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  • posted a message on Muldrotha, Value Elemental
    Whole bunch of good cards there. Honestly there short answer is some of them have better copies in my deck already, for example Seal of Primordium is a better Caterpillar, and Intuition is a better Buried Alive. Some aren't there because I couldn't find room but would like to, like Elephant Grass and Deadbridge Chant. And finally, some of them just aren't good enough at the end of the day like Journey to Eternity or Victimize.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Muldrotha, Value Elemental
    Quote from Ryperior74 »
    Why isn't the gitrog monster on your list?

    It combos with the sac lands.


    I mean, yeah Gitrog combos with some of the lands, but I don't seem him as too fantastic a card. Sure, maybe he's better than something like Wayword Swordtooth, and I'll figure that out through testing. Right now he's definitely a card I am considering for inclusion in the deck at a later date however.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Muldrotha, Value Elemental
    Quote from Phaenx »
    Thoughts on Birthing Pod? Would seem to be a really good fit for this toolbox style


    Birthing Pod can definitely work extremely well in this deck. I'm planning on putting it in my list as soon as I can find a card to cut for it. Just haven't found space for it at the moment :p
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 16/04/2018)
    Quote from Pistallion »
    I really think the "Solitare Format" idea is super disingenuous and was much worse earlier in Modern's lifespan than it is now.


    I will 100% concede that we are in a much better place now.

    And yes, Modern was definitely a lot worse in it's earlier years when things like Rite of Flame and Blazing Shoal were legal.

    I still hold however, that Modern as a format is a lot more solitaire like without the existence of Twin.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 16/04/2018)
    Quote from alanyuan0408 »
    However, I will include that the banning did come with some issue:

    1) The Twin deck was favored against all the non-interactive decks and prior to the banning, non-interactive decks would struggle against either Jund/ Twin and the two decks together were effective at policing the linear modern format. The banning did completely break the format and eventually wizards needed to weaken both Infect and Dredge.


    I honestly think this is my biggest issue with the Twin ban, and not because I dislike non-interactive decks (I play KCI Combo). With banning Twin one of the two decks that helped keep Modern interesting was removed from the format, and as such the format kind of devolved into who a contest of who can do the most unfair thing while pretending your opponent doesn't exist. It because less a format of matching powerful decks against each other, and more a format of who is better at playing solitaire the fastest.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 16/04/2018)
    So following the past few comments....

    Would Twin as an overall strategy be more palatable to people if the deck no longer had the ability to tap your lands at the end of turn with Pestermite or Deceiver Exarch? Is the problem, not so much the Twin combo, but the fact that the two main creatures for it have the ability to cut you off of any way to respond to it?
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 16/04/2018)
    Quote from Arkmer »
    I've never played Twin, never played Kiki-combo, but why is the difference of R that huge of a difference? I can understand the difference between T4 and T5, I get the creature vs aura, but was that enough to really pigeon hole the deck? I'm sure the answer is "Yes, that really screwed the deck", but is Kiki-combo being basically nonexistent not a sign that Twin would also not be an overbearing deck?

    Again... Pretty neutral about Twin, never played it, never played kiki.


    The difference is more than just the addition of a red mana. Kiki-Jiki is also a creature, making him susceptible to more removal that Twin would be open to. Additionally, the 5th mana does make a huge difference as there are a lot of ways to stop the combo, and progress your own board when you have 4 mana. For example you could play a Taromogoyf and hold up Abrupt Decay, however you could not do that on 3 mana, so you would effectively have to play your third land and pass, basically letting your opponent make your turn 3 useless just from the sheer threat of having the Twin combo.

    Quote from pierrebai »


    I'd be okay to unban twin if you ban the exarch *and* the faerie. Remove the flash element, make the combo entirely sorcery speed, and it would be fine. Having a two-cards combos with one-half being instant-speed, EOT, makes it a bit too good. I don't think there is another combo deck that is so lean and has one half be EOT in the top two tiers of modern.


    Well, technically even if you ban Exarch and Pestermite the combo can still be done with an instant speed creature on turn 3 in the form of Village Bell-Ringer or Bounding Krasis. However I think the important thing about these two creatures is they don't let you tap your opponents lands, meaning you can't cut your opponent off of the removal spell they were holding up.

    Quote from Pistallion »
    15% of the format is still probably double what the #1 deck, Humans, is right now. If a deck must pass the "Twin Test" then that is the very definition of format warping. That is why Pod and Twin were banned. I agree very much so with pierrebai when he says Twin is just a more oppressive Storm. Most non tiered decks can't beat Storm. However, Storm has so much easier hate cards to play so that "new" decks can have game against it. Twin does not have this problem at all.


