Awesome videos man(Subscribed!), I'm interested to see how this deck evolves.
It's a little hard to hear your commentary with the music volume though, if you could please turn it down a smidge
Also, it seems like Searing Blood has been fairly good against you and seems pretty good against the field. Maybe -3 Shock +3 Searing Blood?
And I can't help but want to see a couple Rakdos's Return in the 75...Some how, Some way, it's such a powerful card. Maybe cut some of that removal. I know they are for different match ups, but 3 Doom Blade, 3 Dark Betrayal, 2 Mizzium Mortars, 3 Dreadbore, and 3 Hero's Downfall?
Seems like an overload on removal, none of which can go to the dome.
First off, despite being a fair card, this is likely the 2nd worst charm we've seen so far (Simic Charm is pretty bad). It's not too bad though. A lot of people beat aggro through blocking, which this prevents. 2nd ability is crap, and the third ability is only good to wrath Lingering Souls. It's not as awesome as most other charms, but still fairly good. Thoughts?
I hope that's a joke, Simic Charm is fantastic. All 3 modes are relevant and useful, it completely hoses Sels Charm and Azor Charm with the Hexproof.
I ran that BBD's Junk list through a few Dailies. It was ok, I like the idea of ramping 1-3-5 into Thrag and Garruk...But I really hate the Keyrunes. They just don't do enough to warrant a spot.
I just ran a Daily with 4 Sorin, 3 Garruk, but went 1-2, 40-27...I suck
After fooling around with Jund Midrange, Esper Midrange, and Bant Control, I find myself gravitating to Junk Midrange and I think a good starting point would be the top 16 deck from GP San Antonio listed above. There wasn't much discussion about the list other than the above post. It seems pretty strong to me but I don't have the experience with the deck that all of you have. So what are your thoughts on Thomason's deck?
Four Gavony feels like two to three too many and three Selesnya Charm MB might be dated now with all the fast aggro decks and the only real target for it being Thundermaw. I know the charm is good in other ways but I think those slots would be better filled with something else.
Yea you're right, there wasn't any discussion about Thomason's deck from the GP. I agree, we should be talking about it, it's a sweet deck.
Lingering Souls has definitely gone up in value in my book and Thomason plays a full 4.
I know, I know...Souls is absolutely horrible against Jace, Olivia, Sphere, Sever, Hellkite and Rancor.
All heavily played cards, but for 3 and 2 mana, you get 2 1/1 flyers. It's not like your investing a lot into the Souls. Their main purpose is to be an early road block or an early threat, whatever the situation calls for. And if they get removed, so what. Just don't overextend with them.
I think 4 Township is right in this deck too because you have 4 Souls and 8 Dorks. Township shines with cheap creatures and it also helps you to get the job done w/o overextending.
I would agree w/ the Sels Charm statement, I would much rather have Ult Price in that slot, but you can see he has 2 Price in the Side.
I really like the deck, but for some reason I just don't like playing Mana Dorks I really want to be playing Farseek Ramp with xSweeper.
Lost game 3 of Match 4 to a Jace Mem Adept. Decked me! I removed Vraska from my SB, but after this defeat I'm going to make room for her again. Updated Sideboard:
I hear you with the Naya idea. From the release of RTR I was looking into Naya, coming from Wolf Run I was all in on the Red Green plan. I just needed a 3rd color and White seemed best, but w/o the GR Shock Lands and the Gruul cards and also discovering your States deck. I decided to ditch Red in favor of Black.
Problem is, Blacks Removal isn't really all that great these days.
I'm just not sure how I feel about jumping Black for Red. Yes Bonfire is cool because now we can run Sweepers + Mana Dorks...But I think Bonfire might fall into the same rut Terminus has, Miracle or Bust. (I'm still running Terminus BTW, 4 Main)
I love Huntmaster since he can single handily win you the game vs UW Flash.
It's funny you brought up Burning Oil. I was thinking of using a similar card vs Aggro. Righteous Blow No flashback, but pretty much the same concept.
Let me know how your testing goes with Naya.
@ Pedros,
I just added 1 Golgari Charm to my Side for the Hoof deck. It's great vs Souls and Mana Dorks. It's actually been a sweet addition, thanks Conley!
Me personally, I don't want to add a 4th or 5th color to my deck. Sometimes I get mana screwed out of White or Black as it is and adding a 4th/5th color just isn't where I want to be.
I don't like Mayor, but that was in the previous meta and he seems to be a little better now. I might give him a shot vs control.
@ Maligance,
Healer vs Smiter, I really can't come to a decision. I like both, but it can't be right to play them @ a 2/2 split...can it???
