I'm now working on my second EDH deck. I love the Savra, Queen of the Goglari, and it needs to be that general. I love having infinite combos in my decks, but i don't want it to be an all-out combo deck like my Ghave.
Here are some of the cards I'd like to use. I need tips on how to abuse sacrificing to the fullest.
I'd also really enjoy adding contamination, and some better ways to abuse survival of the fittest since I own that card and it is almost useless in my Ghave deck.
I also want to be able to win through comboing (so maybe the addition of blasting station or bitter ordeal), but also through beatdown or general damage. I usually only play dual or 3-player though I'm looking to get into a more consistent playgroup.
tap land for 2 mana, make a token with gave for 1, use Earthcraft to untap that land, use the other mana to sac the token back to Ghave for 1. Do this 300(assuming 4 player game) or so times, cast Bitter Ordeal, pass your turn, and each opponent dies on his draw phase.
I am even thinking about putting Urza lands in now.
Hello all. Here is my combo-tastic Ghave deck. My friends and I have been playing with proxies, so I'm looking to change my mana base up to not include any original dual lands and maybe 1 or 2 shock lands. So, here is the list without the mana base.
What is a good mana base that doesn't include dual-lands or the onslaught fetches? I've been playing with proxies of those cards but it's not fun anymore.
Here is a list of the possible combos in the deck, and some I haven't included:
1 Ghave + Earthcraft + Juniper Order Ranger= infinite tokens, however all but the last "infinite" token will be tapped. You can add blasting station to win on-the-spot.
2 Ghave + Ashnod's Alter + Juniper Order Ranger=infinite tokens, infinitely big Ghave, and the tokens are all untapped allowing the addition of triskelion, blasting station, or bitter ordeal to win instantly
3 Ghave + Doubling Season +Earthcraft/Ashnod's Alter=infinite tokens, ghave, mana, etc.
4 Ashnod's Alter + Juniper Order Ranger + Woodfall Primus=Infinite nonland permanent destruction; with blasting station or bitter ordeal it is also an instant win
5 Essence/Soul Warden + Ajani's Pridemate + Ghave +Earthcraft/Ashnod's Alter = infinite life, tokens, and--with Ashnod's--infinite Ghave Note: with the above combos adding skullclamp or fecundity allows you to draw your entire deck
I realize how Gitaxian Probe is useless in the pact versions of SI, but I feel it could be well utilized in the Land Grant Version by helping make cabal therapy better. The problem is that the list is very tight, and I can't think of what to take out for Gitaxian Probe, or if things could be taken out should probe be a 2,3,or 4 of?
I feel SI is a lot weaker now in the current meta, and am I wrong in thinking that LGSI is better suited while still being quite quick?
For the blue matches I would highly suggest tomb of urami's. These pose huge problems for any blue match up due to the incredible cheapness and efficiency this deck gets from it. I am currently testing Mental Misstep as a replacement for duress in the sideboard.
That makes a lot of sense. The problem I'm having with LGSI sideboarding is that md there is only 1 belcher. Could LGSI still utilize bringing in carpet of flowers and more belchers for multiple belchings? And then tomb or urami? And in the LGSI versions, is xantid or veil better?
Does anyone else find the LGSI version more resilient?
Ok. So with more testing on cockatrice, I've realized that I can much more consistently get my combo off while playing with the LGSI list. There have also been multiple times against non-blue decks where I've fizzled on turn one after d4ing myself to 2 life, and then winning via IGG loop the next turn.
Maybe the reason is still that I don't understand how to pilot the Pact version well enough, but I find the LGSI a lot more consistent and I love having cabal therapy. Along with ill-gotten gains, you can destroy their hands.
Why don't these lists play 1 bayou and 1 dryad arbor? Is it solely because it can only be fetched with LG with no pacts?
Also, I'm not crazy about the man-plan sibeboard, and the sideboard from the pact lists don't quite fit in well enough. Any suggestions for updated sideboard lists for the Land grant lists? Is autumn's veil or xantid swarm superior in this cases?
I've noticed the same things about blue heavy matchups. However, I won against solidarity and a u/w control deck by just tacking a gamble and going all-in hoping they didn't mull into fow or or mm. But I feel I just got super lucky
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Also I'm thinking i was wrong in thinking I knew how to play the pact list. While I figured out some o the reasons eternal witness is so good plus how good summoners pact can be, I still get more consistent turn 1 or 2 kills with lgsi lists and I love how well those lists abuse cabal therapy.
I would like to hear more indepth answers to how to better utilize eternal witness while Comboing off. I already see how ew and sp work well with led but I don't use them that much.
