since you can't lose life you can't pay it's alternative cost? Someone please explain to me the basis for this? Much thanks!
I'm really interested in your results with soothsaying. How do you like it? I am assuming that since your cmc is so low that you are going for the combo heavy version of animar instead of the dump big fatties build. This card seems really good in a build like this. I know, from all outword appearances looks bad, but I added Garruk's Horde because of being so creature heavy. I noticed that with any filter effect the card became a real engine to chain things together. So this card seems like another top or rack to me. What's been your results so far?
Edit: To Bhealfur: You made me recheck my own cmc. I have 45 spells under cmc4.
1.) Lingering souls
2.) Vindicate
3.) Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
4.) Utter End
The other guilds have been steadily getting better but Orvhov has consistently lagged behind. I have exchanged Tidehollow Sculler for Gerrard's Verdict to Obzedat, Ghost Council back to Tidehollow Sculler- or in other words "decent but boring" to "unplayed" to "powerful but rarely castable" back to "decent but boring." This card does it's job well enough. Wizards may have recently printed more oblivion ring variants but my cube is far from a saturation point of that effect.
I understand why people are comparing this to Vindicate. Let's be real though, this doesn't have to be Vindicate in order to be good.
Edit: Spelling Error
His point is valid. If wizards had included more commons and uncommons the pacing would not have felt so off. I agree that feeling is based off of the impression past leaks have created. Nonethless, a more commons/uncommons spoiled may appear to be much but it had the potential for a bigger draw to the mothership. Personally it matters not what rarity, cubable cards is what I am after. The same could be said for the casual/limited/edh players.
I appreciate that my initial question hasn't devolved into pissing and moaning. If player feedback could help them improve set interest, then so be it.
On a side note, I acknowledge the counter argument that no matter what they do, only those who are interested in the spoiler in the first place would benefit from this. Even if increased pacing doesn't improve site attendance, it may improve player satisfaction.
To empathogen: I'm referring to volume, not the fact that they were five mythics ( in which case it would be 117/249. Given the current rate we would just be a little over half by the time the full visual spoiler goes up. The example of a whiny post, as given in the sticky, has someone complaining of less than half spoiled three weeks out, not 1-3 days (Monday or Wednesday of predicted full visual spoiler)
We are a week away from the prerelease and we are all aware of the rate at which cards have been spoiled. My question is simple: is this season what wizards always has intended to do but, due to many small leaks, has never been able to accomplish? Please do not take this as a sign if impatience or speculation, I'm unaware of what wizards envisions as the ideal rate at which things are revealed. If so, please use historical examples of sets past that have been similar to give me a better idea.
Sorry to the mods if you take this as antagonistic to your sticky, I didn't see that your explanation adequately answered this.
On a side note, what happened to captain black?
And neither is draw 2, discard 2 (izzet charm) or counter target sorcery (dimir charm) but the versatility of the card is where the value lays. This may not be modal but it plays very similar to the charms. If you need fireball, cryptic tap down, arc trail or silence you have them all at your disposal. I would like this in a mid-range, control build even more than aggro but I wouldn't be embarrassed to run it in my Boros beatdown. I say this card is insane, not due to the inherent power level, because it gives value in the ways it can be played.
Also my cube is 640. So this as a snap include has as much to do with the shallowness of Boros in a bigger cube.
Why Post Another Animar Deck?
The truth is that I would love for criticism/questions/suggestions so that I can continue to fine tune. Of note, I will not use Animar to include Mana denial spells. Acidic Slime is fine, Avalanche Riders is a different story.
