This is very similar to the deck I referenced in the OP. It might just be better all around deck. I always found that it wasn't fast enough though and you'd often have to choose between card draw or fog with the mana in play. Not that it's worse than this deck, but I've always hated playing cards like Words of Wisdom and Vision Skeins because they can be pretty harmful to cast, especially without a Jace's Erasure in play. Still, it may just be a better deck.
I'd like to see this deck work where you don't give them card draw, and emphasize always being able to fog by thinning out your lands and easily drawing fogs or card draw into more fogs.
Just a quick suggestion - in pauper, Rampant Growth is strictly better than Farseek (since there are no duals with basic land types). Sakura Tribe Elder is better still, since you can chump one attacker with it for one turn and then sac to go get your land.
This is a good point for sure. Forgot about Rampant Growth.
I used to play this sort of bant turbofog deck which was primarily card draw and and Jace's Erasure, just for fun. I started building that deck and I stumbled upon Dreadwaters. The original deck had no ramp, but lots of card draw, and needed to run quite a few lands to get to fogs quickly enough in 3 colors. I built around the core of fogs and card draw, but added some ramp and fixing. The result gets to fogging quickly, thins out the deck, and starts drawing gas. Keep in mind I'm pretty novice, I'm just trying to put together a 60 card list, and figure out a deck to measure matchups with for sideboarding.
I've actually been doing pretty well with this deck against decks which don't employ hand disruption, but I'm only playing in Just For Fun. I just thought I'd shoot it out there and see if there's anything that takes this into Tournament Practice.
Monoblue matchup sucks. Mono black matchup with lots of disruption sucks. But I've been surviving a lot of aggro decks and that enchantments deck is totally powerless. I will mulligan for a Farseek depending on the hand, but once a Forest and Plains are in play you can generally start fogging pretty quickly.
By the time you cast a Cultivate A third of your lands might be out of your library. Every card seems relevant and you hardly draw lands. I recently removed some Brainstorm's but I think they might belong in this deck. I also kinda think the Mind Sculpt are becoming useless, but sometimes I open a hand with it, because casting it early is like looking at a hand in his deck, and I can use that information to decide when to start fogging, and it helps the two-Dreadwaters kill.
Anyway I was just having some fun with this deck and thought I'd look for some suggestions.
I love the website. Please keep it up. I visit MTGO What's Happening for deck list all the time and this is a much more efficient way of viewing the information.
Yeah I think it's going to stay up for a while. I've barely spent any time at all organizing the event's listings and deck views.. if you have any ideas or features you think would be cool / helpful, let me know. That goes for anyone really.. if you have any ideas I'd love to hear them via PM or in this thread.
This is super awesome. Hope you can release it for the public soon.
Hey, thanks for the comment. It's really no hassle to keep up and after some initial downtime following that 48 hour period I put it back up at the request of some of my closer friends.
That being said, it's actually getting quite a bit of traffic, so it's likely that it will stay up and available. I already have some great volunteers pruning Avacyn data with me. It's added incentive though for me to actually build out the archetypes system. It's actually pretty robust right now but the archetypes are defined really simply, and I just need to put together much more complete archetype definitions and views.
Some of the updates from the last week:
Export decks to MTGO txt file
Export decks to MTGS BBCode.
Navigation and UI updates
Embed graphs with img tags
Here's an example of an graph to embed, Delver's recent usage:
I'll make another post when I've got all of the archetypes solid.
He also is not format breaking. He sees arguably less play than delver (decks that have snappy have delver, generally, however the reverse is not always true), and is fairly easy to play around.
Strictly speaking, on MTGO, this isn't true. I linked in the other post, but it's relevant here. Mana Leak and Snapcaster Mage are the two most-used non-land cards in standard right now, though Delver isn't far behind it.
I think that this article is indicative of a greater problem at wizards as far as card engineering goes. It seems far too reactive in the short term, and they create more problems for themselves down the line by always trying to create answers in the short term to fix cards.
That being said, Mana Leak and Snapcaster Mage are not "broken", but they are very powerful, and so powerful that they are actually the two most-used non-land cards in standard, both hovering around 45% of the competitive meta on MTGO.
It has to be addressed, right? Because you don't want two cards showing up in 50% of the meta, and always together. I think this correlation also really provides some insight into how Mana Leak affects the use of Snapcaster. I agree that the way they react seems short sighted, and they have a tendency to fix problems short term often creating new ones, but the stats show something had to be done. I don't think it's enough to stop the snapcaster + mana leak domination, personally.
Preordain is currently played in near 50% of the competitive meta, much more than Ponder. I think that without preordain and ponder delver would see significantly less play.
Raven's Crime is definitely starting to become more popular the last week or so. Seeing it as at least a one-of in DimirPost and MBC matchups in JFF. It's even been making some winning appearances in KaWaKaMi's dailies recently: http://mtgotech.com/card/id/6839/format/Pauper
I created a tool for browsing, analyzing and graphing MTGO tournament results. Initially a small personal project, it's reached a point where I wondered if anyone else would be interested in viewing this data. http://mtgotech.com.