Right now I like the land grant version better but I don't understand why those decks don't use dryAd arbor instead of the 2 bayous.
I played this deck in a small tournament yesterday and went 3-3. A large part of it was me fizzling (probably because I went for it when I should have waited.) I was playing the standard psi build.
One thing I noticed was that slithermuse was underwhelming. I've been goldfishing some more, and I really like ill-gotten gains better. I like winning now instead of d7ing first. I think I'm also going to try to stick wild cantor or vine dryad in there because a lot of times I wanted more culling the weak fodder.
You clearly did not even go back 1 page to read some responses or you would've found this gem of a post:
This post makes so much sense, I think it should answer your question.
I disagree. Mystical Tutor was only banned, what, a little over a year ago because it was used in ANT, which was winning a lot back then. However, mental misstep not only counters mystical tutor, but makes the decks that abused it much weaker too. So even if mental misstep had an errata that said can counter any 1cc spell that isn't mystical tutor, I still think you could bring it back.
In summary, it was broken until ANT broke it. ANT and other storm combo just got a lot weaker with mental misstep even without mystical tutor. Mental Misstep can also counter mystical tutor. When you look at this way, I'd say the card could easily come back.
These seem like good choices. It's looking like there might not be room for Propaganda anymore, but that card has saved me and bought me time numerous times. What are some thoughts about propaganda?
I like spell snare a lot. I'm trying to decide between wf bouncer, drake, and curfew. It seems that show&tell decks are getting more play. Curfew handles both emrakl and progenitus, but is useless otherwise, though I probably won't need hibernation anymore. Wf bouncer handles other creatures but not progenitus and is awful in the card advantage area. Drake is cool because stealing an emrakul is nice, but I can't see it being helpful in anymore situations.
I'm also going to see about adding 2 pithing needles either MD or more SB, but I haven't had too much problem with aether vial, though I've always seemed to be able to find a powder keg w/ an impulse.
Why don't more people like impulse? Digging four cards deep end of turn to find a particular board control element or looking for an out to save the game is so helpful imo. It seems like this deck could use Jace, but I don't see a good way to protect him. Thoughts?
I really would like to make this a competitive deck because I love blue, and it doesn't get more blue than this.
Here are some of the cards I'd like to use. I need tips on how to abuse sacrificing to the fullest.
1 Savra, Queen of the Goglari
Creatures
1 Quillspike
1 Devoted Druid
1 Necrotic Ooze
1 Woodfall Primus
1 Puppeteer Clique
1 Eternal Witness
1 Nether Traitor
1 Reassembling Skeleton
1 Genesis
1 Sadistic Hypnotist
1 Braids, Cabal Minion
1 Terastodon
1 Ant Queen
1 Hornet Queen
1 Grave Titan
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Algae Gharial
1 Vulturous Zombie
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Ashnod's Alter
1 Nim Deathmantle
1 Mimic Vat
1 Skullclamp
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Sol Ring
Enchantments
1 Grave Pact
1 Fecundity
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Necropotence
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Awakening Zone ?
1 Squirrel Nest ?
1 Earthcraft ?
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Bayou
1 Gilt-leaf Palace (I don't really understand why this is that good of a card, explain please.)
1 Phyrexian Tower
I'd also really enjoy adding contamination, and some better ways to abuse survival of the fittest since I own that card and it is almost useless in my Ghave deck.
I also want to be able to win through comboing (so maybe the addition of blasting station or bitter ordeal), but also through beatdown or general damage. I usually only play dual or 3-player though I'm looking to get into a more consistent playgroup.
Earthcraft only untaps basic lands.
What is a good mana base that doesn't include dual-lands or the onslaught fetches? I've been playing with proxies of those cards but it's not fun anymore.
1 Ghave, Guru of Spores
Creatures
1 Juniper Order Ranger
1 Sigil Captain
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Woodfall Primus
1 Gaea's Herald
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Academy Rector
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Eternal Witness
1 Kinght of the Reliquary
1 Triskelion
Enchanments/ Artifacts
1 Doubling Season
1 Earthcraft
1 Grave Pact
1 Aura Shards
1 Fecundity
1 Sterling Grove
1 Privileged Position
1 Sylvan Library
1 Phrexian Arena
1 Ashnod's Alter
1 Blasting Station
1 Squirrel Nest
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Chord of Calling
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Idyllic Tutor
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Wordly tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Bitter Ordeal
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Path to Exhile
1 Vindicate
1 Mortefy
1 condem
1 Beast Within
1 Krosana Grip
Here is a list of the possible combos in the deck, and some I haven't included:
2 Ghave + Ashnod's Alter + Juniper Order Ranger=infinite tokens, infinitely big Ghave, and the tokens are all untapped allowing the addition of triskelion, blasting station, or bitter ordeal to win instantly
