Hi guys. Quick question. Preparing my deck for tomorrow (GP Brisbane): do you think it is too crazy to run just 1 Sphinx's Rev and 3 Snapcasters? Or is is 2 mandatory?
Thanks for the reply and explaining. I have been enjoying the Esper deck very much and have made a couple of 4-1 s and 3-2 in the competitive MTGO leagues.
I realize now I may have been running a 'weak' sb, in the sense that I do not have a "robust" symmetry breaker for the control matchup (say an elspeth). I have also been considering running a couple of Ashioks in the sb, but I think they may be to narrow a sb card? I prefer to run sb cards that are flexible (unless the match is so horribly bad that I need a silverbullet to even have a chance).
A couple of cards I have thinkign about:
+ Disallow. What do you guys think? I have been running 2 negate MD and 1 SB, but perhaps one of those could be changed by a disallow? I chance to also combat activated/triggered abilities (cast triggers, Nahiri ultimates, etc.) seems very relevant in certain matchups. Again, IMO flexibility is king. Has anyone tested it? I play it my standard esper deck and it does a lot of work...of course standard is a different environment but..
+ Curse of Death's hold. It is pretty good vs many decks I think. Stops lingering souls, opposing Secure tokens, snap casters, infect, etc. It seems the mana base should be able to sustain it now that lists are increasing the B sources for fatal push. Or is it not worth it in your experience?
So I got into modern about a month ago. I initially built Abzan. It felt powerful but it is really not my style of play AND I did not like feeling in so much of a disadvantage vs. tron decks. Two weeks ago, with the surge of fatal push I decided to give Esper a try. I based my list on one that did well in the first 'bigish' tournament post AER (very similar to pizz0wn3d's one but with 2 sb thoughtseize) in terms of wincons and counter numbers. So far I am very happy with the deck, and and mostly fixed in the basic sb spots (runed halo [what a card!..so much flexibility], stony silence,..)
I have been learning how to play many of the common matchups (at least those that show more often on MTGO 2-man queues), but obviously I have a way to go. I have been reading the forum to try and learn about them. Learning how to play different matchups makes a lot of difference.
My question to you guys is, what is the main difference (in terms of meta matchups) between Esper and Jeskai? Clearly Esper Charm is great and the main reason for the black addition. I have been really impressed by it. The Fatal push gives the possibility of running 7 1CC mana removal spells which is IMO just awesome.
On the other hand I have been also exploring other threads. I have been also on the UW thread reading a lot, but without direct experience with the deck seems hard to really understand the details of many situations. They seem to run a couple of more creatures, which give them more tricks and a faster (although possibly more vulnerable) wincons, but it is at heart I think a draw-go deck also. What is in your opinion of the main difference pros/cons between the two decks?
I am sorry if this is a bit off topic, but I really want to get some word of advice from you guys. I am going to GP Brisbane in a couple of weeks and would like to be as prepared as possible and, obviously, pick the more consistent deck. Does any one have experience with both decks and wouldn't mind sharing his opinion? Thanks in advance.
Revolutionary rebuff is also a possibility ..same mana cost but can counter Gideons, counterspells, etc. True that late game it can s bad.. but there is no CounterSpell so we have to work with what we have =)
Man..so sad to hear that. It seems you had you dose of bad luck with the mana screws/floods...but that is no excuse =(
I have updated the list (last post) after testing online vs Saheeli and pals.
It seems that vs. BG the fatal pushes are VERY relevant no ? Perhaps a 4 of is good? I think we should also take a page from J.Davies and increase the number of murders. Basically, I think we can 1 for 1 BG until we drop a Gearhulk, it does not seem they have a lot of CA engines besides the Tracker and Flayer. What do you think ?
Overall, do you suggest any specific changes to the list? I am looking for the cards on MTGO and will start testing tonight also there.
Not sure where I would put the other Lili in the MD tbh. It makes sense to have two if one is running Kalitas and Gearhulk, but I am not certain what would I remove. Perhaps -1 Y's expertise (which goes to the sb)?
I like Glimmer a lot, although I can see the appeal of the Fortune's favor. I would have to test it to be able to say something concrete. My gut feeling is that Glimmer is better as it lets you "choose", i.e., there is some degree of certainty, while there is an extra factor of randomness in the F's F.
