Of course you play Exp One on the first turn. Question is, which should be the next drop? Should I drop the other Experiment one to have a net gain from evolving two Experiment one if I choose to drop Scooze on the 3rd turn or should I continue with the curve and instead drop Scooze on turn 2?
I used to ran Beast Within as answers to PW and other permanents not reachable by Naturalize-effects when it comes to purely green decks. I think this card may be the only way to answer Tron for a Mono-G deck(well of course it's still possible to splash a little red for the upcoming Crumble to Dust and Ancient Grudge, but forget I said that ). You also have to consider that they are worried against the clock.
I'm seeing lists with Spellskite on MB, others on SB, whilst others prefer to not include it on the 75.
How necessary is Spellskite on board, can someone break down situations when it is relevant?
My list is pretty close to the classic list, so most of the card choice is pretty obvious.
Let's just say that for the Ooze, choice to include it instead of Kalonian Tusker is pretty obvious as lots of decks in nowadays meta are using graveyard. Plus, it makes our dismember be cast for free or nearly free.
For Dungrove, it's a must have as well, as it has hexproof and becomes more and more powerful as the game advance.
And for Collected, I choose to run it, because even if Treetop Village allows us to still have creatures, we still want to be have to advantages of creatures on the board.
Plus, if you have creatures with counters on them, getting an Avatar from a collected is always nice.
For the side, it allows me to have answers to most of the meta, local or global.
If you have any suggestions, please let me know.
No Leatherback Baloth, or did you just miss it on the list? I noticed your list says 25 creatures but you've only listed 21 of them. That'd be an automatic 4-of for certain. I personally find I like 1 more Aspect of Hydra and 1 fewer Scavenging Ooze because having a 7th pump spell makes a surprisingly big difference in terms of how explosively the deck can finish, but it's a balance that has to be tested with your local meta I guess. If you have a lot of graveyard shenanigans going on in there then the 3rd Ooze might be a good idea to keep.
Top 8'd at a GPT yesterday with the following list:
Round 1: UW Tron Game 1: I was on the play and curved out perfectly, pulled out the turn 4 kill before he could even cast Gifts Ungiven.
Sideboard: -2 Dismember, +2 Relic of Progenitus Game 2: I had a crucial Aspect of Hydra countered which left him at 1 life and he boardwiped and then dropped Iona, Shield of Emeria the next turn. Didn't take long for me to drop the game after that. Game 3: I got another turn 4 kill before he could cast Gifts. Game record: 2-1
Match record: 1-0
Round 2: Infect Game 1: Triple Strangleroot Geist and 2 Vines of Vastwood were too much for him to truck through, I took the game down pretty fast.
Sideboard: None Game 2: I mulled to 5 and kept a 1-land hand, never saw a second. Lost pretty fast. Game 3: We both mulled to 5. I couldn't find a second land for a few turns, he took 10+ turns to find a creature with infect, but a Spellskite on his side of the board did so much work. A Thrun, the Last Troll on my side helped to grind things out. Eventually he was at 4 life with 2 creatures on the board and UU up, I had 3 2-power creatures (Thrun had been blocked by a 2/3 infect creature previously). I topdecked a Revenge of the Hunted and cast it for its miracle cost, which he redirected to Spellskite. I then attacked and cast 2 Aspect of Hydra on my unblocked creature, so he would either have to let one of the two stick or pay 2 life to redirect one of them to Spellskite, which locked down the game for me. Game record: 2-1
Match record: 2-0
Round 3: Grixis Twin Game 1: I flooded out hard and lost. I kept a three-land hand and drew four more lands over the ensuing four turns.
Sideboard: +2 Torpor Orb, +2 Autumn's Veil, -1 Dismember, -1 Thrun, the Last Troll, -2 Kalonian Tusker Game 2: I kept a land and a Torpor Orb along with some other nonlands, but didn't see the second land at any point and he comboed out turn 4 again. Game record: 0-2
Match record: 2-1
Round 4: Jund Game 1: He turn 1 Inquisition of Kozileks away my Dryad Militant while on the play, but I draw into an Experiment One on turn 1. I curve out and make the turn 4 kill, the only other spell he has the chance to cast is Olivia Voldaren.
