I sold my whole collection to MTGOtraders for $2700, and it all went very smoothly. 48 hours to create the bid, another day or so to move the cards and then I received the check within a week.
The variance in this game is really getting to me, in such a huge way that I just had a few weeks break. It just happens too often that you spend 20 minutes drafting and then get stuck on 2 lands or whatever else.
So, I'd be in favor of anything that reduces variance. This seems to be one way, so I'm supportive!
Hope this isn't too necro, but how does this work with miracles? Say I cast Bonfire of the Damned as a miracle with x=3. Is the CMC on the stack 1+3 = 4 (alt. casting cost), or is it 1 + 3 + 3 = 7 (normal casting cost)?
The deck still isn't efficient to me. It could be the matchup. I couldn't beat hex blade or wolf run in game 1s. There just isn't enough power to go over the top quick enough. With sideboard, its quite different. Obviously this is metagame focused so if you don't deal with those matchups then results may vary. at my fnm there were suprisingly zero delver decks...
the curve is so high. Sure its nice having access to the tutors and the lotus for mana, but the deck doesn't have the kind of utility that grixis has. grixis has an arguably better end game as well.
I really want this to work but with this type of creatureless build, it isn't as good as i thought. Maybe staff of nin? maybe more relevant 1 and 3 drops? not sure.
Nihil spellbomb surely sounds like a good card, but then its just a 2 mana cantrip at some point. Sure it deals with zombies and snap caster, but i'd rather the one drop help smooth out my draws. the deck is so mana intensive that i'd argue that 24 lands may even be the bare minimum. 25 to 26 may very well be where its at.
You went 6-0 but you don't think the deck is strong
I'm also struggling with what to do the first few turns. I think adding Despise could be part of the solution -- I'm always glad to see those.
I also strongly advocate Nihil Spellbomb main. Worst case, its a 2 CMC cantrip, but
1) There are so many matchups that use the GY for utility (anything with Snapcaster, Undying, Runechanter's pike, Moorland Haunt, or Unburial Rites) that you often get more.
2) Many turns we don't have enough to do with our mana anyway
Tonight I will try Sphere of the Suns out. It would be so much better to get to 4 mana on turn 3, than getting to 5 mana on turn 4 like we do with Pristine Talisman. If anyone can come up with a nifty way of resetting them, that would be incredibly helpful.
I'm also considering adding a Griselbrand or Grave Titan or somesuch. I find I usually empty my opponents hand before starting to beat anyway.
2-1-1 last night, drew (1-1-1) against UB trading post. Not surprised, misplayed Karn a little bit but there wasn't anything I can do at that point since he drew both Spines he sided in. I believe both Karns would have died either way that I was thinking about playing.
I lost to BW tokens again. Anyone have decent success with them? I feel like the matchsup is slightly stacked in their favor, kinda like pod. It's another aggro deck that can get us to ~10 before we can board wipe, but if they have Doomed Travelers, a board wipe isn't as effective as it should be; after that, between Midnight Haunting dodging board wipes and well-played Lingering Souls (as opposed to people that just get all 4 tokens in one turn) and our general inability to remove Intangible Virtue & Honor of the Pures, mid/late game isn't bad at all for tokens.
The games I win against BW tokens are the games they don't draw a good mix of tokens/honors/intangibles, so their stuff continues being 1/1s or 2/2s and dies to Curse of Death's Hold or Staff of Nin or whatever. I lost one game when he had two Intangibles out and I was holding Massacre Wurm and Sorin Markov in my hand.
I'm doing OK vs. tokens with the list above (a bit tweaked to fit 3 Sign in Blood). I think the reason is that I run 3 Nihil Spellbomb and 6 sweepers main. From the SB I bring in 2 ratchet bomb and 3 Curse of Death's hold. The ratchet bombs actually hit their enchantments more often than their tokens.
My most troublesome matchup is Gx infect, which easily can one-shot us. They often run 8-of hexproof/protection from x, so you need a ton of spot removal to survive.