If it is the control (jeskai) version, then I mostly drop some of the conditional removal and put in discard, lost legacy, and counters. I try to become more counter/discard heavy in that matchup. The Same is true vs other control decks
I have not tested the more agggro variant (the 4C one) of the Saheeli deck so, unfortunately, I cannot give much advice there. I would treat it as a good stuff aggro deck (such as UW flash in the last season)...but play carefully around the combo. I would go -1 Lili. -1 sorin, -1 push, + 1 Anguished unmaking, +1 Gearhulk +1 grasp. Also negate may not be that hot as they do have a lot of creatures, perhaps bring in a couple of transgress the mind ? Beware of the planeswalkers they run.
@ Battle for the bridge. That card sounds nice as a 1 of, the life gain can be pretty significant. I wonder if a Sorin would be better in that spot for Esper color though.
Well I came second in the win-a-box..the deck worked quite well..although some changes do have to be made.
I tried using "enough" the W sources to fit the fumigates, but it was not worth it. I actually never needed them, and spot removal would have been better. I had some issues with blue mana. My list is as in
I went 3-1-1 in the Swiss, loosing to bant midrange, winning vs Grixis control (twice!) and vs GB counters, and IDing with GW tokens. In the top 8 I won vs the bant deck I lost to in the Swiss, but lost in the final vs. an interesting Jund energy aggro deck.
Moving forward, I will increase the number of Sorins in the MD..dealing with PWs is superimportant IMO, and remove the fumigates. Essentially I will just splash for 2 Sorins and the Anguished unmakings.
Anyone else played during the weekend ? There is a PPTQ next weekend so will tweak the list a bit..improve the mana base, etc. Suggestions are ovbiously welcomed. Cheers
I won vs RG energy, mono W beginner deck, and Bant tokens. My loss was to zombies, I did not expect to face any and, of course, I was wrong. Game 1 took for ever and game 2 did not even start. In retrospective I should have conceded g1 and go to the sb as soon as possible (after sb I should have a decent game). The 4-0 were the zombies deck and a bant midrange deck. There was a cat combo in 3-1, but lost to the bant deck's counter spells. My opinion of the combo deck is that it is good, but can be hated out fairly easily and not a problem with some careful play.
I feel the deck is pretty versatile as it is. A few highlihgts:
+ The deadlock traps were great in the Bant tokens matchup. Tying up their few threats until I landed the removal was awesome. Notably, I lived the dream of wiping the board and killing a Gideon in turn 4 with a Y's Expertise into anguished unmaking... Good times!
+ Disallow is the real deal...sooo good!!! Flexibility again is the key word.
+ The mana base worked pretty well so I am happy with that.
I will play the same list on the Win a box on Sunday, so fingers crossed! How did FNM go for you guys ?
Hi guys, So I have been playing several variants of the BG deck (Abzan being my favorite) over the last few weeks. Of course now one has to start thinking of the new meta and the time for exploration begins. I have to say that I am about to jump the gun and go into Bant, as I think will be very powerful with the inclusion of the new Counterspell spirit. Nevertheless I want to give Season's past a try in the new format.
I think the Abzan version gains a few useful cards and so I will try to focus on it. Right now I am happy with my pre EMN ramp-like list. However, my thinking going forward is that we need to go a bit more midrange to avoid too much dependence on the Languish path vs Coco decks packing the new counter spirit MD. Perhaps a package of Gisela, Avacyn, etc. supported by some removal would be better? This would shift the mana base a bit towards a heavier white commitment but I think is doable.
What do you guys think of the chances of the deck in EMN?
IMO Avacyn is worth playing MD as its a flexible card for many matchups. I ultimately decided to keep Kalitas SB and go almost creatureless and up my removal oount. I sort of expect lots of Humans,GW and GBu control, with a side of Bant variants. Fingers crossed that things go well tomorrow =)
Yeah I saw that 5-2 list. It is nice and I imagine the early game is better vs. aggro variants, and the list has early blockers to further protect the T4 Gideon and PWs. Their interaction with Avacyn is also interesting as it becomes relatively easy to flip him. This can be quite useful I think, as the angel becomes another 'controllable' sweeper vs GW, Bant, etc. Will give it a run tonight in a league and see how it feels.
I am still testing the Esper list..but will most likely play BW over the weekend. =)
Thanks for the help
Cheers
Unfortunately this is not my list, so I cannot say what were the matches. It is very similar to what we have been discussing, so that is encouraging.