Sideboard: None Game 2: LITERALLY identical to game 1 on both sides. It was actually kind of eerie. Game record: 2-0
Match record: 3-1
Round 5: ID into Top 8 Match record: 3-1-1
Fun fact: my opponents from rounds 2, 3, 4 and 5 were all in the top 8 so my tiebreakers were unreal.
Quarterfinals: Abzan Company Game 1: He's 4th seed and I'm 5th seed so he chooses to be on the play. I bring him to 7 after my 3rd turn, but he drops his infinite life combo and wins on the ensuing turn. I would've had the game if I'd been on the play... Or if I'd had Scavenging Ooze.
Sideboard: +2 Torpor Orb, +2 Relic of Progenitus, -1 Thrun, the Last Troll, -1 Vines of Vastwood, -2 Kalonian Tusker Game 2: I mulled to 5, kept an Orb and a land but never saw the second land. He won on turn 3, which was disgusting. Game record: 0-2
All in all, I feel that the deck performed fairly well. The Torpor Orbs were theoretically useful quite often, they just couldn't intersect with a second land. We don't seem to be all that strong against combo if we stumble at all, but we can totally blow out anything trying to win by traditional means.
Thoughts?
Good take on your sideboard man. Congratulations too. Right now I really think Torpor Orb is one of the underrated card for Modern as it answers the powerful combo decks, and modern is seeing a lot of combo decks as of now. Interesting that neither of RDW nor Affinity made it to top8. Do you even side-in cards against RDW, seeing that your SB focuses against control/blue, triggered abilities, and combo match up.
Yes. It has been discussed and from what I have read, other people are using CoCo over Rancor but some still prefer Rancor. There's actually no final disclosure about the CoCo version of the deck because both would still remain competitive, regardless of which cards are in your deck. It's speed vs mid-late game play anyways. Personally I am running the CoCo version withRancor traded with the spots of 2 Aspect, 1 Vines, and 1 CoCo. Nykthos is a different deck and is not particularly useful especially when you're clogging the table with a bunch of 3/2s 3/3s and 2/1s.
Dungrove Elder isn't necessary for SB, either fit it in as a whole 3-of MB or cut it off the list. If you decide to include it MB, up your land count, you don't want it to sit as a consistent 2/2 or 3/3. I personally prefer Avatar(Reach,Trample) over Kalonian Tusker, but between Garruk's Companion(if you don't have Avatar) and Tusker, I'd prefer the Companion(Avatar of the Resolute) because it makes Aspect of the Hydra deadlier without the help of Rancor. Your sideboard also need more cards against Merfolk/Blue decks, since Affinity is not a concern as you mentioned earlier. My card of choice is still Mistcutter Hydra over Skylasher because I can still use the Hydra against Mono-U tron if the game drags on for too long. If I may ask, why are you using Pithing Needle?
Hello everyone. I've been away for too long so I want to ask, before I contribute in this discussion, is BFZ-related discussion already allowed? I'm ready to break the meta with you all.
Hey guys, I've been interested in the deck and decided a Collected Company version of it. I believe CoCo with Mono-Green Stompy is faster and more resilient compared to elves or pod since this deck does not need to combo at all and CoCo serves either to refill the board at EoT or put more pressure EoT - either way, it perfectly suites this decks playstyle, in my opinion. So here's where I'm at:
Sideboard wise, I'm leaning on for a little splash of W (Loxodon Smiter) against control and discarders, hence I'll be using a full set of Temple Gardens but in no means of changing the whole Stompy mantra.
With my sideboard list, I opted to remove Aspect of Hydra and stayed with Rancor because it can give a lot of creatures that game-ending reach.
Honestly I'm trying to fit in either Mystic Enforcer or Overwhelming Stampede with Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx to serve as ramp but I think the creatures alone can take the game.
if you think you are trying to win by turn Z you'r not doing it right IMO. This deck is about ramping, about being the most mana efficient possible and about ALWAYS having a B plan. Ya sure i win turn 2 sometime but we are not trying to win by turn 4-5-6... there is no rule of thumb. see its a bit like the twin deck. will they play turn 3 pestermite into twin turn 4? NO! if you tapped out to play a 3 drop will they do it? YES!!! i win more game than i can count at turn >10 because some matchup are really grindy. that's why i dont play the Guide. too random in grindy games.
The thing with Twin though is that they have an actual gameplan when they don't combo off. They play efficient creatures and spells and at least interact with you. When our deck isn't going off, it's doing mostly nothing.
