I keep seeing people mention various staples such as Bob, but isn't the card range from Alara block until present, barring Lorwyn/Mirrodin/Ravnica? Unless I read that wrong.
Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas. I had a lot of fun and frustration trying to make this deck work in standard, but I played the hell out of it. You can throw Wurmcoil, Batterskull, Solemn and may of the artifact cards that made this deck fun.
I have been running Darksteel Citadel as a 4 of, I have seen lists running Mishra's Factory. I have nothing more than getting wasted out. Is there enough advantages to run the factories over the Citadels? Most of our combo pieces are 3 mana so T1 Citadel go, is better than throwing Ancient Tomb, City Of Traitors pass. Maybe run more Crucibles MD I don't know.
If anyone has experience with this I would appreciate it.
I agree in that while it is tempting to get a turn one grim monolith/metalworker down, I often see a wasteland played right off the bat and then I am left with no mana especially if the worker is countered. I would say that if they mulligan their opening hand, it might be safer to play a turn one Traitors or Tomb as they may be reluctant to getting rid of their own resources while already being down cards but I guess it depends on what they are playing of course.
Just to brew up some discussion. I haven't seen any lists run it, but with enough noncreature artifacts maybe Karn, Silver Golem could find a home. Or maybe I just wanna find some reason to use my FTV copy just sitting there.
I've been thinking about that myself. I think a list with him needs Thran Dynamo in there along with Monolith's.
I recently picked this deck up and started testing it due to wanting to know more about more matchups and the best way to understand a deck is to test it. Honestly this is one of the funnest decks I've played so far in legacy, so I have started building it(missing only like 9 cards still) and I can't wait to play it.
This deck is a lot of fun but ya there is a high variance to it because if Metalworker gets killed you can be left with some awkward hands. I'm trying to streamline the deck more by cutting a lot of the one-of threats besides Blightsteel Colossus andSundering Titan. Titan is bonkers against greedy manabases and this deck after SB surprisingly has good matchups against blue. I play Goblin Welder because of all of the counters and discard making those cards less effective. Plus having access to Blood Moon is nice. I'd definitely run Wasteland/Crucible combo as I feel that is all that is missing from my version. Definitely run more than one top if you can. This deck lacks card draw so more consistency is needed to make it tier one. But when you win, you are usually crushing an unprepared opponent.
Does sacrificing the Jar at the end of the opens turn work anymore? Or do you just screw yourself before you get to untap? I know that you used to be able to do that.
If you thought Necropotence was bad, you thought Stasis was bad as well.
I have no qualms about admitting I was a pretty terrible player and uninformed on a lot of what Magic was all about. I just wanted to stick Force of Nature in play and hated blue. Oh how much things have changed. That being said the were a few people playing Stasis so I realized that was a good card.
When I first saw Necropotence, I thought it was a terrible card. I really had no concept of how Magic should and could work. Everyone saw the "skip your draw step" and scoffed. I think that card takes the cake and it is really hard to find that nowadays because of the amount of coverage and testing the game gets. Not to mention all of the Pros who discuss cards and look for this kind of thing.
I have to say I'm excited about how powerful the set looks and people need to realize that every block changes the standard landscape. Titans have really ruined our perception of what a creature's top-end scale should be in terms of power and cost. The creatures coming out at top-end seem to indicate the format is slowing down and I am way in favor of that. There are still going to be very good two to four drop creatures so I would give this set a chance first before you disregard it as a disappointment.
This was my Legacy list I took to the SCG Open in Portland and finished 57th after ID'ing last round with a friend to guarantee top 64. After playing for fun, I crushed Show and Tell (Eureka version) so I would have went 4-2-1 instead of 3-2-2. Not the greatest record but I drew extremely poorly and didn't properly mulligan against Aluren. I also lost to UW stoneblade getting mana screwed game two and also drew a match against another Stoneblade deck. As you can see by the results, it was a very diverse field and was a lot of fun. Despite the turnout (bad scheduling because school just started for most) our town definitely displayed that Magic can be very diverse. Even the Standard portion top 8 were all different decks minus delver. Regardless, here is my build and what I would do a little different next time and what I liked about the deck.
