MTG Salvation

Quote from ArgonathDK »

Thank you so much for your answer. They make so much sense, and I almost feel stupid when you explain it, cause it just seem SO obv

Do you run Dech Tech's on youtube or anywhere else, that one can follow?

Thanks again, this is SO much help.

No problem, I really haven't done much with the original post in conveying a lot of this. I kind of backed off on trying to be the person to make a Primer on this in part because after I really got it where I wanted I backed off on it as its faster than I often want to try to be for average games of commander.

I primarily post to MTGNexus these days but I haven't done any work with this over there in part because while I have not retired this deck, again I am not really seeing tons of changes these days with it nor am I playing it as much. I kept everything for Markov over here given I wasn't really making big strides with it of late and a lot of the history of it was here.

Quote from ArgonathDK »

Thank you so much. I already had my eyes on Yawgmoth, but I have never played with Necropotence even though I know it's a very strong card. To be honest I don't quiet understand the card, and how to use it, but know I guess I have to learn

I see btw that you almost don't run any removal. Do you rely on pushing through with your Vampires, or that your other opponents just takes care of it? I quickly find my self as the arch nemesis in the game, for obvious reasons, so ppl are hesitant when it comes to remove anything that works against me, meaning I almost always have to fight my own battles, and can't rely on politics like with other decks.

Does this deck only win if one doens't run into too many wipes? What was your game plan?

How do you feel about Selfless Spirit as a little protection? It even keeps the curve down.
Also, I see you run Obelisk of Urd, so how do you feel about Venerated Loxodon in the deck?

Necropotence - essentially it lets you refill your hand every turn at the cost of life. Being that you are the aggro player use your HP pool to get yourself resources. The way you lose the game tends to be because you run out of resources or the game goes long rather than health hitting zero. I mean, eventually you die to hp hitting zero but its usually because you failed at your primary goal of being the aggressor.

Removal - I run a little bit. My answer is to kill the player that is being the problem rather than removing their things. Don't try to answer everything, just run people down and answer what you have to. Its part of why most of the answers I do run are very versatile in targeting instead of having things like Swords to Plowshares. Who cares whats in play if you are killing that player through it. Target priority and killing the right person first is a big thing too.

Wraths - Keep drawing cards and you will be fine. I can think of some games where I would eat a wrath every turn and be fine because I kept my draw going. If you stop drawing that is when a wrath will wreck you.

Selfless Spirit - Its ok. Keep in mind that it won't protect from every type of wrath and wraths aren't the only thing that can cause problems. An opponent walks right through this with a Toxic Deluge for example. Personally I think that people over focus the idea of wraths as the problem for this deck and my issue with most wrath protection effects is how they are often situational or require mana to stay up and be responsive. Selfless is far from the worst of these and I think if you want to run it its probably fine, just be aware of the drawbacks of it as well. Most anything that isn't a vampire in some way or another competes for a slot in the list.

Obelisk of Urd / Venerated Loxodon - I haven't gotten enough testing in with Obelisk to really comment much on it. I have been playing the list a bit less of late but I think the difference between Obelisk and Loxodon are quite big. Keep in mind that you can have any number of vampires taking the buff of Obelisk which is also twice as powerful as Loxodon and you can attack with the improved power of Obelisk this turn where as Loxodon has a big wait before its buff picks up given you just tapped down the ones you buffed. While I am still not sure how I feel about Obelisk, I would say that Loxodon is less than 1/4 as good in my mind for the deck.

Quote from jakethewhale »

What do you think about Rankle, Master of Pranks? His ability to sacrifice creatures seems good to keep opponents' boards clear while we have tokens to spare. If opponents don't have threatening creatures, the hand attack can be strong, and we likely run enough draw to compensate anyway.

Rankle, Master of Pranks - Outside of the fact that its a 4 mana non vampire, yea I dig it. All of the effects are relevant for the deck. I guess my issue is that I don't know that it does enough for a 4 mana non vampire. We are trying to move so fast and every turn we tend to have a lot of demands on our mana. Its nice that he has haste and does his thing quickly, I guess I just don't see it as something that will add up fast enough to pay for itself and the value over time or off of curve seems questionable to me.

