NeoFinnity made it into the top 16 of a StarCity Legacy Open.
This guy didn't run FoW at all, but had Tidehollow Sculler and Ethersworn Canonist for control. I like his list a lot actually, and I'm going to try and put it together. I'll let you guys know if it tests well.
Curious thing on jace. I was reading the forums from the early posts all the way up to these last few posts. I thought it was funny how people suggested the "neo-jace" for the deck and everyone quickly dismissed the idea. Now everyone talks about him as a 4 auto include... What happened there? haha...
^
This just made me go back and read through the first few pages of this thread.
I can't believe some of the comments. LOL
In between posts asking for a "good win condition" and "sources of card advantage" there are ones stating that Jace is just an overcosted Brainstorm.
That's weird, for some reason I had this idea in my head that you should always play around Stingscourger and Warren Weirding against Goblins regardless of which fatty you play.
Just nit picking but your hate list should look more like:
Just Emmy:
Karakas
Oblivion Ring
Mangara of Corondor
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Sower of Temptation
Gilded Drake
Grim Lavamancer + Basilisk Collar
Shriekmaw
Vampire Nighthawk
Stingscourger
Just Prog:
Perish
Llawan, Cephalid Empress
Story Circle
Moat
Hibernation
Prog/Emmy:
Humility
Runed Halo
Ensnaring Bridge
Wrath of God
Phyrexian Metamorph
Phantasmal Image
Just nitpicking but I'm pretty sure Stingscourger also hits Progenitus.
Also, you have to keep in mind that sacrifice effects such as Diabolic Edict, Innocent Blood, or Gatekeeper of Malakir exist as well.
Finally, Circle of Protection: any color defeats Progenitus pretty effectively.
It's still very promising, however, that (essentially) two Sneak Attack decks made top eight at the recent SCG Legacy Open.
I still don't see how Through the Breach is better than Sneak Attack if you understand how to retain priority...
Oh ok, my bad then. Oblivion Ring and Metamorph do nothing vs Sneak Attack and it can kill on first swing with Blightsteel Colussus (which is immune to Karakas also). Sneak Attack is the reason I love this deck.
But anyway this discussion made me curious so I'll be building an Hive Mind deck soon (or maybe make a mix of both by sideboarding Hive Mind + pacts).
This reveals your inexperience with this deck.
I assure you that, while Oblivion Ring and Phyrexian Metamorph do nothing against Sneak Attack, restricting you to only four win conditions will allow the other deck to race you quite easily.
Plus, there are other answers.
Karakas
Oblivion Ring
Mangara of Corondor
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Sower of Temptation
Gilded Drake
Grim Lavamancer + Basilisk Collar
Shriekmaw
Vampire Nighthawk
Moat
Humility
Perish
Llawan, Cephalid Empress
Runed Halo
Story Circle
Ensnaring Bridge
Wrath of God
Phyrexian Metamorph
Hibernation
Stingscourger
Phantasmal Image
... and a lot more that I can't name off the top of my head.
And those are against Emrakul, the Aeons Torn or Progenitus... arguably the two most "invincible" fatties...
When you're throwing in stuff like Ulamog, Kozilek, Woodfall Primus, Blighsteel Collosus, you're opening yourself up to even more risks... Swords to Plowshares comes to mind.
EDIT EDIT EDIT!: Someone made top eight at SCG Legacy Open: Richmond with Sneak Attack! They haven't posted up the lists yet, but he was covered in a feature match a few rounds earlier and his name just popped up in the top eight bracket! Hoorah!
Chalice of the Void is irrelevant.
It counters your Pact, but Hive Mind still triggers and gives your opponent a copy of the spell.
You'll actually be helping out the Hive Mind player.
As for the other part about Hive Mind requiring an additional card in your hand... yes, but in exchange, you don't have to swing (twice) with Emrakul, the Aeons Torn or Progenitus. And your deck doesn't have to worry about Karakas, Oblivion Ring, Phyrexian Metamorph, or people racing you down.
Once Hive Mind drops, if you have a Pact in hand, you win on the spot.
This list seems fine. I agree with almost everything. I don't like all of the 3-ofs in the MD, however. Things should be either 4-of or 2-of depending on their power level in this deck.
I've been travelling a lot, so I haven't had time to test. Once I get back to Beijing, I'll try my hand at this deck again.
I notice that so many people leave Sneak Show for Mind Hive deck..
What you think about it? Sneak Show it's going to dead?
Hive Mind is more resilient to hate and usually wins a turn earlier. It's better right now.
However, Sneak Show will never be dead. It's still one of the most consistent combo strategies in the game, and almost completely dodges Mental Misstep.
For Mono Blue Merfolk, Zoo is generally a bad MU. They have way too much removal.
For Sligh Zoo, the MU is probably around 70-30 in their favor. They come out of the gates way too quickly, and have enough burn to kill all our lords.
For Big Zoo, the MU is probably 60-40 in their favor. They're much slower, so we have time to set up the board.
For Blue Zoo, idk really, but I imagine it would be closer to even... maybe like 55-45. They do have Blue duals, so Lord of Atlantis gets turned on. They're slower than the other two versions, but they also have access to Mental Misstep to shut down AEther Vial.
