I myself have gone back to the Butcher builds as well. I've since won a game day, placed second in another, and top 8ed a third with my list. I am not on the hangarback plan yet, but I theorize that hangarback doesn't follow the game plan this deck follows. Our game 1 is very aggressive, and I don't feel that a doomed travel for 2cmc follows this path. Having to invest mana into it and not being able to attack with it is too slow for us, and it stops us from curving out into hordeling Outburst/rabble into Butcher.
I am also playing a fair amount of burn for reach, totalling in at 10 burn spells. I'll post my list when I have some time, as I am currently at work.
With the meta shaping up as it is I am left wondering if UB Faeries w/ Bitter blossom is really the best Faeries deck? Before BB was unbanned there were some UR Faeries lists getting played that I think may end up being better in the meta. These lists tend to run Vial with a higher creature count, lower land count, and a bunch of burn to close out the game.
Courser is far from a bad card in this deck. Delve strategies have more library manipulation than any other style deck which makes courser even better. Dont like your top card you see with courser? fine, play Commune, or Satyr, or a scry land. Stuck with a low impact creature on top? Slam Sidisi? Still dont like the top card ? Crack a fetch Land
6 scry + 4 commune + 4 Satyr + 4 Sidisi +4 Fetches = 22 cards that help manipulate the library if you run that base i dont run fetches so i run 18.
Phenax is a 5 drop enchantment that does nothing against aggro and is bad on curve against midrange which means the only time it is good is if the board state is Clogged or against control
If you want a 5 drop that will break open stalemates try looking at Doomwake Giant if you dont think we run enough enchants, 4 Courser 4 Nyx Weaver 1-2 whip 2-3 Doomwake Giant 0-1 Pharika, God of Affliction, gives 11-14 enchants which is more than enough. Alot of players are relying on Hornet Queen to stop creature swarms and Doomwake stops her .
I play doomwake giants, but the cards aren't comparable. They do two different things.
I agree, they do different things. One does something, where the other in a 5 mana time walk you cast on yourself. Very different.
I'm not sure I agree on Conurser but what I do know is that he is roughly unlimited times better, and higher impact, then Phenax. Phenax does less work then a banner, and that's saying a lot. I have a feeling you are emotionally attached to the version of the deck youve come to and this can skew ones outlook on what is good and bad. If you give us situations where you feel Phenax excels I'm sure we could give you examples of cards that are actually good and playable to improve your deck.
Before working on the sideboard you should work on the mana base. You'll never be able to cast your spells on time and thus void and null any reason to be playing 4 colors. If given the option between power and consistency you should always side with consistency. You'll need 19*20 after sideboard* black, 19 white, 18*19 after sideboard* red, and 13 blue for the spells you have selected. I am willing to bet that a non-green core 4-5cc list isn't the least bit viable. Good luck!
The problem you guys are having is you are debating two mediocre cards. They both come down too late and don't effect the board in a meaningful way. The problem is not needing more milling but an actual way to win. The archetype I suppose tries to answer that but it doesn't feel like the right answer.
The God though just doesn't do enough. It is not easy to turn on. You have to have it, whip, sidisi, and another black or blue mana source out. If you do have all that out, then extra milling will not be that great since you should just be attacking.
Phenax is an actual way to win, with a gummed up board phenax is a lot easier to win with than to hope your archetype sticks, isn't removed in response to attacks, and you actually have enough damage in a deck full of dorks and cantrips etc.
I think you misunderstand, I don't think either card should be in the deck. There are other better options.
I fully understand what you said I'm just letting you know its wrong. To play 3 chords and recursions you need good 1 ofs, Phenax is a good one of especially in our grindy matchups, not having to attack through rhinos and sorins is a sure fire way to win in a format with no burn outside of Jeskai and no Trample or Gray Merchants. Not to mention with all the coursers running around you can literally control what they draw.
Archetype of Imagination and Phenax are both horrible. Nether of them is even worth bringing up in this topic, but of the 2 I would say Archetype of Imagination to be the better crap card.. I would never play either of them, but at least Archetype could have a use and comes as a body. Phenax is straight up bad with no exceptions. You'll never make it to the point in the game where it becomes a grind if you use horrible cards like this, so the situation you are offering it to won't exist outside of playing against another deck that is equally badly built.
I am almost willing to say that Chord of Calling is a dud in this type of deck too. Why would you ever want to be searching your library for something when your goal is to have that something in the GY to whip back? Whip > Chord. Also, if you are claiming to be running a Chord tool box then you need good utility creatures to be chording for, of which I see none of in these lists main. This deck will need to be streamlined if it wants to go toe to toe with the big baddie midrange decks, or be able to get ground of the tempo decks, not stuffed filled with cute concepts that bloat the core of the deck.
Far and above the worst Jace to date. To start I would:
-change the + to either target player or forbidden alchemy.
- change the - to boomerang.
- Change the ultimate to something that has a chance of winning the game instead of Elixir of Blue Twist.
i don't think memory lapse read the whole article. it seems like he stopped at the Utter-Leyton quote.
No I read the whole thing, you just don't like the conclusions drawn. I'm sorry the strat isn't as good as everyone thought it was going to be (me included) but face facts: its not good enough. Notice how all of the teams didn't even bother playtesting it? Do you think that is a coincidence that a whole bunch of separate groups of professional MTG players all came to the same conclusion?
Hey whatever. I am happy to have you guys play as much of this deck as you like. Here is why.
I don't really understand this post? First you speak of 'facts' then you go on to say how the pros didn't even spend any time testing the deck. From this the only fact I see is that the deck wasn't tested, and thus can not be assumed to be bad or good.