    I think Pod was banned not for format warping reasons, but because it's mere existence limited what kind of creatures WotC could print in the future. It's kind of like how if Stoneforge was unbanned WotC would have to be mindful of any potentially powerful Equipment they may want to print in the future. Yet creatures are a lot more prevalent and pushed than Equipment, so Pod had to get the axe.

    As for the format warping bit, while I do agree that the "Twin Test" is 100% the definition of format warping, I do not necessarily believe that is a bad thing. Not in a broad sense anyway. If the way Twin would warp the format would be that of the 75 most played decks, 15 of them are now worse because they have a new really bad match-up, well how is that any different from a new archtype emerging from a new set and pushing a deck out of the meta? Not everything should be allowed to exist for high competitive play. If however the warping of Twin's existence pushed out say, all but 15 decks, well yeah that is definitely too much and Twin is a mistake that needs to be fixed.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 16/04/2018)
    Quote from shadowsaotome »
    1) That doesn't tell me why you think we need Twin back, only that you think it was the wrong choice of ban at the time.

    2) How so?

    3) I'm not completely sold on Fatal Push keeping Twin back, simply because making sure you can trigger revolt at any time so Push works on Exarch seems a bit daunting for some decks. It helps, certainly, but it's not a huge detractor.


    1) My reasoning for wanting Twin back was that it was the wrong card to ban. It's the same reason for years I wanted Bloodbraid Elf unbanned. When BBE was put on the banned list, Deathrite Shaman was the actual broken card that needed to go, not BBE. My argument is that Twin should be allowed back in the format because Exarch was the ban that should have been made, as opposed to banning Twin all together. By banning Exarch and not Twin, you cripple the deck a little bit, but you don't completely delete it from the Modern deck roster.

    2) I remember when Twin was legal. There were plenty of decks I wanted to play in Modern, but honestly I discounted most of them because they couldn't pass the 'Twin Test'. One complaint that people have about Modern is just how wide open the field is. You could play 15 rounds at a GP and not see the same deck twice. Now a lot of people call this a benefit, since it means Modern is a format where people can play whatever deck they would like to be playing. When Twin was around the deck diversity was a lot more narrow. This was mainly due to the fact that if your deck couldn't beat Twin, you normally wouldn't play that deck, since Twin was one of the most played decks in the format (despite being I think like only 15% of the meta). Personally I enjoy the diversity of the meta when it comes to playing Modern casually. I get to experience more decks, and have more interesting interactions. However competitively, I'd prefer if the field was narrowed down just a little bit. And I'm not talking Standard levels of there being maybe 5 or so playable decks. But if the numbers of different decks I could be expected to play against at a GP were to go from say 75 down to 60, I would not be complaining.

    3) Pointing back to my answer #1, my solution to unbanning Twin is to ban Exarch. And while holding up a way to trigger revolt for Push is something people would have to keep in mind, getting rid of Exarch would also help make cards like Bolt an actual answer to the combo.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 16/04/2018)
    Quote from shadowsaotome »
    I might regret this, but I'm hoping someone can give an answer without turning this into a dumpster fire:
    1) As simply as you can, why do we need Splinter Twin back in the format?
    2) Do you believe that the format will significantly benefit from having Twin off the banlist?
    3) In your eyes, if Twin did get unbanned, would it become a Modern 'pillar' again, or just another good deck?

    This isn't directed at anyone specifically, just for anyone who cares to answer. I personally dont have a dog in the fight, so to speak, I'm just curious.


    I am posted this as someone who never played Twin, and never plans on playing Twin.

    1) Because I believe the problem with the deck in fact was not the card Splinter Twin. Instead I believe the issue was that one of the combo creatures for the deck, Deceiver Exarch was a difficult creature to remove since at the time Lightning Bolt was essentially the premier removal spell of the format.

    2) Honestly, I think the format would benefit, however the issue becomes in how it benefits.

    3) It would definitely become a Modern pillar again, however the existence of new cards like Fatal Push could definitely help to keep it in check better than it was before.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on [Primer] Lantern Control
    Does anyone have a SB guide from recent times? I'm going to the front page to analyze it, but tonight is going to be the first time I try Whir Lantern. (only played BG twice)


    This is probably a few days late for you, but this article by Brian Brain-Duin at the end of last year is probably one of the best sideboard guides for Lantern I have seen. While it doesn't contain everything, it contains a good wealth of information to get the ball rolling to help you figure out how to sideboard for certain match ups. Hopefully this helps.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Muldrotha, Value Elemental
    MULDROTHA,
    VALUE ELEMENTAL

    Muldrotha is a commander that has the potential to be one of the most value oriented deck in the format. Her ability to let you reuse potentially your entire deck makes it feel like you're playing a deck not exactly in a singleton format. While some people's lists are pushing her as a great commander for a Stax-style deck (which she undoubtedly would be great for) I believe Muldrotha shines best when used as a way to wring as much value as physically possible out of every card in your deck.

