I'm new to modern and right now my local meta is dominated by a lot of rock decks and we do have some twin players, so i was wondering what Zoo would be best to build for that?
Zoo is not ideal for that type of meta but if you were going to play any zoo big zoo would be the way to go. If you go back within the last few pages there are some good builds. Small zoo really doesn't do well against abzan game 1. Game 2 if your running moon and it doesn't get snagged you can be ok. Against the collected company I think Big Zoo will have better game 1. All games 2-3 will depend on how you board but I think big zoo is way to go against anything abzan as I play a lot of small zoo and its really uphill.
So I cut the 2 chokes from my board in favor of 2 gaddock Teeg. I realized our delver matchup isn't really bad, merfolk same, and control not really rampant atm. Teeg hits control, but more importantly hits a lot of other decks that are difficult for us. So to summarize my board will look like this:
I've turned my attention away from Legacy Zoo and back to playing Zoo in modern and i'm at this point not quite sure about the list i want to play. But one thing is for sure, it's gonna be a Fast Zoo build and besides that i really like the new card Atarka's command from the latest set and think it fits in quite well. What do you guys think?
I could really need some feedback for this suggested build, i'm going to attend a GP Trial 2 weeks from now. So it would be much appriciated with some feedback in order to improve the list before that if needed, Thanks.
I really like the concept of Tribal flames to give the deck reach but I think you need to decide which type of deck your playing. Either fast zoo which your list suggests or Tribal Zoo. It doesn't make sense to hinder your mana base and not take advantage of the cards that make running the risky manabase worth it. Tribal Zoo isn't really tribal zoo without geist. You are really much closer to fast zoo than anything else. You don't run enough mana, on a straight 1 drop build you would run 20. Here you run a lot of 2 casting cost cards and I think 21 is the way to go and I think most people would agree. If you look at my mana base that would be something for a Naya list. I think the advantage of playing Naya means you can run bloodmoon which is probably one of the most powerful cards in the sideboard atm. If it wasn't powerful then I would be playing Tribal Zoo lol. Just some food for thought.
I am curious how your testing has gone because I'm always looking for that card to give the deck reach like the fireblast of legacy
I reaaaaaally have a thing against Steppe, but it's been a while... so I guess it's time to find out if we'll be able to be friends again.
I might not be running 100% with every single suggestion from everyone but I'm certainly factoring them in when shuffling the list around!
All the help has been much appreciated :)!!
So this is the deck I think I will be bringing to a large tournament in our area. I have been testing and tweaking and I think its along the lines of what you are trying to do. I am trying to optimize my board so feedback always appreciated.
I obviously need to make some cuts and decisions on which for what. As it stands I think 2 Pyroclasm, 2 Gryff, 1 stony silence, 1 revelry, 1 combust and the other 8.
Edit* also trying to make room for an extra gore-clan. I am not a huge fan of cutting path which most people have recommended for small zoo. I was thinking maybe a Helix.
If you are seeing burn decks, the mutagenic growth / eidolon route isn't stunning. 1-drop zoo seems better, with maybe steppe lynx, as it's the most explosive 1-drop we have access to.
Lynx is bad against anything that runs red. so definitely really bad against burn.
So I ran this list at my LGS for FNM. Went 3-0-1 and lost in top 8 but got some good info from testing for a bigger event which is what I was hoping to get.
Round 1 I played against R/W splinter twin with kiki and granmasters. Kind of a neat home brew was able to take it down because of the removal we run with good clock.
Round 2 was against Merfolk which I think is not a great match up from my experience playing against it in Legacy. If you have spot removal for the lords its not too bad but our pyro/fallout are useless and moon and thalia don't do much so its just a straight race essentially. I ended up winning this match because the guy piloting the deck was fairly new but I am almost sure if someone experienced was piloting it I would have lost. This deck becomes an easier match up for midrange Zoo but I could be wrong.
Round 3 - Bloomtitan This is essentially a straight race. Path to Exile was huge in this match up and Aven Mindcesor did some serious work. I really could've used a bloodmoon at any point in this match but was able to get by without seeing any.
Round 4 - Collected Pod. This deck is just as annoying as pod was with their finks and redcaps. I do not think this match up is very good for us and wished I would have kept my hushwings in the board. We ended up going to time here because game 1 was a stalemate for a while. I had a clock which was slow and path for this combo piece but I made a play error. Game 2 I rolled him. Game 3 went to time which I would have lost.
