Hey guys. I've been playing with 3 Kira in my main for the longest time, but looking at MTG top 8, it seems to be dominated with red and very little white. In such a red-heavy meta, perhaps playing with Spellskite over Kira is the right play? I love Kira, but she is quite slow and Spellskite is very handy to have against the fast red decks. If I play with Spellskite, it means I can also afford to bump up my Cavern of Souls from 2 to 3. Thoughts?
What is a good deck to play? I'd really like to play a combo deck. Splintertwin seems strong against affinity, but weak to GBx. I don't think that Tron is my deck-style of choice, and I admittedly don't have the skill to play combo. I have a natural love for blue and would prefer a blue-based combo deck that would be good if one would work.
It has been great for me. I found 3 Emrakul's clunky. I used to run This list consistently goes off on turn 4, occasionally turn 3. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to go off on turn 3 a lot but I don't unless I get some lucky draws. Otherwise I'll usually find 1 combo piece by turn 2, and then dig my way into my 3rd on turn 3. I'll then cast it with counter back-up on turn 4. It is an extremely consistent plan, I very rarely go past turn 4. However, I'm concerned with whether that is good enough or not. How fast do you guys normally go? It isn't a case of adding more mana ramp, and adding more threats (like an Emrakul) wouldn't help because no matter what, I've only got 4 S&ts and adding Dream Halls wouldn't speed the combo up since that takes 5 to cast anyway.
I'm learning a combo deck for the first time (Omnitell) and I can immediately tell that sequencing my cantrips in the right way will be key to doing well with this deck and can potentially shave a whole turn off of my clock. Are there any good articles/videos out there that discuss the art of sequencing your cantrips?
I'd like to point out something interesting that Kikurek said in his recent stream for TeamWellPlayed. He said that he played 5 games against Affinity (piloted by Frank Karsten) and in each of them he put Hurkyl's recall in his starting hand. He lost 2-3. Take away from that what you will but I found that an interesting experiment.
I would 100% believe that an excellent pilot of affinity vs. an excellent pilot of merfolk even with a recall would win 3-2. Affinity is a big, big reason that Merfolk will be held back at GPs and things like that imho.
But local tournaments... affinity pilots often make mistakes
In the future I'd go with 4 Vaporsnags main and 2 dismembers main, then have some other piece of quasi-removal in the side (maybe echoing truth?)
Here were my match-ups:
R1 2-0 vs. Tezert Control
I thought my opponent was on affinity to start which was a little heart-breaking. It quickly became apparent they weren't. They basically did nothing, really in game 1. In game 2 they put up way more of a fight and tried to grind me out of creatures, which they almost did. But they used all of their resources to kill my dudes and so just 1 was enough to kill him in the end because he had nothing left for it.
R2 1-1 vs. RG Tron
I normally find this match-up easy. But in game 1 I played into an unexpected Aethersprout and basically just lost. In game 2 he just drew badly I think, I just drew lots of dudes and beat him down to oblivion. Funny I should say that though, because game 3 was a MESS. I drew a really slow hand but with TONNES of removal. I ended up play 3 spreading seas and 3 tectonic edges that game, just keeping him off of mana. But he drew 3 oblivion stones! It was really hard, I'd have to bait out his oblivion stone early and hold back disruption, then play the minimal amount required to keep him off of his mana... he did still get an Ugin out at one point though, haha.
In the end we went to time after a very grindy match. It could probably have gone either way, and some tight play in those final 3 turns could have clinched me the game probably.
R3 2-0 vs. Junk
My opponent just had really bad hands I think? They never drew removal and only played dudes. Turns out that if they only play dudes and I mostly only play dudes, well, my dudes beat their dudes. Spreading Seas here was MVP.
R4: 1-2 vs. UWR Control
I'm really bad at playing this match-up. Like, really bad. I probably need a lot of help from someone to tell me a) how to play it and b) how to sideboard. They just ALWAYS have removal and ALWAYS have sweepers and they hold me off until T8 or so when they then Revelation for huge amounts and it is absolutely 100% over at that point.