Some initial features:
Navigate recent events and decks from MTGO published tournaments
Export deck to MTGSalvation BBCODE / MTGO deck file
Plot card usage in all formats over time
Automatic archetype assessment
Plot archetype usage over time
Display card relationships ( cards which have appeared in decks with a certain card )
I'm opening the tool for a short period of time ( 24 to 48 hours ) to gauge interest as well as take any feedback or suggestions - there are myriad interesting things to do with this data. But this has been put together over the last few rainy Sunday afternoons and it's still very basic. But the data is there, normalized, and waiting to be manipulated into any view that we're able to come up with. Other developers here would understand, it's 90% complete, now we just need to finish off the other 90%.
Here are just a few things that aren't complete yet, but I think would be valuable:
MORE archetypes with MORE accuracy! ( If there is interest, I will add a method to suggest these through the site )
Add recent decks to card view
Format stats - graph archetype usage together by format
Player stats - look up individual player's common decks and placements ( iffy )
Paginated page for all historical events
Add interaction to graphs to display data point information
Actually style the site
Many of these things are somewhat trivial to implement, but I've been using this tool without them and enjoying the results already, so I'd want to make sure it was worth the effort to any potential userbase at large.
Another thing that should be clear is that it is for the most part unstyled. If you are a designer by trade or hobby and are interested in helping to style the site, feel free to PM me and tell me the direction you see it going, and some of the work you've done.
Anyway, I hope you enjoy it. It's completely available free of charge and hosted on hardware which I had already owned and operated before I even started writing the tool. Still, I'm only going to keep it up for a short while to gauge interest, and if there is none then I will not bother to keep it public-facing.
Nightshade Peddler - I can see this as a sideboard card for green stompy decks, against other creature decks. It lets all of stompy's creatures trade up, and has great synergy with Young Wolf.
So I'm confused about Soulbond, they can only bond with other creatures that have Soulbond? Or any creature?
EDIT: Sorry for not paying closer attention but I wikied Soulbond and I'm up to speed.
I think personally that Joint Assault is a more potent effect but needs a card like Peddler to be effective anyway. Soulbond alone doesn't seem to be cool enough without the instants that accompany it. At least in the commons.
I strongly second the idea of dropping martyr of ashes for mogg conscripts for the reasons mentioned. Its too good not to play
Martyr of Ashes is a fine card, but it really doesn't fit against 8post, at least the izzet variety. It's not going to do much against the few creatures it does have, and especially not against ulamog or rolling thunder.
I also think jackal familiar is bad after having played the deck without it.
Agree again. I'm dying to remove Jackal Familiar from my goblins deck, every single time I draw it I cringe. It's horribly slow, and the rules are worth it for 3/3 like Mogg Flunkies, which most decks only run three of anyway, but definitely not for 2/2.
can i ask why boros is in primer??? if u look at any tournaments in 2012 there's no boros deck... no one... and why instead mono green (infect o stompy is the same) that many times wins tournaments is not in primer ??? also i believe we should make 2 storm topic one for WUB storm with familiars and the other one for depletion storm with masques lands.
Regarding why some popular archetypes aren't in Primers, I think it's just that they haven't been written yet? Primers require some effort to provide in-depth and concise information about these archetypes, and no one has gotten around to providing them for some of the more popular archetypes, including Goblins and Infect, and even Green Stompy could be there.
Someone step up to the plate!
EDIT: Adding smilies to display the good nature of the statement.
This is very similar to the deck I referenced in the OP. It might just be better all around deck. I always found that it wasn't fast enough though and you'd often have to choose between card draw or fog with the mana in play. Not that it's worse than this deck, but I've always hated playing cards like Words of Wisdom and Vision Skeins because they can be pretty harmful to cast, especially without a Jace's Erasure in play. Still, it may just be a better deck.
I'd like to see this deck work where you don't give them card draw, and emphasize always being able to fog by thinning out your lands and easily drawing fogs or card draw into more fogs.
This is a good point for sure. Forgot about Rampant Growth.
4 Dawn Charm
4 Moment's Peace
4 Safe Passage
2 Respite
2 Amass the Components
4 Deep Analysis
4 Preordain
4 Dreadwaters
2 Ulamog's Crusher
Ramp
3 Rampant Growth
3 Cultivate
8 Forest
5 Island
4 Plains
I've actually been doing pretty well with this deck against decks which don't employ hand disruption, but I'm only playing in Just For Fun. I just thought I'd shoot it out there and see if there's anything that takes this into Tournament Practice.
Monoblue matchup sucks. Mono black matchup with lots of disruption sucks. But I've been surviving a lot of aggro decks and that enchantments deck is totally powerless. I will mulligan for a Farseek depending on the hand, but once a Forest and Plains are in play you can generally start fogging pretty quickly.
