I must ask the community, but I see people playing this deck without mana dorks, some playing 4 Nobles, and some playing both 4 Nobles and 4 Birds. Now I am interested in this deck and wondering if I can get by without Noble Hierarchs? I am only missing the Wilt-Leaf Lieges and Voice of Resurgences and would love to ignore Nobles. Although want is the benefit of not playing mana dorks? I can't really see a downside since this deck uses Gavony Township other than a real late game top-deck.
I actually also don't have nobles and Wilt-Leaf Lieges. My list looks like this:
Knights can easily be smiters, with the Vault of the Archangel being a third Township.
I just kinda liked the utility and possible size of the Knight, since most people can play around smiter easier without lieges. (Easier to play around the effect since there are only a possible 4-off in the deck instead of 8.)
Restoration Angel plays well as the 4-drop in the absence of Liege since it can trigger Kitchen Finks and Rhino for the abusive lifegain strategy of Pod.
I actually scanned two-three pages back and saw a couple of list discussions close to the list that top 8'ed the PT.
So I think it's safe to say it should be bundled up with this thread.
I have the Stirring Wildwood ready, so I can find space for it. probably -1 Gavony -1 Windswept Heath could do the trick?
Will look into Qasali Pridemage as well. Thanks!
Leaning more on having a horizontal boardstate, and having more early mana.
I wanted to build the deck around synergistic cards and cards that help each other instead of just having answers to things.
I've been toying with this list:
Mana Dorks/Lingering Souls + Gavony Township provide a very horizontal board approach where almost anything can deal in the final points of damage if required.
Tasigur + Murderous Cuts + Lingering Souls provide an engine of milling from the top to provide a good enough graveyard for Delve or Tarmogoyf
Voice of Resurgence + Lingering Souls provide another horizontal approach. Souls increase the elemental token's size that voice leaves behind and if they don't deal with voice, he's still a 2/2 body that keeps the opponents on sorcery speed.
Restoration Angel + Siege Rhino/Kitchen Finks/Reclamation Sage/Sin Collector give the deck a very ETB feel, but are still relevant threats on their own right.
Kitchen Finks + Gavony Township makes the finks a relevant threat, even without a sacrifice outlet.
I know this isn't the typical Abzan list seen in the past few posts, but I figured it was decent enough to post and is relevant enough to maybe warrant discussions.
Liliana of the Veil could squeeze into the list as a 4-off to compliment Tasigur, Cut, and Souls but I'm unsure of what I'm thinking of cutting. Could possibly cut Voice of Resurgence.
I've been brewing myself, and I've kinda gone for the chordless version. Although I guess you could say this would be less "Pod" and more junk?
But I like to call it Abzan Value Meal (since everything packs value)
Still trying to think of decent sac-outlets to further increase value for Finks (or cutting it out altogether) and voice of resurgence.
The archangel of Thune could be a different 5-drop game-finisher, but I think it synergizes well with the rest of the deck.
Gavony township and archangel of thune combined with all the lifegain triggers could make a decent army from lingering souls tokens, plus the tokens themselves help boost the elemental token Voice leaves behind.
Currently have Jund built up, and competitive. Staples and all, but due to the shifts in meta and my own personal feel of changing or switching up decks, I'm thinking of either going into junk midrange or Abzan Pod (with the angel+Feeder combo)
I currently have basically everything for Junk midrange and just lack marsh flats Where-as I'll need a whole lot more funds for Pod.
Thinking between the two decks, but if I go for Pod I'd most likely end up having to sell some non-pod staples to complete it. (Goyf, bob, or Liliana) I was wondering if it's worth turning my back on Jund/Junk completely for Pod or if I should just suck it up and play Midrange Junk.
Bloodbraid is one of my favorite cards and is one of the biggest reasons I am playing this deck. That being said, there are too many times where you get stuck with a Bloodbraid or 2 in hand when you cannot cast the damn thing. For that reason, 3 tend to be played MB.
For the list that got 9th place, I actually played against him at a tourney a week before SCG LA. He told me that the second Sylvan and the Scooze have been extremely instrumental vs. the non-blue decks. A second Sylvan and Scooze give him an edge in the mirror and against especially. I don't like the fact that he cut one to do it, but it seems like a lot of Jund decks are doing that right now.
Also, the guy plays the deck extremely well. Considering every single card in his deck was either foil or a foreign black border, I imagine he's been playing this deck for a while.