---

I have been kind of lazy when it comes to updating this list. I have known for a while I wanted to make a few changes so I am going to push a few through after giving them some more thought.

DECK CHANGES:

• Dark Confidant -> Arcane Signet - as much as I hate to admit it, Dark Confidant hasn't been stellar. He costs less than Phyrexian Arena but has all of the same issues and dies to a lot of the things that sweep my board as well. I wasn't exactly on the hype train for Arcane Signet when it came out but having played it in a few other decks I think it probably is the right to pick it up here. Only costing a single mana the turn I play it because it taps for mana and fixes for me makes it cost very little and give me fixing and ramp at just too cheap of a cost. I still don't think I would want the other signets but this one is so much superior to all the others its not even fair.
• Falkenrath Aristocrat -> Champion of Dusk - Falkenrath Aristocrat is close to what I would call a pet card of mine. I really am fond of what it does. That said, I think the payoff for sac vampires is still not quite there. If there were more incentive to have that sacrifice on demand it might be different. Without more death trigger vampires in the chaper costs though I just haven't been happy enough to pay this much for this effect. I think I will give Yahenni, Undying Partisan a little longer to test in part because he has some natural stat growth that seems appealing. I had wanted to push my draw up a little more which gets me back to bringing Champion back in.
• Judith, the Scourge Diva -> Universal Automaton - Judith was...... close on several occasions to being what I was looking for but I still found her a little lacking primarily on the fact that she wasn't a vampire. With adding more draw to the list and some of that shifting the curve up I just kind of want to drop some mana here and there and increase the vampire count.
• Pawn of Ulamog -> Adanto Vanguard the death triggers plan just wasn't panning out. I wanted to drop the curve down a little where I can which got me to this change.
• Ad Nauseam -> Bolas's Citadel The more I thought about it, Ad Nauseam just costs a bit too much mana given some of the new options. The fact that it costs me 5 mana and a bunch of life and I still need to cast the things I draw just put me sort of questioning if this is where I wanted to be. I haven't tested Citadel out yet and the more I thought about it I think I kind of like the option to use my life to cast things directly to play.

I guess thats all for now. I need to get some more testing in with all these new changes.

Quote from ArgonathDK »

I totally agree with this, and that everyone has to be at the same powerlevel. I just think that some ppl rate markov higher than he is, due to them not running board wipes, removal etc. and it just sounded like you didn't play it due to it's speed. This makes alot more sense

Anyway, if it's not too much to ask, could I then get you to have a look at my current deck version, and make suggestions? The cards in my "Maybe" list are cards that I own and bought at the very beginnning before I read your post here, and decided to go low curve

I'm also willing to buy more cards, but atm there is no room for mana crypt and cards at a simular price.

I really appriciate all your help. My current playgroup likes the pressure from this deck, and are running decks at the same powerlevel, so don't feel shy suggesting powerful cards , muhahaha

My best advice is to continue to try to lower your curve while increasing the number of cards you can draw without paying mana for them. Necropotence is probably the most busted card in my list and if you were to ask me what all the tutors I run are for, its mostly to get my hands on this card. When you spin up this card its not unheard of for me to try to play 4-6 cards a turn every turn until it is answered. I will often mulligan looking for hands that have good draw or a tutor. Once you get your hands on a copy of this card my next suggestion would be to add Yawgmoth, Thran Physician. I will still probably tutor for Necropotence over Yawgmoth but I have still been incredibly pleased with the performance of Yawgmoth so far.

This deck lives on having a low curve and busted card draw. If you can just keep focusing in on doing that better it really will run really smooth.

Quote from ArgonathDK »

@ISBPathfinder

Sorry for not responding before now, but have been out sick.

Thank you so much, for your very in depth answer, it was really helpful, and when I asked my self alot of the questions you asked, then I have to agree with you.

Two questions though

You say that you are not playing it due to it being a bit fast in your current meta, so my question is....isn't that the point of an aggro deck? Imo its a valid strategy, and even in a steady playing group, ppl will have to be ready for all tactics, it being mill or aggro. Agreeing on not playing aggro leads to deck building that are unatural imo, bc ppl are then able to build around it, and not care. The deck is fast yes, the Emminence trigger is powerful yes, but imo not overpowered. I think ppl rate the powerlevel higher than it sohuld be only due to them not having any aggro answers in their deck.