Have you actually play tested the deck? If you're "doing nothing" with the deck, that means you're keeping bad hands or simply assuming that the deck wins as one-sided. You don't "combo-off", no, combo-ing off means this play alone:
and that's just the Goldfished hand that the deck is capable of.
Winning with the deck is mostly achieved on turns 3-5 with a titan usually hitting for 8/6 Doublestrike/Haste/Vigilance or a Hivemind of that same turn, then giving your opponent a clock. (Like izzetmage said, "N is whatever turn the other deck kills you plus 1"). Interacting with the opponent? This deck is as fast as an aggro deck, don't compare it to twin or delver.
If you keep the correct hands suited against your opponent and play straightforward without ever thinking whether you'll get disrupted, that might solve your problem of doing nothing.
I'll answer your queries briefly b/c I'm using my phone atm.
1. Not bad at all. it is useful to keep a single SSG on board, you'd want to see it at times when you lack a single mana for a turn 4/5 titan. If you'd replace it, I would suggest a Thragtusk/DL Dromoka or my personal favorite of Trinket Mage.
2. Yes. If you're new to the deck, do read the primer and the links provided by izzetmage. There are links regarding mulligan and sideboard tech.
3. Turns 1-2 ALWAYS go for Ancient Stirrings. As the game goes long, stirrings lose its digging potential. Prioritize Amulet if you don't have it on hand, then Simic Growth Chamber, then Gemstone. If you have either of the 2 of the mentioned cards in hand, don't cast stirrings.
I wrote it so people can see how the deck looked like back when izzetmage and the other guys were discussing it in their previous thread. I don't have breach and emrakul on paper though. I hope someone do test it.
Instead of messing with the main board, I think this idea could go well as a transformed sideboard tech. The fact that it deals with Blood Moon better and Simian Spirit Guide's utility makes it easy in ramping a Breach. A Hideaway'd Emrakul with a Spinerock Knoll is such a game winning drop I want to happen for the lols.
Would Summer Bloom still work main board when you have Through the Breach and hideaways? I'm asking this because to benefit from bloom you either have an Amulet in play and just abuse a single Karoo land 3x to ramp, or at least 3-4 lands in hand to set up the next turn. Playing with Through the Breach and Emrakul forces you to keep hands that should have lesser lands because you're wanting to play a breach turns 3-5, right?
If I am to make this as a transform sideboard then:
In light of GP Singapore, how many Amulet Blooms entered Top 16? ONE.
How many entered top 8? NONE.
That's absurd. Base it from this: they should have banned Tarmogoyf a long time ago due to the amount of decks that consistently win a top-8 finish in their major events. Now even our deck isn't consistent in its own plays, how can you base this in banning a card piece, right? The deck's combo isn't as crazy -broken compared to Eggs that can have good mulls just to see a Second Sunrise. The plays are not as game winning(consistently) for a single turn compared to Storm when Seething Song was a card. The deck isn't also that good when played by a player who can't cope with the oblivious amount of triggers that's on the stack.
So please, let's not base off conclusions just because a pro is crying for a ban. Everyone calm down.
It's decks like Amulet Bloom(and Grishoalbrand!) that makes Modern fun.
You already gave yourself a hint by how your meta looks like and what card the deck needs: Ensnaring Bridge.
Don't base your deck on that R/B list because both decks are not similar at all.
Let me explain Smallpox for your deck. First, the primary goal of the deck is to discard control until you topdeck a Polymorph, and whilst handling on your own with Waste Not and Liliana's Caress(if you choose so), although those two enchanments alone serve as a pseudo-8Rack win-con don't you think?
Secondly, with even a 4-of Polymorph in the deck, the earliest turn you pull-off an Emrakul is turn 4, which by that turn you could've downed your opponents hand to only 3 cards, with pox, you not only down him to 3-cards, but you also hit his land base which is crucial on the first 4 turns. For you however, you could take the game as far as turn 6-10 and and still land an Emrakul. Aggro decks live off on 3-5 lands, and while majority of your spells on 1-2 per turn and your "actual" win-con at 4 lands(assuming you have it on hand early). Moreover, if you have Waste Not online, you don't even have to worry about the mid range because all you have to do is chump-block with your 2/2 Zombies until you cast a Polymorph.
