@ Ender84: My apologies I did not see him in there.
I have recently sold off the bulk of my collection so this deck was not built with competion in mind. :symr::symw: are my favorite colours for casual play so I decided to throw together a deck using my favorite cards from those colours. There is lots of room for improvement in here, but there is also allot of fun stuff. I need help trimming the fun stuff.
Loose the Benalish Commander and replace him with a Darien, King of Kjeldor. The commander makes tokens far to slowly and at a very high mana investment. The nice thing with Darien is that nobody is going to want to give you the tokens, thus giving you a little breathing room.
I am also working on a similar deck for casual play. Would like me to post it as well so that we can compare some notes?
Ahh I see where you are going then. Just be careful with that combo. I tried it in a Wort, the Raid Mother goblin tribal deck. I was able to win one game that way, every game for a month afterwards I was unable to get either of those to resolve. You will take less hate because you general does not make tokens, but a trick like that will be remembered.
On a related note, if you want to run lots of creatures that make tokens when they ETB, make room for a Torrent of Souls. You won't regret it.
Use Sigil of the Empty Throne if you play allot of enchantments or Luminarch Ascension if can control how much life you lose. Do not underestimate those 4/4 tokens. They have taken me to the cleaners before when I played against a Zur the Enchanter deck.
Also consider Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder, he does not make tokens himself but when other creatures join the party he starts his army. Too bad it consumes him, but that can be worked around depending on what you are trying to do.
You are passing up on some golden opportunities. Rats are one of my favorite tribes, and my last constructed with them deck used the same colours. Here is a list of of some all stars that you will need.
Torrent of Souls: Combine with a creature that has a good ETB and a fresh token army for amazing results.
Hit / Run: Boost you horde when needed, force an opponent to sac and take damage when it is not. The hit portion will make the cheeky person who just cast an eldrazi after a board wipe cry.
Hellhole Rats: I collected these foil so it is a pet card to me, but a late game discard effect like this can be devastating.
Marrow Gnawer: You really need him. Even if you are not using him to make a horde, giving your relentless rats evasion will help you seal the deal.
Finally I would like to second Jivamukta's recommendation on bloodbond march. Another thing you can do to use the relentless rats quanity to your advantage is Nantuko Shrine. Yes it will make squirles, but isn't one rodent the same as another?
This is my most recent brainwave. I like all of the new efficient green beaters, but I did not feel that mono-green was enough to do the job. Any suggestions for this rough concept for an aggro deck?
Remove the Birds of Paradise. In a normal 60 card constructed deck he is excellent, but in EDH those first 3-4 turns do not dictate the game, which nullifies his tempo advantage. Since you deck is not designed to be that fast, replace him with something that does not die to wrath effects and will give you an advantage that will last.
That is correct. I do not feel that the deck needs allot of mass recursion. Unlike most zombie decks I do not plan on building a huge graveyard and going for the overkill combo's. I fear that if I load my grave with too much it will draw excessive hate, and I will never get a combo off. I want to focus on building an active battlefield, and then when that inevitably gets knocked out I fire off Zombie Apocalypse/Balthor the Defiled. Also keep in mind that Havengul Lich & Rooftop Storm can also return an entire graveyard worth of creatures without a sweat. I'll gamble on not needing Living Death.
@ johnjust: Perilous Forays is an excellent land generator when you have the tokens to sac. I do not want to add any more 5cc cards to my list, and I have Thawing Glaciers so I won't personally use this card, but anyone not wanting to run the same ramp that I have using should consider it. The land fetching artifacts are a personal preference.
You are running enough artifacts to make Phylactery Lich viable. In my Damia zombie build I have used him to replace Unbreating Horde. It serves the same function as a chump blocker, but it can survive a little longer due to indestructibly.
Despite my earlier pessimism, I have not been able to stop thinking about using Damia as a zombie general. Once I gave in and started hashing out a list, I started to like where the deck was going. As I had suspected, I am only using the blue to enable a few U/B zombies and rooftop storm, but that does seem to be enough. In proxy tests Havengul Lich has proven to be a bomb, Rooftop Storm has a few more combo's than I had imagined, and of course Grimgrin does his thing. This list needs a few more changes (Too many "pet" cards), but so far it is rather solid.