So I'll get some of the odd choices out of the way because I know there will be some questions regarding some of the cards:
First up, Scroll Rack: I included this card because I wanted to have another way to put Blightsteel Colossus back into the deck if I had it in my hand. Yes, other than Kuldotha Forgemaster, there is no other way to shuffle cards after putting cards back into the deck. I figured also that this card would dig deeper but on the only instance where I got this card out, I only had one card in hand so a second Sensei's Divining Top would have been better in this slot and I will be making the change. Trading Post serves the purpose of discarding Blightsteel Colossus and getting a shuffle and Post did some work for me so that card stays.
Myr Battlesphere: Goblin Welder is a horse and being able to sac tokens instead of relevant artifacts is huge and in fact it came in handy to winning one of my matches against Lands. I personally wouldn't use Myr Battlesphere unless you are running the Welder version since you can switch him out back and forth getting multiple tokens when he enters.
Spellskite main: I thought this card would have a bigger impact since he would protect my 3 most important creatures in the deck in Metalworker, Kuldotha Forgemaster, and Blightsteel Colussus. You could argue Lodestone Golem here as well. But I almost never got him out and this deck is more of a "win as fast as possible" type of deck. I think he only entered play once and I had no other creatures in play. He'll probably stay for now but he may make it back into the SB but since every deck minus some combo decks, have removal, I like him main.
Why Phyrexian Metamorph over Duplicant: The short answer is I don't have one, but since I know that won't cut it, I will say that I will be making that change since Phyrexian Metamorph wasn't impressive except on one play on turns that one me a game and match against Lands. Metamorph has it's uses and may stay in the deck and Duplicant will be making his way to the SB for the Show and Tell matchup.
Why no Wasteland?: I don't have these either but in reality, with Blood Moon, while not always in play, makes more sense in this deck. I'm short on lands as it is and having a card that sac's itself, makes it hard to rely on having enough mana to make this deck work. A lot of MUD lists run 20 lands and 2 to 4 Mox Opal's and I only use 2 Lotus Petal's so I need the lands to be there for mana. Which brings me to my next card:
Lotus Petal over Mox Opal? I could justify adding an Opal to the deck but I was worried about having it in hand early and not enough artifacts in play believe it or not. And in fact, when I'd have Lotus Petal in hand to fuel a first turn Metalworker, I wouldn't have been able to use the Opal to do so. For me, that was the biggest reason for Petal's over Opal.
Wurmcoil Engine: Of all the cards to disappoint me, it was definitely this one. I am considering cutting this to 1 over 3 and picking up Crucible of Worldsx2 in place of the 2 I'd cut. Simply, I never faced Goblins or Burn so he is really only relevant in swarm matchups so having 3 is overkill and against most decks running white, if you don't have Goblin Welder in play or Kuldotha Forgemaster, this card is getting RFG'ed. I think one, maybe two copies is all you need and maybe add one Batterskull in it's place.
As for lands, Crystal Vein and Buried Ruin can be options here to add as I'd always like to have a 2 mana land in play and Buried Ruin can get back your artifacts if Trading Post is not in play.
Sideboard: I really like Defense Grid against Blue decks and also against Swords to Plowshares. That and Trinisphere really paid off for me. Phyrexian Revoker is a nice, aggressive card to change the pace of the deck and can shut down Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Knight of the Reliquary, Qasali Pridemage, etc. In the Legacy challenge the night before, I faced off against Mono-Red Burn and Platinum Emperion saved my arse big time. Steel Hellkite didn't do much as he is kinda clunky and I knew that so unlike most lists running two, I just have one to tutor out if need be against the aggro matchup. Blood Moon won me the lands matchup for obvious reasons and I really like it against any 3 color deck in particular or decks relying heavily on duals. Similar philosophy as Wasteland. Never saw Dredge so Tormod's Crypt only came in against UW Stoneblade to try to stop the Snapcaster Mage shenanigans.
Highlights of the night: In 3 games I turn two'd Blightsteel Colossus with haste off of a first or second turn Metalworker. Two of them came against combo Elves and thank God, because he combo'd me on turn two in game 2. So my recommendation for that matchup is to go off faster than that deck does. Absolutely mulligan aggressively in that matchup.