    Infinite Value Combo


    What is an EDH Deck without some sort of infinite combo? A sad EDH deck that's what! Using the three cards above alongside Muldrotha results in a combo that nets you infinite mana, as well as infinite permanent recursion. Lets go over the steps and then explain how this works.

    Step 1: Cast Muldrotha, followed by Lion's Eye Diamond.
    Step 2: Crack Lion's Eye Diamond for UUU and recast it from your graveyard.
    Step 3: Cast Phantasmal Image, making it a copy of Muldrotha.
    Step 4: Sacrifice your original Muldrotha, placing her in the graveyard.
    Step 5: Crack Lion's Eye Diamond for BBB and recast it from your graveyard.
    Step 6: Cast Animate Dead to recur your Muldrotha, sacrificing your Phantasmal Image.
    Step 7: Repeat Steps 2-6 indefinitely

    This combo gives you infinite mana, since after step 7 you will still have UB floating, as well as infinite permanent recursion. Now why is this? The way Muldrotha's 'once per turn' clause works, is that every time a new Muldrotha enters the battlefield, it does not retain any of the information from previous versions. So when you cast Phantasmal Image in Step 4 and it becomes a Muldrotha, it doesn't count the creature or artifact you cast with the Muldrotha you are about to sacrifice. So every time you get a new Muldrotha in play, you are able to cast an entire new set of permanents from your graveyard. Just remember do save specific permanent types for the cards you need to continue the loop. It is also worth noting that you can't stack these effects up. So if you run through Steps 2-6 5 times, it doesn't mean you can recur 5 Planeswalkers immediately. You'll need to cast these cards from your graveyard before each time you go to put a new Muldrotha onto the battlefield.

    SUPREME VALUE CARDS


    Not all permanents are created equal, and some just give you so much potential value it seems silly not to run them in this deck. Below I've listed what I believe are cards that should be in every value oriented Muldrotha list, sorted by card type.

    Artifacts

    Birthing Pod - Now this one takes a bit of work to make it...well, work. You need to make sure you have enough creatures at various mana costs that either have good ETB or death effects (cards like Coiling Oracle or World Shaper). Sheoldred, Whispering One is probably a good top end for your CMC curve, and while she doesn't have an ETB or death trigger, she effects the board every turn which is great. Pod also gets extra value since you can recast creatures you've sacrificed, which keeps the value train rolling.

    Smokestack - Most artifacts for Muldrotha give you mana like Lion's Eye Diamond or Mox Diamond. Smokestack however is the exception. Not only are you playing a deck that lets you use Smokestack as a way to get extra value out of your cards by recasting them, but it is also a great way to slow your opponents down by taxing their resources as well. And once you get a few too many Soot counters on Smokestack, just sacrifice it to itself and recast the card to start the cycle all over again.

    Creatures

    Eternal Witness - Normally, Eternal Witness is amazing because it allows you to play one of your singleton cards a second time. Well, with Muldrotha you can just go crazy with this. With a sac outlet, you can put a Cyclonic Rift back in your hand every single turn. Truly, this is one of the best value cards in this deck.

    Mulldrifter - So you technically have an infinite number of Divinations in your deck with Mulldrifter. Have 3 mana to spare? Cool I'll draw 2 cards. Have 5 mana? Cool, I'll also get a 2/2 flier for me to block with, and when it dies I'll do it again next turn. With Mulldrifter, you should never really have an empty hand, even with using Lion's Eye Diamond.

    River Kelpie - This card fell under the radar for a lot of people (as well as an enchantment listed below) when early Muldrotha lists were coming out. Not only does it's Persist ability self recur itself for you once, but it draws you so many cards you might as well just pick your deck up off the table and put it in your hand. With a card like River Kelpie, I wouldn't blame you if you wanted to put a Laboratory Maniac in your list.

    Enchantments

    Mystic Remora - Everyone knows that Rhystic Study is one of the best card draw cards in EDH. While Remora is a little more restrictive in that it only triggers off non-creature spells, it's a lot harder to play around, with your opponents having to pay a whole 4 in order for you not to draw a card. Normally, the Cumulative Upkeep is a cost that keeps this card in check. But with Muldrotha, once the Upkeep cost is too high for your tastes, you can just sacrifice it, then recast it with a clean slate. In some ways this makes Remora so much better than Rhystic Study in a Muldrotha deck, even though Study is able to trigger off of any spell as opposed to just non-creature ones.