3 Ghave + Doubling Season +Earthcraft/Ashnod's Alter=infinite tokens, ghave, mana, etc.
4 Ashnod's Alter + Juniper Order Ranger + Woodfall Primus=Infinite nonland permanent destruction; with blasting station or bitter ordeal it is also an instant win
5 Essence/Soul Warden + Ajani's Pridemate + Ghave +Earthcraft/Ashnod's Alter = infinite life, tokens, and--with Ashnod's--infinite Ghave
Note: with the above combos adding skullclamp or fecundity allows you to draw your entire deck
I feel SI is a lot weaker now in the current meta, and am I wrong in thinking that LGSI is better suited while still being quite quick?
That makes a lot of sense. The problem I'm having with LGSI sideboarding is that md there is only 1 belcher. Could LGSI still utilize bringing in carpet of flowers and more belchers for multiple belchings? And then tomb or urami? And in the LGSI versions, is xantid or veil better?
Does anyone else find the LGSI version more resilient?
Maybe the reason is still that I don't understand how to pilot the Pact version well enough, but I find the LGSI a lot more consistent and I love having cabal therapy. Along with ill-gotten gains, you can destroy their hands.
Why don't these lists play 1 bayou and 1 dryad arbor? Is it solely because it can only be fetched with LG with no pacts?
Also, I'm not crazy about the man-plan sibeboard, and the sideboard from the pact lists don't quite fit in well enough. Any suggestions for updated sideboard lists for the Land grant lists? Is autumn's veil or xantid swarm superior in this cases?
.
Also I'm thinking i was wrong in thinking I knew how to play the pact list. While I figured out some o the reasons eternal witness is so good plus how good summoners pact can be, I still get more consistent turn 1 or 2 kills with lgsi lists and I love how well those lists abuse cabal therapy.
I would like to hear more indepth answers to how to better utilize eternal witness while Comboing off. I already see how ew and sp work well with led but I don't use them that much.
Right now I like the land grant version better but I don't understand why those decks don't use dryAd arbor instead of the 2 bayous.
One thing I noticed was that slithermuse was underwhelming. I've been goldfishing some more, and I really like ill-gotten gains better. I like winning now instead of d7ing first. I think I'm also going to try to stick wild cantor or vine dryad in there because a lot of times I wanted more culling the weak fodder.
I disagree. Mystical Tutor was only banned, what, a little over a year ago because it was used in ANT, which was winning a lot back then. However, mental misstep not only counters mystical tutor, but makes the decks that abused it much weaker too. So even if mental misstep had an errata that said can counter any 1cc spell that isn't mystical tutor, I still think you could bring it back.
In summary, it was broken until ANT broke it. ANT and other storm combo just got a lot weaker with mental misstep even without mystical tutor. Mental Misstep can also counter mystical tutor. When you look at this way, I'd say the card could easily come back.
Why isn't stifle played more in merfolk? I feel we can take real advantage of the tempo gained, plus it doesn't hurt to have it against combo.
Here is what I consider to be the essentials:
4 force of will
DRAW
3/4 Fact or Fiction
4 Impluse or Ancestral Vision
3/4 Ratchet bomb/ powder keg
WINCON
2-4 ?
Land
24 Islands
Here are the rest ones that we can to add to build to MD and SB: Back to Basics(I still think this needs a place) Propaganda Energy Field sphinx of jwar isle vendilion clique rainbow efreet teferi, mage of zhelafir meloku the clouded mirror energy field chalice of the void curfew waterfront bouncer echoing truth repeal forbid foil(not on board with this one but it provides an interesting idea) hibernationelves, green decks, and Progenitus (worse than emrakul) gilded drake pithing needle.
I'm sure there are lot more cards to consider. I'm getting to work, is anyone with me?
I want to play a MUC list at the upcoming Star City Games in LA, so I want to have the most optimized list.
Energy field really helps against merfolk.
I'm also going to see about adding 2 pithing needles either MD or more SB, but I haven't had too much problem with aether vial, though I've always seemed to be able to find a powder keg w/ an impulse.
Why don't more people like impulse? Digging four cards deep end of turn to find a particular board control element or looking for an out to save the game is so helpful imo. It seems like this deck could use Jace, but I don't see a good way to protect him. Thoughts?
I really would like to make this a competitive deck because I love blue, and it doesn't get more blue than this.