The inclusion of the Baral is interesting, but I am not sure that the purpose of the Renegade map as it is not even a cantrip.
What is you mother tongue ? Mine is Spanish =)
Cheers
I have been testing mostly modern this week so haven't been able to contribute much. However, just wanted to point out this deck
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/561402#paper
Seems good !
I realize now I may have been running a 'weak' sb, in the sense that I do not have a "robust" symmetry breaker for the control matchup (say an elspeth). I have also been considering running a couple of Ashioks in the sb, but I think they may be to narrow a sb card? I prefer to run sb cards that are flexible (unless the match is so horribly bad that I need a silverbullet to even have a chance).
A couple of cards I have thinkign about:
+ Disallow. What do you guys think? I have been running 2 negate MD and 1 SB, but perhaps one of those could be changed by a disallow? I chance to also combat activated/triggered abilities (cast triggers, Nahiri ultimates, etc.) seems very relevant in certain matchups. Again, IMO flexibility is king. Has anyone tested it? I play it my standard esper deck and it does a lot of work...of course standard is a different environment but..
+ Curse of Death's hold. It is pretty good vs many decks I think. Stops lingering souls, opposing Secure tokens, snap casters, infect, etc. It seems the mana base should be able to sustain it now that lists are increasing the B sources for fatal push. Or is it not worth it in your experience?
Cheers
So I got into modern about a month ago. I initially built Abzan. It felt powerful but it is really not my style of play AND I did not like feeling in so much of a disadvantage vs. tron decks. Two weeks ago, with the surge of fatal push I decided to give Esper a try. I based my list on one that did well in the first 'bigish' tournament post AER (very similar to pizz0wn3d's one but with 2 sb thoughtseize) in terms of wincons and counter numbers. So far I am very happy with the deck, and and mostly fixed in the basic sb spots (runed halo [what a card!..so much flexibility], stony silence,..)
I have been learning how to play many of the common matchups (at least those that show more often on MTGO 2-man queues), but obviously I have a way to go. I have been reading the forum to try and learn about them. Learning how to play different matchups makes a lot of difference.
My question to you guys is, what is the main difference (in terms of meta matchups) between Esper and Jeskai? Clearly Esper Charm is great and the main reason for the black addition. I have been really impressed by it. The Fatal push gives the possibility of running 7 1CC mana removal spells which is IMO just awesome.
On the other hand I have been also exploring other threads. I have been also on the UW thread reading a lot, but without direct experience with the deck seems hard to really understand the details of many situations. They seem to run a couple of more creatures, which give them more tricks and a faster (although possibly more vulnerable) wincons, but it is at heart I think a draw-go deck also. What is in your opinion of the main difference pros/cons between the two decks?
I am sorry if this is a bit off topic, but I really want to get some word of advice from you guys. I am going to GP Brisbane in a couple of weeks and would like to be as prepared as possible and, obviously, pick the more consistent deck. Does any one have experience with both decks and wouldn't mind sharing his opinion? Thanks in advance.
I have updated the list (last post) after testing online vs Saheeli and pals.
It seems that vs. BG the fatal pushes are VERY relevant no ? Perhaps a 4 of is good? I think we should also take a page from J.Davies and increase the number of murders. Basically, I think we can 1 for 1 BG until we drop a Gearhulk, it does not seem they have a lot of CA engines besides the Tracker and Flayer. What do you think ?
Overall, do you suggest any specific changes to the list? I am looking for the cards on MTGO and will start testing tonight also there.
Cheers
Not sure where I would put the other Lili in the MD tbh. It makes sense to have two if one is running Kalitas and Gearhulk, but I am not certain what would I remove. Perhaps -1 Y's expertise (which goes to the sb)?
I like Glimmer a lot, although I can see the appeal of the Fortune's favor. I would have to test it to be able to say something concrete. My gut feeling is that Glimmer is better as it lets you "choose", i.e., there is some degree of certainty, while there is an extra factor of randomness in the F's F.
Vs Saheeli combo, I guess it depends on the list.
