I just got started a month ago because I'm trying to trade up all my excess into 2x Flooded Strand.
I'm noticing it's a receivers market. I comb the send cards area frequently, and see a good trade pop up (I try to send at least 3 cards for at least 350 points), click their name to look over their list then go into my stock to find the cards. I come back in 10 minutes or so, and all their points are gone and the wants empty. This has prob happened 5-7 times just this week.
I added around 500 points worth of cards to my list this morning, and in less than 25 minutes I have people sending me 100 point cards by themselves? I would imagine you lose efficiency sending a 100 point card with a .50 stamp on the envelope!
I'm approaching the 4k mark, and I'm just hoping that when it comes time to put the strands on my wants that I'll get similar results. My average send is 250-350 points (I'm trying to trade up as I mentioned) so it's taking some work to save up points.
So far, I'm pretty happy with the site and community.
I prefer Negate over Mana Leak for the above reasons, and I'm really not keen on running 4/1 split of Titan/Shepherd. If you plan on running Shepherd, a 3/1 split is prob the best option.
Also, Burnished Hart doesn't seem advantageous over Pilgrim's Eye. Doesn't block Plating carrying Thopters or Signal Pests, and is just too mana intensive and slow for my tastes.
Why is Wall of Omens up to around $5.00 shipped tcgplayer low nm?
I just got my playset 3-4 months ago for around $1.50 ea
I don't see any kind of tier 1 or 2 deck using them, and I never thought of it as a great card for commander either.
Goldfish says quite a few Modern decks are using it.
5 Jeskai Twin
4 White Moon
4 Azorius Control
3 UW Titan
2 Kiki Chord
1 WBG
1 WU
Are any of these decks considered Tier 1? Jeskai Twin maybe but it's only 3/20 decks on page 1 of Twin on MTG Top 8. Is Tier 2 demand enough to spike a card 300%? UW Titan hasn't been Tier in a long time (it's already been demoted to dev comp in the forum)
I've played with and played against all of the 2013 and 2014 decks in stock form at one time or another. In fact, most of these decks are all over my playgroup being played stock or very lightly modded.
2013 decks have a weaker manabase and among them Derevi has the best and Marath the worst.
2013 decks have a severe lack of focus on their core themes. 2 decks in 1 as previously mentioned in this thread. They also have more filler cards that you generally would not play in edh (cards such as the Curses or Diviner Spirit)
My experiences have been that the 2014 decks are for the most part stronger than the 2013 decks. Prossh and Oloro come close as their decks have just enough synergy along with the sheer power level of the generals themselves to win games.
If I were to rank all 10 based on overall power 100% stock in both multiplayer and 1 vs 1 vs the other precon decks:
1) Freyalise - Very consistent and very high damage output and a general that has a powerful -2 and reaches ultimate quickly to refill your hand and keep the beats coming. This deck is fast, deadly and doesn't run out of gas if the general is played correctly.
2) Daretti - Has the ability to grind you out in the long game with a 1 card recursion engine along with powerful supporting cards in the deck (wurmcoil, caged sun). So many cool cards and lots of value to be found here.
3) Prossh - Prossh kills people dead by itself. The card is just ridiculous in power level in a precon deck format and the deck has just enough support to make him hard to keep in check. Prossh is that good and a couple of the cards in the precon help him shine.
4) Ob Nixilis - The deck contains some really good black cards and the commander can take over board states by itself with an army of 5/5 flyers if left unchecked. Great selection of demons and mono black staples.
5) Oloro - Pretty good card selection to support the lifegain theme and Oloro is really good, most of all if you cast him and abuse his ability. This deck isn't as fractured between the three generals as the other C13 decks.
6) Nahiri - This deck has a nice Angel and Board wipe selection, but the lack of quality equipment and equipment tutors and the sluggish speed of the deck really set it back. It's just way too slow... although assembling voltron can be a lot of fun.
7) Teferi - The untap ability is really strong. You ramp into some huge bombs and Cyclonic Rift and Rite of Replication are just broken, but aside from that the deck is kind of weird and has a lot of dumb beaters, which green does so much better and feels wrong in blue.
8) Derevi - This deck lacks enough wincons. Plain and simple you just don't have enough ways to close out a game and Derevi is just too small to get there by herself. The high point is if you like having a lot to do Derevi provides that aplenty in the precon deck.