Agreed I used the wrong argument for the curve. The conflict is between GfT and Distress, but I think that's OK.
Regarding Ghost Quarter, I just added one to the SB for Kessig. I'd been using Karn for those, but I lost a bunch of games yesterday where I just couldn't keep up with the ramp and died before I could deal with it.
I'm not worried about Inkmoths since I'm running 3 Curse of D-H in the side.
Here is the tweaked list I've been trying out today.
I've been trying a version with 4 Sign in Blood over the last few days, and I have been very disappointed in the results. To keep a functioning curve with that many SiB, you need to use 1 CMC removal like Dismember. Contrary to what INS stated, when we are control, our most precious resource is life, which is the resource we spend to gain time to take control. I felt that the life cost of those spells made a real difference, and forced me to make inefficient plays just to stay alive.
One huge improvement I made though, was to add two Inkmoth Nexus. You are often in a position to one-shot someone by dropping a Liliana to make your Inkmoth 10/10.
Regarding tutors, I would be very happy to run 3 Ambition and 2 Revelation but I just can't fit them. So I use a 3/1 mix simply because you from time to time need to tutor something up on turn 5, and turn 6 is too late. The other argument for Ambition is that you sometimes desperately need to tutor even though you don't have complete control and run the risk of a counter. If feels so much better to play a flashback spell in those situations.
Also, regarding using 23 lands: the inflection point for us is 4 mana, when we can accelerate with Liliana and Solemns. For the purposes of getting to 4 mana, my list actually has 26 lands when you count the Pristine Talismans. I think that's the reason its been flowing so smoothly for me.
Speculating why I did so well yesterday: I didn't see that many control decks. When I did, or someone (Delver) brought in a bunch of counterspells, I struggled much more.
In addition, I run 3 Nihil Spellbomb main. I think they are a great fit for the current meta since they hit Delver, Zombies, Naya with Strangleroot geist, and all the Rites-based decks pretty hard. Worst case, you cycle them for B1 and side them out. I just don't see the downside.
I added two Inkmoth Nexus as wincons, and they have worked great. You can easily one-shot someone after turn 8 or so. Nine swamps on board and playing Liliana after verifying the absence of instant speed removal is all it takes.
So, it could just be me but asking for one more consume spirit in a deck with a curve like this doesn't seem far fetched. i mean seriously how many games do u consistently think that h will get to pop off a liliana ulti ? It seems as if u have a very rough understanding of the decks in the current meta.
You are a total and utter douchebag. You are destroying the cooperative spirit of these boards by publishing a list you had promised to keep secret. You are also pretending that you have been polite when you obviously haven't. Please take a break from these boards and come back when you have matured for a few years.
Beyond that, you are wrong. I played 10 matches on MTG yesterday with a decklist that's INS'. I won 7 matches, and used Liliana's ultimate in every one of the games I won. If you build your deck to win that way, it does.
My experience with Distress totally mirrors this. I also have additional one-mana discard in the SB when I know the matchup. I think up to 6 discard spells are fine. When I try to fit more I have to sacrifice too many other key cards.
This deck really wants to empty the opponent's hand with Karn and discard before we start trying to win.
EDIT: so that means that I will be taking discard out of the SB, and doing a proper sideboarding analysis this week. I have too much stuff that I can't fit into the deck when I sideboard, and I have too much stuff that I never use.
So much win here. People are actually saying you can win a CONTROL game without creatures!
Not sure if this is sarcasm?
In my mind there is a difference. In many control games that I've played or played against, the control deck has to race at least a bit. Even critters like Consecrated Sphinx are often used just as stop-gap or to draw 2 extra cards and then eating removal.
That's different than this build, which just empties the opponent's hand and then can sit there and slowly build enough mana to one-shot them with Consume Spirit.
Maybe this is just the difference between counter-less control and vanilla UW control. I dunno, but it sure feels different. And better
I wouldn't get caught completely up on a creatureless build, I stomp those builds all the time just with 1 sideboard card: Witchbane Orb.
