I am only 25 but it still saddens me that I have to bring up the whole back in my day....back in my day we had balanced thematically strong decks that played well together had nifty combos and reprints of some old and cool cards.
Nowadays we get this, or speed vs cunning but I think both are on the same level. That level being aweful for anyone wanting to play magic. Allow me to explain while there is no arguing there is value in these decks. It That Betrays, Primal Command, Stirring Wildwood, Avenger of Zendikar are your cards.
But looking at the decks you see two decks that feel so badly constructed. The GW allies, landfall ,levelup is exactly how it sounds a mess of ideas. It really seems like a small child just opened 3 zendikar boosters up and stuck whatever matched those colors into his deck. The allies chosen are crap and do nothing, the landfall has hardly any ramp to help it and the landfall itself is weak abilites , and level up is extremely boring. Do I want to play Stonework Puma or would I rather play Oran-Rief Survivalist. Do I really have to play Caravan Escort if there is Hada Freeblade. I am not saying make a solely an allies deck but why bother to include allies if the deck shouldn't use them. Landfall and level up would of been fine. Landfall and allies would have been good but what we get is just some nonsense. For every nice thematic card that plays well there are about 3 Seer's Sundial or Makindi Griffin. Just saying some Emeria Angel,Steppe Lynx and maybe some Search for Tomorrow would of been awesome !
On the other side, is this Zendikar vs Vampires cause that is what its coming across as. I have less issues with this deck since most of the cards can be decent not sure why the decided to include some 7 mana kill cards in the way of Heartstabber Mosquito. I wont speak to much about the new mechanics just that people should realize we are going from Kozilek, Butcher of Truth to that. Doesn't come across as exciting, maybe in the set it will be but for now wow is that underwhelming and parasitic. Otherwise I just found it odd that so many good eldrazi cards are in green and it wouldn't have been to much effort to go jund colors. Also why do we need Butcher of Malakir isn't there more vampires or at least more rares out there that haven;t been printed.
So my final thoughts, value for people that just want to buy it for the rares and alternative artwork but no value for anyone else. Decks are terrible and feel weak, I always say when making these decks to make both of them stronger not weaker and in this case they went for weaker. For those that are going to shout at me saying I am not the target market this is for people that want to get into Magic I call bull***** since they have intro decks and the clash packs do a much better time in deck construction than these decks.
These decks are the height of Wizards ineptitude to make decks. No love has been put into these, no one ever during the design process said wait these look like crap. UGH!
I really don't fancy the decklists especially Elspeth with the Gustcloak creatures, from a flavor point of view I find that they don't link up, it seems like being foil and new art for Elspeth would be the only reason for me to be keen this DD set.
Haven't posted in a while but I thought I should share my opinion on the deck lists. Firstly a bit disappointing that they went with white weenie again for Elsepth Deck. They could of played something else I feel. The decklists are solid if a bit uninspiring. They are at least thankfully miles better than the garbage that was Speed vs Cunning and I find them to be on pair with Jace vs Vraska. Sadly it seems wizards is more content to let these be simple and let their clash packs be the tournament ready ones.
But this whole thing of being simply makes some cards feel like really odd additions. The whole Gustcloak group mechanic is quite confusing for new players. The cards don't add anything interesting to the decks and are poorly over costed.Surrakar Banisher seems like an weird card for Kiora. Also its a pity they didn't include some of Simics more cooler cards like Gaea's Skyfolk or Drakewing Krasis. Scourge of Fleets does nothing for me, its least interesting of the big sea creatures and was in a intro deck so even less hoorah for it. Maybe I am just disappointed that they didn't include some of the more fancy and cool cards that I listed in my Blog (see signature below). Kiora feels like it lacks theme, where is the high tide for quick ramp or the thematic tidal wave. Why does the deck need 4! Accumulated Knowledge when Ior Ruin Expedition does the job and works with Kiora's ramp. UGH!
Again decent decks, probably would give them a 60% pass rate but just could of been more. Elspeth's deck is just way better than Kiora's sadly.
Hey - What tokens are included? And are they double-sided, like in the recent commander product, or single sided with a Magic Card back?
They single sided.
Divine vs Demonic has a X/X demon token, multiply Thrall tokens and multiply spirit tokens
Elves vs Goblins has the 7/7 elemental token, tons of 1/1 elves and 1/1 goblins
Jace vs Chandra has a ton of 3/1 elemental shaman tokens
Garruk vs Liliana has bat tokens, 3/3 beasts, 4/4 beasts and 3/3 elephant all in multiply.
Do you think the individual decks will be available for sale from third-parties on eBay? I only really want Divine v Demonic and Jace v Chandra, and I don't feel like shelling out >=$100 for the whole package. Nor do I want to pay full price for the original printing of the decks, if I can avoid it.
Lilana comes with bat tokens which I believe are new.
Is it the bat token from Modern Masters?
Its possible but then its likely that only the recent garruk vs liliana will be on sale and people will keep the precious older ones :/ So I wouldn't expect people to be selling divine vs demonic for anything less than $50.