I have decided to base this deck on the standard zombie combo list ( Galspanic has written a primer here). That means that I am foregoing a mill tactic against my opponent so that I alone can gain the most benefit from Tombstone Stairwell. Eldrazi's are also way too common in my meta for aggressive milling to work anyway. I have also decided not to use discard effects like Zombie Infestation so that I do not need to depend upon Damia's CA.
Rooftop Storm + Creeping Renaissance = A very one sided recursion technique. One the downside, you need both of these cards to do it, one the upside Creeping Renaissance can get back any enchantments you may have lost. Some would suggest Praetor's Counsel instead, but I am iffy about the :symg::symg::symg: in the cost. I have been trying to keep the color splash as low as possible.
Wild Pair works very well with zombies which are mostly 2/2's. The lords really knock this out of the park by allowing you to grab bigger and bigger zombies with each creature you cast. (Cast a lord, grab a lord, cast a 3/3 grab Mikaeus or Geth) As far as flavor is concerned, when was the last time you encountered only 1 zombie?
I decided to make use of Damia's handsize guarantee with Ivory Tower and Venser's Journal because of Shepherd of Rot. As a matter of personal taste I wanted to keep Drain Life and similar spells out of this deck, but I still needed to be ahead in life. These cards will also counter the negative effects of Graveborn Muse and Phyrexian Arena.
As far as mana fixing goes, I have 2 reasons for using the land fixing artifacts. The first is because I plan to recur them with Glissa, the Traitor when I can, and the second is because I believe in the controversial "deck thinning" technique. It is the same reason I put Thawing Glaciers in here. The first few turns are slow for zombie combo and I would rather fix my land than sit and do nothing.
Survival of the Fittest is my replacement for Morality Shift, which I consider mana intensive and unpredictable. Tombstone Stairwell needs creatures in the bin in order to combo, but I would rather be in control over what creatures are chilling out there. You could also setup a mean recursion by pitching good zombies and following up with a Balthor the Defiled (That you would have tutored for.), but I suspect your opponents will see that coming a mile away.
Fallen Ideal is a personal favorite. It proved its weight in my Nath deck way back, and I suspect that it will do the same here too. As complex as this sounds, Damia + Gravecrawler + any other zombie + Fallen Ideal + 9 black or Rooftop Storm = instant general kill. It is also useful as a recurring way to provided evasion.
No Mercy is a replacement for Vengeful Pharaoh. I really dig his flavor, but the combat damage only restriction and return to the top of my library really makes him strictly worse. Having him destroy a tiny unblockable and not take out the Primeval Titan on the next players turn is what sealed his fate. If I had more discard I would consider him again, but that is not what this deck does.
Flavor wise I cannot justify Cream of the Crop, however the scrying effect has proven itself to be too damn useful. Most zombies start at 2 power, and when you drop allot of them (Army of the Damned or Syphon Flesh) you can more or less dictate what you draw next.
1. A deck like this is a great home for Kusari Gamma. Choosing to either take 8 damage from a massive beater or have your entire field wiped is a great place to put your opponents into.
2. The Llanowar Elves, Llanowar Dead & Elvish archdruid are Weaksauce in this format. The druid less so because it could work well in a tribal environment, but that is not what this is. The best those creatures can do is chump block, or provide short term mana ramp. There are way too many wrath effects in this format to trust them. I would recommend Traveler's Amulet, Horizon Spellbomb, Armilary Sphere and/or Expedition Map in those slots. Do not underestimate having land advantage. In this format speed is not as helpful as durability. The deck thinning will also help you draw a little bit better.
3. I would toss out the Giant Growth. It is good for a laugh, but honestly the effect is just a tad too small. Rancor is by far a superior choice due to the trample and the difficulty your opponents will have with getting rid of it. Sure they could destroy it, some effects might exile it, but it is rarely worth the effort.
If you are dead set on using an instant effect, I would recommend Invigorate. Use the minimal life gain as a political bargaining chip, or use it as a final boost on Glissa. If they take 21 commander they are still toast, even if you did give them an extra 3 overall health.
4. Get some land destruction. Ghost Quarter, Tectonic Edge and Strip Mine are essential tech in a build like this. You are only attacking with 1 or 2 beaters a turn so a Maze of Ith will sink you. I do not know your meta, but if "that guy" who owns and runs cards like that ever shows up, you will be glad to have the LD. Cabal Coffers, Academy Ruins and other broken land also warrant these cards. Do not waste them on dual lands to screw with somebody's color fix, you will keep your friends.