Another thing being that, assuming since the pros didn't test the deck, they think it is bad is a flawed logic. Please see the release of Jace TMS, and preordaine for examples of how no/limited testing of X by pros that say X is bad can be drastically wrong.
Is there anyway this deck can beat all the aggro decks? I mean.. Honestly, with black being the 'best' color to go to from blue now, our 1 mana removal just doesn't kill any of the creatures in the aggro decks.. So we start out on the back foot in every game. The only spell we have that kills these things T1 is Dismember for 4 life.. Where as with red we have many options to take them down. Also, since Bitterblossom doesn't do anything until turn 3 upkeep I'm having a hard time dropping it on turn 2 and then having my face smashed in by hordes of 3/x's.
Hello everyone. Lately I have been testing a few different versions of Faeries. The one I like most has taken me to one 3-1 finish in a modern daily, but I am still working on the numbers and card selection. This is the deck list I was using:
My MU for the daily were Tron (win), Br Burn (win), UWR Midrange (win), mono white angels (lose). The three wins were tight games, having to race each deck to 20. The easiest of the MU was Tron, and the hardest UWR. The Mono white MU wasn't hard per say, with the deck having produced 4 of the life gain lands in our game 3. Other then that I would have been able to race that deck. The problem I had with UWR was that their creatures are all super value and Resto Angel is the best white faerie ever printed.
After the daily I found myself on this version of the deck:
26 land + 1 key is fine. A lot of lists are 25 lands 2 keys. Don't forget that pack rat has a use for all those extra lands in hand. Not that I support this list. What I do support though is AtL, as it rocks mono black and is good in the control mirror. If you are expecting a fair deal of control mirrors then AtL is more then fine in the main.
I have been doing a lot of play testing the past week, praticing for a Black Lotus tourney next week. I have to say that I have been very dissapointed in two cards in my 75, and they would be Reckoner and Keyruin. Most of the time they both fight to be dropped in the same turn and only reckoner is of use that turn. Generally reckoners ability is lack luster. Ive been thinking about replacing these 5 slots in my deck with 1 land, 2 Magma Jet, and 2 unknown. Since there is so much MBD right now I was thinking about playing a 2 of AtL in the main.
I am also playing a fair amount of burn for reach, totalling in at 10 burn spells. I'll post my list when I have some time, as I am currently at work.
I agree, they do different things. One does something, where the other in a 5 mana time walk you cast on yourself. Very different.
Archetype of Imagination and Phenax are both horrible. Nether of them is even worth bringing up in this topic, but of the 2 I would say Archetype of Imagination to be the better crap card.. I would never play either of them, but at least Archetype could have a use and comes as a body. Phenax is straight up bad with no exceptions. You'll never make it to the point in the game where it becomes a grind if you use horrible cards like this, so the situation you are offering it to won't exist outside of playing against another deck that is equally badly built.
I am almost willing to say that Chord of Calling is a dud in this type of deck too. Why would you ever want to be searching your library for something when your goal is to have that something in the GY to whip back? Whip > Chord. Also, if you are claiming to be running a Chord tool box then you need good utility creatures to be chording for, of which I see none of in these lists main. This deck will need to be streamlined if it wants to go toe to toe with the big baddie midrange decks, or be able to get ground of the tempo decks, not stuffed filled with cute concepts that bloat the core of the deck.
WORST Jace by far.
-change the + to either target player or forbidden alchemy.
- change the - to boomerang.
- Change the ultimate to something that has a chance of winning the game instead of Elixir of Blue Twist.
I don't really understand this post? First you speak of 'facts' then you go on to say how the pros didn't even spend any time testing the deck. From this the only fact I see is that the deck wasn't tested, and thus can not be assumed to be bad or good.
Another thing being that, assuming since the pros didn't test the deck, they think it is bad is a flawed logic. Please see the release of Jace TMS, and preordaine for examples of how no/limited testing of X by pros that say X is bad can be drastically wrong.
3 Faerie Impostor
4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Phantasmal Image
3 Vendilion Clique
4 Scion of Oona
4 Mistbind Clique
Artifacts
4 Æther Vial
3 Vapor Snag
4 Remand
3 Cryptic Command
Lands
2 Faerie Conclave
4 Mutavault
2 Cavern of Souls
3 Tectonic Edge
13 Island
1 Vapor Snag
2 Dismember
2 Spell Pierce
2 Threads of Disloyalty
4 Spreading Seas
1 Cryptic Command
3 Spellskite
My MU for the daily were Tron (win), Br Burn (win), UWR Midrange (win), mono white angels (lose). The three wins were tight games, having to race each deck to 20. The easiest of the MU was Tron, and the hardest UWR. The Mono white MU wasn't hard per say, with the deck having produced 4 of the life gain lands in our game 3. Other then that I would have been able to race that deck. The problem I had with UWR was that their creatures are all super value and Resto Angel is the best white faerie ever printed.
After the daily I found myself on this version of the deck:
2 Faerie Impostor
4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Phantasmal Image
3 Vendilion Clique
4 Scion of Oona
3 Pestermite
3 Mistbind Clique
Artifacts
4 Æther Vial
3 Vapor Snag
4 Remand
3 Cryptic Command
Lands
2 Faerie Conclave
4 Mutavault
1 Cavern of Souls
3 Tectonic Edge
13 Island
1 Dispel
3 Relic of Progenitus
4 Spreading Seas
1 Cryptic Command
3 Spellskite
1 Threads of Disloyalty
2 Dismember