I would very much like to hear your thoughts on this

Last question is about one last Enchantment, and you will properbly just tell me the same as you did above, but I have just found my selv in several situations now, where this would have helped me to push through, giving a flying vampire this buff, or a non-blockable one.

Angelic Exaltation

Once again, thank you so much for this thread. Having only played Commander for 3-4 months, this is the thread I have enjoyed the most, and I still play my Markov deck with big excitement

Aggro - I don't have a problem being an aggro player. My issue is more that if you sit down repeatedly and goldfish your opponents there is probably a disparity between the power levels of the decks being played. I like building powerful decks but I like it when I still sit down to a game of magic with opponents that has a back and forth. Its true that aggro can be a less interactive archetype but at a point I am just being cruel to the other players. I own plenty of decks that would have a hard time playing against my own vampire deck but sometimes its like playing a tuned out 75% list against a casual deck I feel bad about doing. When I tend to play my vampires it tends to be against some of the better players and I often mention that I am stepping it up because I do want to have a challange rather than see if I can goldfish the new players so to say. Some other challenge has been that I sold off some of my collection so in some cases what used to be 4 Mana Crypts became 2 so some of my resources are shared so I have to determine where I want those for the week or I have to try to push them around between games. I tend to sort of prepair my decks for the week ahead of time rather than on the fly moving stuff. I am not against playing aggro, I just like to be on a similar page of power level when I play if that makes sense. When I need to do testing and improvements to a deck I tend to give a little more room for testing but I am at a point where the list as a whole doesn't need a lot of proving or testing anymore.

Angelic Exaltation - The effect can be amusing to send in an evasive creature for a bunch but the loss of damage from having the same card be an anthem is very real. Also when you consolidate your attack like this you become a lot more susceptible to spot removal or a maze effect. Its an interesting concept but where the payoff would really be would be if your opponents have a lot of blockers for you or using it like a psudo haste outlet in that you could have a bunch of new creatures contribute immediately. Still though, I don't think that taking a slot for a non vampire gives enough in this case over just jamming an anthem here.

Quote from ArgonathDK »

Still a huge help. My version is a bit more budget friendly, so I don't have the same freedom. But you post here had a lot of new information, and you experience with the deck is SO valuable for me, that never played it before. I'm testing my own version for the first time tonight, with a low 43 Creature mana curve.

I my self love Patriarch's Bidding and are also thinking about Command The Dreadhorde to bring back the value when board wipes are unstoppable

Either way, thanks for posting, and hoping you will return to The Vampire Lord in the near future. Will look for your posts

Its not that I don't have the deck together anymore but the deck is a bit much for the average game of magic that I find myself in. I have a few other decks that I kind of find to be a little similar as well and sometimes they get dismantled or played less frequently. Recently I built a Sai, Master Thopterist deck and I think ultimately it might end up in the same boat as Edgar but because its new and I haven't finished tuning and adjust it I still play it probably a bit more than I will in the long run.

I have however sold some of my collection off which I went from having 2-3 of most ABU duels to having 1-2 of most of them. I got rid of two of my four mana crypts and one of my two mox diamonds so now I guess I am sharing some of the resources between decks which often becomes a question of what I want to field for the week and then moving the resources there. Vamps is still together but some of the resources it shares get moved around meaning its not always immediately ready to be played.

Having a kid is expensive

Quote from Chaos Milk Tea »

Oh wow, I'm glad I found this deck list. I've been refining my deck for a yearish and this list looks like it's basically where my deck was going to end up. It's actually kind of spooky since you've already gone ahead and removed some of the cards I'm currently planning to replace like Impact Tremors and Metallic Mimic. It's like seeing my own deck but in the future, lol. Also thank you so much for mentioning Yawgmoth, Thran Physician. I wouldn't have thought to try a 4 mana sac outlet but he actually does SO MUCH for the deck.

I'd like to get some thoughts from everyone on the following cards.