Game 1 I just got out attritioned then beaten to death. Game 2 was a really hard win etched out on my behalf. I got an aether vial and would vial in 1 dude at a time, forcing him to either kill it with single target removal or mass removal. I did this enough and ground him down until he eventually had to concede, and I'd spreading seas his manlands. Game 3 he played fast and crushed me, I probably played badly. Got beaten to death by his manlands. Basically I'm just terrible at this. But MOW was MVP here.
R5: 2-0 vs. Storm
I bounced their mana artifacts, and just beat them down with dudes. They never got to combo off.
I slipped into top 8 in #7 position. Here was what I played.
Quarterfinal: 2-0 vs. Burn
I played against a very skilled burn player. They just couldn't get there. I don't shock myself. Cursecatcher is really annoying for them. He couldn't deal with Master of Waves and MOW just killed him.
Semifinal: 2-0 vs. UWR Control
Phew, I was lucky to get out of this one so unscathed. Game 1 I played a Kira and that was it. Game. He never drew mass removal and just couldn't remove my dudes. In game 2 he had to mull and never found his red mana. I spell pierced his Wrath of God too. So nice to be able to actually counter that one! I beat him down very easily with no red mana on his side.
Final: 1-2 vs. Affinity
He won the dice roll. It was really tight, both of us were nervous and we both made big misplays. Recall was 100% the MVP here and my gosh it was great. I know how to have a chance with this matchup. My game plan needs to be this:
Turns 1-3 play dudes and/or spreading seas
Turns 3-4 Recall in their end step. Hold off until the last possible moment that I need to play recall.
Next turn, dump lords and then swing.
Next turn, dump more lords and get a spreading seas on the table, then swing for lethal.
Recall holds them off for 2 turns. Directly after recall they have nothing, leaving it prime swinging time IF I've played dudes turns 1-3. Then immediately after that they can't attack due to summoning sickness. So I get a second swing. And with spreading seas, they are unblockable and you can often hit for lethal. Or close.
I stuck to my plan in game 3 and almost won, just didn't draw what I needed in the final draw step (needed to be a lord or some sort of bounce) but that is OK. I'm still really happy with my affinity game plan!
Obviously if you don't draw a recall it is bad. But you can still win without it if their hand isn't the nuts.
Anyway my biggest take-away from this is that I don't know how to fight UWR control.
I don't like chalice anymore... there are other cards that answer the 1cc threats that are more flexible against lots of matches. In the Delver era it was amazing though. A lot of decks that get wrecked for it come prepared (infect brings in it's hate) and I find it is such an awkward tempo play, because I won't get anything on the ground until T3... especially if they just go ahead and destroy it.
I am torn on removing the Spreading Seas. You guys say to remove Kira... but she blocks their fliers. Infect is now BUG and has 8 fliers. I actually want to add in +1 Kira + +1 Vaporsnag but don't know what to take out for it.
I really like vapor snag over dismember. I know dismember kills the creature forever. But vaporsnag has always just worked best for me. Opponent resolves a fatty, I vapor it and swing for a huge amount of life and deal 1 dmg to them in the process... very painful for Tron to deal with (oh, you have a big lifegain wurm...? Who cares). It is a great tempo play. I play better with vaporsnag than I do dismember. It also means it isn't a dead card against control. And in some green match-ups I still prefer to vaporsnag my own lord in response to removal so that I can have 2 Lords + a SS in play to go under rather than over their Tarmogoyf. I also find it works better in the affinity match-up because taking 4 life is brutal in a race. It is much nicer to instead vaporsnag their archbound ravager target and let THEM take 1 life instead.
Really appreciate everyone's analysis. You know what sucks though? 4x Tectonic Edge, 4x Counters and 4x Hurkyls Recall makes up 12 slots in our sideboard. It only leaves 3... damn affinity.
Just wondering, am I the *only* person who has ever been tempted to play UB Merfolk running Thoughtseize for disruption? I know we have counters but Merfolk sometimes lacks a good T1 play so it gives us more things to do. It also let's us see how much removal we're up against in addition to removing a serious threat (like Lily or a combo piece). We could then play around it with cards like Kira to blank those cards and give us an advantage. Very painful though... if we do it blindly vs. affinity, Zoo or Burn we're probably dead.