9) Jeleva - The deck being split to support Nekusar and Jeleva doesn't make it consistent enough for Jeleva to win a lot of games. You whiff and/or just make people angry. Sometimes you get lucky and hit game breaking stuff which gets wins, but they feel cheap.
10) Marath - The manabase is just awful, and the deck is slow as molasses with all the huge beaters. Marath is really strong but the deck just stinks aside from a few cool singles. The weak manabase really kills this deck out of the box, and is the first place to upgrade.
Just my opinion, of course. I hope this is helpful. I would buy Freyalise, Daretti, Ob Nixilis, Prossh, Oloro, and Teferi/Nahiri
I was thinking to buy this new 2015 set because seems balanced, but it looks like that 2013 set has an higher power level overall. I dislike the idea of monocolored commander so, at the moment, i'm not considering to buy 2014 set, but you are free to let me change my mind
Keep in mind the manabases of the 2014 decks are solid out of the box. You may run into a few challenges with some of the 2013 decks (Nature of the Beast most of all)
I've played with or against all of the 2013 and 2014 decks. I prefer the 2014 decks because I feel the deck contents are higher quality and manabases stable. The 2013 generals are pretty sick though. The 2013 decks definitely have more chaff cards in my opinion (like the curses)
I've seen two of the 2015 decks in action (BG and UG) and they seem really fun to play stock. The lists looks solid as well.
If you plan to play them stock and against each other, I would get the 2014 set of 5 or the 2015 set of 5.
So the new players would have to wait a month or two before they could maybe get their hands on it, likely at higher than MSRP?
What's the difference between waiting a month or two and waiting for the next Modern Masters release like you keep suggesting? Higher than MSRP? Did you read my previous response?
Also of note, they actually avoid putting expensive lands in new player centric products, because new players do not get why they are good. So the inclusion of fetches in Commander decks would not be for new players anyways. Why are you so insistent that Commander needs to hold Modern staples anyways?
Sure, I can agree with the reasoning here. I'm not being insistent, just stating my opinion that it was a missed opportunity to drop the prices on fetches. Commander releases are new player centric, but not their sole target with the product.
Modern Masters is the Modern Reprint product. If you think that the price is too high, oh well. You are asking them to put $80 cards in $35 products. This is nothing like True Name Nemesis. An expensive land that goes in basically any deck you feel like is not the same as an okay blue three drop.
Price is the problem. But I'm saying it's better to have an $30-$80 card (not all enemy fetches are 80) guaranteed in a $35 product than in a product that is $12 for just a small chance at getting the card you need. TNN is an ok three drop? Right now it's in 15% of top 8 decks (mtg top 8) and during the time it was a 4 of in more decks than that.
You missed the point. I'm not comparing fetches to TNN on power level. I'm comparing it as an expensive card that has demand and in my opinion could be reprinted in a product like a duel deck or commander precon to lower the price.
How does it help the player base to have the product for new players get snatched up by enfranchised players? The product you are looking for is Modern Masters. Commander decks are not the product for value reprints of highly sought after cards. If you believe otherwise, it is because that is what you want to believe, not because of anything that WotC has led you to believe.
You do realize they print commander products to demand right? Look what happened to TNN after they flooded the market with Mind Seize decks. $15 tcgplayer low, and you can get Mind Seize decks for MSRP for almost the last year. Supply > Demand = Price Drops
As for Modern Masters, not sure how $12 / pack for a chance at getting a modern staple is good for new players vs $35 for a modern staple plus extra stuff (if C15 had the fetches)
Missed opportunity to reprint enemy fetches in an easily accessible product. They print these to demand and big retail box stores carry them as well so the speculators would have their hands full trying to get all of the decks. Then WoTC would just drop the hammer on them like they did with Mind Seize. You can still find them on LGS store shelves for MSRP and True Name is 12.50 shipped nm on tcgplayer.
Yeah no. That would not work in the slightest, because there's a huge difference between enemy fetches and a legacy-only card that's played in a couple of decks.
The UR and UG decks would be worth vastly more than the other three which would suck for retailers because they'd still have to order full sets to sell those ones, leading to hugely overstocked piles of the other three on all store shelves while the blue ones are selling for ~70 each minimum just to carry the value of the sets.
Is that any different than what happened in the past with the 2013 and 2014 releases?