Don't bother running any Bojuka Bog if you're up against a Grishoalbrand.dec. If you watched Bob Huang's deck in Channel Fireball, then you'd notice that the deck needs to goldfish as much as we need it.
I'd rather use Swan Song on either their Goryo's Vengeance or Faithless Lootings than targetting their GY which is pointless because they will go off if they do resolve a Goryo.
Personally, I'd always tutor a Ruric Thar in cases that I'm up a deck that loves to draw their whole library and cast a ton of cards.
2x Experiment One
1x Avatar of the Resolute
1x Aspect of Hydra
2x Forest
1x Scavenging Ooze
Of course you play Exp One on the first turn. Question is, which should be the next drop? Should I drop the other Experiment one to have a net gain from evolving two Experiment one if I choose to drop Scooze on the 3rd turn or should I continue with the curve and instead drop Scooze on turn 2?
How necessary is Spellskite on board, can someone break down situations when it is relevant?
Also, to those playing with Collected Company, is anyone using Talara's Battalion in their list?
Good take on your sideboard man. Congratulations too. Right now I really think Torpor Orb is one of the underrated card for Modern as it answers the powerful combo decks, and modern is seeing a lot of combo decks as of now. Interesting that neither of RDW nor Affinity made it to top8. Do you even side-in cards against RDW, seeing that your SB focuses against control/blue, triggered abilities, and combo match up.
Yes. It has been discussed and from what I have read, other people are using CoCo over Rancor but some still prefer Rancor. There's actually no final disclosure about the CoCo version of the deck because both would still remain competitive, regardless of which cards are in your deck. It's speed vs mid-late game play anyways. Personally I am running the CoCo version with Rancor traded with the spots of 2 Aspect, 1 Vines, and 1 CoCo. Nykthos is a different deck and is not particularly useful especially when you're clogging the table with a bunch of 3/2s 3/3s and 2/1s.
Sideboard wise, I'm leaning on for a little splash of W (Loxodon Smiter) against control and discarders, hence I'll be using a full set of Temple Gardens but in no means of changing the whole Stompy mantra.
4 Experiment one
4 Dryad militant
4 Strangleroot Geist
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Avatar of the Resolute
4 Leatherback Baloth
Spells (15)
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Rancor
4 Collected Company
3 Dismember
15 forest
4 Temple Garden
1 Cavern of Souls
2 treetop village
2 Choke
3 Loxodon Smiter
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
3 Skylasher
2 Reclamation Sage
3 Beast Within
With my sideboard list, I opted to remove Aspect of Hydra and stayed with Rancor because it can give a lot of creatures that game-ending reach.
Honestly I'm trying to fit in either Mystic Enforcer or Overwhelming Stampede with Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx to serve as ramp but I think the creatures alone can take the game.
Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated!
Have you actually play tested the deck? If you're "doing nothing" with the deck, that means you're keeping bad hands or simply assuming that the deck wins as one-sided. You don't "combo-off", no, combo-ing off means this play alone:
Turn 1: SSG > Amulet of Vigor > Summer Bloom > Simic Growth Chamber x3 > Hive Mind > Summoner's Pact
and that's just the Goldfished hand that the deck is capable of.
Winning with the deck is mostly achieved on turns 3-5 with a titan usually hitting for 8/6 Doublestrike/Haste/Vigilance or a Hivemind of that same turn, then giving your opponent a clock. (Like izzetmage said, "N is whatever turn the other deck kills you plus 1"). Interacting with the opponent? This deck is as fast as an aggro deck, don't compare it to twin or delver.
If you keep the correct hands suited against your opponent and play straightforward without ever thinking whether you'll get disrupted, that might solve your problem of doing nothing.
1. Not bad at all. it is useful to keep a single SSG on board, you'd want to see it at times when you lack a single mana for a turn 4/5 titan. If you'd replace it, I would suggest a Thragtusk/DL Dromoka or my personal favorite of Trinket Mage.
2. Yes. If you're new to the deck, do read the primer and the links provided by izzetmage. There are links regarding mulligan and sideboard tech.
3. Turns 1-2 ALWAYS go for Ancient Stirrings. As the game goes long, stirrings lose its digging potential. Prioritize Amulet if you don't have it on hand, then Simic Growth Chamber, then Gemstone. If you have either of the 2 of the mentioned cards in hand, don't cast stirrings.