Hey Nikachu your sideboarding advice was really helpful. Thanks
The bounce/removal may be a bit too much, but I just didn't really know what else to put there. It helps me interact with combo. I'd rather have bounce than counters because it helps in almost every match-up (as you said, it can counter removal by bouncing dudes to my hand) though it doesn't synergize well with Kira at that point. But if I have a Kira out, I'm usually more than happy.
In terms of "brown mana" I totally get you. The thing though for me is I've played with this mana distribution for over a year now and even with 3 Kira's it works for me, so I'm going to keep it for now but watch how often I get mana screwed just in case.
Scapeshift (same as UWx):
- 2 Echoing Truth
- 4 Vaporsnag
- 2 Phantasmal Image
+ 4 Tectonic Edge
+ 4 Spell Pierce (not for countering scapeshift, but to counter their removal)
Twin:
- 2 Phantasmal Image
- 3 Master of Waves (really unsure here, he just seems too expensive even though I know he'll be impossible for them to remove, surely I'll want to be keeping up interaction mana?)
+ 3 Dismember
+ 2 Spell Pierce (I feel like I should be siding in way more, but don't want to lower my threat density too much)
- Affinity (LOTS of affinity)
- Scapeshift
- GBx
What is a good deck to play? I'd really like to play a combo deck. Splintertwin seems strong against affinity, but weak to GBx. I don't think that Tron is my deck-style of choice, and I admittedly don't have the skill to play combo. I have a natural love for blue and would prefer a blue-based combo deck that would be good if one would work.Budget isn't a concern.
On a different note, I've been playtesting with this list:
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Instants (19)
3 Flusterstorm
4 Brainstorm
3 Cunning Wish
3 Dig Through Time
4 Force of Will
2 Intuition
Sorceries (15)
4 Preordain
3 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
4 Show and Tell
4 Omniscience
Lands (19)
2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
4 Polluted Delta
3 City of Traitors
4 Flooded Strand
6 Island
1 Release the Ants
1 Firemind's Foresight
2 Faerie Macabre
3 Spell Pierce
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Dig Through Time
1 Echoing Truth
1 Noxious Revival
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Trickbind
1 Pognify
1 Cunning Wish
It has been great for me. I found 3 Emrakul's clunky. I used to run This list consistently goes off on turn 4, occasionally turn 3. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to go off on turn 3 a lot but I don't unless I get some lucky draws. Otherwise I'll usually find 1 combo piece by turn 2, and then dig my way into my 3rd on turn 3. I'll then cast it with counter back-up on turn 4. It is an extremely consistent plan, I very rarely go past turn 4. However, I'm concerned with whether that is good enough or not. How fast do you guys normally go? It isn't a case of adding more mana ramp, and adding more threats (like an Emrakul) wouldn't help because no matter what, I've only got 4 S&ts and adding Dream Halls wouldn't speed the combo up since that takes 5 to cast anyway.
BUG Delver
Burn
Affinity
Deathblade
MUD
Miracles
Reanimator
Maverick
Lands
4x Lord of Atlantis
4x Master of the Pearl Trident
2x Master of waves
2x Merrow Reejerey
4x Silvergill Adept
4x Cursecatcher
2x Phantasmal Image
3x Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
3x Master of Waves
4x AEther Vial
4x Vapor Snag
4x Spreading Seas
2x Dismember
2x Vapor Snag
Lands
4x Mutavault
2x Cavern of Souls
1x Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1x Minamo, School at Water's Edge
12x Island
3x Tectonic Edge
4x Hurklys Recall
2x Tidebinder Mage
1x Dismember
3x Spell Pierce
2x Spellskite
These were my match-ups:
Game 1: Abzan 2-1
Game 2: Twin 2-1
Game 3: Vengevine Dredge 1-1 (first time playing against this deck)
Game 4: UWR Control 2-0
I would 100% believe that an excellent pilot of affinity vs. an excellent pilot of merfolk even with a recall would win 3-2. Affinity is a big, big reason that Merfolk will be held back at GPs and things like that imho.