I also love Bloodbraid Elf. Don't get me wrong, cascading into stuff is extremely fun and swingy. But, just as centurion911 mentioned, there are far way too many times that the elf gets stuck in the hand due to mana restrictions. I used to run 4 as well, but slowly cut it to three being the widespread accepted number. Personally, I'm trying cutting it down to two to make space for the single ooze mainboard, and I still see the elf often enough during games due to the sylvan and bob triggers. I would play 3 but I feel like I just REALLY want the 4 abrupt decays maindeck.
Considering taking out that bolt for a golgari charm main perhaps, though. I like having the third bolt. But I sided charm in so much today, and it can be pretty nice to be able to do so many things (kill enchantments, kill elves, kill true-name, kill D&T guys, etc.). It may not save you against a bad combo matchup (though I imagine it's not the worst thing to blow up a sneak attack or omniscience, even if sometimes it just buys you a turn (and sometimes does more than that)), but it may be all around more helpful than another bolt. Unsure.
I remember a few Jund lists with that singleton Golgari charm mainboard during SCG Opens weeks back.
It's definitely worth considering since, as you mentioned, it does so much against a variety of different decks. It's almost never really a dead card, tbh. (even the regeneration can become crucial during some matchups.)
I've had oozes in my main and sideboard for the past week and I've sort of liked it. (in fact, my list is almost the same except for having one less BBE, retaining the fourth Abrupt Decay, and swapping the Lightning bolts for Tragic Slip for testing.)
I've also noticed most lists going down to three hymns as well. Is this because of a less combo-heavy meta?
I'm also guessing the second Sylvan Library in the board is for control match-ups?
typically, jund has specific one-offs that in the maindeck, being Sylvan Library (or top/mirri's guile) and Maelstrom pulse.
Maelstrom pulse serves as an out for things abrupt decay and pfire/bolt can't touch. (JTMS, Laylines, etc)
and Sylvan Library is really the only library manipulation accessible for non-blue decks like us.
how was playtesting without these singletons but with a full playset of bolts feel?
I have experimented a bit more with the 4 Decay, 3 Fire, 2 Bolt split of removal and have found that I lose some consistency with finding the Fire combo but I gain better interaction with a lot of cards (T1 Mom, Delver, Lodestone Golem, Painter). Going forward, I will probably keep this removal combo unless I find a field with Shardless BUG and other creature decks dominating, then I will switch for a 4th Fire.
A question I have is Engineered Plague vs. Golgari Charm. I have multiple friends who swing one way or the other. What are the main benefits of either or?
I like Engineered Plague for its permanence. There are some games where opponents can rebuild after a golgari charm.
Some matchups even concede to a resolved Engineered Plague, since nothing they can play can even interact with the card.
I actually also don't have nobles and Wilt-Leaf Lieges. My list looks like this:
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Voice of Resurgence
3 Kitchen Finks
3 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Siege Rhino
2 Restoration Angel
4 Path to Exile
4 Lingering Souls
4 Abrupt Decay
Lands: 23
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
2 Temple Garden
2 Gavony Township
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Plains
1 Forest
1 Swamp
Knights can easily be smiters, with the Vault of the Archangel being a third Township.
I just kinda liked the utility and possible size of the Knight, since most people can play around smiter easier without lieges. (Easier to play around the effect since there are only a possible 4-off in the deck instead of 8.)
Restoration Angel plays well as the 4-drop in the absence of Liege since it can trigger Kitchen Finks and Rhino for the abusive lifegain strategy of Pod.
finds pages upon pages of rants on Modern card Prices =(
on-topic, any information leaked lately that says wilt-leaf liege might see a reprint? =(
So I think it's safe to say it should be bundled up with this thread.
Maybe rename it to GWx Hatebears?
If I would be building something similar, I would probably go with something like...
3 Birds of Paradise
2 Noble Hierarch
4 Voice of Resurgence
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Kitchen Finks
3 Loxodon Smiter
4 Siege Rhino
2 Wilt-Leaf Liege
4 Path to Exile
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Lingering Souls
Lands: 23
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats
3 Razorverge Thicket
3 Gavcony Township
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Temple Garden
1 Godless Shrine
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Forest
Thanks!
I have the Stirring Wildwood ready, so I can find space for it. probably -1 Gavony -1 Windswept Heath could do the trick?