Sorry I've been gone for so long. I've been so busy recently that I haven't had time to play MTG and haven't been able to check this website as much.
This is just to update you guys on a NeoFinnity list that performed very well.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=41211
NeoFinnity made it into the top 16 of a StarCity Legacy Open.
This guy didn't run FoW at all, but had Tidehollow Sculler and Ethersworn Canonist for control. I like his list a lot actually, and I'm going to try and put it together. I'll let you guys know if it tests well.
He's probably on par with Emrakul, the Aeons Torn and Progenitus. I'll try switching to a mix of the three with 3 Mental Misstep MD.
^
This just made me go back and read through the first few pages of this thread.
I can't believe some of the comments. LOL
In between posts asking for a "good win condition" and "sources of card advantage" there are ones stating that Jace is just an overcosted Brainstorm.
ROFL
It seems better than Sneak Attack to me, although you can get multiple uses out of the same SA...
Hmm... it doesn't.
That's weird, for some reason I had this idea in my head that you should always play around Stingscourger and Warren Weirding against Goblins regardless of which fatty you play.
Kinda strange...
It's not absolutely necessary, but it makes the deck much more competitive and resilient. I would strongly recommend it.
Just nitpicking but I'm pretty sure Stingscourger also hits Progenitus.
Also, you have to keep in mind that sacrifice effects such as Diabolic Edict, Innocent Blood, or Gatekeeper of Malakir exist as well.
Finally, Circle of Protection: any color defeats Progenitus pretty effectively.
It's still very promising, however, that (essentially) two Sneak Attack decks made top eight at the recent SCG Legacy Open.
I still don't see how Through the Breach is better than Sneak Attack if you understand how to retain priority...
This reveals your inexperience with this deck.
I assure you that, while Oblivion Ring and Phyrexian Metamorph do nothing against Sneak Attack, restricting you to only four win conditions will allow the other deck to race you quite easily.
Plus, there are other answers.
Karakas
Oblivion Ring
Mangara of Corondor
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Sower of Temptation
Gilded Drake
Grim Lavamancer + Basilisk Collar
Shriekmaw
Vampire Nighthawk
Moat
Humility
Perish
Llawan, Cephalid Empress
Runed Halo
Story Circle
Ensnaring Bridge
Wrath of God
Phyrexian Metamorph
Hibernation
Stingscourger
Phantasmal Image
... and a lot more that I can't name off the top of my head.
And those are against Emrakul, the Aeons Torn or Progenitus... arguably the two most "invincible" fatties...
When you're throwing in stuff like Ulamog, Kozilek, Woodfall Primus, Blighsteel Collosus, you're opening yourself up to even more risks... Swords to Plowshares comes to mind.
EDIT EDIT EDIT!: Someone made top eight at SCG Legacy Open: Richmond with Sneak Attack! They haven't posted up the lists yet, but he was covered in a feature match a few rounds earlier and his name just popped up in the top eight bracket! Hoorah!
It counters your Pact, but Hive Mind still triggers and gives your opponent a copy of the spell.
You'll actually be helping out the Hive Mind player.
As for the other part about Hive Mind requiring an additional card in your hand... yes, but in exchange, you don't have to swing (twice) with Emrakul, the Aeons Torn or Progenitus. And your deck doesn't have to worry about Karakas, Oblivion Ring, Phyrexian Metamorph, or people racing you down.
Once Hive Mind drops, if you have a Pact in hand, you win on the spot.
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Ancient Den
3 Vault of Whispers
3 Inkmoth Nexus
3 City of Brass
2 Mox Opal
2 Chrome Mox
Creatures: 19
4 Etched Champion
3 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Vedalken Certarch
3 Master of Etherium
4 Cranial Plating
4 Thoughtcast
4 Force of Will
4 Mental Misstep
3 AEther Vial
1 Batterskull
4 Dispatch
3 Leyline of the Void
3 Anul
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Manriki-Gusari
This list seems fine. I agree with almost everything. I don't like all of the 3-ofs in the MD, however. Things should be either 4-of or 2-of depending on their power level in this deck.
I've been travelling a lot, so I haven't had time to test. Once I get back to Beijing, I'll try my hand at this deck again.
I don't understand why this thread isn't sticky'd yet...
Hive Mind is more resilient to hate and usually wins a turn earlier. It's better right now.
However, Sneak Show will never be dead. It's still one of the most consistent combo strategies in the game, and almost completely dodges Mental Misstep.
Submerge, Dismember, and Umezawa's Jitte are usually enough anyway.
For Mono Blue Merfolk, Zoo is generally a bad MU. They have way too much removal.
For Sligh Zoo, the MU is probably around 70-30 in their favor. They come out of the gates way too quickly, and have enough burn to kill all our lords.
For Big Zoo, the MU is probably 60-40 in their favor. They're much slower, so we have time to set up the board.
For Blue Zoo, idk really, but I imagine it would be closer to even... maybe like 55-45. They do have Blue duals, so Lord of Atlantis gets turned on. They're slower than the other two versions, but they also have access to Mental Misstep to shut down AEther Vial.