• Dusk Legion Zealot: Is it just me or is this card actually kind of slow? I'm starting to wonder if the draw 1 is worth a 2 mana 1/1. Certainly slot efficient, but not tempo efficient.
• Purphoros, God of the Forge: People are really scared of this card, but I'm starting to think it might need to go for the same reason as Impact tremors. Purphoros is a powerful card, but it gets cast so late and has no immediate impact unless you have tons of mana and a full hand. Most of the time this card gets me targeted and killed before it can do much.
• Stromkirk Condemned: I used to avoid this card like the plague since it seemed like it would just lose me card advantage. Now that the deck is much better at refilling the hand though, it's starting to look like a second Legion Lieutenant.
• Humble Defector: A different kind of reckless card draw. It doesn't draw immediately but it has gotten me politics points while keeping my hand full. Sometimes it stops working if you are the archenemy.
• Adaptive Automaton: I originally avoided this card for not being a vampire on cast, but now I'm starting to think that any anthem that gets pumped by my other anthems may be worth including. That is, at least until we get new vampires from Zendikar in 2020.

Dusk Legion Zealot - its slow from the standpoint that its a 1/1 for 2 with no evasion. That said though, I still like it more than Sign in Blood because it comes with two bodies. Drawing a single card isn't great for this deck but running out of cards is also kind of rough on this deck. If you ever run out of cards to cast without having draw and you draw a one drop vampire they tend to also be a bit poor so I think this one is fine. Its not the best vampire ever but I also haven't really regretted having it in my list.

Purphoros, God of the Forge I know what you mean when he gets immediately countered / exiled. He just does a lot more than Impact Tremmors and is ultimately a lot more robust. I don't think its wrong if you do or don't run him. He can get a lot of work in and some of it comes down to the question of how much counter magic and or exile removal you encounter in your meta. I suspect that looking at his performance against multiple metas would vary quite a lot.

Stromkirk Condemned good to know. I have had a few people vouch for him and I have yet to run him myself. I will have to put him in for some testing when I get a chance to run some more vampires in the future.

Humble Defector how is this better than Sign in Blood? I guess maybe you sacrifice him with his ability on the stack but that still doesn't sound better than several cheap one shot draw effects that we are not running.

Adaptive Automaton maybe.... I was just so horribly disappointed when I did test Metallic Mimic that I guess I am not exactly excited about the prospect. At some point I will see if I can test it though because a lot of the mimic's downsides were that it needed to be played before a swarm of vampires came in where as this one follows them up better.

Quote from ArgonathDK »

@ISBPathfinder

I know you don't play the deck anymore, and I'm not sure if you are still around, but would very much like your opnions on the following cards, in a low mana curve build.

Etchings of the Chosen
Sanguine Bond in combo with Blind Obedience and all the other lifelink.
Command the dreadhorde and Patriarch's Bidding
Sorin, Solemn Visitor and Ajani, Adversary of Tyrants

I am not at a point where I wouldn't play it more so much as that it was mostly where I wanted it to be and I didn't have a lot of cards I felt I needed to test or adjust at the point where I started playing it less. Its a little bit fast as well for my meta for me to regularly play it.