Obviously Smiter is much better vs Control.
The question is who is better vs aggro. At first glance, it's easily Healer, right? Well not in my experience. Yes the life gain is nice, but that 3/3 body dies to both Brimestone and Searing Spear and that's a Huge factor. You might have just gained 3 life, but you have no blockers and R/x Aggro is barreling in for way more than 3 life.
Smiter can actually stop early attacks for a couple turns or make them sac a creature and removal to kill it, or just 2 removal spells.
I'm really up in the air about this one, I like Smiters board presence and I like Healers life gain. I don't know which is more important.
I agree with you on Decay and especially Vault. Decay has been a pleasant surprise for me. Yea sometimes I can't cast it until turn 3 or 4, but it's really come through.
About Vault, I love that card. It has saved me vs aggro countless times.
GP Charleston and GP San Antonio where crushed by R/x Aggro.
Thragtusk who?!?
Thragtusk is clearly not enough to keep these Aggro decks at bay. I can't even keep them off me with 4 Thrag and 4 Centaur Healer!
Falkenrath Aristocrat, Hellrider and Thundermaw Hellkite are 3 Hasty behemoths that we need answers to.
I changed a few things with my deck list before running the 8pm Daily on Modo. Basically I wanted to add more cheap removal. I cut all 4 Healers in favor of 2 Lingering Souls and 2 Loxodon Smiter. I added Lingering Souls strictly for Falkenrath Aristocrat, Souls are great against a 4/1 body. I also thought of adding tragic Slip, it's still an option. Souls sucks against Hellkite, Jace, Rancor, Olivia... Just saying. The smiters came in because they could dodge Searing Spear, unlike Healer. I also cut a few of the top end cards like Armada Wurm for some more removal.
I agree Cassial, we need way earlier removal than turn 6 (Terminus).
I tried Divine, but I think I gave it the boot too soon, I'll give it another go.
Death Wind was ok, but too mana intensive. I like it's versatility in that it can hit small and big creatures at instant speed, but I think Charm or Ult Price are just better.
I think we are on the same page with our removal, in numbers at least. We are both looking at 8 removal spells main board.
I went 0-2 in a Daily attempt last night.
1-2 GW Aggro
0-2 Naya Midrange
I just broke down my 66 Match Daily history. Here it is, for what it's worth:
BR Control 1-0
Red Rites 3-1
R/x Aggro 3-5
Bg Zombies 1-0
GW Aggro 3-1
RG Aggro 1-0
Jund 4-5
Junk Rites 4-0
UWR Tempo 4-3
Bant Control 3-1
UW Tempo/Flash 2-2
Blue Rites 2-1
Junk Tokens 1-0
Naya Midrange 0-1
UW Aggro 0-1
Grixis Control 0-1
Esper Control 0-1
UW Control 1-0
**EDITE**
Divine Reckoning isn't playing out too well. I'd much rather have Barter in Blood. Making change / trying to test mana base.
Cassial, nice break down. I like ur list. I'm going to be trying death wind, I think thats the card. It's xB Target creature get -x/-x. Instant. Might be too man's intensive, but I'll test it.
About the heartless deck, I tried it out and spoke about it a few pages back. Not a huge fan, heartless in multiples is pretty bad.
I have a few videos up on Youtube I recorded when I was playing WRR. I would like to get on Twitch, I just don't know how. I'll look into it. Streaming is awesome because it helps both the people watching you become better and the person playing.
Speaking on playing, I just ran another Daily. 3-1, 33-21
Those pesky R/x Aggro decks are so hard to beat. I just don't get it. I stalled on 3 mana in game 2, but wtf.
I'm going to do some testing with Divine Reckoning and if that doesn't work out, I'll test Barter in Blood next.
I added Trostani x2 to the Board for aggro matchups and I drew her once, but was unable to play her due to mana screw. GGWW isn't easy to cast. I think Trostani might be a step in the right direction though.
It's a little hard to hear your commentary with the music volume though, if you could please turn it down a smidge
Also, it seems like Searing Blood has been fairly good against you and seems pretty good against the field. Maybe -3 Shock +3 Searing Blood?
And I can't help but want to see a couple Rakdos's Return in the 75...Some how, Some way, it's such a powerful card. Maybe cut some of that removal. I know they are for different match ups, but 3 Doom Blade, 3 Dark Betrayal, 2 Mizzium Mortars, 3 Dreadbore, and 3 Hero's Downfall?
Seems like an overload on removal, none of which can go to the dome.
I hope that's a joke, Simic Charm is fantastic. All 3 modes are relevant and useful, it completely hoses Sels Charm and Azor Charm with the Hexproof.
