yeah primordial hydra isn't what i was looking for. raw power isn't enough. i used emrakul as an example cause he has raw power, with a multiple permanents killling (well sacrifice) ability.
those are both quite strong creatures, but i would say there are a lot stronger cards than that. I was thinking of cards like Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, etc.
I like the idea of having chalice of the void on the SB maybe 3 or 4, you can safely play chalice for 1 on turn 1 with any of the "sol ring" lands preventing anything form getting discarded and stopping angel's grace. It should play like this:
Turn 1 ancient tomb > chalice for 1
Turn 2 play island> show and tell > hive mind or emrakul.
That's a horrible idea. chalice counters your stuff too: including your ponders and brainstorms; your main digging tools. And you won't always be able to get those cards and the situation is unlikely.
what is the approximate cost to build hivemind? I haven't been able to locate any pricing in the "cost of legacy" threads. I apologize if I have somehow missed it and would appreciate any help.
Usually around $1.2k. Ben Swartz's list costs $1,158. Pretty cheap for a legacy deck -.- (still pretty expensives for 75 pieces of cardboard in my opinion)
Just played Ben Swartz's main deck list with metagamed sb at a channelfireball's thursday legacy. 3-0-1 finish. Here's my SB and a brief summary of matches.
SB reasoning: metagame filled with combo decks: reanimator, storm, charbelcher, etc. 3x Pithing needle dedicated to charbelcher, 4x energy flux dedicated to affinity hate, (its also quite good in the belcher match up)
Match 1: Belcher
Game 1: Keep (island, delta, brainstorm, force, ponder, blue pact, black pact) I force of willed (pitching pact of negation) a land grant after seeing a no land opener with rite of flame, no guide, both belcher and empty in hand. Turns pass with both players fishing. Opponent plays a land, I fake a force of will by repeatedly shuffling two cards back and force. He storms into empty the warrens with 8 goblins in play. I continue to dig, winning with hard cast hive mind at 4 life.
Game 2: SB: 3x Pithing needle, 4x Mental Misstep, out 4x show and tell, 3x emrakul
Mulligan, Keep: Brainstorm, ancient tomb, fetch, pithing needle, ponder, black Pact.
Opponent plays xantid swarm turn 1. I drop Pithing needle. turns pass, opponent dropps chrome mox and lion's eye diamond. I fish for hive mind with black and red pact up, with enough mana to play for both. I make a huge play mistake here. I forgot that he can pay for both pacts via seething song, and so I did not care to target his pact of titans token my my copy of slaughter pact, and instead killed xantid swarm, thinking that i would win. Result = me dying to pact token.
Game 3: SB: Out 3x pithing needle, in 3x Energy flux. Thought my opponent might board out of charbelcher. Energy flux would prevent him from dropping lions eye diamond/Mox to pay for pacts.
keep: Energy flux, ancient tomb, intuition, grim monolith, pact of negation. Hive mind. Yes this is a greedy keep, and risky too. The only reason to keep this hand is that your very certain that your opponent has boarded out charbelcher. After playing game 2, I was fairly certain. I drop ancient tomb. Opponent land grant into rite of flame into deserate ritual, cast charbelcher and lotus petal. Did not have lion's eye diamond. Whew. Turn 2, top decks land, cast energy flux. Game ended shortly after.
Match 2: BWU Darkblade.
Game 1: I open a godly hand and win on turn 2 via show and tell hive mind with force and pact back up.
Game 2: Out: 3x Emrakul. In: 3x Spell Pierce.
Repeat of game 1.
Match 3: RWB grim lavamancer dark confidant stone forge mystic deck.
His only game against me is hymn to tourach, duress, wasteland and dark confidant (and dark confidant is only relevant here because he might draw into more discard) This match is a by because you really only have to counter the discard. Dont waste your brainstorms, dont play lands stupidly and it should be an auto win.
Conclusion. Hivemind is really strong. Granted I think the sb is very important in its success and must be tailored to your metagame for the deck to be effective games 2,3.
In regards to spellsputter sprite and sundial, I think we can just SB spell snares. Spell snare also hits hym, confidant, counterspell, meddling mage, ethersworn cannonist.
Thanks for the feedback. always appreciate some. I have to wonder though, why sideboard out emrakul, especially show and tell. I use those cards often.
... I'm sorry, why Cabal Therapy? We have no creatures to sacrifice to Flashback.
Inquisition of Kozilek hits all the hate cards that I can think of (Angel's Grace, Flutterstorm, Stifle, Spellstutter Sprite, Sundial of the Infinite, Daze, Cursecatcher, etc).
Thoughtseize hits all of them + more, but causes you to lose two life.
Since we're not going to have creatures to Flashback Cabal Therapy, I'd rather just guarantee that we hit something.
In TheRogue's decklist he has some creatures that when dead, you can search for hive mind and put it into play. I would rather not put any discard in the deck, as it demands black too much for my taste but yes, I would go with inquisition too.
i actually wonder if wizards thought ahead and printed sundial to infinite just so there would be an actual answer to hive pact?
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since everyone is boarding against us, i'm liking my idea of cabal therapy mainboard a lot more, as it may improve match ups against hate sideboards, advantage is there relatively narrow array of possible sideboard options that stop us in the first place. so its relatively easy to remember what hate cards are available.
I think they did think it out just against this deck. I mean, it's useless unless your against hive mind.