    Pernicious Deed - You have a bit of a threatening board state there. Here, I'll just blow up Deed with X equalling 5, then recast Deed in case I need it again later. Oh, and I am also able to get back all of my own cards that I just so happened to blow up. Oh, your stuff stays in the graveyard? That must suck. Honestly, I run cards like Damnation to make sure I have board clears, but with Pernicious Deed in your deck you really don't need many other ways to clear the board.

    Secrets of the Dead - This card is exactly like our good friend River Kelpie! And just like good ol' Kelpie this card flew under a few people's radar for early lists. Most of what I said with Kelpie applies to this card, though being an Enchantment does offer some differences. First and foremost it lets you be able to cast this and something like Eternal Witness on the same turn, netting you a made amount of value. Again I bring up the point that if you want to run Laboratory Maniac, I would not blame you.

    Instants

    Intuition - Now I know what you're thinking. "Muldrotha only recurs permanents, so why are we running non-permanent cards?" Well honestly, it's because some number of Instants and Sorceries are just too good too pass up. One such card is Intuition. Read the card carefully for a moment. You get to look for any 3 cards you want, 2 go to your graveyard, and the last one goes to your hand. Well since cards in our graveyard are essentially in our hand, Intuition lets you tutor up 3 cards and put them in your hand. So it's a triple Demonic Tutor. At Instant Speed. For only 2U. Need I say more?

    Lands

    Command Beacon - So Muldrotha costs 6 mana. Meaning eventually it's going to be a pain to cast her once the commander tax has built up. How about...no. Don't mind me, just going to casually put my commander in my hand, cast her for her standard casting cost, and then put Command Beacon back onto the battlefield. Oh, you plan on killing her for the 12th time? I can do this all day you know, and I'm not even paying all that much mana. I think you'll run out of removal before I run out of ways to cheaply cast Muldrotha.

    Strip Mine - This applies to any and all lands in your deck that blow up other lands. Having Muldrotha in play is like having a Crucible of Worlds on the battlefield. And anyone who has played Strip Mine or Wasteland with a Crucible in play knows just how ridiculous that is.

    Verdant Catacombs - Just like how Strip Mine applied to all the land destruction lands, this applies to all the fetch lands. Don't worry about mana trouble, since you get to fetch any and every colour you need! Do you need one more blue to do what you're planning on? Not to worry, you have a fetchland in your graveyard and it will get you the mana you require!

    Planeswalkers

    Liliana of the Veil - There are a lot of Planeswalkers that can give you extremely good value in a Muldrotha list. I don't think any of them are better than Liliana however. Sure Tamiyo, the Moon Sage will be good if she supports your build, but Liliana will always be good, no matter what else you have in your deck. The discard is not a hindrance for you, and don't worry about that opponent with a Uril, the Miststalker. We're rolling with this one straight to the bank

    DECKLISTS


    Below is my current list. Note that at the moment there are a lot of things I am testing with it, but I will be updating it as I get more testing done. If you have a list, post it below and I'd be happy to share it up here for all to see and enjoy Grin

    Muldrotha, Value ElementalMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Land (40):
    1x Bayou
    1x Bazaar of Baghdad
    1x Bojuka Bog
    1x Breeding Pool
    1x Cephalid Coliseum
    1x City of Brass
    1x Command Beacon
    1x Command Tower
    1x Drowned Catacomb
    4x Forest
    1x Geier Reach Sanitarium
    1x Gemstone Mine
    1x Glacial Chasm
    1x High Market
    1x Hinterland Harbor
    3x Island
    1x Mana Confluence
    1x Maze of Ith
    1x Misty Rainforest
    1x Myriad Landscape
    1x Opulent Palace
    1x Overgrown Tomb
    1x Phyrexian Tower
    1x Polluted Delta
    1x Reflecting Pool
    1x Strip Mine
    2x Swamp
    1x Tropical Island
    1x Underground Sea
    1x Verdant Catacombs
    1x Wasteland
    1x Watery Grave
    1x Woodland Cemetery
    1x Yavimaya Hollow