If it is the control (jeskai) version, then I mostly drop some of the conditional removal and put in discard, lost legacy, and counters. I try to become more counter/discard heavy in that matchup. The Same is true vs other control decks
I have not tested the more agggro variant (the 4C one) of the Saheeli deck so, unfortunately, I cannot give much advice there. I would treat it as a good stuff aggro deck (such as UW flash in the last season)...but play carefully around the combo. I would go -1 Lili. -1 sorin, -1 push, + 1 Anguished unmaking, +1 Gearhulk +1 grasp. Also negate may not be that hot as they do have a lot of creatures, perhaps bring in a couple of transgress the mind ? Beware of the planeswalkers they run.
@ Battle for the bridge. That card sounds nice as a 1 of, the life gain can be pretty significant. I wonder if a Sorin would be better in that spot for Esper color though.
Good luck and please let me know how it goes.
Cheers
I tried using "enough" the W sources to fit the fumigates, but it was not worth it. I actually never needed them, and spot removal would have been better. I had some issues with blue mana. My list is as in
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/550992#paper
I went 3-1-1 in the Swiss, loosing to bant midrange, winning vs Grixis control (twice!) and vs GB counters, and IDing with GW tokens. In the top 8 I won vs the bant deck I lost to in the Swiss, but lost in the final vs. an interesting Jund energy aggro deck.
Moving forward, I will increase the number of Sorins in the MD..dealing with PWs is superimportant IMO, and remove the fumigates. Essentially I will just splash for 2 Sorins and the Anguished unmakings.
Anyone else played during the weekend ? There is a PPTQ next weekend so will tweak the list a bit..improve the mana base, etc. Suggestions are ovbiously welcomed. Cheers
I won vs RG energy, mono W beginner deck, and Bant tokens. My loss was to zombies, I did not expect to face any and, of course, I was wrong. Game 1 took for ever and game 2 did not even start. In retrospective I should have conceded g1 and go to the sb as soon as possible (after sb I should have a decent game). The 4-0 were the zombies deck and a bant midrange deck. There was a cat combo in 3-1, but lost to the bant deck's counter spells. My opinion of the combo deck is that it is good, but can be hated out fairly easily and not a problem with some careful play.
I feel the deck is pretty versatile as it is. A few highlihgts:
+ The deadlock traps were great in the Bant tokens matchup. Tying up their few threats until I landed the removal was awesome. Notably, I lived the dream of wiping the board and killing a Gideon in turn 4 with a Y's Expertise into anguished unmaking... Good times!
+ Disallow is the real deal...sooo good!!! Flexibility again is the key word.
+ The mana base worked pretty well so I am happy with that.
I will play the same list on the Win a box on Sunday, so fingers crossed! How did FNM go for you guys ?
Cheers
I think the Abzan version gains a few useful cards and so I will try to focus on it. Right now I am happy with my pre EMN ramp-like list. However, my thinking going forward is that we need to go a bit more midrange to avoid too much dependence on the Languish path vs Coco decks packing the new counter spirit MD. Perhaps a package of Gisela, Avacyn, etc. supported by some removal would be better? This would shift the mana base a bit towards a heavier white commitment but I think is doable.
What do you guys think of the chances of the deck in EMN?
Cheers
4 Shambling Vent
4 Forsaken Sanctuary
2 Westvale Abbey
1 Blighted Fen
6 Swamp
2 Plains
2 Battlefield Forge
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Languish
3 Read the Bones
2 Transgress the Mind
4 Grasp of Darkness
3 Anguished Unmaking
2 Ruinous Path
2 Ultimate Price
1 Declaration in Stone
1 Planar Outburst
1 Hallowed Moonlight
2 Archangel Avacyn
2 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
3 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Secure the Wastes
3 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Duress
1 Ultimate Price
1 Transgress the Mind
1 Eldrazi Displacer
1 Linvala, the Preserver
3 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Reality Smasher
IMO Avacyn is worth playing MD as its a flexible card for many matchups. I ultimately decided to keep Kalitas SB and go almost creatureless and up my removal oount. I sort of expect lots of Humans,GW and GBu control, with a side of Bant variants. Fingers crossed that things go well tomorrow =)
Good luck to you all!
Yeah I saw that 5-2 list. It is nice and I imagine the early game is better vs. aggro variants, and the list has early blockers to further protect the T4 Gideon and PWs. Their interaction with Avacyn is also interesting as it becomes relatively easy to flip him. This can be quite useful I think, as the angel becomes another 'controllable' sweeper vs GW, Bant, etc. Will give it a run tonight in a league and see how it feels.
I am still testing the Esper list..but will most likely play BW over the weekend. =)