I think the addition Relentless Dead potentially makes Lashwrithe a better route than Gary these days. I've been testing both versions and I'm actually liking Lashwrithe more right now.
Relentless Dead is every bit as good as I thought he'd be. Truly the 2 drop this deck was waiting for.
Wrench Mind is such a powerful turn 2 play vs a lot of the field, I like how it's playing so far. Turn 1 IoK/Thoughtseize, turn 2 Wrench Mind, turn 3 LoTV is back breaking.
Relentless Dead and Collective Brutality are both incredibly powerful additions to this archetype. It really feels significantly more potent than the same time last year when I was playing MBD. I'm surprised this thread is so much less active than it used to be considering the staple cards we've gained recently.
I've never been a big fan of Bloodghast. His recursion is amazing but he's not a big enough offensive threat to outweigh his defensive weaknesses. Not in my metagame at least.
If I'm going to play a 2/1 that can't block it needs to at least have evasion, which is what I've always thought Bloodghast was lacking.
Relentless Dead gives me everything I want. Blocking, evasion, and resilience.
You definitely play it on turn 2. You don't worry about it dying because subsequent Relentless deads will just bring it back from the graveyard later in the game.
I'm assuming you're talking about mid range lists when saying control? Almost every list I've seen on here runs at least 16 to 17 creatures.
I don't think blocking for days will be the primary game plan for anyone. Even midrange lists ideally want to be threatening for the win on turn 5 by disrupting and then curving into messenger, obliterator, and Gary for example.
Relentless deads recursion will really begin to shine around turn 5. At that point he's threatening to bring back himself, other relentless deads and messengers.
I could care less about his well being until then, I'll be busy playing other huge threats like nighthawk, messenger, obliterator, and liliana. If they want to bolt my relentless dead over lili or nighthawk I'll take that all day. Any subsequent relentless is just going to bring him back.
So I already picked up a set of Relentless Dead before prices get out of control.
The more I look at him the more I like him. Menace really puts him over the top for me. It gives him a great early game to go along with his ridiculous late game.
We've been fortunate the past 2 sets. They've given us 2 modern playable black creatures in Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet and Relentless Dead that are very synergistic with our predominantly Zombie/Vampire creature base.
I like him as well. He can block, has pseudo evasion, buyback for B, and can bring back Messenger or even Gary late game. Not sure he'll make the cut but I'll certainly give him a shot.
I really feel like mono black lacks quality 2 drops. Bloodghast doesn't have evasion and can't block so I've always had issues with him. This guy has everything I'm looking for.
Depends on the metagame. But yah for now more aggro versions with Gravecrawler, Bloodghast, and Bloodsoaked Champion are not well positioned. Racing affinity, eldrazi, burn, and infect with 2/1's that can't block is not going to cut it.
But if the metagame shifts to midrange/control dominant they'll have their time.
You do need to stop bashing b/g though. You're just being a d1ck for no reason.
I don't see the point of coming in here and randomly bashing B/G devotion. If I weren't cheap and scared of random losses to Blood Moon (mainly cheap) I'd probably add a 2nd color as well(probably white).
Supposedly USPS found my lost Kalitas and they're on their way. So hopefully I'll be blazing my way into the new Eldrazi frontier with this monstronsity:
I want an above average amount of targeted discard because I believe protecting my Obliterator/Kalitas/Nighthawk will be key in this meta. Distress can take things like Reality Smasher and Thought-Knot Seer. I don't have any 2 drops so I don't see much of a downside in running it.
Lashwrithe on either one of those guys is a monumental issue for Elrazi.
My build has Messenger over Bloodghast though. Guaranteed damage outside of combat is too good to pass up, and he still works well with Kalitas. I also like Gary too much to cut him completely.
I'm not sure such an aggro meta is a bad thing. I mean the thing black does best is kill creatures..
Personally I'd rather deal with a meta full of one strategy than 3. Before the bannings and Eldrazi craze we had to worry about combo, mid range, and blitzkrieg aggro. If you went to a tourney it was very likely you'd encounter all 3.
With the current meta being almost entirely aggro we don't have to stretch our resources as thin to deal with multiple strategies.
Life hasn't allowed for much mtg the past 2 months but I'm definitely itching to try out some ways to combat the current meta.
I think I'd start with a 4 Vampire Nighthawk 3 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet build. They're both fantastic vs aggro (Nighthawk is amazing vs infect and affinity thanks to it's ability to handle Inkmoth and Blinkmoth). Preceded with a little discard to ensure survive-ability they're both game changers.
Mutilate or Damnation works fairly well with Kalitas too. Sweep the board and get zombies for all their non token creatures.
Wrath effects are about as well positioned as they'll ever be right now. Certainly worth considering main decking Mutilate or Damnation.