One of the few EDH / Commander decks that you want Verdant Succession in. Yes you have to go through the bother of making them green, however if you use a general that is :symb::symu::symg: you will have Shifting Sky at your disposal. Intruder Alarm could also be combo tastic.
You can leverage allot of crazy ideas with Relentless Rats. The best one I have ever heard involves Nantuko Shrine. I read it once on Daily MTG (cannot find the article....) The idea is populate the graveyard with rats, in EDH I would simply let my opponent wrath me, then play this and another rat. If the idea is to be a swarm, be a swarm!
Also, Swarmyard. If you get a Marrow Gnawer on the field, it can help keep him around a few turns.
Also, also... If you take the B/U/G suggestion, include a Read the Runes. Great way to get non-rat combo pieces in your hand and rats in the bin.
1 Goblin Bushwhacker
1 Weathered Wayfarer
1 Wall of Omens
1 Field Marshall
1 Mirror Entity
1 Soltari Champion
1 Hero of Bladehold
1 Matron Stromgald
1 Hellrider
1 Flame-Kin Zealot
1 Hero of Oxid Ridge
1 Knight-Captain of Eos
1 Balefire Liege
1 Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Captain of the Watch
1 Darien, King of Kjeldor
1 Sun Titan
1 Windbrisk Raptor
1 Ajani Vengant
1 Elspeth Tirel
1 Condem
1 Fight to the death
1 Fatal Frenzy
1 Orim's Thunder
1 Inferno
1 Shattering Spree
1 Earthquake
1 Starstorm
1 Idyllic Tutor
1 Chain Reaction
1 Cerebal Erruption
1 Waves of Aggression
1 Warp World
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Veteran's Armaments
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Armillary Sphere
1 Konda's Banner
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Jar of Eyeballs
1 Thunderstaff
1 Soul Foundry
1 Eldrazi Monument
1 Land Tax
1 Rise of the Hobgoblins
1 Goblin Trenches
1 Mobilization
1 Light of Sanction
1 Martyr's Cause
1 Repercussion
1 Glory of Warfare
1 In the Web of War
1 Gratious Violence
1 Martyr's Bond
1 Vicious Shadows
1 Temple of the False God
1 Scorched Ruins
1 Strip Mine
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Rugged Prairie
1 Ancient Amphitheater
1 Boros Garrison
1 Thawing Glaciers
13 Plains
15 Mountain
I have recently sold off the bulk of my collection so this deck was not built with competion in mind. :symr::symw: are my favorite colours for casual play so I decided to throw together a deck using my favorite cards from those colours. There is lots of room for improvement in here, but there is also allot of fun stuff. I need help trimming the fun stuff.
The deck currently uses Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran as the general, but I will switch to Gisela, Blade of Goldnight as soon as she is available. I will also add Pyrohemia at that time.
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I am also working on a similar deck for casual play. Would like me to post it as well so that we can compare some notes?
On a related note, if you want to run lots of creatures that make tokens when they ETB, make room for a Torrent of Souls. You won't regret it.
Use Sigil of the Empty Throne if you play allot of enchantments or Luminarch Ascension if can control how much life you lose. Do not underestimate those 4/4 tokens. They have taken me to the cleaners before when I played against a Zur the Enchanter deck.
Torrent of Souls: Combine with a creature that has a good ETB and a fresh token army for amazing results.
Hit / Run: Boost you horde when needed, force an opponent to sac and take damage when it is not. The hit portion will make the cheeky person who just cast an eldrazi after a board wipe cry.
Hellhole Rats: I collected these foil so it is a pet card to me, but a late game discard effect like this can be devastating.
Marrow Gnawer: You really need him. Even if you are not using him to make a horde, giving your relentless rats evasion will help you seal the deal.
Ratcatcher: One rat guarantee per turn.
Finally I would like to second Jivamukta's recommendation on bloodbond march. Another thing you can do to use the relentless rats quanity to your advantage is Nantuko Shrine. Yes it will make squirles, but isn't one rodent the same as another?