Top 8 - I play Bloom Titan again this time get really bad hands and am forced to mull. Game 1 I had to mull to 4 with 5 lander no threats, no land, no lander. Game 2 I kept a hand at 6 that was ok, had a grudge for amulet and a turn 1 drop which brought down to 8 but I never drew gas. Bloodmoon can single handedly win us this match especially if they summoner's pact and are forced to pass.
Overall the tournament was great testing. I had tweaked my board a bit for local meta so I think that Hushwing stays for larger tournament because Collected Pod is a deck and twin still running rampant. Smiter was lackluster and am going to try out KOTR instead with wolfrun. Grim is a house atm so he has earned his spot again. I am still unsure about Dromoka's Command, I think the card has some merits but the testing sample was small. Atarka's command mvp for sure, closed out so many games. I think pridemage goes back up to three in this meta. I am not sure relic is the right solution because of goyf but we definitely need some answers to the graveyard. Maybe scooze but I feel he is to slow for certain matchups.
If anyone has any thoughts on Dromoka's from their testing I would love to hear comments. I know lantern was trying it out but haven't heard anything since.
Hey Guys haven't been playing modern since new set came out. Seeing lots of new zoo decks so nice to see Zoo alive and well. I am still running my old list of 4x lion, ape, nactl, goyf,3x Pridemage, burn/removal, added in 3 smiters. I saw Lantern post a list similar to mine with 3 atarka's command and 2 dromoka's command as new additions so was curious if anyone's tested or been testing that build. Thinking of brining something similar to FNM as a prelude to large Modern event in a few weeks. Also what are peoples thoughts on Grim Lavamancer in the current meta, I am still running 2 but he was on the fence last I was testing because was lackluster just wondering what peoples thoughts were.
The deck needs a way to kill things it cant run over. Even historical zoo decks had something to deal with that, usually path. getting rid of a creature and smashing them for damage with a bunch of 2-3 dmg creatures is a lot better than a bolt to the face or needing to 2 for 1 yourself to get rid of a threat. Need to have a way to deal with goyf/rhino/affinity/twin/....ect.
I disagree. A Ghor-Clan'ed creature is going to kill anything. That said, I got a few games in today and was happy at 20 lands. One of the combinations of cards for that slot I am going to test is 2 path to exile in place of the land and 1 mutagenic growth.
I am not saying gore-clan cannot run over any creature but what do you do when your opponent has open mana... Not attack with your creature or attack and get 2 for 1 by his removal. Gore-clan is great but you cant play it as removal and sometimes path will keep you on the offensive.
The deck is somewhere in between Infect and Burn than it is closer to a traditional Zoo deck. Every card should be capable of killing the opponent.
The deck needs a way to kill things it cant run over. Even historical zoo decks had something to deal with that, usually path. getting rid of a creature and smashing them for damage with a bunch of 2-3 dmg creatures is a lot better than a bolt to the face or needing to 2 for 1 yourself to get rid of a threat. Need to have a way to deal with goyf/rhino/affinity/twin/....ect.
I posted a couple pages back about trying to get a small zoo working without gofy and maybe mixing in some Eidolon. I am going about 40-60 online right now and I would say about 50% of my wins are against jangity brews / one sided match-ups. Any advice to try and kick this up a notch. I'm trying to work on the main deck component first and sideboard as needed. Most of my trouble is against midrange still. Should I switch to 1 drop zoo, or phyrexian, even big zoo at this point. Or maybe it's my sideboard that now needs work. If so any recommendations at all would be much appreciated.
I really don't think Elspeth makes the cut. The 2 white is a little restrictive and getting 4 lands in general is pretty tough thus I can't reliably get her on turn 4 like I thought. Someone suggested Ajani Caller of the pride. I know the 2W is still present but but I think turn 3 is when I would need the extra edge. I think turn 4/5 is too late to try and come back with this deck.
I need some other utility card to prevent my opponent taking me into the midgame due to the lack of gofy.
Sorry for all the posts guys, had I known I would have just multi-quoted. If you are going to play white I would run loam lion as he is the ape counterpart. I was playing around with Jötun Grunt which I did not like with Goyf or Lavamancer but could work in your build. You could also look at going traditional agro and play a Gruul Zoo build that is just r/g. Just some different thoughts for you. Sideboard is also really important so post that as well when asking about deck cuz its a big part of the deck.
Sorry to post this out of nowhere but i'm toying around with a zoo list i call suicide zoo along the lines of phyrexian zoo list i saw pop up from here and there.
My question is: the junk MU is as bad as it looks? Or am i only disadvantaged because i usually attack the deck from different angles (control and/or combo) and i don't know how to deal with it aggro style? Also SB advice for the MU?