My favorite moment came against Lands when in game 3 we went to turns and on turn 3, then 5, I top-decked the two cards I need to win. I first pulled Lightning Greaves and intentionally countered it with Chalice of the Void set for 2 so I could Goblin Welder it into play. Chalice was at 2 to stop Life From the Loam. Then, I top-decked Kuldotha Forgemaster on turn 5 to get him into play with haste, played another artifact from my hand (Phyrexian Metamorph) copying Forgemaster so I could sac 3 artifacts and get Blightsteel Colossus into play with haste to win it. I Karn Liberated his Maze of Ith away so he couldn't stop it.
My other matches were: U/W Stoneblade twice, in which I drew against one then lost the other. Aluren, in which I got smoked. Enchantress, in which I won on turn two in game 3. Stony Silence sucks btw Show and Tell, after ID'ing this one I won handily after getting multiple Defense Grid's out and when he could cast Show and Tell, I promptly laid down a Wurmcoil Engine to his Angel of Despair and as he laughed as he had to kill my Coil with Welder in Play, you could see what happened after that
For people who play the game rather than just collect for value Ravnica was a huge success (even if Nivmizzet and Dual lands were the only money cards.) For Wizards Ravnica was a great monetary success. Return to Ravnica will be a great success in both ways again. Probably even better with the new Planeswalkers.
There was also Dark Confidant and Life From the Loam. They fixed the one problem old Rav had and that is give all the Guilds equal treatment by splitting all 10 in the first two sets. I think based on just the third of the set I've seen, this is going to be a fantastic set.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/blog.php?b=9212
Ya it is up until Alara from Mirrodin forward.
I agree in that while it is tempting to get a turn one grim monolith/metalworker down, I often see a wasteland played right off the bat and then I am left with no mana especially if the worker is countered. I would say that if they mulligan their opening hand, it might be safer to play a turn one Traitors or Tomb as they may be reluctant to getting rid of their own resources while already being down cards but I guess it depends on what they are playing of course.
I've been thinking about that myself. I think a list with him needs Thran Dynamo in there along with Monolith's.
This deck is a lot of fun but ya there is a high variance to it because if Metalworker gets killed you can be left with some awkward hands. I'm trying to streamline the deck more by cutting a lot of the one-of threats besides Blightsteel Colossus andSundering Titan. Titan is bonkers against greedy manabases and this deck after SB surprisingly has good matchups against blue. I play Goblin Welder because of all of the counters and discard making those cards less effective. Plus having access to Blood Moon is nice. I'd definitely run Wasteland/Crucible combo as I feel that is all that is missing from my version. Definitely run more than one top if you can. This deck lacks card draw so more consistency is needed to make it tier one. But when you win, you are usually crushing an unprepared opponent.
I suppose it was a moot point since I just needed the haste mostly.
Sweet, thanks.
I have no qualms about admitting I was a pretty terrible player and uninformed on a lot of what Magic was all about. I just wanted to stick Force of Nature in play and hated blue. Oh how much things have changed. That being said the were a few people playing Stasis so I realized that was a good card.
4 Metalworker
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
4 Goblin Welder
3 Lodestone Golem
3 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Spellskite
1 Sundering Titan
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
Non-Creature Artifacts: 17
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Grim Monolith
2 Lotus Petal
2 Lightning Greaves
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Scroll Rack
1 Trading Post
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Staff of Domination
1 Karn Liberated
Land: 18
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Great Furnace
2 Darksteel Citadel
2 Mountain
2 Cavern of Souls
3 Trinisphere
3 Defense Grid
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Blood Moon
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Steel Hellkite
So I'll get some of the odd choices out of the way because I know there will be some questions regarding some of the cards:
First up, Scroll Rack: I included this card because I wanted to have another way to put Blightsteel Colossus back into the deck if I had it in my hand. Yes, other than Kuldotha Forgemaster, there is no other way to shuffle cards after putting cards back into the deck. I figured also that this card would dig deeper but on the only instance where I got this card out, I only had one card in hand so a second Sensei's Divining Top would have been better in this slot and I will be making the change. Trading Post serves the purpose of discarding Blightsteel Colossus and getting a shuffle and Post did some work for me so that card stays.
Myr Battlesphere: Goblin Welder is a horse and being able to sac tokens instead of relevant artifacts is huge and in fact it came in handy to winning one of my matches against Lands. I personally wouldn't use Myr Battlesphere unless you are running the Welder version since you can switch him out back and forth getting multiple tokens when he enters.