I just ran a Daily with 4 Sorin, 3 Garruk, but went 1-2, 40-27...I suck
UW Flash 0-2
BR Zombies 2-1
Esper Control 0-2
Yea you're right, there wasn't any discussion about Thomason's deck from the GP. I agree, we should be talking about it, it's a sweet deck.
Lingering Souls has definitely gone up in value in my book and Thomason plays a full 4.
I know, I know...Souls is absolutely horrible against Jace, Olivia, Sphere, Sever, Hellkite and Rancor.
All heavily played cards, but for 3 and 2 mana, you get 2 1/1 flyers. It's not like your investing a lot into the Souls. Their main purpose is to be an early road block or an early threat, whatever the situation calls for. And if they get removed, so what. Just don't overextend with them.
I think 4 Township is right in this deck too because you have 4 Souls and 8 Dorks. Township shines with cheap creatures and it also helps you to get the job done w/o overextending.
I would agree w/ the Sels Charm statement, I would much rather have Ult Price in that slot, but you can see he has 2 Price in the Side.
I really like the deck, but for some reason I just don't like playing Mana Dorks
60 cards
4 Forest
4 Gavony Township
1 Isolated Chapel
4 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
4 Sunpetal Grove
1 Swamp
4 Temple Garden
1 Woodland Cemetery
24 lands
2 Armada Wurm
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Borderland Ranger
2 Loxodon Smiter
4 Restoration Angel
4 Thragtusk
24 creatures
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Lingering Souls
3 Selesnya Charm
9 other spells
3 planeswalkers
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Golgari Charm
2 Loxodon Smiter
1 Nearheath Pilgrim
3 Rest in Peace
2 Triumph of Ferocity
2 Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
2 Ultimate Price
Timmy Thomason
Top 16
Grand Prix San Antonio 2012, Standard
60 cards
4 Forest
4 Gavony Township
1 Isolated Chapel
4 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
4 Sunpetal Grove
1 Swamp
4 Temple Garden
1 Woodland Cemetery
24 lands
4 Arbor Elf
2 Armada Wurm
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Borderland Ranger
2 Loxodon Smiter
4 Restoration Angel
4 Thragtusk
24 creatures
4 Lingering Souls
3 Selesnya Charm
9 other spells
3 Garruk, Primal Hunter
3 planeswalkers
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Golgari Charm
2 Loxodon Smiter
1 Nearheath Pilgrim
3 Rest in Peace
2 Triumph of Ferocity
2 Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
2 Ultimate Price
Edit:
2-2 in Daily 39-25
BR Zombies 2-1
RDW 0-2
RGWB Midrange 2-0
UWR Tempo 1-2
Lost game 3 of Match 4 to a Jace Mem Adept. Decked me! I removed Vraska from my SB, but after this defeat I'm going to make room for her again. Updated Sideboard:
2 Garruk, Primal Hunter :Long Games
1 Golgari Charm :Supreme Verdict/Bonfire/Frites/Mana Dorks/Enchantments
2 Purify the Grave :Frites
1 Sever the Bloodline :Creatures
2 Triumph of Ferocity :Control/Decks low on Creatures
2 Trostani, Selesnya's Voice :Aggro
2 Unburial Rites :Rakdos's Return
2 Vraska the Unseen :Planeswalker Decks
Problem is, Blacks Removal isn't really all that great these days.
I'm just not sure how I feel about jumping Black for Red. Yes Bonfire is cool because now we can run Sweepers + Mana Dorks...But I think Bonfire might fall into the same rut Terminus has, Miracle or Bust. (I'm still running Terminus BTW, 4 Main)
I love Huntmaster since he can single handily win you the game vs UW Flash.
It's funny you brought up Burning Oil. I was thinking of using a similar card vs Aggro. Righteous Blow No flashback, but pretty much the same concept.
Let me know how your testing goes with Naya.
@ Pedros,
Me personally, I don't want to add a 4th or 5th color to my deck. Sometimes I get mana screwed out of White or Black as it is and adding a 4th/5th color just isn't where I want to be.
I don't like Mayor, but that was in the previous meta and he seems to be a little better now. I might give him a shot vs control.
@ Maligance,
Obviously Smiter is much better vs Control.
The question is who is better vs aggro. At first glance, it's easily Healer, right? Well not in my experience. Yes the life gain is nice, but that 3/3 body dies to both Brimestone and Searing Spear and that's a Huge factor. You might have just gained 3 life, but you have no blockers and R/x Aggro is barreling in for way more than 3 life.
Smiter can actually stop early attacks for a couple turns or make them sac a creature and removal to kill it, or just 2 removal spells.