Lilana comes with bat tokens which I believe are new.
Elves vs goblins and divine vs demonic come with 3x as many tokens that the original printing.
The boxes that hold the cards are nice but are super crap at keeping closed. The dice are fancy yet hard to friend and come with the boring planeswalker symbol as oppose to the symbols for the decks.
No new artwork for any cards that I looked at.
Mine also came today Epic, can't bring myself to open it yet though.
Not sure why!
'
The trouble with the product is because the card value is extremely low, your only option are to keep it sealed and hope it becomes extremely wanted in like 20 years or get 7 friends together and try organize a game day where people play duel decks against each other.
The rule with Duel Decks has been to include one mythic rare (the face card), five rares, and a myriad of commons and uncommons in each deck. So unless that rule has changed, we can forget about Entreat the Angels, Devout Invocation, Primeval Titan, or any other Mythic non-Planeswalker card in EvK.
I should point out, not to raise anyone's hopes or anything but cards changing rarity is still a thing, cards typically change into mythic for example knight of the reliquary. However I think if the card is not to powerful to warrant being mythic and is ok to deal with in the closed environment that is duel decks then we could see Devout Invocation come out as rare, Entreat the Angels gets the maybe nod will see and Primeval Titan, unlikely.
Lilana comes with bat tokens which I believe are new.
Elves vs goblins and divine vs demonic come with 3x as many tokens that the original printing.
The boxes that hold the cards are nice but are super crap at keeping closed. The dice are fancy yet hard to friend and come with the boring planeswalker symbol as oppose to the symbols for the decks.
Just picked up one of these in South Africa for 1350 ZAR which is about $122 from my LGS.
Seems to be a good price after reading this thread.
Weird because, like Australia, we usually end up paying much more for things.
Cant imagine where you got it from (that was a x mas deal normal asking price was R1500) anyway considering the Rand is like R11 for $1 the pricing is quite good. I think this comes down to a lack of interest in South Africa , as almost no one is wanting to spend that much money on such a niche appeal item hence why the item already got a x mas discount.
I will freak if this happens especially since I have ordered 4 O.o
Hoarders and speculators are why we can't have nice things for decent prices. Core stores only get 5 and even Advanced Plus stores only get 12-15.
Don't really think I am a hoarder since duel decks are the only magic product I buy and I do open the box and play with the decks. hence my signature. I would have been way more happy if I didn't have to jump through loopholes just to get this product.
Bracing for the inevitable tears when someone gets 2 Garruk vs Liliana instead of Divine vs Demonic.
That's actually a good thing to point out, considering all the quality control issues the recent Commander products had, if I actually did buy this product I'd have someone record me opening it as proof for wotc in case what you mentioned does happen.
I will freak if this happens especially since I have ordered 4 O.o
Speed vs Cunning isn't the rule of power/value, it's the first deck with an EV LOWER than the MSRP on release, a disgrace to the product line.
We do not speak of that gut wrenching experience here.
Also for people talking about the art.
Since there 4 pieces we can assume each side gets 2. The one with Kiora in it and the high seas one seems most certainly to go into Kioras deck while the other 2 with the angels and the figure standing in front of some glyphs that would be in Elspeths deck. So I strongly doubt the last artwork is Archaeomancer cause it would stand to reason its for a white card. My $20 is still on it being Auramancer with the glowing hand and the serious need for an update in artwork, especially if Elspeth ends up being Enchantment focuses with the angel card being sigil of the empty throne
I am only 25 but it still saddens me that I have to bring up the whole back in my day....back in my day we had balanced thematically strong decks that played well together had nifty combos and reprints of some old and cool cards.
Nowadays we get this, or speed vs cunning but I think both are on the same level. That level being aweful for anyone wanting to play magic. Allow me to explain while there is no arguing there is value in these decks. It That Betrays, Primal Command, Stirring Wildwood, Avenger of Zendikar are your cards.
But looking at the decks you see two decks that feel so badly constructed. The GW allies, landfall ,levelup is exactly how it sounds a mess of ideas. It really seems like a small child just opened 3 zendikar boosters up and stuck whatever matched those colors into his deck. The allies chosen are crap and do nothing, the landfall has hardly any ramp to help it and the landfall itself is weak abilites , and level up is extremely boring. Do I want to play Stonework Puma or would I rather play Oran-Rief Survivalist. Do I really have to play Caravan Escort if there is Hada Freeblade. I am not saying make a solely an allies deck but why bother to include allies if the deck shouldn't use them. Landfall and level up would of been fine. Landfall and allies would have been good but what we get is just some nonsense. For every nice thematic card that plays well there are about 3 Seer's Sundial or Makindi Griffin. Just saying some Emeria Angel,Steppe Lynx and maybe some Search for Tomorrow would of been awesome !
