So this is a deck I'm thinking about putting together simply because I think it would be fun and I happen to have most of the cards I would need. I would like some advice, however, on anything I could do to make it run smoother. Looks like it'll be choppy. The strategy is to bring out a Chronozoa and then eventually get out the Avatar of Woe + Thornbite Staff combo. Then I will kill my chronozoa creating an infinite army of 3/3 flyers. Wrath of God and Lightning Bolt are there to kill my chronozoas and stall while I wait on my combo. I should mention this is a very rough idea of what the deck will look like (just thought about putting it together today) So, Ideas? Suggestions?
Okay so just checking but if my buddy plays two Patron Wizards and then taps one wizard he is only activating the ability of one Patron Wizard and my spell is countered unless I pay 1. Am I correct in this reasoning?
It seems everyone is running Inquisition of Kozilek over Thoughseize. Is there a reason for that or is it just because Thoughtsieze costs $$$? Also, what are people's thoughts on Sinkhole? If you run a few copies alongside Wasteland it seems that your opponent's land base would be pretty devistated.
I like the model now with 1 cradle mainboard and 1 in wishboard with living wish; giving that a try now. I'd do 2 (max) cradle mainboard if you have em, and potentially a crop rotation so you can sac 1 to get the other and reload. I like priest of titania a lot, and run 4 (plus 1 archdruid), but only 1 birchlore. I think if you're not splashing white that birchlore isn't good enough to run 3 of. And quiririon ranger I only run 3 of, since I rarely need 2 of them out (since I rarely have that many forests anyways).
So what would I replace Birchwood Rangers with? -2 Birchlore +2 Llanowar? And cool! I like the idea of running 1 Crop Rotation.
Using information on this thread I finally decided to ditch the Slith Firewalker (personal card choice -- I know he's not that good) and add in Keldon Marauders, so I am currently running:
I think it's safe to cut a few with a mono-green build. Mono-green generally wants to just combo off as fast as possible as it doesn't have as many options for grinding things out - 12/2 is a good split, although I do like Bernardo's take on mono-green (12/3 Spirit Guide). The reason for running so few lands is that you'll generally only ever need 1 or 2 forests max, and you obviously don't want to hit lands when you're Glimpse comboing. If you can reliably draw 1-2 (and only 1-2) in your opening hand, you're probably golden with whatever number of lands you're running to achieve this. Goldfishing should provide you with a number that feels right.
However, I'd highly suggest stretching your manabase a bit to incorporate a Savannah (or two) and 6-7 fetches (sticking with 16 lands + Arbor). I really like the nearly "combo Maverick" approach that's possible with GW: you gain access to some great sideboard options, Mirror Entity as a kill condition/utility card, and you can hardcast the GW one-of Zenith targets that many lists want to run. Birchlore Rangers will allow for all of these in a pinch, but I'd rather not count on it (especially if you want to run cards that only require white in the board). 16 lands also allows for more consistent land drops, which is nice when you're having trouble sticking creature mana.
Comboing off on turn 2 is great, but it's not always going to happen - even when you're goldfishing. And tournament matches are never going to be goldfishes. I'm positive that most tournament (even FNM) matches will be grinds (at least games 2 and 3), and it's nice to reliably be able to win with 2-3 elves (regardless of which elves you manage to stick) and an Entity (Ezuri can do a decent job of filling in for Entity) rather than simply counting on having a fast combo clock (re: faster than your opponent's clock) and being able to stick certain dorks. Some will argue that this isn't the point of Combo Elves, or that we play this deck because it's a combo deck and we get to play awesome 15-mana win conditions. I'd personally rather not rely on a win condition that's entirely reliant on comboing (or randomly drawing into it AND sticking Priest/Cradle + a broken number of untaps/an absurd number of Elves).
That said, mono-green could be a great meta choice for you. I'm obviously a strongly-opinionated advocate of GW elves - "if you're not playing Entity, you're doing it wrong" - but mono-green is a ton of fun, and almost certainly has a faster combo clock. And again, it could be stronger in the right FNM meta.
Thanks. I appreciate the advice. I think I'm gonna stick with mono green, however, due to the fact that it is an additional $300 or more to splash. I will however, cut down on my forests (and add llanowars?). Plus I'm not aiming to win the SCG tournys or anything just local ones
@jaoush123: I would presonally say drop at least 1 cradle (3 is just too much). If it were up to me I wouldn't run any cradles because 1) they can be wastelanded 2) sucks as your only land in your hand and 3) you just don't need it (trust me there isn't too much of a speed difference with or without it because combo elves is explosive enough as is). Many people are starting to see that you don't need the cradles and it allows the deck to run smothly without them, but remember this is your deck and this is just my suggestion. Also drop a GSZ or 2 because they get reshuffled back into your deck afterwords and they don't trigger Glimpse so 2-3 should be plenty. Also as my last critique I would drop the archdruid because that 1 extra cmc over priest is a big deal and you don't need the lord effect in legacy, (and trust me just about 100 percent of the time I wished my archdruid was a priest so I just dropped it and noticed that the deck runs better with just priests and no archdruids.