But local tournaments... affinity pilots often make mistakes
4 Cursecatcher
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
2 Tidebinder Mage
3 Reejery
3 Kira
3 Master of Waves
3 Dismember
3 Vaporsnag
4 Aether Vial
4 Spreading Seas
LANDS
12 Island
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Oboro
1 Minamo
4 Mutavault
3 Tectonic Edge
3 Spell Pierce
2 Tidebinder Mage
2 Spellskite
1 Vaporsnag
4 Hurkyls Recall
In the future I'd go with 4 Vaporsnags main and 2 dismembers main, then have some other piece of quasi-removal in the side (maybe echoing truth?)
Here were my match-ups:
R1 2-0 vs. Tezert Control
I thought my opponent was on affinity to start which was a little heart-breaking. It quickly became apparent they weren't. They basically did nothing, really in game 1. In game 2 they put up way more of a fight and tried to grind me out of creatures, which they almost did. But they used all of their resources to kill my dudes and so just 1 was enough to kill him in the end because he had nothing left for it.
R2 1-1 vs. RG Tron
I normally find this match-up easy. But in game 1 I played into an unexpected Aethersprout and basically just lost. In game 2 he just drew badly I think, I just drew lots of dudes and beat him down to oblivion. Funny I should say that though, because game 3 was a MESS. I drew a really slow hand but with TONNES of removal. I ended up play 3 spreading seas and 3 tectonic edges that game, just keeping him off of mana. But he drew 3 oblivion stones! It was really hard, I'd have to bait out his oblivion stone early and hold back disruption, then play the minimal amount required to keep him off of his mana... he did still get an Ugin out at one point though, haha.
In the end we went to time after a very grindy match. It could probably have gone either way, and some tight play in those final 3 turns could have clinched me the game probably.
R3 2-0 vs. Junk
My opponent just had really bad hands I think? They never drew removal and only played dudes. Turns out that if they only play dudes and I mostly only play dudes, well, my dudes beat their dudes. Spreading Seas here was MVP.
R4: 1-2 vs. UWR Control
I'm really bad at playing this match-up. Like, really bad. I probably need a lot of help from someone to tell me a) how to play it and b) how to sideboard. They just ALWAYS have removal and ALWAYS have sweepers and they hold me off until T8 or so when they then Revelation for huge amounts and it is absolutely 100% over at that point.
Game 1 I just got out attritioned then beaten to death. Game 2 was a really hard win etched out on my behalf. I got an aether vial and would vial in 1 dude at a time, forcing him to either kill it with single target removal or mass removal. I did this enough and ground him down until he eventually had to concede, and I'd spreading seas his manlands. Game 3 he played fast and crushed me, I probably played badly. Got beaten to death by his manlands. Basically I'm just terrible at this. But MOW was MVP here.
R5: 2-0 vs. Storm
I bounced their mana artifacts, and just beat them down with dudes. They never got to combo off.
I slipped into top 8 in #7 position. Here was what I played.
Quarterfinal: 2-0 vs. Burn
I played against a very skilled burn player. They just couldn't get there. I don't shock myself. Cursecatcher is really annoying for them. He couldn't deal with Master of Waves and MOW just killed him.
Semifinal: 2-0 vs. UWR Control
Phew, I was lucky to get out of this one so unscathed. Game 1 I played a Kira and that was it. Game. He never drew mass removal and just couldn't remove my dudes. In game 2 he had to mull and never found his red mana. I spell pierced his Wrath of God too. So nice to be able to actually counter that one! I beat him down very easily with no red mana on his side.
Final: 1-2 vs. Affinity
He won the dice roll. It was really tight, both of us were nervous and we both made big misplays. Recall was 100% the MVP here and my gosh it was great. I know how to have a chance with this matchup. My game plan needs to be this:
Recall holds them off for 2 turns. Directly after recall they have nothing, leaving it prime swinging time IF I've played dudes turns 1-3. Then immediately after that they can't attack due to summoning sickness. So I get a second swing. And with spreading seas, they are unblockable and you can often hit for lethal. Or close.