Also I doubt there would be hugely overstocked piles of the remaining three since the cheapest enemy fetch is currently at $32.00
Compare to the 2014 release where it's pretty well known the blue deck was undesirable and left to rot on shelves. Toss in a $35 fetch. Watch the shelves get cleaned.
And so people would buy the last three just on value alone. Or the reprint would drop prices making modern more accessible for new players. Either way, it helps the player base.
Missed opportunity to reprint enemy fetches in an easily accessible product. They print these to demand and big retail box stores carry them as well so the speculators would have their hands full trying to get all of the decks. Then WoTC would just drop the hammer on them like they did with Mind Seize. You can still find them on LGS store shelves for MSRP and True Name is 12.50 shipped nm on tcgplayer.
When casting Bribery, Tron will probably have Tron up by the time we hit five lands. They may have Karn, or they may draw him. Be careful when grabbing Emrakul, The Aeons Torn with Bribery! It's tempting, but ultimately I like to grab any Ulamogs they may have better. If Karn is on the board, Emrakul will just get exiled. If they're running old Ulamog, exile Karn. If they're running new Ulamog, even better: exile Karn and whatever Tron land to keep them off Tron. A Karn on the board and a Karn in hand will beat this game plan. There really isn't any reason to grab a Wurmcoil as far as I can tell.
Doesn't work like that. Both Ulamog removal triggers are upon cast not ETB and Bribery puts the creature into play under your control, which isn't cast.
On another note, my singleton Ajani, Caller of the Pride has won a few games in conjunction with Sun Titan. I'm running 3x Flickerwisp (my deck is a hybrid tap out / control) and dumping counters on Pilgrim's Eye or on Flickerwisp turns them into threats on stalled board states. I have to second the above poster on Negate, I run two and the card is awesome.
Question for those of you running Emeria Shepherd since I'm considering a 3/1 split with titan/shepherd:
Are you playing it on Turn 7 or 8? I'm assuming 8 to ensure you get a trigger before it eats dismember or path to exile.
My concern is against fast aggro it feels like she is too slow. I often stabilize by slamming a titan down on turn 6 and recurring lone missionary. Seems like one more turn I wouldn't be able to recover in time.
I know you can just side in more board wipes G2, but I'd rather have better tools to win G1
I can't be the judge on that sadly. I am currently running 1 (while on 3 fetches, but I will continue to run 1 after finding my 4th fetch) and might go up to two. If you have 0 Flooded Strands maybe get 2 Prairie Streams traded and then aim to spend the money on fetches first and foremost, before thinking of more battlelands. Here is a budget-list someone posted that might help you build a manabase, http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/mdn100-azorius-titan-control/.
Yep, I'm slowly acquiring the Prairie Streams and for each one I get, I take one Glacial Fortress out. If you run just a 2/2 split of Stream/Fortress with the 4x Shocks and 9 Plains, you get 15 plains cards for turning on Emeria (or you can just run evolving wilds instead of fortress). If I get up to 4x Steam, I'll run 8/2 split of plains/islands which makes for 10 blue sources total and 16 plains cards for emeria. Among the many lists I've researched it's usually 13-16 plains which puts me right on schedule.
If you feel brave you can drop the fortresses/wilds at that point for 2x more Ghost Quarter (this drops you to 7 blue sources) to complete the playset maindeck. Not wanting to pay $20 per fetch for Flooded Strand does constrict the manabase quite a bit but you save cash in the long run.
Flickerwisp is a beating in the tapout aggro version. I frequently start with Sun Titan to recur Flickerwisp to blink Titan, end my turn then recur Flickerwisp to blink Titan, they end their turn then recur something else like omens or w/e. Then everything is online and you swing for 6 in the air, 6 on the ground.
Flickerwisp also does work resetting Detention Spheres or opposing planeswalkers before they ultimate.
I have a single Monastery Siege, and have never once been unhappy to play it. I think it's worth testing, even in the Control version.
Well this site mostly died for me shortly after curse took over. Trades/sales dried up and the navigation quality of the site made it where it wasn't worth it anymore. Now we are being forced into yet again another merger. I've been a member for almost 7 years, been through some really good times and made some awesome deck building threads. 488 sales/trades. But yeah, I'm not making a twitch account, I don't go on twitch and don't want one. So I guess that's it for me. Thanks for the memories, MTGS.