Yes you can get rid of it with Distress, but sometimes it sneaks through on turn 4.
I would recommend running at least 1 titan-esque finisher.
That's fair enough. The argument the other way is that a no-creature-build makes so many more cards dead than a one-creature-build. Also, Karn can remove the Witchbane Orb.
Not saying I know the right answer here at all, but I could also see a Sadbot beat face as a 12/12 with Lilianas help.
The good news with this build is that you can establish so complete control that the actual final way of winning in a way is less relevant.
Sorry, I misspoke - I actually have a set of Solemns in there, so its not entirely creatureless. I'm just as happy when they die though
Realized that I actually run a 2nd wincon in my SB: Sands of Delirium. I added it as a surprise in long, drawn-out mirrors, but with the amount of mana I have now, it can also work as a one-shot win.
Here is my current list. I'm not sure about the number of just about anything. Right now I'm feeling down on Sad Robots and up on discard. The SB is pretty much residue from my Trading Post build.
Very professional and smooth.
So, I'd be in favor of anything that reduces variance. This seems to be one way, so I'm supportive!
Thanks!
You went 6-0 but you don't think the deck is strong
I'm also struggling with what to do the first few turns. I think adding Despise could be part of the solution -- I'm always glad to see those.
I also strongly advocate Nihil Spellbomb main. Worst case, its a 2 CMC cantrip, but
1) There are so many matchups that use the GY for utility (anything with Snapcaster, Undying, Runechanter's pike, Moorland Haunt, or Unburial Rites) that you often get more.
2) Many turns we don't have enough to do with our mana anyway
Tonight I will try Sphere of the Suns out. It would be so much better to get to 4 mana on turn 3, than getting to 5 mana on turn 4 like we do with Pristine Talisman. If anyone can come up with a nifty way of resetting them, that would be incredibly helpful.
I'm also considering adding a Griselbrand or Grave Titan or somesuch. I find I usually empty my opponents hand before starting to beat anyway.
I'm doing OK vs. tokens with the list above (a bit tweaked to fit 3 Sign in Blood). I think the reason is that I run 3 Nihil Spellbomb and 6 sweepers main. From the SB I bring in 2 ratchet bomb and 3 Curse of Death's hold. The ratchet bombs actually hit their enchantments more often than their tokens.
My most troublesome matchup is Gx infect, which easily can one-shot us. They often run 8-of hexproof/protection from x, so you need a ton of spot removal to survive.
Regarding Ghost Quarter, I just added one to the SB for Kessig. I'd been using Karn for those, but I lost a bunch of games yesterday where I just couldn't keep up with the ramp and died before I could deal with it.
I'm not worried about Inkmoths since I'm running 3 Curse of D-H in the side.
Here is the tweaked list I've been trying out today.
4 Distress
Removal
2 Dismember
1 Geth's Verdict
1 Go for the Throat
4 Mutilate
1 Sever the Bloodline
1 Black Sun's Zenith
Accel
3 Pristine Talisman
3 Solemn Simulacrum
3 Gilded Lotus
3 Nihil Spellbomb
Tutor/Draw
1 Diabolic Revelation
3 Increasing Ambition
3 Liliana of the Dark Realms
Control
2 Karn Liberated
Win
2 Consume Spirit
Lands
20 Swamp
1 Buried Ruin
2 Inkmoth Nexus = win
1 Batterskull
3 Curse of Death's hold
3 Despise
1 Go for the Throat
1 Memoricide
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Sorin Markov
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Tragic Slip
I've been trying a version with 4 Sign in Blood over the last few days, and I have been very disappointed in the results. To keep a functioning curve with that many SiB, you need to use 1 CMC removal like Dismember. Contrary to what INS stated, when we are control, our most precious resource is life, which is the resource we spend to gain time to take control. I felt that the life cost of those spells made a real difference, and forced me to make inefficient plays just to stay alive.