I stuck to my plan in game 3 and almost won, just didn't draw what I needed in the final draw step (needed to be a lord or some sort of bounce) but that is OK. I'm still really happy with my affinity game plan!
Obviously if you don't draw a recall it is bad. But you can still win without it if their hand isn't the nuts.
Anyway my biggest take-away from this is that I don't know how to fight UWR control.
Here is my current decklist/sideboard:
4 Cursecatcher
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
2 Tidebinder Mage
3 Reejery
3 Kira
3 Master of Waves
3 Dismember
3 Vaporsnag
4 Aether Vial
4 Spreading Seas
LANDS
11 Island
3 Cavern of Souls
1 Oboro
1 Minamo
4 Mutavault
3 Tectonic Edge
3 Spell Pierce
1 Kira
1 Master of Waves
2 Spellskite
1 Vaporsnag
4 Hurkyls Recall
Against infect my plan is to go:
- 3 Master of Waves
- 2 Reejery
+ 2 Spell Pierce
+ 2 Spellskite
I am torn on removing the Spreading Seas. You guys say to remove Kira... but she blocks their fliers. Infect is now BUG and has 8 fliers. I actually want to add in +1 Kira + +1 Vaporsnag but don't know what to take out for it.
Just wondering, am I the *only* person who has ever been tempted to play UB Merfolk running Thoughtseize for disruption? I know we have counters but Merfolk sometimes lacks a good T1 play so it gives us more things to do. It also let's us see how much removal we're up against in addition to removing a serious threat (like Lily or a combo piece). We could then play around it with cards like Kira to blank those cards and give us an advantage. Very painful though... if we do it blindly vs. affinity, Zoo or Burn we're probably dead.
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
2 Merrow Reejery
3 Kira
3 Master of Waves
4 x Thoughtseize
4 x Aether Vial
4 x Spreading Seas
4 Spell Pierce
3 Dismember
4 Hurkyl's Recall
The bounce/removal may be a bit too much, but I just didn't really know what else to put there. It helps me interact with combo. I'd rather have bounce than counters because it helps in almost every match-up (as you said, it can counter removal by bouncing dudes to my hand) though it doesn't synergize well with Kira at that point. But if I have a Kira out, I'm usually more than happy.
In terms of "brown mana" I totally get you. The thing though for me is I've played with this mana distribution for over a year now and even with 3 Kira's it works for me, so I'm going to keep it for now but watch how often I get mana screwed just in case.
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
2 Phantasmal Image
2 Merrow Reejery
3 Kira
3 Master of Waves
4 x Vapor Snag
2 x Echoing Truth
4 x Aether Vial
4 x Spreading Seas
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Mutavault
1 Oboro, Palace In The Clouds
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
4 Spell Pierce
3 Dismember
4 Hurkyl's Recall
Here is my sideboarding plan:
Affinity
- 2 Echoing Truth
- 3 Master of Waves
- 1 Spreading Seas
+ 4 Hurkyl's Recall
+ 2 Dismember
BGx Decks
- 4 Aether Vial
+ 3 Dismember
+ 1 Spell Pierce (maybe this is bad? I hate playing without vials)
Burn
- 2 Echoing Truth
- 2 Vaporsnag
+ 4 Spell Pierce
Tron
- 2 Echoing Truth
- 2 Vaporsnag
+ 4 Tectonic Edge
UWx
- 2 Echoing Truth
- 4 Vaporsnag
- 2 Phantasmal Image
+ 4 Tectonic Edge
+ 4 Spell Pierce
Scapeshift (same as UWx):
- 2 Echoing Truth
- 4 Vaporsnag
- 2 Phantasmal Image
+ 4 Tectonic Edge
+ 4 Spell Pierce (not for countering scapeshift, but to counter their removal)
Twin:
- 2 Phantasmal Image
- 3 Master of Waves (really unsure here, he just seems too expensive even though I know he'll be impossible for them to remove, surely I'll want to be keeping up interaction mana?)
+ 3 Dismember
+ 2 Spell Pierce (I feel like I should be siding in way more, but don't want to lower my threat density too much)
Merfolk Mirror
- 3 Kira
+ 3 Dismember
I'd appreciate any thoughts if anyone has any