MTG Salvation

Counterspell is not too good; against most decks mana leak is basically the same card.

You're right, activating an ability isn't the same as casting a spell so the Staff won't trigger. Hope I helped

I beat Manatee 2-0, but the second game was one of the trickiest and hilarious games I've ever played. It was close.

Love your deck man, good luck next tournament

Or not :0

Hazzard I thought we were playing 4 hours from the time right now.

If you still want to play then we can.

Hazanko, you are aware that the non-dredge list is faster than the dredge list right? And even if they are about the same speed, non-dredge is more resilient, etc.

Pizzap is right, you either play no dredgers or a lot of them, and I'm convinced that none of them is better.

Tron is basically our worst matchup and stuff like Sowing Salt is too much mana. My solution is to basically not waste any sideboard slots on it and instead just lose the match. Tron is a small part of the field and we don't have too many other horrid matchups.

As for boggles, back to nature seems like a good option. Stuff like fleshbag or liliana can be played around in boggles, like fetching up a dryad arbor and such. Plus 3 mana is too much.

Essence Warden is great against aggro and burn, the matchups where you'd bring it in. Though you want to run more than 2 in your board, otherwise you may not find it or find it to late, and having 2 on the field is just incredible. Fragile yes, but if it eats a burn spell that's totally fine too.

I run Varolz and Viscera Seer in my deck as sac-outlets, and that makes Essence Warden absolutely bat***** insane. I can repeatedly sac VVines, Bloodghasts, and most of all Gravecrawlers to gain huge amounts of life (As a side note, doing things like this also untaps VVines to block after combat). I've pondered even moving a warden or 2 into my maindeck, because they can be so incredible.

Bottom line is that Seer is one of the best cards in the deck and Essence Warden is a decent sideboard card with or without Seer.

I've found Gnaw to the Bone to be a bit slow / underwhelming, but it's probably better in a version that runs dredge cards.

Tymaret has been too slow for me but I guess I could try him again. At least he is a zombie. His abilities just cost so much mana. 4 to play him from the grave, 2-3 to shock depending on if you are using gravecrawler or ghast as the outlet. I don't mind casting my topdeck cards or flashing back lootings if I end up getting that late into the game.

I would agree that BOP is significantly worse if you don't run Varolz combo. But I think Varolz combo is the way to go, and I love turn 1 BOP.

As for lands I don't necessarily think that 20 is too much, but I do agree that 18-19 is do-able. I run 19. I made that cut back when I went up to 4 Satyr Wayfinder and 4 Birds. I could see 18 is a possibility but there's already times when I get mana screwed and feel *****ty.

I'm not scared of blood moon, it's a rarely seen card and I don't want to adjust my deck to it. I do run a forest and a swamp, and that's good enough for me.

With so little land, and often keeping 1 land hands, I think that Dakmor Salvage's cons outweigh the pros. I'd rather not play that card.

I feel that if this deck is played right, it should be hyper aggressive and 4 drops that do very little (Purphoros, Sidsi) shouldn't be playable. Some midrange decks out there with disruption can rock 4 drops (Olivia, Huntmaster, Restoration Angel) and very rarely aggro decks can rock 4 drops... only if the card is good enough (Bloodbraid, Seige Rhino).

Since most VVine lists play very little or no disruption and instead focus on the GY and speed, trying to play a midrange deck with a stronger late-game doesn't really work with the strategy. We should be putting Zoo on the defensive and be explosive as possible. Damnation is also bad from my point of view for this reason.

I could maybe see cards like this as a 1-of in the sideboard, but I think we can do better than that. Most midrange decks such as BGx and hatebears are excellent matchups for us anyway, so damnation seems like "winmore".

One of the most important questions when you play magic is "who's the beatdown" and with this deck, it should pretty much always be us. We shouldn't be messing around with Sidsi, Purphoros, or other 4 drops

Soulflayer you can exile to get Trample and/or Flying, mayybe haste but I'd rather keep my VVines.

Trample doesn't really do much when you already have flying, so having both is unimpressive.

Which makes me think Hooting Mandrills and/or Tombstalker are better.

I'd like to sign up to run a Normal. I do have some experience modding games, as I ran a Basic before here on MTGS.

Cr1TiKal Mafia

Very flavorful, hopefully quite funny. Extremely dry humor. Based on the 'best youtuber of All Time'. I'll bust out the roles and flavor soon and have someone review it.

Quote from Zx_xZ »

That's not what I would call a perfect parallel. Lackey doesn't enable ASAP if you play it turn 2. People always forget that. T1 Crab is almost completely worse than t2 crab because of the fact it can do something the turn it enters the battlefield. Unless you have nothing else to do turn 1, always wait to play Crab

I was addressing his argument so I think what I said still applies, but yes you are probably completely correct that turn 2 crab is better, good point.

I'm ecstatic too see 2 top 16s, that's nice. I like both lists but would make changes. In the sultai list, the ziggurauts don't work with the sideboard, which bothers me, also faithless looting is just so nice. In the second list, I don't dig dredge cards like GGT, but maybe I ought to test it more. I also don't like 3 Tasigur or all the removal taking the place of Varolz.

There is no such thing as a "less aggressive, more midrange dredgevine", and if there was it would be awful. The only reason of why some creature decks sacrifice speed is to play disruption such as counters, hatebears, or discard. We don't want to run any of those things. Therefore we should not sacrifice speed for absolutely nothing, and we should continue to try to be as fast as possible. You could make an argument for sacrificing speed for consistency or protection from hate, but we don't have a lot of options there. Bottom line is that Sidsi is unplayable in this deck.

Somebody asked about Forbidden Alchemy, and this is exactly why it's unplayable too, it's way too slow and not what we want to be doing on turn 3 or any turn for that matter. I've found Grisly Salvage to be too slow and that does more for less mana.

As far as Hedron Crab goes, again, if you don't want to play that in a dredgevine list with blue, you might as well not play goblin lackey in a legacy goblins list. It is weak and doesn't do anything until the turn after you play it. Birds of paradise or noble hierarch? Forget them, they also have the same problem. It's really silly logic... play the best cards, because if your opponent can deal with it, whatever, and if they can't, they are probably going to lose.

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Written by: Tom