I'm noticing it's a receivers market. I comb the send cards area frequently, and see a good trade pop up (I try to send at least 3 cards for at least 350 points), click their name to look over their list then go into my stock to find the cards. I come back in 10 minutes or so, and all their points are gone and the wants empty. This has prob happened 5-7 times just this week.
I added around 500 points worth of cards to my list this morning, and in less than 25 minutes I have people sending me 100 point cards by themselves? I would imagine you lose efficiency sending a 100 point card with a .50 stamp on the envelope!
I'm approaching the 4k mark, and I'm just hoping that when it comes time to put the strands on my wants that I'll get similar results. My average send is 250-350 points (I'm trying to trade up as I mentioned) so it's taking some work to save up points.
So far, I'm pretty happy with the site and community.
Also, Burnished Hart doesn't seem advantageous over Pilgrim's Eye. Doesn't block Plating carrying Thopters or Signal Pests, and is just too mana intensive and slow for my tastes.
Are any of these decks considered Tier 1? Jeskai Twin maybe but it's only 3/20 decks on page 1 of Twin on MTG Top 8. Is Tier 2 demand enough to spike a card 300%? UW Titan hasn't been Tier in a long time (it's already been demoted to dev comp in the forum)
I just got my playset 3-4 months ago for around $1.50 ea
I don't see any kind of tier 1 or 2 deck using them, and I never thought of it as a great card for commander either.
Emeria, the sky ruin also is getting above $4.50 shipped tcgplayer low nm, I got mine for $2 ea same time as the walls (I built Az Titan)
2013 decks have a weaker manabase and among them Derevi has the best and Marath the worst.
2013 decks have a severe lack of focus on their core themes. 2 decks in 1 as previously mentioned in this thread. They also have more filler cards that you generally would not play in edh (cards such as the Curses or Diviner Spirit)
My experiences have been that the 2014 decks are for the most part stronger than the 2013 decks. Prossh and Oloro come close as their decks have just enough synergy along with the sheer power level of the generals themselves to win games.
If I were to rank all 10 based on overall power 100% stock in both multiplayer and 1 vs 1 vs the other precon decks:
1) Freyalise - Very consistent and very high damage output and a general that has a powerful -2 and reaches ultimate quickly to refill your hand and keep the beats coming. This deck is fast, deadly and doesn't run out of gas if the general is played correctly.
2) Daretti - Has the ability to grind you out in the long game with a 1 card recursion engine along with powerful supporting cards in the deck (wurmcoil, caged sun). So many cool cards and lots of value to be found here.
3) Prossh - Prossh kills people dead by itself. The card is just ridiculous in power level in a precon deck format and the deck has just enough support to make him hard to keep in check. Prossh is that good and a couple of the cards in the precon help him shine.
4) Ob Nixilis - The deck contains some really good black cards and the commander can take over board states by itself with an army of 5/5 flyers if left unchecked. Great selection of demons and mono black staples.
5) Oloro - Pretty good card selection to support the lifegain theme and Oloro is really good, most of all if you cast him and abuse his ability. This deck isn't as fractured between the three generals as the other C13 decks.
6) Nahiri - This deck has a nice Angel and Board wipe selection, but the lack of quality equipment and equipment tutors and the sluggish speed of the deck really set it back. It's just way too slow... although assembling voltron can be a lot of fun.
7) Teferi - The untap ability is really strong. You ramp into some huge bombs and Cyclonic Rift and Rite of Replication are just broken, but aside from that the deck is kind of weird and has a lot of dumb beaters, which green does so much better and feels wrong in blue.
8) Derevi - This deck lacks enough wincons. Plain and simple you just don't have enough ways to close out a game and Derevi is just too small to get there by herself. The high point is if you like having a lot to do Derevi provides that aplenty in the precon deck.
9) Jeleva - The deck being split to support Nekusar and Jeleva doesn't make it consistent enough for Jeleva to win a lot of games. You whiff and/or just make people angry. Sometimes you get lucky and hit game breaking stuff which gets wins, but they feel cheap.
10) Marath - The manabase is just awful, and the deck is slow as molasses with all the huge beaters. Marath is really strong but the deck just stinks aside from a few cool singles. The weak manabase really kills this deck out of the box, and is the first place to upgrade.