By the time you cast a Cultivate A third of your lands might be out of your library. Every card seems relevant and you hardly draw lands. I recently removed some Brainstorm's but I think they might belong in this deck. I also kinda think the Mind Sculpt are becoming useless, but sometimes I open a hand with it, because casting it early is like looking at a hand in his deck, and I can use that information to decide when to start fogging, and it helps the two-Dreadwaters kill.
Anyway I was just having some fun with this deck and thought I'd look for some suggestions.
Yeah I think it's going to stay up for a while. I've barely spent any time at all organizing the event's listings and deck views.. if you have any ideas or features you think would be cool / helpful, let me know. That goes for anyone really.. if you have any ideas I'd love to hear them via PM or in this thread.
Hey, thanks for the comment. It's really no hassle to keep up and after some initial downtime following that 48 hour period I put it back up at the request of some of my closer friends.
That being said, it's actually getting quite a bit of traffic, so it's likely that it will stay up and available. I already have some great volunteers pruning Avacyn data with me. It's added incentive though for me to actually build out the archetypes system. It's actually pretty robust right now but the archetypes are defined really simply, and I just need to put together much more complete archetype definitions and views.
Some of the updates from the last week:
Here's an example of an graph to embed, Delver's recent usage:
I'll make another post when I've got all of the archetypes solid.
Strictly speaking, on MTGO, this isn't true. I linked in the other post, but it's relevant here. Mana Leak and Snapcaster Mage are the two most-used non-land cards in standard right now, though Delver isn't far behind it.
Last month of usage stats from MTGO:
Snapcaster
Delver
I'm not sure what what the rules for "format breaking" are, but appearing in almost 50% of the top-performing decks isn't something you see often.
That being said, Mana Leak and Snapcaster Mage are not "broken", but they are very powerful, and so powerful that they are actually the two most-used non-land cards in standard, both hovering around 45% of the competitive meta on MTGO.
Mana Leak Stats
Snapcaster Stats
It has to be addressed, right? Because you don't want two cards showing up in 50% of the meta, and always together. I think this correlation also really provides some insight into how Mana Leak affects the use of Snapcaster. I agree that the way they react seems short sighted, and they have a tendency to fix problems short term often creating new ones, but the stats show something had to be done. I don't think it's enough to stop the snapcaster + mana leak domination, personally.
Preordain is currently played in near 50% of the competitive meta, much more than Ponder. I think that without preordain and ponder delver would see significantly less play.
http://mtgotech.com/card/id/320/format/Pauper in contrast to http://mtgotech.com/card/id/74/format/Pauper
http://mtgotech.com/archetype/id/36
http://mtgotech.com/deck/id/2463
Some initial features:
I'm opening the tool for a short period of time ( 24 to 48 hours ) to gauge interest as well as take any feedback or suggestions - there are myriad interesting things to do with this data. But this has been put together over the last few rainy Sunday afternoons and it's still very basic. But the data is there, normalized, and waiting to be manipulated into any view that we're able to come up with. Other developers here would understand, it's 90% complete, now we just need to finish off the other 90%.
Here are just a few things that aren't complete yet, but I think would be valuable:
Many of these things are somewhat trivial to implement, but I've been using this tool without them and enjoying the results already, so I'd want to make sure it was worth the effort to any potential userbase at large.
Another thing that should be clear is that it is for the most part unstyled. If you are a designer by trade or hobby and are interested in helping to style the site, feel free to PM me and tell me the direction you see it going, and some of the work you've done.
Anyway, I hope you enjoy it. It's completely available free of charge and hosted on hardware which I had already owned and operated before I even started writing the tool. Still, I'm only going to keep it up for a short while to gauge interest, and if there is none then I will not bother to keep it public-facing.
Screenshots:
Card View
Archetype View
So I'm confused about Soulbond, they can only bond with other creatures that have Soulbond? Or any creature?
EDIT: Sorry for not paying closer attention but I wikied Soulbond and I'm up to speed.
I think personally that Joint Assault is a more potent effect but needs a card like Peddler to be effective anyway. Soulbond alone doesn't seem to be cool enough without the instants that accompany it. At least in the commons.
Martyr of Ashes is a fine card, but it really doesn't fit against 8post, at least the izzet variety. It's not going to do much against the few creatures it does have, and especially not against ulamog or rolling thunder.
Agree again. I'm dying to remove Jackal Familiar from my goblins deck, every single time I draw it I cringe. It's horribly slow, and the rules are worth it for 3/3 like Mogg Flunkies, which most decks only run three of anyway, but definitely not for 2/2.
Regarding why some popular archetypes aren't in Primers, I think it's just that they haven't been written yet? Primers require some effort to provide in-depth and concise information about these archetypes, and no one has gotten around to providing them for some of the more popular archetypes, including Goblins and Infect, and even Green Stompy could be there.
Someone step up to the plate!
EDIT: Adding smilies to display the good nature of the statement.