Oh and regarding the Infinite Obliteration, Leyline of Sanctity works against it. The only hard board state vs Jund is when they do get to drop a consistent Fulminator Mage. My friend even played a singleton Sowing Salt just to "make sure" vs Amulet.
Remands can be Mana Leaks. Get that Tower of Eons out, replace it with a single Spell burst then add more Repeal/Cyclonic Rift. The deck's fuel is a 4-of Thirst for Knowledge and not Fabricate. You already have 3 mages to tutor for artifacts. Sideboard needs to deal with Aggro decks as well. I suggest getting Aetherize, you don't need 3-of Torpor Orb, 1-2 will do, but I'd rather play more counterspells if I am up against twin.
Also, if budget is a concern, Threads of Disloyaltyis a good trade for value to get the above mentioned cards that will make the deck competitive.
For more info, just check the Developing Competitive Thread of Mono-U Tron, just base off your card replacements with their list.
Would Summer Bloom still work main board when you have Through the Breach and hideaways? I'm asking this because to benefit from bloom you either have an Amulet in play and just abuse a single Karoo land 3x to ramp, or at least 3-4 lands in hand to set up the next turn. Playing with Through the Breach and Emrakul forces you to keep hands that should have lesser lands because you're wanting to play a breach turns 3-5, right?
If I am to make this as a transform sideboard then:
1x Mosswort Bridge
4x Through the Breach
3x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2x Firespout
3x Leyline of Sanctity
Replacing 3x Tolarias, 3x Hive Mind, 2x Pact of Negations, and 1 Slaughter Pact; Making the deck look like this:
4 Amulet of Vigor
Creatures
4 Primeval Titan
3 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Instants
4 Through the Breach
4 Summoner's Pact
Legendary Creatures
2 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
Sorceries
3 Serum Visions
3 Ancient Stirrings
4 Summer Bloom
2 Boros Garrison
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Gemstone Mine
1 Khalni Garden
2 Gruul Turf
1 Selesnya Sanctuary
4 Simic Growth Chamber
1 Slayers' Stronghold
1 Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion
1 Mana Confluence
2 Spinerock Knoll
1 Mosswort Bridge
1 Vesuva
1 Forest
1 Radiant Fountain
1 Island
1 Ghost Quarter
I'm not even sure if the counter spells are worth losing or how it fairs against aggro decks.
How many entered top 8? NONE.
That's absurd. Base it from this: they should have banned Tarmogoyf a long time ago due to the amount of decks that consistently win a top-8 finish in their major events. Now even our deck isn't consistent in its own plays, how can you base this in banning a card piece, right? The deck's combo isn't as crazy -broken compared to Eggs that can have good mulls just to see a Second Sunrise. The plays are not as game winning(consistently) for a single turn compared to Storm when Seething Song was a card. The deck isn't also that good when played by a player who can't cope with the oblivious amount of triggers that's on the stack.
So please, let's not base off conclusions just because a pro is crying for a ban. Everyone calm down.
It's decks like Amulet Bloom(and Grishoalbrand!) that makes Modern fun.
Don't base your deck on that R/B list because both decks are not similar at all.
Let me explain Smallpox for your deck. First, the primary goal of the deck is to discard control until you topdeck a Polymorph, and whilst handling on your own with Waste Not and Liliana's Caress(if you choose so), although those two enchanments alone serve as a pseudo-8Rack win-con don't you think?
Secondly, with even a 4-of Polymorph in the deck, the earliest turn you pull-off an Emrakul is turn 4, which by that turn you could've downed your opponents hand to only 3 cards, with pox, you not only down him to 3-cards, but you also hit his land base which is crucial on the first 4 turns. For you however, you could take the game as far as turn 6-10 and and still land an Emrakul. Aggro decks live off on 3-5 lands, and while majority of your spells on 1-2 per turn and your "actual" win-con at 4 lands(assuming you have it on hand early). Moreover, if you have Waste Not online, you don't even have to worry about the mid range because all you have to do is chump-block with your 2/2 Zombies until you cast a Polymorph.
I'd rather use Swan Song on either their Goryo's Vengeance or Faithless Lootings than targetting their GY which is pointless because they will go off if they do resolve a Goryo.
Personally, I'd always tutor a Ruric Thar in cases that I'm up a deck that loves to draw their whole library and cast a ton of cards.