One huge improvement I made though, was to add two Inkmoth Nexus. You are often in a position to one-shot someone by dropping a Liliana to make your Inkmoth 10/10.
Regarding tutors, I would be very happy to run 3 Ambition and 2 Revelation but I just can't fit them. So I use a 3/1 mix simply because you from time to time need to tutor something up on turn 5, and turn 6 is too late. The other argument for Ambition is that you sometimes desperately need to tutor even though you don't have complete control and run the risk of a counter. If feels so much better to play a flashback spell in those situations.
Also, regarding using 23 lands: the inflection point for us is 4 mana, when we can accelerate with Liliana and Solemns. For the purposes of getting to 4 mana, my list actually has 26 lands when you count the Pristine Talismans. I think that's the reason its been flowing so smoothly for me.
I look forward to the continuing debate!
In addition, I run 3 Nihil Spellbomb main. I think they are a great fit for the current meta since they hit Delver, Zombies, Naya with Strangleroot geist, and all the Rites-based decks pretty hard. Worst case, you cycle them for B1 and side them out. I just don't see the downside.
I added two Inkmoth Nexus as wincons, and they have worked great. You can easily one-shot someone after turn 8 or so. Nine swamps on board and playing Liliana after verifying the absence of instant speed removal is all it takes.
You are a total and utter douchebag. You are destroying the cooperative spirit of these boards by publishing a list you had promised to keep secret. You are also pretending that you have been polite when you obviously haven't. Please take a break from these boards and come back when you have matured for a few years.
Beyond that, you are wrong. I played 10 matches on MTG yesterday with a decklist that's INS'. I won 7 matches, and used Liliana's ultimate in every one of the games I won. If you build your deck to win that way, it does.
Why - could you elaborate? I have four cards that draw more than two.
Nope - as long as I get to three lands I'm off to the races. I haven't had any issues with getting there (yet).
This deck really wants to empty the opponent's hand with Karn and discard before we start trying to win.
EDIT: so that means that I will be taking discard out of the SB, and doing a proper sideboarding analysis this week. I have too much stuff that I can't fit into the deck when I sideboard, and I have too much stuff that I never use.
Not sure if this is sarcasm?
In my mind there is a difference. In many control games that I've played or played against, the control deck has to race at least a bit. Even critters like Consecrated Sphinx are often used just as stop-gap or to draw 2 extra cards and then eating removal.
That's different than this build, which just empties the opponent's hand and then can sit there and slowly build enough mana to one-shot them with Consume Spirit.
Maybe this is just the difference between counter-less control and vanilla UW control. I dunno, but it sure feels different. And better
That's fair enough. The argument the other way is that a no-creature-build makes so many more cards dead than a one-creature-build. Also, Karn can remove the Witchbane Orb.
Not saying I know the right answer here at all, but I could also see a Sadbot beat face as a 12/12 with Lilianas help.
The good news with this build is that you can establish so complete control that the actual final way of winning in a way is less relevant.
Realized that I actually run a 2nd wincon in my SB: Sands of Delirium. I added it as a surprise in long, drawn-out mirrors, but with the amount of mana I have now, it can also work as a one-shot win.
Here is my current list. I'm not sure about the number of just about anything. Right now I'm feeling down on Sad Robots and up on discard. The SB is pretty much residue from my Trading Post build.
3 Distress
Removal
2 Go for the Throat
1 Geth's Verdict
4 Mutilate
2 Black Sun's Zenith
Accel
3 Pristine Talisman
4 Solemn Simulacrum
3 Gilded Lotus
3 Nihil Spellbomb
Tutor
1 Diabolic Revelation
3 Increasing Ambition
PW
3 Liliana of the Dark Realms
2 Karn Liberated
Win
2 Consume Spirit
1 Sands of Delirium
Lands
22 Swamp
1 Buried Ruin
3 Curse of Death's Hold
1 Go for the Throat
1 Batterskull
2 Duress
1 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Despise
2 Lashwrithe
2 Tragic Slip