And what hate cards????? The only one that is somewhat viable is stifle but I still win with emrakul. :/
That's true. GG. good debate. I'm just wondering if Firespout was still very good even without the green. I mean, you barely see flying creatures today but still.
Adding green sources to pay for summoner's pact is terrible. You'd need to fetch 2 tropicals, which will only rarely happen, and this makes your mana base incredibly greedy and vulnerable to nonbasic hate.
Well the thing is, what do you do when they stifle the trigger or pay the cost? Then your totally screwed unless you had pact of negation back up.
A very standard legacy deck, but very well made. All I would change is -1 Emrakul +1 Progenitus. And change some lands to put in some tropical islands. I don't know how he did it but he doesn't have a way to pay for his summoner's pact.
This thread is for BUG Landstill, but I'll respond anyways. Other than the price of the deck Xp the only really good cars in white are Elspeth 1.0 and StP. Elspeth could be really good in the deck but I really don't want to sacrifice more consistency.
Of course you do. The whole upkeep cost is part of the resolution of the pact.
Jace seems terrible in this deck. If Jace isn't being dropped onto an empty board, he's a 4 mana brainstorm. This deck doesn't interact at all with the opponent's board at all, so this will frequently be the case. He'd only be OK against other combo decks with no board presence, and then you'd be banking on a long game.
Wait wait wait, so do you still have to pay it??? O.o
Jace seems awesome in the deck. He bounces the creatures, searches for key cards, and even wins you the game.
Oh yeah, here's a question: If you cast a pact by the means of isochron scepter, do you still have to pay the upkeep cost?? I mean, it does say you don't have to pay the mana cost. If you don't have to pay for it would be a auto include. Totally forgot about the card.
And Jace, the Mind Sculptor seems worth it but I haven't found any space to put him into the deck.
Play Mox, discarding land, , play tomb, tap mox and tomb to cast show and tell to play hive mind and then play pact. there's nothing they can do about it.
The moxes not only give you a possibility of a turn 1 kill, but it also helps you fix your mana problems, and pay for the pact's cost with ease.
Let's also not forget Phyrexian Metamorph, tutor-able in many packages and a killer of both Emrakul and Progenitus. What's cool is I believe if he hits the board and kills the Pro, he himself also gets shuffled in because it never hits the GY to change its state as a card. Anyone want to verify this?
Actually if I remember correctly by new rules the same legendary that came into play the latest stays in play. :/
On another hand, what do you think is the strongest "enters the battlefeild" ability on a creature ever created? (name of card too please)
That's a horrible idea. chalice counters your stuff too: including your ponders and brainstorms; your main digging tools. And you won't always be able to get those cards and the situation is unlikely.
Usually around $1.2k. Ben Swartz's list costs $1,158. Pretty cheap for a legacy deck -.- (still pretty expensives for 75 pieces of cardboard in my opinion)
Thanks for the feedback. always appreciate some. I have to wonder though, why sideboard out emrakul, especially show and tell. I use those cards often.
In TheRogue's decklist he has some creatures that when dead, you can search for hive mind and put it into play. I would rather not put any discard in the deck, as it demands black too much for my taste but yes, I would go with inquisition too.
I think they did think it out just against this deck. I mean, it's useless unless your against hive mind.
And what hate cards????? The only one that is somewhat viable is stifle but I still win with emrakul. :/
I would like to debate about flusterstorm vs. spell pierce. I usually go with flusterstorm, but many other people go with spell pierce. Which one's better and why?
Well the thing is, what do you do when they stifle the trigger or pay the cost? Then your totally screwed unless you had pact of negation back up.
Ben Swartz
2011 StarCity Open Legacy - Seattle - 7/26
Main Deck:
3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Grim Monolith
4 Hive Mind
4 Intuition
4 Pact of Negation
3 Pact of the Titan
4 Ponder
4 Show and Tell
2 Slaughter Pact
2 Summoner's Pact
3 City of Traitors
2 Flooded Strand
3 Island
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
3 Firespout
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Mental Misstep
1 Slaughter Pact
3 Spell Pierce
A very standard legacy deck, but very well made. All I would change is -1 Emrakul +1 Progenitus. And change some lands to put in some tropical islands. I don't know how he did it but he doesn't have a way to pay for his summoner's pact.
Wait wait wait, so do you still have to pay it??? O.o
Jace seems awesome in the deck. He bounces the creatures, searches for key cards, and even wins you the game.
If you cast a pact by the means of isochron scepter, do you still have to pay the upkeep cost?? I mean, it does say you don't have to pay the mana cost. If you don't have to pay for it would be a auto include. Totally forgot about the card.
And Jace, the Mind Sculptor seems worth it but I haven't found any space to put him into the deck.
I don't use white, so I wouldn't use blightsteel colossus. When it comes to big creatures though, Iona, shield of Emeria could be a decent choice too.
Here's how it goes:
Hand: 1 Ancient Tomb, 1 Land, 1 Mox Diamond, 1 Show and Tell, 1 Hive Mind, 1 Pact, some other card
Play Mox, discarding land, , play tomb, tap mox and tomb to cast show and tell to play hive mind and then play pact. there's nothing they can do about it.
The moxes not only give you a possibility of a turn 1 kill, but it also helps you fix your mana problems, and pay for the pact's cost with ease.
@TheRogue You should use Lost Auramancers in your build.
Actually if I remember correctly by new rules the same legendary that came into play the latest stays in play. :/