Spellskite main: I thought this card would have a bigger impact since he would protect my 3 most important creatures in the deck in Metalworker, Kuldotha Forgemaster, and Blightsteel Colussus. You could argue Lodestone Golem here as well. But I almost never got him out and this deck is more of a "win as fast as possible" type of deck. I think he only entered play once and I had no other creatures in play. He'll probably stay for now but he may make it back into the SB but since every deck minus some combo decks, have removal, I like him main.
Why Phyrexian Metamorph over Duplicant: The short answer is I don't have one, but since I know that won't cut it, I will say that I will be making that change since Phyrexian Metamorph wasn't impressive except on one play on turns that one me a game and match against Lands. Metamorph has it's uses and may stay in the deck and Duplicant will be making his way to the SB for the Show and Tell matchup.
Why no Wasteland?: I don't have these either but in reality, with Blood Moon, while not always in play, makes more sense in this deck. I'm short on lands as it is and having a card that sac's itself, makes it hard to rely on having enough mana to make this deck work. A lot of MUD lists run 20 lands and 2 to 4 Mox Opal's and I only use 2 Lotus Petal's so I need the lands to be there for mana. Which brings me to my next card:
Lotus Petal over Mox Opal? I could justify adding an Opal to the deck but I was worried about having it in hand early and not enough artifacts in play believe it or not. And in fact, when I'd have Lotus Petal in hand to fuel a first turn Metalworker, I wouldn't have been able to use the Opal to do so. For me, that was the biggest reason for Petal's over Opal.
Wurmcoil Engine: Of all the cards to disappoint me, it was definitely this one. I am considering cutting this to 1 over 3 and picking up Crucible of Worldsx2 in place of the 2 I'd cut. Simply, I never faced Goblins or Burn so he is really only relevant in swarm matchups so having 3 is overkill and against most decks running white, if you don't have Goblin Welder in play or Kuldotha Forgemaster, this card is getting RFG'ed. I think one, maybe two copies is all you need and maybe add one Batterskull in it's place.
As for lands, Crystal Vein and Buried Ruin can be options here to add as I'd always like to have a 2 mana land in play and Buried Ruin can get back your artifacts if Trading Post is not in play.
Sideboard: I really like Defense Grid against Blue decks and also against Swords to Plowshares. That and Trinisphere really paid off for me. Phyrexian Revoker is a nice, aggressive card to change the pace of the deck and can shut down Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Knight of the Reliquary, Qasali Pridemage, etc. In the Legacy challenge the night before, I faced off against Mono-Red Burn and Platinum Emperion saved my arse big time. Steel Hellkite didn't do much as he is kinda clunky and I knew that so unlike most lists running two, I just have one to tutor out if need be against the aggro matchup. Blood Moon won me the lands matchup for obvious reasons and I really like it against any 3 color deck in particular or decks relying heavily on duals. Similar philosophy as Wasteland. Never saw Dredge so Tormod's Crypt only came in against UW Stoneblade to try to stop the Snapcaster Mage shenanigans.
Highlights of the night: In 3 games I turn two'd Blightsteel Colossus with haste off of a first or second turn Metalworker. Two of them came against combo Elves and thank God, because he combo'd me on turn two in game 2. So my recommendation for that matchup is to go off faster than that deck does. Absolutely mulligan aggressively in that matchup.
My favorite moment came against Lands when in game 3 we went to turns and on turn 3, then 5, I top-decked the two cards I need to win. I first pulled Lightning Greaves and intentionally countered it with Chalice of the Void set for 2 so I could Goblin Welder it into play. Chalice was at 2 to stop Life From the Loam. Then, I top-decked Kuldotha Forgemaster on turn 5 to get him into play with haste, played another artifact from my hand (Phyrexian Metamorph) copying Forgemaster so I could sac 3 artifacts and get Blightsteel Colossus into play with haste to win it. I Karn Liberated his Maze of Ith away so he couldn't stop it.
My other matches were: U/W Stoneblade twice, in which I drew against one then lost the other. Aluren, in which I got smoked. Enchantress, in which I won on turn two in game 3. Stony Silence sucks btw
There was also Dark Confidant and Life From the Loam. They fixed the one problem old Rav had and that is give all the Guilds equal treatment by splitting all 10 in the first two sets. I think based on just the third of the set I've seen, this is going to be a fantastic set.