I think the current meta is pushing B/x devotion towards a more mid range path. It's just hard to see builds with bob, gravecrawler, and bloodghast being able to out race colorless edlrazi, affinity, infect, and burn which are dominating the metagame right now.
I think the addition Relentless Dead potentially makes Lashwrithe a better route than Gary these days. I've been testing both versions and I'm actually liking Lashwrithe more right now.
2 Leechridden Swamp
4 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Wrench Mind
3 Collective Brutality
3 Dismember
1 Victim of Night
2 Sign in Blood
1 Hero's Downfall
4 Relentless Dead
4 Geralf's Messenger
4 Phyrexian Obliterator
2 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
Collective Brutality is amazing utility. I'm very tempted to up it to 4.
Relentless Dead is every bit as good as I thought he'd be. Truly the 2 drop this deck was waiting for.
Wrench Mind is such a powerful turn 2 play vs a lot of the field, I like how it's playing so far. Turn 1 IoK/Thoughtseize, turn 2 Wrench Mind, turn 3 LoTV is back breaking.
Relentless Dead and Collective Brutality are both incredibly powerful additions to this archetype. It really feels significantly more potent than the same time last year when I was playing MBD. I'm surprised this thread is so much less active than it used to be considering the staple cards we've gained recently.
I've never been a big fan of Bloodghast. His recursion is amazing but he's not a big enough offensive threat to outweigh his defensive weaknesses. Not in my metagame at least.
If I'm going to play a 2/1 that can't block it needs to at least have evasion, which is what I've always thought Bloodghast was lacking.
Relentless Dead gives me everything I want. Blocking, evasion, and resilience.
Could be very good in a standard rb madness deck or something.
I don't think blocking for days will be the primary game plan for anyone. Even midrange lists ideally want to be threatening for the win on turn 5 by disrupting and then curving into messenger, obliterator, and Gary for example.
Relentless deads recursion will really begin to shine around turn 5. At that point he's threatening to bring back himself, other relentless deads and messengers.
I could care less about his well being until then, I'll be busy playing other huge threats like nighthawk, messenger, obliterator, and liliana. If they want to bolt my relentless dead over lili or nighthawk I'll take that all day. Any subsequent relentless is just going to bring him back.
Hes extremely versatile at any stage of the game.
The more I look at him the more I like him. Menace really puts him over the top for me. It gives him a great early game to go along with his ridiculous late game.
We've been fortunate the past 2 sets. They've given us 2 modern playable black creatures in Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet and Relentless Dead that are very synergistic with our predominantly Zombie/Vampire creature base.
I really feel like mono black lacks quality 2 drops. Bloodghast doesn't have evasion and can't block so I've always had issues with him. This guy has everything I'm looking for.
I'll definitely be preordering.
But if the metagame shifts to midrange/control dominant they'll have their time.
You do need to stop bashing b/g though. You're just being a d1ck for no reason.
I don't see the point of coming in here and randomly bashing B/G devotion. If I weren't cheap and scared of random losses to Blood Moon (mainly cheap) I'd probably add a 2nd color as well(probably white).
4 Phyrexian Obliterator
2 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Distress
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Hero's Downfall
2 Victim of Night
3 Dismember
2 Sign in Blood
2 Leechridden Swamp
I want an above average amount of targeted discard because I believe protecting my Obliterator/Kalitas/Nighthawk will be key in this meta. Distress can take things like Reality Smasher and Thought-Knot Seer. I don't have any 2 drops so I don't see much of a downside in running it.
I'll add Shizo, Death's Storehouse when Im able to obtain it.
Lashwrithe on either one of those guys is a monumental issue for Elrazi.
My build has Messenger over Bloodghast though. Guaranteed damage outside of combat is too good to pass up, and he still works well with Kalitas. I also like Gary too much to cut him completely.
Personally I'd rather deal with a meta full of one strategy than 3. Before the bannings and Eldrazi craze we had to worry about combo, mid range, and blitzkrieg aggro. If you went to a tourney it was very likely you'd encounter all 3.
With the current meta being almost entirely aggro we don't have to stretch our resources as thin to deal with multiple strategies.
Life hasn't allowed for much mtg the past 2 months but I'm definitely itching to try out some ways to combat the current meta.
I think I'd start with a 4 Vampire Nighthawk 3 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet build. They're both fantastic vs aggro (Nighthawk is amazing vs infect and affinity thanks to it's ability to handle Inkmoth and Blinkmoth). Preceded with a little discard to ensure survive-ability they're both game changers.
Mutilate or Damnation works fairly well with Kalitas too. Sweep the board and get zombies for all their non token creatures.
We have the tools to adapt IMO.
I think the current meta is pushing B/x devotion towards a more mid range path. It's just hard to see builds with bob, gravecrawler, and bloodghast being able to out race colorless edlrazi, affinity, infect, and burn which are dominating the metagame right now.