I'm really up in the air about this one, I like Smiters board presence and I like Healers life gain. I don't know which is more important.
I agree with you on Decay and especially Vault. Decay has been a pleasant surprise for me. Yea sometimes I can't cast it until turn 3 or 4, but it's really come through.
About Vault, I love that card. It has saved me vs aggro countless times.
Thragtusk who?!?
Thragtusk is clearly not enough to keep these Aggro decks at bay. I can't even keep them off me with 4 Thrag and 4 Centaur Healer!
Falkenrath Aristocrat, Hellrider and Thundermaw Hellkite are 3 Hasty behemoths that we need answers to.
I changed a few things with my deck list before running the 8pm Daily on Modo. Basically I wanted to add more cheap removal. I cut all 4 Healers in favor of 2 Lingering Souls and 2 Loxodon Smiter. I added Lingering Souls strictly for Falkenrath Aristocrat, Souls are great against a 4/1 body. I also thought of adding tragic Slip, it's still an option. Souls sucks against Hellkite, Jace, Rancor, Olivia... Just saying. The smiters came in because they could dodge Searing Spear, unlike Healer. I also cut a few of the top end cards like Armada Wurm for some more removal.
Deck List:
4 Farseek
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Ultimate Price
2 Lingering Souls
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Borderland Ranger
2 Loxodon Smiter
1 Sever the Bloodline
2 Disciple of Bloas
4 Restoration Angel
2 Sigarda, Host of Herons
4 Thragtusk
4 Terminus
2 Angel of Serenity
Jund Midrange 2-0
Bant Control 2-1
GW Aggro 2-0
RDW 2-0
Of course my first 2 matches where against Jund and Bant Control!!! So all this Aggro removal I just added to the deck was going to waste.
My last 2 Matches where against GW Aggro and RDW, so I finally got to get some real testing in.
I still feel like the deck needs work, but I like the extra removal. It really makes a difference.
I agree Cassial, we need way earlier removal than turn 6 (Terminus).
I tried Divine, but I think I gave it the boot too soon, I'll give it another go.
Death Wind was ok, but too mana intensive. I like it's versatility in that it can hit small and big creatures at instant speed, but I think Charm or Ult Price are just better.
I think we are on the same page with our removal, in numbers at least. We are both looking at 8 removal spells main board.
I went 0-2 in a Daily attempt last night.
0-2 Naya Midrange
I just broke down my 66 Match Daily history. Here it is, for what it's worth:
Red Rites 3-1
R/x Aggro 3-5
Bg Zombies 1-0
GW Aggro 3-1
RG Aggro 1-0
Jund 4-5
Junk Rites 4-0
UWR Tempo 4-3
Bant Control 3-1
UW Tempo/Flash 2-2
Blue Rites 2-1
Junk Tokens 1-0
Naya Midrange 0-1
UW Aggro 0-1
Grixis Control 0-1
Esper Control 0-1
UW Control 1-0
**EDITE**
Divine Reckoning isn't playing out too well. I'd much rather have Barter in Blood. Making change / trying to test mana base.
25 land
4 farseek
2 sels charm
4 healer
4 resto angel
2 discipline of bolas
2 sever
2 sigarda
4 thragtusk
3 terminus
2 armada
2 serenity
2 ult price
2 border land ranger
About the heartless deck, I tried it out and spoke about it a few pages back. Not a huge fan, heartless in multiples is pretty bad.
I have a few videos up on Youtube I recorded when I was playing WRR. I would like to get on Twitch, I just don't know how. I'll look into it. Streaming is awesome because it helps both the people watching you become better and the person playing.
Speaking on playing, I just ran another Daily. 3-1, 33-21
Junk Tokens 2-0
Jund Midrange 2-1
BR Agrgo 0-2
GW Aggro 2-0
Those pesky R/x Aggro decks are so hard to beat. I just don't get it. I stalled on 3 mana in game 2, but wtf.
I'm going to do some testing with Divine Reckoning and if that doesn't work out, I'll test Barter in Blood next.
I added Trostani x2 to the Board for aggro matchups and I drew her once, but was unable to play her due to mana screw. GGWW isn't easy to cast. I think Trostani might be a step in the right direction though.
@ Psychobabble,
No I don't run an aggressive GW Deck. It's supposed to be more controlling, but apparently not.
I've gone 4-0 twice and 3-1 a few times with my deck. I've also gone 0-2, 1-2 and 2-2 quite a few times.
R/x Aggro is just giving me headaches lately, so fast.
I'm going to try a couple Divine Reckoning over Terminus.