1 Animar, Soul of Elements
Engine: 3
2 Cloudstone Curio
3 Equilibrium
4 Aluren
Bounce: 6
5 Dream Stalker
6 Man-O'-War
7 Aether Adept
8 Tradewind Rider
9 Crystal Shard
10 Erratic Portal
Cantrip/Draw/CA: 13
11 Elvish Visionary
12 Wall of Blossoms
13 Coiling Oracle
14 Garruk's Horde
15 Bloodbraid Elf
16 Primordial Sage
17 Fact of Fiction
18 Mulldrifter
19 Consecrated Sphinx
20 Sphinx of Uthuun
21 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
22 Stroke of Genius
23 Nin, the Pain Artist
24 Worldly Tutor
25 Fauna Shaman
26 Fabricate
27 Trinket Mage (*Mana Fix for Art. Land)
28 Long-Term Plans
29 Imperial Recruiter
30 Gamble
31 Primeval Titan (*Ramp)
32 Brutalizer Exarch (*NC Spot Removal)
Ramp: 7
33 Sol Ring
34 Wood Elves
35 Cultivate
36 Kodama's Reach
37 Solemn Simulacrum
38 Oracle of Mul Daya
39 Explosive Vegetation
Counters/Cards that make friends: 12
40 Vendilion Clique
41 Voidslime
42 Hinder
43 Spell Crumple
44 Voidmage Husher (*Engine Piece for Second Return Clause)
45 Cryptic Command
46 Mystic Snake
47 Sower of Temptation
48 Glen Elendra Archmage
49 Venser, Shaper Savant
50 Draining Whelk
51 Acidic Slime
52 Duplicant
53 Phyrexian Ingester
Value: 4
54 Eternal Witness
55 Clone
56 Phyrexian Metamorph
57 Riku of Two Reflections
Artifacts: 2
58 Sensei's Divining Top
59 Scroll Rack
Combo Pieces: 6
60 Pestermite
61 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
62 Opposition
63 Palinchron
64 Tidesprout Tyrant
65 Weird Harvest
35x Lands: Coming Soon
Combo/Synergies
Palinchron is one of the most important combo pieces in the deck. The deck can win with combo but it doesn't need to. If any of these pieces come up there are many ways to draw into/tutor for going off. Please understand that I am well aware that these combos are only safe for 1v1. This deck is intended to be able to play both, ergo that is why it is listed under multiplayer. A greater level of discretion would be used for attempting to go off during a multiplayer game.
Palinchron + Animar, Element of Souls =Infinite Counters on Animar
When Animar is active:
Weird Harvest seems like an odd choice. However when you can tutor for a package of cards which include Palinchron you use the infinite mana to combo off with:
1: Palinchron + Tidesprout Tyrant=Board Bounce
2: Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker +Pestermite
3: Palionchron + Riku of Two Reflections= Infinite Palinchrons
Ulterior Palinchron Combos:
1: Nin, the Pain Artist + Palinchron= Infinite draw or Deck opponent (*Assuming the PA has been on board)
2: Palinchron+Stroke of Genius= Infinite draw or Deck Opponent
3: Palinchron + Primordial Sage=Infinite Draw
Palinchron+ Equilibrium= All opponents creatures to hand
Palinchron +Equilbrium +Any ETB (can exile all opponents creatures, destroy all lands, infinite creature tutor, return all lands, infinite draw...etc.)
Obvious Combos (are obvious)
Cloudstone Curio (best card in the deck) + Aluren + Any two creatures with cmc 3 or less (Infinite draw, bounce)
Cloudstone Curio + Aluren + Any two creatures with cmc 3 or less + Opposition= Game Lock, Tap
Opponents lands during their upkeep
Aluren + (either) Man-o'-War/ Aether Adept instant speed infinite counters
Managing Spells with counter creatures
Crystal Shard/Erratic Portal/Tradewind Rider + Mystic Snake/Draining Whelk/ Venser, Shaper Savant/Glen Elendra Archmage(to a lesser extent, remove persist counters)
If there are any others that I have missed feel free to mention them so I can be as thorough as possible.
Something to Remember
You made a comment about Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur being in the optimal build, I would like to see what other griefer cards you would add in. I've had Jin hit turn five and it's just win. I hope that is the reason that opposition isn't on the list because that card is brutal in here.
Edit: Wow, noticed him on the list! Well then don't I feel like a fool.
I'm really interested in your results with soothsaying. How do you like it? I am assuming that since your cmc is so low that you are going for the combo heavy version of animar instead of the dump big fatties build. This card seems really good in a build like this. I know, from all outword appearances looks bad, but I added Garruk's Horde because of being so creature heavy. I noticed that with any filter effect the card became a real engine to chain things together. So this card seems like another top or rack to me. What's been your results so far?
Edit: To Bhealfur: You made me recheck my own cmc. I have 45 spells under cmc4.
To everyone else on the initial post:Also I realized that there was more ramp in here with Solemn Simulacrum and Garruk Wildspeaker.