Just my opinion, of course. I hope this is helpful. I would buy Freyalise, Daretti, Ob Nixilis, Prossh, Oloro, and Teferi/Nahiri
Yeah, I'm done here. Not wasting any more time on discussing this with you when I get this kind of response.
Keep in mind the manabases of the 2014 decks are solid out of the box. You may run into a few challenges with some of the 2013 decks (Nature of the Beast most of all)
I've played with or against all of the 2013 and 2014 decks. I prefer the 2014 decks because I feel the deck contents are higher quality and manabases stable. The 2013 generals are pretty sick though. The 2013 decks definitely have more chaff cards in my opinion (like the curses)
I've seen two of the 2015 decks in action (BG and UG) and they seem really fun to play stock. The lists looks solid as well.
If you plan to play them stock and against each other, I would get the 2014 set of 5 or the 2015 set of 5.
What's the difference between waiting a month or two and waiting for the next Modern Masters release like you keep suggesting? Higher than MSRP? Did you read my previous response?
Sure, I can agree with the reasoning here. I'm not being insistent, just stating my opinion that it was a missed opportunity to drop the prices on fetches. Commander releases are new player centric, but not their sole target with the product.
Price is the problem. But I'm saying it's better to have an $30-$80 card (not all enemy fetches are 80) guaranteed in a $35 product than in a product that is $12 for just a small chance at getting the card you need. TNN is an ok three drop? Right now it's in 15% of top 8 decks (mtg top 8) and during the time it was a 4 of in more decks than that.
You missed the point. I'm not comparing fetches to TNN on power level. I'm comparing it as an expensive card that has demand and in my opinion could be reprinted in a product like a duel deck or commander precon to lower the price.
You do realize they print commander products to demand right? Look what happened to TNN after they flooded the market with Mind Seize decks. $15 tcgplayer low, and you can get Mind Seize decks for MSRP for almost the last year. Supply > Demand = Price Drops
As for Modern Masters, not sure how $12 / pack for a chance at getting a modern staple is good for new players vs $35 for a modern staple plus extra stuff (if C15 had the fetches)
Is that any different than what happened in the past with the 2013 and 2014 releases?
Also I doubt there would be hugely overstocked piles of the remaining three since the cheapest enemy fetch is currently at $32.00
Compare to the 2014 release where it's pretty well known the blue deck was undesirable and left to rot on shelves. Toss in a $35 fetch. Watch the shelves get cleaned.
And so people would buy the last three just on value alone. Or the reprint would drop prices making modern more accessible for new players. Either way, it helps the player base.
Doesn't work like that. Both Ulamog removal triggers are upon cast not ETB and Bribery puts the creature into play under your control, which isn't cast.
On another note, my singleton Ajani, Caller of the Pride has won a few games in conjunction with Sun Titan. I'm running 3x Flickerwisp (my deck is a hybrid tap out / control) and dumping counters on Pilgrim's Eye or on Flickerwisp turns them into threats on stalled board states. I have to second the above poster on Negate, I run two and the card is awesome.
Are you playing it on Turn 7 or 8? I'm assuming 8 to ensure you get a trigger before it eats dismember or path to exile.
My concern is against fast aggro it feels like she is too slow. I often stabilize by slamming a titan down on turn 6 and recurring lone missionary. Seems like one more turn I wouldn't be able to recover in time.
I know you can just side in more board wipes G2, but I'd rather have better tools to win G1
Yep, I'm slowly acquiring the Prairie Streams and for each one I get, I take one Glacial Fortress out. If you run just a 2/2 split of Stream/Fortress with the 4x Shocks and 9 Plains, you get 15 plains cards for turning on Emeria (or you can just run evolving wilds instead of fortress). If I get up to 4x Steam, I'll run 8/2 split of plains/islands which makes for 10 blue sources total and 16 plains cards for emeria. Among the many lists I've researched it's usually 13-16 plains which puts me right on schedule.
If you feel brave you can drop the fortresses/wilds at that point for 2x more Ghost Quarter (this drops you to 7 blue sources) to complete the playset maindeck. Not wanting to pay $20 per fetch for Flooded Strand does constrict the manabase quite a bit but you save cash in the long run.
Flickerwisp also does work resetting Detention Spheres or opposing planeswalkers before they ultimate.
I have a single Monastery Siege, and have never once been unhappy to play it. I think it's worth testing, even in the Control version.