So the changes I would make would be:
Cuts:
1-3 Gaea's Cradle
1-2 Green Sun's Zeneth
1 Archdruid
Additions
1-3 Forests
1-2 Llanowar/Fyndhorn Elves
1 Priest of Titania
Remember these are just suggestions that I think would help your deck run more smoothly and you don't need to follow all or any of my suggestions because this is your deck and you get the final say, but I am just trying to help improve your deck. Just try the suggestions before completely saying no to them because you may be surprised by the results.
Thank you very much. It's nice to run across a polite magic player for a change haha. I will def give your suggestions a try.
Okay I changed it around a bit. Here is an updated list. Threw in a Craterhoof Behemoth too (I think he is better than Joraga Warcaller?) And threw in a playset of GSZs. How's it look now? I had to take out a lot of Titanias and Archdruids as well as a copy of both Llanowar and Fyndhorn Elves. Is that okay?
Okay, so I'm sure this card has been discussed somewhere in these two hundred pages of discussion but what about Craterhoof Behemoth as a Dread Return target? Is it better or worse than Flame-Kin Zealot? I am of the oppinion that it could be better than Zealot because of it's insane ability to pump up your creatures. Trample is a nice touch too. Or is the Zealot better because of the haste?
I am in the process of creating a dredge deck so I do not have the ability to play test anything.
Okay so Dryad Arbor is a forrest and a creature. It has summoning sickness and it taps for green. However, because it is a forrest can it tap for mana the turn it comes into play and just not attack? Or can it not tap or attack the turn it comes into play?
So really, many elf list can do the trick, if you want to relay more on the heritage/nettle combo, I believe that at least 2+ birchlore must be run along, summoner pact is to be preffered as tutor, and titania/archdruids must be few, really simple.
Why is Summoner's Pact perfered over Green Sun's Zenith when relying on the heritage/nettle combo? And when is GSZ perfered? When you have more Llanowars and archdruids?
So I have a modern Swath Storm deck and I kinda wanna see how it works in Legacy. I modified it by changing the searchers to better, legacy legal, ones and improving the land base. Other than that, however, the deck is pretty much the exact same one I play in modern. I have not changed a single red spell in the deck. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can continue to improve this list?
Hey so I'm thinking about switching from Agro Elves to Combo Elves (Combo seems like more fun) and so I wrote up a decklist. Please tell me what you think. A few questions I had were: Why is nobody using Elvish Spirit Guide anymore? How many Priest of Titania / Elvish Archdruid do I need? And is Summoner's Pact the optimal card or is Living Wish or Green Sun's Zenith better? But yea, here's what I got right now.
hahahahaha yeaaa maybe I should read a little more carefully next time. Okay nevermind guys.
4 Thornbite Staff
4 Chronozoa
3 Worldly Tutor
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
4 Ancestral Knowledge
4 Day of Judgment
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Chain Lightning
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Vexing Shusher
4 Savage Lands
4 Jungle Shrine
4 Arcane Sanctum
4 Crumbling Necropolis
So what would I replace Birchwood Rangers with? -2 Birchlore +2 Llanowar? And cool! I like the idea of running 1 Crop Rotation.
How's this look?
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Regal Force
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
2 Birchlore Rangers
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Elvish Visionary
3 Quirion Ranger
2 Priest of Titania
4 Glimpse of Nature
3 Green Sun’s Zenith
3 Summoner’s Pact
1 Crop Rotation
15 Land:
12 Forest
2 Gaea’s Cradle
1 Dryad Arbor
Dude, take out the Kiln Fiend and put in Vexing Devil. VD is second only to Goblin Guide when it comes to creatures in burn.
Thanks. I appreciate the advice. I think I'm gonna stick with mono green, however, due to the fact that it is an additional $300 or more to splash. I will however, cut down on my forests (and add llanowars?). Plus I'm not aiming to win the SCG tournys or anything just local ones
Thank you very much. It's nice to run across a polite magic player for a change haha. I will def give your suggestions a try.
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Regal Force
2 Llanowar Elves
2 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
3 Birchlore Rangers
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Quirion Ranger
1 Priest of Titania
1 Elvish Archdruid
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Green Sun’s Zenith
3 Summoner’s Pact
17 Land:
13 Forest
3 Gaea’s Cradle
1 Dryad Arbor
EDIT: Should I drop a Gaea's Cradle or stick with 3?
I am in the process of creating a dredge deck so I do not have the ability to play test anything.
Why is Summoner's Pact perfered over Green Sun's Zenith when relying on the heritage/nettle combo? And when is GSZ perfered? When you have more Llanowars and archdruids?
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Seething Song
3 Gitaxian Probe
4 Manamorphose
4 Past in Flames
4 Pyromancer’s Swath
4 Grapeshot
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Impulse
2 Force of Will
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Volcanic Island
1 Steam Vents
3 Island
2 Mountain
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Regal Force
3 Llanowar Elves
3 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
1 Birchlore Rangers
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Priest of Titania
3 Elvish Archdruid
4 Glimpse of Nature
3 Summoner’s Pact
17 Land:
13 Forrest
3 Gaea’s Cradle
1 Dryad Arbor