4 Furnace Scamp
4 Viridian Emissary
4 Strangleroot Geist
3 Predator Ooze
2 Vorapede
4 Brimstone Volley
3 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Postmortem Lunge
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Tragic Slip
2 Woodland Cemetery
2 Rootbound Crag
1 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Evolving Wilds
11 Forest
Travelers Amulet, Wayfarer's Bauble, Horizon Spellbomb, Expedition Map, and/or Armillary Sphere could replace Krosan Tusker and Pale Recluse. They are good creatures, but you are not packing a great deal of grave recursion which reduces what makes these cards effective in commander.
Remove the Birds of Paradise. In a normal 60 card constructed deck he is excellent, but in EDH those first 3-4 turns do not dictate the game, which nullifies his tempo advantage. Since you deck is not designed to be that fast, replace him with something that does not die to wrath effects and will give you an advantage that will last.
That is correct. I do not feel that the deck needs allot of mass recursion. Unlike most zombie decks I do not plan on building a huge graveyard and going for the overkill combo's. I fear that if I load my grave with too much it will draw excessive hate, and I will never get a combo off. I want to focus on building an active battlefield, and then when that inevitably gets knocked out I fire off Zombie Apocalypse/Balthor the Defiled. Also keep in mind that Havengul Lich & Rooftop Storm can also return an entire graveyard worth of creatures without a sweat. I'll gamble on not needing Living Death.
@ johnjust: Perilous Forays is an excellent land generator when you have the tokens to sac. I do not want to add any more 5cc cards to my list, and I have Thawing Glaciers so I won't personally use this card, but anyone not wanting to run the same ramp that I have using should consider it. The land fetching artifacts are a personal preference.
I have decided to base this deck on the standard zombie combo list ( Galspanic has written a primer here). That means that I am foregoing a mill tactic against my opponent so that I alone can gain the most benefit from Tombstone Stairwell. Eldrazi's are also way too common in my meta for aggressive milling to work anyway. I have also decided not to use discard effects like Zombie Infestation so that I do not need to depend upon Damia's CA.
02 Gravecrawler
03 Withered Wretch
04 Shepherd of Rot
05 Lord of the Undead
06 Zombie Master
07 Cemetery Reaper
08 Zombie Trailblazer
09 Death Baron
10 Diregraf Captain
11 Fleshbag Maraunder
12 Phylactery Lich
13 Rotlung Reanimator
14 Glissa, the Traitor
15 Graveborn Muse
16 Balthor the Defiled
17 Vengeful Dead
18 Havengul Lich
19 Grimgrin, Corpse-Born
20 Vulturous Zombie
21 Corpse Harvester
22 Noxious Ghoul
23 Grave Titan
24 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
25 Geth, Lord of the Vault
26 Helldozer
27 Gempalm Polluter
29 Army of the Damned
30 Traveler's Amulet
31 Horizon Spellbomb
32 Expedition Map
33 Armillary Sphere
34 Extraplanar Lens
35 Caged Sun
36 Lightning Greaves
37 Fallen Ideal
38 Ivory Tower
39 Venser's Journal
40 Oversold Cemetery
41 Creeping Renaissance
42 Profane Command
43 Zombie Apocalypse
44 Survival of the Fittest
45 Cream of the Crop
46 Phyrexian Arena
47 Buried Alive
48 Liliana Vess
49 Wild Pair
50 Pernicious Deed
51 Decree of Pain
52 Krosan Grip
53 Perplex
54 Maelstrom Pulse
56 Syphon Flesh
57 Tormod's Crypt
58 Grave Pact
59 Tombstone Stairwell
60 Endless Ranks of the Dead
61 No Mercy
62 Call to the Grave
63 Rooftop Storm
64 Reliquary Tower
65 Cabal Coffers
66 Urborg, tomb of Yawgmoth
67 Volrath's Stronghold
68 Unholy Grotto
69 Temple of the False God
70 Svogthos, the Restless Tomb
71 Phyrexian Tower
72 Twilight Mire
73 Tainted Wood
74 Golgari Rot Farm
75 Woodland Cemetery
76 Overgrown Tomb
77 Dimir Aqueduct
78 Tainted Isle
79 Drowned Catacomb
80 Flooded Grove
81 Misty Rainforest
82 Thawing Glaciers
Rooftop Storm + Creeping Renaissance = A very one sided recursion technique. One the downside, you need both of these cards to do it, one the upside Creeping Renaissance can get back any enchantments you may have lost. Some would suggest Praetor's Counsel instead, but I am iffy about the :symg::symg::symg: in the cost. I have been trying to keep the color splash as low as possible.