Thanks in advance!
I am trying to play a very aggressive variant. This is what I was planning on bringing out. For some specific choices:
Boros Charm: 4 to the face is always nice, and the indestructible has helped bail me out of some situation also.
Legion Loyalist: I want to try out having one of these around to slap down and basically say **** your lingering souls. Kinda want to see what comes out to play after the recent modern events with Lingering Souls being annoyingly common again.
Treetop Village: Helpful for the final push over the top. Enjoying slapping Legion Loyalist and then animating him during testing.
Thoughts?
Legion Loyalist could be interesting. I think he is a meta call where if your seeing losts of chump blockers could be great. Let me know how he works out for you.
Playing treetop village is a bad idea in a 4 colour deck. first it comes into play tapped and second only produces green. If it were 3 colour deck maybe you can get away with it but in an aggressive deck tap lands = slow = bad. Kessig is also going to be bad because it produces colourless mana. The cards would maybe be playable with Knight of the Reliquary in the deck. My recommendation is simple, keep your land base simple as you are already stressing it by playing 4 colours and no hierarch or birds to fix and you are playing aggressive deck so avoid tap lands. Horizon can work but you leave yourself with only 1 of each shock. Just food for thought.
Hey guys here is a list i am trying out tell me what you think and any changes you would make. Thalia seems great against pretty much every deck right now so im trying her main board. Abzan is the best deck right now so im playing 4 smiter to hedge against them. The rest of the list is pretty self explanatory.
I don't know if thalia in the mainboard will be as good as you think, but I'm curious to see it, i've never really tried. You have to be careful, in some situations having to pay 2 for a path can cost you the match.
As far as changes, I'd take out 1 arid mesa and 1 sacred foundry to replace it with utility lands (kessig wolfrun or horizon canopy or tectonic edge or ghost quarters, it really depends on you). Also, since you are clearly on a fast aggro plan I'd try to fit any number of boros charm (even just 2)
Your land base is fine. You could swap 1 forest for a horizon canopy. For the love of god don't play anything that produces colorless will just screw you up as most cards in the deck require 2 colour and not the same 2 colours for all cards. aka you want all three colours up and running asap.
Zoo is not ideal for that type of meta but if you were going to play any zoo big zoo would be the way to go. If you go back within the last few pages there are some good builds. Small zoo really doesn't do well against abzan game 1. Game 2 if your running moon and it doesn't get snagged you can be ok. Against the collected company I think Big Zoo will have better game 1. All games 2-3 will depend on how you board but I think big zoo is way to go against anything abzan as I play a lot of small zoo and its really uphill.
Also noticed my list said 61 cards but its 3 lion not 4. What you guys think of board. Suggestions/Comments always appreciated.
I really like the concept of Tribal flames to give the deck reach but I think you need to decide which type of deck your playing. Either fast zoo which your list suggests or Tribal Zoo. It doesn't make sense to hinder your mana base and not take advantage of the cards that make running the risky manabase worth it. Tribal Zoo isn't really tribal zoo without geist. You are really much closer to fast zoo than anything else. You don't run enough mana, on a straight 1 drop build you would run 20. Here you run a lot of 2 casting cost cards and I think 21 is the way to go and I think most people would agree. If you look at my mana base that would be something for a Naya list. I think the advantage of playing Naya means you can run bloodmoon which is probably one of the most powerful cards in the sideboard atm. If it wasn't powerful then I would be playing Tribal Zoo lol. Just some food for thought.
I am curious how your testing has gone because I'm always looking for that card to give the deck reach like the fireblast of legacy
So this is the deck I think I will be bringing to a large tournament in our area. I have been testing and tweaking and I think its along the lines of what you are trying to do. I am trying to optimize my board so feedback always appreciated.
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Arid Mesa
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
2 Temple Garden
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains
Spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
4 Atarka's Command
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Loam Lion
3 Goblin Guide
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Kird Ape
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Gore-Clan Rampager
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Blood Moon
2 Hushwing Gryff / Grafdigger's cage
2 Choke
2 Stony Silence / Ancient Grudge / Destructive Revelry
2 Combust
I obviously need to make some cuts and decisions on which for what. As it stands I think 2 Pyroclasm, 2 Gryff, 1 stony silence, 1 revelry, 1 combust and the other 8.
Edit* also trying to make room for an extra gore-clan. I am not a huge fan of cutting path which most people have recommended for small zoo. I was thinking maybe a Helix.
Lynx is bad against anything that runs red. so definitely really bad against burn.