Will look into Qasali Pridemage as well. Thanks!
I wanted to build the deck around synergistic cards and cards that help each other instead of just having answers to things.
I've been toying with this list:
3 Birds of Paradise
2 Noble Hierarch
4 Voice of Resurgence
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Kitchen Finks
2 Reclamation Sage
2 Restoration Angel
4 Siege Rhino
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Spells: 10
2 Path to Exile
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Lingering Souls
1 Murderous Cut
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats
3 Razorverge Thicket
3 Gavony Township
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Godless Shrine
2 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Plains
2 Sin Collector
3 Thoughtseize
1 Dismember
1 Murderous Cut
2 Drown in Sorrow
1 Golgari Charm
2 Fracturing Gust
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Relic of Progenitus
Notable interactions:
I know this isn't the typical Abzan list seen in the past few posts, but I figured it was decent enough to post and is relevant enough to maybe warrant discussions.
Liliana of the Veil could squeeze into the list as a 4-off to compliment Tasigur, Cut, and Souls but I'm unsure of what I'm thinking of cutting. Could possibly cut Voice of Resurgence.
But I like to call it Abzan Value Meal (since everything packs value)
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Voice of Resurgence
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Birds of Paradise
2 Reclamation Sage
4 Siege Rhino
2 Archangel of Thune
2 Restoration Angel
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Kitchen Finks
4 Lingering Souls
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Path to Exile
Lands: 23
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats
1 Swamp
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Temple Garden
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
3 Razorverge Thicket
3 Gavony Township
Still trying to think of decent sac-outlets to further increase value for Finks (or cutting it out altogether) and voice of resurgence.
The archangel of Thune could be a different 5-drop game-finisher, but I think it synergizes well with the rest of the deck.
Gavony township and archangel of thune combined with all the lifegain triggers could make a decent army from lingering souls tokens, plus the tokens themselves help boost the elemental token Voice leaves behind.
This is actually quite helpful. Why didn't I think of that.
Awesome advice.
I currently have basically everything for Junk midrange and just lack marsh flats Where-as I'll need a whole lot more funds for Pod.
Thinking between the two decks, but if I go for Pod I'd most likely end up having to sell some non-pod staples to complete it. (Goyf, bob, or Liliana) I was wondering if it's worth turning my back on Jund/Junk completely for Pod or if I should just suck it up and play Midrange Junk.
Suggestions are welcome.
I also love Bloodbraid Elf. Don't get me wrong, cascading into stuff is extremely fun and swingy. But, just as centurion911 mentioned, there are far way too many times that the elf gets stuck in the hand due to mana restrictions. I used to run 4 as well, but slowly cut it to three being the widespread accepted number. Personally, I'm trying cutting it down to two to make space for the single ooze mainboard, and I still see the elf often enough during games due to the sylvan and bob triggers. I would play 3 but I feel like I just REALLY want the 4 abrupt decays maindeck.
I remember a few Jund lists with that singleton Golgari charm mainboard during SCG Opens weeks back.
It's definitely worth considering since, as you mentioned, it does so much against a variety of different decks. It's almost never really a dead card, tbh. (even the regeneration can become crucial during some matchups.)
3 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Tarmogoyf
Planeswalkers (4)
4 Liliana of the Veil
Lands (23)
1 Forest
1 Swamp
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
1 Sylvan Library
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Lightning Bolt
3 Punishing Fire
3 Hymn to Tourach
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Thoughtseize
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Engineered Plague
1 Sylvan Library
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Golgari Charm
2 Pyroblast
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Duress
I've had oozes in my main and sideboard for the past week and I've sort of liked it. (in fact, my list is almost the same except for having one less BBE, retaining the fourth Abrupt Decay, and swapping the Lightning bolts for Tragic Slip for testing.)
I've also noticed most lists going down to three hymns as well. Is this because of a less combo-heavy meta?
I'm also guessing the second Sylvan Library in the board is for control match-ups?
Maelstrom pulse serves as an out for things abrupt decay and pfire/bolt can't touch. (JTMS, Laylines, etc)
and Sylvan Library is really the only library manipulation accessible for non-blue decks like us.
how was playtesting without these singletons but with a full playset of bolts feel?
I like Engineered Plague for its permanence. There are some games where opponents can rebuild after a golgari charm.
Some matchups even concede to a resolved Engineered Plague, since nothing they can play can even interact with the card.