• Etchings of the Chosen - In general, I think that every non vampire / non land card in this deck has a large question to answer which is.... why run this card over the numerous other options. The amount of room we have for non vamp / non land cards in this deck is a bit narrow and in general you will often have better results pushing up your draw when looking at non vampire / non land effects. When looking at Etchings of the Chosen specifically, I think its just.... ok as an anthem. There are so many 3 mana anthems that part of this card is kind of moot to really look at because there are plenty of others. When you look at it from the stance of a sac outlet and or protection defense my issue is that its expensive to keep up for either. At best, you might be able to protect like..... 1 creature in play consistently but beyond that you are going to stop playing to the board in order to keep protection effects up. Its rather poor as a sac outlet or a protection outlet because this is a go wide strategy and if you wanted to say.... try to kill someone with Blood Artist triggers, it would just cost wayyyyy too much mana to move bodies to do actual damage to the opponent. In a nutshell, I think sweepers are the removal option threat to this deck and this card doesn't help vs sweepers in a meaningful way. I would probably play Icon of Ancestry or Heraldic Banner over this card but I think that the amount of space for non vampires is so low for this deck, I don't actually think that any of the three mana anthems are actually going to compete in a tuned list. If you are looking for budget, I would probably run Icon of Ancestry and or Heraldic Banner before I got to this card at least in testing.
• Sanguine Bond - honestly, I think this card is bad. It just doesn't do anything unless you assemble the full combo. If you plan to run combos, I think they should involve cards that you would potentially want to run outside of the combo assembling. Those tend to be the best combos. This is a card you really shouldn't ever want outside of the full combo and thats why I have never thought this combo is very good. The full combo with this card costs 10 mana as well and I think both of the cards involved in it are kind of weak cards outside of assembling them together. I am only aware of the combo with it and Exquisite Blood offhand. This combo is also very weak to players scooping for whatever that is worth as it will stop it from continuing which is kind of lame but its also just not that good.
• Command the dreadhorde / Patriarch's Bidding - My issue with a lot of the mass resurection effects is that they are very subject to what your opponents are doing. What if you encounter Aetherspouts, Aetherize, Cyclonic Rift, Terminus, Hallowed Burial, Merciless Eviction, graveyard hate, etc. My point here being that it is heavily reactionary and based a lot on opponents allowing you to have these effects. Beyond that what if your opponents put up defenses like Moat, Ghostly Prison, Crawlspace instead of wrathing your board? Mass recursion is often very situational and depends on either you filling up your graveyard with threats or opponents to wrath you. I don't like mass recursion in this deck because its very reactionary and situational at that. Having a mass rez effect doesn't help you if you are stairing down an Elesh Norn in play. Due to this, I focus a lot more on drawing cards and tutoring. Tutors can get you some of our best draw effects or a wincon but they can also let you cherry pick a handful of great removal effects to try to get you out of more diverse situations. This deck wants cards that can be proactively played and keep it moving forward and when you run situational cards (like removal) it tends to be best to allow them to interact with a high number of types of cards rather than being slightly more efficient (like Swords to Plowshares) because its not always going to be a creature that forces you to completely brick off and die.
• Sorin, Solemn Visitor / Ajani, Adversary of Tyrants - Really, it comes right back to what I was talking about with the mass reanimation. These cards are too dependant on opponents doing specific things. When you rez a vampire from graveyard to play you also don't get the free vampire token which is not great for value. Its true that these guys could do some work if you got them out early with sac outlets and just played with them but what happens when you draw them later in the game and are left with this awkward 4 mana maybe rez a threat card? For the most part I don't really buy that we plan to defend planeswalkers given we don't have a ton of flying things we would want to throw under the bus for a walker. I also don't think that either of these walkers pay for themselves the turn they hit play and thats why ultimately I don't see myself playing either.

Quote from Vlasiax »

You might be interested in a little combo that I've found on someone's decklist on tappedout: Phyrexian Altar + Cloudstone Curio + 1 CMC Vampire. In my build I already use Altar as an extender because it let's me cast more 1 CMC Vampires so at least for me adding another artifact might be worth it.

I usually avoid infinite combos where I can as a principal of how I build. If you start playing combos and tutoring to assemble it then why not just build a combo deck is usually my question. Combos tend to be more efficient than using creature combat so at what point do you question why to play Edgar Markov instead of something a bit more dedicated to combo. That is the sort of question I would ask at least.

Quote from ArgonathDK »

Hi @ISBPathfinder

I can see that you have edited you OP "Last edited by ISBPathfinder: Jul 2, 2019". My guess is that this also concerns the decklist it self?

Thank you in advance for this great thread. Very helpful

Yea, I don't play it as much anymore in part because we don't get as many new cards and its a little bit fast for my usual meta. I did manage to play against it a few times this weekend with some friends who were borrowing my decks though. I think I finally have enough testing with a few of my latest changes to comment on a few cards that I probably need to change.

Judith, the Scourge Diva - essentially my issue has been that she costs too much. She is like a more situational goblin bombardment but she herself isn't a sac outlet but like sort of anthem sort of ping effect. I haven't been happy in the few times I have seen her. I think if she was a vampire herself maybe it would change things but I think she is too situational as she is.