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Arid Mesa
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
2 Temple Garden
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains
Spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
3 Atarka's Command
2 Dromoka's Command
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Loam Lion
3 Loxodon Smiter
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Kird Ape
2 Qasali Pridemage
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Blood Moon
2 Pyroclasm
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Choke
1 Ancient Grudge
Round 1 I played against R/W splinter twin with kiki and granmasters. Kind of a neat home brew was able to take it down because of the removal we run with good clock.
Round 2 was against Merfolk which I think is not a great match up from my experience playing against it in Legacy. If you have spot removal for the lords its not too bad but our pyro/fallout are useless and moon and thalia don't do much so its just a straight race essentially. I ended up winning this match because the guy piloting the deck was fairly new but I am almost sure if someone experienced was piloting it I would have lost. This deck becomes an easier match up for midrange Zoo but I could be wrong.
Round 3 - Bloomtitan This is essentially a straight race. Path to Exile was huge in this match up and Aven Mindcesor did some serious work. I really could've used a bloodmoon at any point in this match but was able to get by without seeing any.
Round 4 - Collected Pod. This deck is just as annoying as pod was with their finks and redcaps. I do not think this match up is very good for us and wished I would have kept my hushwings in the board. We ended up going to time here because game 1 was a stalemate for a while. I had a clock which was slow and path for this combo piece but I made a play error. Game 2 I rolled him. Game 3 went to time which I would have lost.
Top 8 - I play Bloom Titan again this time get really bad hands and am forced to mull. Game 1 I had to mull to 4 with 5 lander no threats, no land, no lander. Game 2 I kept a hand at 6 that was ok, had a grudge for amulet and a turn 1 drop which brought down to 8 but I never drew gas. Bloodmoon can single handedly win us this match especially if they summoner's pact and are forced to pass.
Overall the tournament was great testing. I had tweaked my board a bit for local meta so I think that Hushwing stays for larger tournament because Collected Pod is a deck and twin still running rampant. Smiter was lackluster and am going to try out KOTR instead with wolfrun. Grim is a house atm so he has earned his spot again. I am still unsure about Dromoka's Command, I think the card has some merits but the testing sample was small. Atarka's command mvp for sure, closed out so many games. I think pridemage goes back up to three in this meta. I am not sure relic is the right solution because of goyf but we definitely need some answers to the graveyard. Maybe scooze but I feel he is to slow for certain matchups.
If anyone has any thoughts on Dromoka's from their testing I would love to hear comments. I know lantern was trying it out but haven't heard anything since.
http://www.magicspoiler.com/mtg-spoiler/atarkas-command/
I am not saying gore-clan cannot run over any creature but what do you do when your opponent has open mana... Not attack with your creature or attack and get 2 for 1 by his removal. Gore-clan is great but you cant play it as removal and sometimes path will keep you on the offensive.
The deck needs a way to kill things it cant run over. Even historical zoo decks had something to deal with that, usually path. getting rid of a creature and smashing them for damage with a bunch of 2-3 dmg creatures is a lot better than a bolt to the face or needing to 2 for 1 yourself to get rid of a threat. Need to have a way to deal with goyf/rhino/affinity/twin/....ect.
Sorry for all the posts guys, had I known I would have just multi-quoted. If you are going to play white I would run loam lion as he is the ape counterpart. I was playing around with Jötun Grunt which I did not like with Goyf or Lavamancer but could work in your build. You could also look at going traditional agro and play a Gruul Zoo build that is just r/g. Just some different thoughts for you. Sideboard is also really important so post that as well when asking about deck cuz its a big part of the deck.
Post list always best for deck/sideboard advice.
Legion Loyalist could be interesting. I think he is a meta call where if your seeing losts of chump blockers could be great. Let me know how he works out for you.
Playing treetop village is a bad idea in a 4 colour deck. first it comes into play tapped and second only produces green. If it were 3 colour deck maybe you can get away with it but in an aggressive deck tap lands = slow = bad. Kessig is also going to be bad because it produces colourless mana. The cards would maybe be playable with Knight of the Reliquary in the deck. My recommendation is simple, keep your land base simple as you are already stressing it by playing 4 colours and no hierarch or birds to fix and you are playing aggressive deck so avoid tap lands. Horizon can work but you leave yourself with only 1 of each shock. Just food for thought.
Your land base is fine. You could swap 1 forest for a horizon canopy. For the love of god don't play anything that produces colorless will just screw you up as most cards in the deck require 2 colour and not the same 2 colours for all cards. aka you want all three colours up and running asap.