Wild Pair works very well with zombies which are mostly 2/2's. The lords really knock this out of the park by allowing you to grab bigger and bigger zombies with each creature you cast. (Cast a lord, grab a lord, cast a 3/3 grab Mikaeus or Geth) As far as flavor is concerned, when was the last time you encountered only 1 zombie?
I decided to make use of Damia's handsize guarantee with Ivory Tower and Venser's Journal because of Shepherd of Rot. As a matter of personal taste I wanted to keep Drain Life and similar spells out of this deck, but I still needed to be ahead in life. These cards will also counter the negative effects of Graveborn Muse and Phyrexian Arena.
As far as mana fixing goes, I have 2 reasons for using the land fixing artifacts. The first is because I plan to recur them with Glissa, the Traitor when I can, and the second is because I believe in the controversial "deck thinning" technique. It is the same reason I put Thawing Glaciers in here. The first few turns are slow for zombie combo and I would rather fix my land than sit and do nothing.
Survival of the Fittest is my replacement for Morality Shift, which I consider mana intensive and unpredictable. Tombstone Stairwell needs creatures in the bin in order to combo, but I would rather be in control over what creatures are chilling out there. You could also setup a mean recursion by pitching good zombies and following up with a Balthor the Defiled (That you would have tutored for.), but I suspect your opponents will see that coming a mile away.
Fallen Ideal is a personal favorite. It proved its weight in my Nath deck way back, and I suspect that it will do the same here too. As complex as this sounds, Damia + Gravecrawler + any other zombie + Fallen Ideal + 9 black or Rooftop Storm = instant general kill. It is also useful as a recurring way to provided evasion.
No Mercy is a replacement for Vengeful Pharaoh. I really dig his flavor, but the combat damage only restriction and return to the top of my library really makes him strictly worse. Having him destroy a tiny unblockable and not take out the Primeval Titan on the next players turn is what sealed his fate. If I had more discard I would consider him again, but that is not what this deck does.
Flavor wise I cannot justify Cream of the Crop, however the scrying effect has proven itself to be too damn useful. Most zombies start at 2 power, and when you drop allot of them (Army of the Damned or Syphon Flesh) you can more or less dictate what you draw next.
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http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=384579
2. The Llanowar Elves, Llanowar Dead & Elvish archdruid are Weaksauce in this format. The druid less so because it could work well in a tribal environment, but that is not what this is. The best those creatures can do is chump block, or provide short term mana ramp. There are way too many wrath effects in this format to trust them. I would recommend Traveler's Amulet, Horizon Spellbomb, Armilary Sphere and/or Expedition Map in those slots. Do not underestimate having land advantage. In this format speed is not as helpful as durability. The deck thinning will also help you draw a little bit better.
3. I would toss out the Giant Growth. It is good for a laugh, but honestly the effect is just a tad too small. Rancor is by far a superior choice due to the trample and the difficulty your opponents will have with getting rid of it. Sure they could destroy it, some effects might exile it, but it is rarely worth the effort.
If you are dead set on using an instant effect, I would recommend Invigorate. Use the minimal life gain as a political bargaining chip, or use it as a final boost on Glissa. If they take 21 commander they are still toast, even if you did give them an extra 3 overall health.
4. Get some land destruction. Ghost Quarter, Tectonic Edge and Strip Mine are essential tech in a build like this. You are only attacking with 1 or 2 beaters a turn so a Maze of Ith will sink you. I do not know your meta, but if "that guy" who owns and runs cards like that ever shows up, you will be glad to have the LD. Cabal Coffers, Academy Ruins and other broken land also warrant these cards. Do not waste them on dual lands to screw with somebody's color fix, you will keep your friends.
You can leverage allot of crazy ideas with Relentless Rats. The best one I have ever heard involves Nantuko Shrine. I read it once on Daily MTG (cannot find the article....) The idea is populate the graveyard with rats, in EDH I would simply let my opponent wrath me, then play this and another rat. If the idea is to be a swarm, be a swarm!
Also, Swarmyard. If you get a Marrow Gnawer on the field, it can help keep him around a few turns.
Also, also... If you take the B/U/G suggestion, include a Read the Runes. Great way to get non-rat combo pieces in your hand and rats in the bin.