On the other side, is this Zendikar vs Vampires cause that is what its coming across as. I have less issues with this deck since most of the cards can be decent not sure why the decided to include some 7 mana kill cards in the way of Heartstabber Mosquito. I wont speak to much about the new mechanics just that people should realize we are going from Kozilek, Butcher of Truth to that. Doesn't come across as exciting, maybe in the set it will be but for now wow is that underwhelming and parasitic. Otherwise I just found it odd that so many good eldrazi cards are in green and it wouldn't have been to much effort to go jund colors. Also why do we need Butcher of Malakir isn't there more vampires or at least more rares out there that haven;t been printed.
So my final thoughts, value for people that just want to buy it for the rares and alternative artwork but no value for anyone else. Decks are terrible and feel weak, I always say when making these decks to make both of them stronger not weaker and in this case they went for weaker. For those that are going to shout at me saying I am not the target market this is for people that want to get into Magic I call bull***** since they have intro decks and the clash packs do a much better time in deck construction than these decks.
These decks are the height of Wizards ineptitude to make decks. No love has been put into these, no one ever during the design process said wait these look like crap. UGH!
It annoys me more cause Gustcloak Savoir is already printed in heros vs monsters. So I dont understand why Wizards wants to keep pushing the same rares onto people? Also the slots could of been filled with cards like Benalish Commander, Unified Strike, Ballyrush Banneret, Conqueror's Pledge, Field Marshal, Preeminent Captain.
I always say you can make these decks stronger without needing to add monetary value.
But this whole thing of being simply makes some cards feel like really odd additions. The whole Gustcloak group mechanic is quite confusing for new players. The cards don't add anything interesting to the decks and are poorly over costed.Surrakar Banisher seems like an weird card for Kiora. Also its a pity they didn't include some of Simics more cooler cards like Gaea's Skyfolk or Drakewing Krasis. Scourge of Fleets does nothing for me, its least interesting of the big sea creatures and was in a intro deck so even less hoorah for it. Maybe I am just disappointed that they didn't include some of the more fancy and cool cards that I listed in my Blog (see signature below). Kiora feels like it lacks theme, where is the high tide for quick ramp or the thematic tidal wave. Why does the deck need 4! Accumulated Knowledge when Ior Ruin Expedition does the job and works with Kiora's ramp. UGH!
Again decent decks, probably would give them a 60% pass rate but just could of been more. Elspeth's deck is just way better than Kiora's sadly.
They single sided.
Divine vs Demonic has a X/X demon token, multiply Thrall tokens and multiply spirit tokens
Elves vs Goblins has the 7/7 elemental token, tons of 1/1 elves and 1/1 goblins
Jace vs Chandra has a ton of 3/1 elemental shaman tokens
Garruk vs Liliana has bat tokens, 3/3 beasts, 4/4 beasts and 3/3 elephant all in multiply.
Its possible but then its likely that only the recent garruk vs liliana will be on sale and people will keep the precious older ones :/ So I wouldn't expect people to be selling divine vs demonic for anything less than $50.
The bat token artwork is from modern masters.
The trouble with the product is because the card value is extremely low, your only option are to keep it sealed and hope it becomes extremely wanted in like 20 years or get 7 friends together and try organize a game day where people play duel decks against each other.
I think you just made , speed vs cunning, heros vs monsters, izzet vs golgari sad.
I should point out, not to raise anyone's hopes or anything but cards changing rarity is still a thing, cards typically change into mythic for example knight of the reliquary. However I think if the card is not to powerful to warrant being mythic and is ok to deal with in the closed environment that is duel decks then we could see Devout Invocation come out as rare, Entreat the Angels gets the maybe nod will see and Primeval Titan, unlikely.
I'm also pretty sure they still have jace vs vraska. $80 is a bit to drop of what somehow only turns out to be 8 planeswalkers.
Lilana comes with bat tokens which I believe are new.
Elves vs goblins and divine vs demonic come with 3x as many tokens that the original printing.
The boxes that hold the cards are nice but are super crap at keeping closed. The dice are fancy yet hard to friend and come with the boring planeswalker symbol as oppose to the symbols for the decks.
No new artwork for any cards that I looked at.
Cant imagine where you got it from (that was a x mas deal normal asking price was R1500)
Don't really think I am a hoarder since duel decks are the only magic product I buy and I do open the box and play with the decks. hence my signature. I would have been way more happy if I didn't have to jump through loopholes just to get this product.
I will freak if this happens especially since I have ordered 4 O.o
We do not speak of that gut wrenching experience here.
Also for people talking about the art.
Since there 4 pieces we can assume each side gets 2. The one with Kiora in it and the high seas one seems most certainly to go into Kioras deck while the other 2 with the angels and the figure standing in front of some glyphs that would be in Elspeths deck. So I strongly doubt the last artwork is Archaeomancer cause it would stand to reason its for a white card. My $20 is still on it being Auramancer with the glowing hand and the serious need for an update in artwork, especially if Elspeth ends up being Enchantment focuses with the angel card being sigil of the empty throne
Your a good man, I shall name my first child after you.
I still stand 100% by my previous thread with.
High tide , Decree of Justice , Auramancer, and temporal Spring