Pawn of Ulamog - It costs too much and the tokens it makes are colorless mana. Without sac outlets and a payoff for things dying or entering I just felt this was too underhwleming. I would prefer a 1-2 mana threat in most cases instead.

Falkenrath Aristocrat - I need more draw instead I think. Its a lot to ask for 4 mana for a single vampire especially given that this one isn't that big of a threat so much as just kind of resilient. I don't dislike what it does, it just costs too much and I have seen reason to want to pay one more for a draw outlet instead.

I won't go through changes right now, mostly because I am lazy but I think those three probably are going to be on their way out.

Quote from WizardMN »

Kess can cast Instants in the Graveyard since you, basically, look at them as Instants or Sorceries and then see if anything lets you cast them. Normally, this is the normal rules, but Kess allows this as well.

Toshiro is different since Toshiro targets and they are never instants or sorceries to be targeted in the graveyard.

the Toshi punish. I guess carry on.

If you check the gatherer for any of the adventure cards it states that they are creatures in all zones except while on the stack. Adventure cards in graveyards, libraries, exile, or play are only considered creatures. For the purposes of Kess they will never be spells while in graveyard. I asked more or less the same thing for Toshiro Umezawa.

https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=473052

First Ruling:

"An adventurer card is a creature card in every zone except the stack, as well as while on the stack if not cast as an Adventure. Ignore its alternative characteristics in those cases. For example, while it’s in your graveyard, Giant Killer is a white creature card whose converted mana cost is 1. It can’t be the target of the triggered ability of Mystic Sanctuary."

Quote from EonAon »

Blade of the Bloodchief should be considered as well if you go equip route. not that your going to have a lot of sac outlets but any you do use really ramps up most of the deck

Yea, can go that direction too. I have always been sort of hesitant because this deck tends to swarm so lots of our targets tend to lack much for evasion.

Quote from Vlasiax »

So it might be better to run Open the Armory to get additional chance to hit Skullclamp, which draws ton of cards? But besides that I don't think there's an equipement or even aura that might be an additional target for this tutor.

I have put some thought into an equipment package. I think Umezawa's Jitte and Heirloom Blade would be some of the next consideration equipment. I think the swords of X and Y are mostly too expensive to spin up for this deck when you take into account how much mana they cost and how long it takes to get their value back out. Jitte is also a little slow but the option to 3 for 1 in combat vs opposing swarm decks is mostly what I look at there but shy of playing against a lot of swarmy token decks I don't really like it much. Konda's Banner seems like it would be fun but given it needs to enchant a legend really throws a wrench into it making it feel a little overly dependent on Edgar being in play which feels a little winmore to plan to equip him beyond getting him in play. Heirloom Blade still kind of intrigues me but it still feels like worse Skullclamp but I think its valuable to consider that it always draws you into action where as clamp draws into lands and such. You need to push a bit harder on sac outlets and low cost vamps for the blade but I really don't think it's that bad if looking to expand the equipment slot.

I think if you push equipment I would try to get three equipment though just to have a bit more redundancy for the tutors. After that I would generally suggest getting Steelshaper's Gift and Stoneforge Mystic over Open the Armory but I get that if you are looking at Open the Armory its probably for budget reasons. I went back and forth on equipment early on in my build but I found that in a lot of cases it wasn't necessarily my preferred thing to work with here. Too often the appeal of tutoring for Necropotence just won out over tutoring for equipment. There are still some affordable budget option tutors like Gamble that could try to get Necro. I just happened to have the money to not rely on the inconsistency of that card but in some ways its nice that its faster than Imperial Seal in that it resolves itself in the same turn.

Bolas's Citadel / Champion of Dusk are still also very viable. I ended up cutting some of them because ultimately my high mana cost draw effects started feeling a bit too high to run all of them. These are affordable cards as well that I think are worth testing if you need more draw. Given my tutors and density of 5+ mana cards I was trying to avoid jamming all of them in a deck. Consider having 2+ 5 mana draw cards in hand at one time vs the option of having one of those and a tutor. The tutors open the deck up a bit more and allow some of my 1x of effects to be a bit more reachable. Having those tutors alongside a single Austere Command can make my access to that wrath feel much more consistent but I still have the option of tutoring into necro. If you are going to cut back on the expensive tutors my suggestion is to potentially also cut Austere Command as I think with less tutors Austere starts competing with those expensive card draw slots.