    Creatures (29):
    1 Birds of Paradise
    1 Deathrite Shaman
    1 Spore Frog
    1 Sylvan Safekeeper
    2 Baleful Strix
    2 Coiling Oracle
    2 Phantasmal Image
    2 Scavenging Ooze
    3 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
    3 Eternal Witness
    3 Ramunap Excavator
    3 Reclamation Sage
    3 Stinkweed Imp
    3 Tireless Tracker
    4 Archaeomancer
    4 Glen Elendra Archmage
    4 Oracle of Mul Daya
    4 Phyrexian Metamorph
    4 World Shaper
    5 Acidic Slime
    5 Golgari Grave-Troll
    5 Mulldrifter
    5 River Kelpie
    5 Shriekmaw
    5 The Gitrog Monster
    6 Kokusho, the Evening Star
    6 Noxious Gearhulk
    7 Sheoldred, Whispering One
    8 Razaketh, the Foulblooded

    Enchantments(13):
    1 Mystic Remora
    1 Sinister Concoction
    1 Vessel of Nascency
    2 Animate Dead
    2 Seal of Primordium
    2 Standstill
    2 Survival of the Fittest
    3 Monastery Siege
    3 Necromancy
    3 Pernicious Deed
    3 Secrets of the Dead
    5 Painful Quandary
    8 Decree of Silence

    Artifacts(7):
    0 Lion's Eye Diamond
    0 Lotus Petal
    0 Mox Diamond
    1 Sol Ring
    3 Commander's Sphere
    3 Oblivion Stone
    4 Smokestack

    Planeswalkers(3):
    3 Liliana of the Veil
    6 Vraska, Relic Seeker
    7 Garruk, Apex Predator

    Instants(4):
    2 Cyclonic Rift
    3 Forbidden Alchemy
    3 Intuition
    4 Fact or Fiction

    Sorceries(3):
    2 Life from the Loam
    3 Toxic Deluge
    4 Damnation


    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Muldrotha: The moldy stax [Retired]
    If you're looking to do Muldrotha Stax I have a few suggestions.

    Lethal Vapors - With Muldrotha on the board, this either kills every creature your opponents attempt to cast, or causes one of your opponents to lose their turn every turn cycle. In either instance I think this card is pretty sweet. And replaying it every turn when your opponents are losing turns to destroy it is just icing on the cake.

    Standstill - This card serves two purposes. First, it makes some of your opponents not want to cast spells, while also making your other opponents that get to draw cards thank you for the card draw. This helps alleviate a little bit of the hatred you'll get at the table for playing a Stax deck. And second, when you go infinite with Muldortha, LED, and Phantasmal Image, Standstill is your win condition as it allows you to just have your opponents deck themselves.

    Glacial Chasm - Don't play the cumulative upkeep, and just replay the land every turn. Never lose to damage. GGs friends.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Muldrotha, the Gravetide: Trying out this BUG reanimator thing.
    So, I've been theory-crafting a list and there are a few hilarious cards that seem like they'd be extremely good in Muldrotha.

    Lethal Vapors - Kill every creature until an opponent decides to skip their next turn. And then play it again once it's your turn.

    Pack Rat - Not only is this a great card to help you get cards into the graveyard, but is a veritable army. And being able to recur the main rat also lets this rodent army just keep coming back, and back, and back. Your opponent's better call an exterminator.

    Lion's Eye Diamond - First off, LED lets you cast Muldrotha on turn 3, which is great. You don't care about discarding your hand since you get to recast everything from the graveyard, and the insane mana acceleration you get from it makes it probably a mus-have in this deck.

    Snapcaster Mage - Running Snappy makes it easier to justify running Instant and Sorcery cards in a Muldrotha deck. Eternal Witness also helps in this regard. Honestly there are a lot of Instants and Sorceries that are just too good to pass up for this deck. Main of which is...

    Intuition - Have you ever wanted to cast a Demonic Tutor and grab 3 cards for you to use? At instant speed? Because that is literally what Intuition is in this deck. Triple Demonic Tutor, at Instant speed, for 2U. Yup, that's definitely fair.

    Forbidden Alchemy - Obviously cards that are good for a graveyard deck are going to be good here. I agree with wanting a heavy permanent theme in the deck, but not making room for cards like Alchemy, Mulch, or Grisly Salvage just seems like you're intentionally making your deck just a little bit worse.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Quote from SiegeDino »
    OMG in Greece the first 3 are 60 euros and explosives are like 35 euros


    Remind me to order cards from Greece, provided the shipping doesn't cost the $30/card I'd be saving :p lol
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Quote from SiegeDino »
    Also will it be Karn, Mox, Explosives , Bob or Cavern to cross first the hundred dollar mark? (thank God prices in Europe are lower)


    If you live in Canada, it's already all of the above except for Explosives, which is currently at $75. All the rest are floating around $120 up here Frown
    Posted in: Modern
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