Quote from Vlasiax »

What do you guys think about Cauldron Haze as a means to double the number of nontoken bodies to sacrifice? Am I right that these 1/1s come to the battlefield first and then die due to -1/-1 counter being put AFTER coming to battlefield?

EDIT: Also to get more card draw do you think that Night's Whisper and maybe Costly Plunder might be an option?

Cauldron Haze - its probably going to be an inferior Boros Charm. You lose all of the tokens you had and on top of that they come back smaller which means that without an anthem creature in play a lot of the non token vampires might also end up dying when they return. I would say its probably several cards that I would run over it. You are correct that they would enter before dying but they would die as a state based effect before any of the ETB effects resolve.

Something to take into account with a low curve like what we run is that generally speaking you will need to draw more cards than your average deck. I do think that Sign in Blood effects tend to be fine in most decks but we can play more cards in a turn with this deck than your average deck. I would say the overall value per card in this deck is lower which means its important to draw more cards for the mana. Its part of why Necropotence is so valuable for this deck because we don't spend mana drawing those cards really (outside of the cost to cast it). Its part of why I have put a lot more priority on tutors because the amount of draw that you can get your hands on of this level is quite limited.

Quote from NZB2323 »

What do people think of Castle of Locthwain?

In general, I think the castles are extremely slow when you look at activating them. Of the three of them that we could run here, I think the red one is the one we would most want to activate but I also think the red intensity of it is REALLY high. The black castle is a very unsatisfyingly expensive land for how fast we ideally want to be running so I would say that we would really only activate it in a really bad spot but I also think that if I had the option to cast Edgar I would do that like, every time over activating ANY of the castles.

I think the castles are cool but I also don't think we really want to ideally be activating any of them in this deck. They seem to play a lot better towards decks that don't mind if they are a little slower in nature. The black castle is kind of weird to me as it seems like a card that you want when playing a deck that runs enpty on hand but those kind of decks probably want to be moving faster and it looks a bit dreadfully slow when you look at essentially a 4 mana draw 1 with a bunch of life loss attached.

Quote from BloodyMangus »

What does everyone think about Fires of Invention? Looks like a one sided red Aluren to me.

Our spells are cheap and if you are actually pushing good draw I can think of a lot of turns where I cast more than two spells a turn. Good turns backed by draw can often be 4+ spells cast in a turn.

My own list actually looks fairly similar. My list is a little out of date but its still mostly accurate.

I have questioned copy spells a few times and ultimately I have decided for the most part not to run them myself. I power my own list using things like Future Sight to chain spells and just get on spellcast value.

If I have any advice to give, I guess it would be that lowering the curve and running cheaper draw mostly has panned out for me. I see a lot of big splashy spells and walkers which is fine, I just thought I would say don't be afraid to slim down and run harder on turning cards over. Its amazing what a few Future Sight effects with a ton of cantrips can do.

Quote from theCreecH »

You cut Drana, Liberator of Malakir?

Sorry about the delay, I have been a bit wishy washy with salvation these days.

Yes, I still kind of like her but she is kind of a slow anthem effect. She doesn't buff the rest of my creatures until she can attack which is a bit slow. I am testing out some new things with the sac outlets which I don't know where I stand on that stance yet but I think she is still a bit of a boarderline lord from the standpoint that she takes time to spin up.

Quote from jakethewhale »

What are your thoughts on Embereth Skyblazer as a buff? Unfortunate that it doesn't have haste, but the following turn, it would buff itself to 7 attack, and all your vamps to 4+ attack.

I can't find a card for that card name. Can you link a card? I suspect you are talking about a new card given that there are several other Embereth cards I see spoiled but I haven't seen that one nor can I find it in the spoilers I visit.

EDIT: Ohhh ok I see it now its one of the beyond print number for next set cards. Its ultimately a worse Mirror Entity in most cases. I would probably just run that instead.