I would remove helm before I remove a general. This is the opportunity to allow the format to breath again and achieve some of the old power level it used to have.
That said oloro is counterproductive to that as the general itself is the problem not supporting cards.
I want to say thank you to the committee for taking such bold actions at present and look forward to what you have found is safe in November.
There are several cards which we can all point to as easy unbans and while I hope you push your assumptions away and test everything I know that you will not fall to such mad inclinations such as tabernacle unbanning or monolith unbanning.
If they actually wanted aggro to be successful then tabernacle can never be unbanned. I play tabernacle turn 1
You play Zurgo you now have 1 less mana per turn with just Zurgo, 2 of you play anything else. I still have access to all my mana and can build my board state while you can only play exactly what you have on board. You are forced to invest stock mana into nothing and I can progress with you repeatedly being time walked.
Aka tabernacle is never going to be an acceptable unban. The card is hyper oppressive to the very archetype they just made such a major change for.
The format speeding up will mean creature decks are more prevalent which means Geist dies to a bear much more often. He's fine for now.
Zur never ran Any mox, the deck did run mana rocks but at this point you are trying to derive policy from magical Christmas land. I have played against the deck in its perfect form and its banning even surprised me. It was not as powerful as its "legend" would have you believe
Oloro will never ever be a safe unban because the best way to build the deck has 0 permanents. Your opponent is forced to put everything on the table to race you down and oloro counters what can't be wrathed and then wraths on then 4. At that point every turn you don't have a creature attacking you are losing.
It forces you into a situation you cannot beat. I played hundreds of games against oloro and did not win a single one against a skilled opponent. I can't say zur or tasigur or even edric felt as broken and degenerate.
I've gone through and quickly summed up a few generals who I think are definitely worth looking into.
Anax and cymede
Exava
Olivia mobilizer of war
Marchesa the black rose
Queen marchesa
Rafiq
Ruhan
Grenzo dungeon warden
Grenzo (rr)
Tymaret
Skullbriar
Thalia
Zurgo bellstriker
Honestly the best decks and references we have now are probably decks around the time of edric. They had to play wraths and anger effects as well as cheap removal.
I would look there to find technology and guideposts on new deck construction
I promise you all draw go control will still exist. It will just have to interact with its opponent at early stages of the game. Before you could just ignore them then slam a wrath and have no early game draws late and mid game and win easily. Now you have to play your resources correctly and plan for the varying stages of the game.
This is why I listed tasigur in the other thread as a unban, control decks don't look the same anymore. You will need to run things like disfigure and flaying tendrils in order to keep up.
The best way to look at this right now as if duelcommander died and we have soemthing entirely new. Let's be honest the format was on its deathbed. Or at the very least it had cancer. This takes what was good about the format (the banlist) and strikes it until it becomes good again. For the first time in a long time I'm hopeful of what the format might become.
My thoughts as well. The (imo) biggest hurdle of format balance has been killed and now real balance can begin.
Just finished saying you get where we are going in the other thread and here you are again. This is a good future to have. Let's see if the RC has the courage to clean up the banlist and let the format become what it was always meant to be.
Jiv gets it. The banlist should be as small as possible, with only cards on it that actively warp the format. He's been a beacon of fresh thinking for a while.
The best way to look at this right now as if duelcommander died and we have soemthing entirely new. Let's be honest the format was on its deathbed. Or at the very least it had cancer. This takes what was good about the format (the banlist) and strikes it until it becomes good again. For the first time in a long time I'm hopeful of what the format might become.
If an aggro deck loses to a single 4 mana 1/4 then they built their deck wrong.
Keep in mind design space for red has changed in the last few years and spells deal 4 damage to creatures more often. Also keep in mind most aggro decks are going to be multiple colors which should have more removal.
But on to the topic. I think the format will have a renaissance under this change. It finally has drawn the line in the sand between itself and commander and it has done so by making aggro a tier one strategy.
Entomb reanimate was rarely something people could do with consistency. So maybe leave the entomb off but add the other tutors.
I still think yisan should never have been banned. And now that your dying on turn 4/5 he isn't an issue in anyway. I feel the same for zur. People will play hyper aggressive decks and be very successful. The consistency of aggro is going to be much higher than the consistency of control decks. aggro just tries to curve out while control NEEDS to find a wrath by turn 4 more likely than not.
I would never unban Erayo. It is true when it was legal it never really did much but when it did it made people want to quit the format.
Edric was very strong I played with and against it. But when other people are playing stronger creatures and more efficient creatures I feel little flying men won't do enough. The thing is there where never enough pure aggro decks to punish it not having any clean removal. And now red/black/white are all very very important for wrath effects.
As for zur your playing him on average turn 6 in the past. With 20 life you have two less or 3 less turns before you die and so it is much harder to stabilize. If you are able to keep the board empty or land him and swing Then you deserve to win. He's a good finisher but with such low life you get one maybe two chances to cast him before you get smoked.
That said oloro is counterproductive to that as the general itself is the problem not supporting cards.
I want to say thank you to the committee for taking such bold actions at present and look forward to what you have found is safe in November.
There are several cards which we can all point to as easy unbans and while I hope you push your assumptions away and test everything I know that you will not fall to such mad inclinations such as tabernacle unbanning or monolith unbanning.
It will be exciting to see this new format.
You play Zurgo you now have 1 less mana per turn with just Zurgo, 2 of you play anything else. I still have access to all my mana and can build my board state while you can only play exactly what you have on board. You are forced to invest stock mana into nothing and I can progress with you repeatedly being time walked.
Aka tabernacle is never going to be an acceptable unban. The card is hyper oppressive to the very archetype they just made such a major change for.
Zur never ran Any mox, the deck did run mana rocks but at this point you are trying to derive policy from magical Christmas land. I have played against the deck in its perfect form and its banning even surprised me. It was not as powerful as its "legend" would have you believe
Also tabernacle is not acceptable as an unban.
It forces you into a situation you cannot beat. I played hundreds of games against oloro and did not win a single one against a skilled opponent. I can't say zur or tasigur or even edric felt as broken and degenerate.
Anax and cymede
Exava
Olivia mobilizer of war
Marchesa the black rose
Queen marchesa
Rafiq
Ruhan
Grenzo dungeon warden
Grenzo (rr)
Tymaret
Skullbriar
Thalia
Zurgo bellstriker
Who do you think has a chance at 20 life??
I would look there to find technology and guideposts on new deck construction
This is why I listed tasigur in the other thread as a unban, control decks don't look the same anymore. You will need to run things like disfigure and flaying tendrils in order to keep up.
Just finished saying you get where we are going in the other thread and here you are again. This is a good future to have. Let's see if the RC has the courage to clean up the banlist and let the format become what it was always meant to be.
This feels like they are going back to powerful spells in duelcommander again but dropping life aggressively. It would be good to see that again.
Keep in mind design space for red has changed in the last few years and spells deal 4 damage to creatures more often. Also keep in mind most aggro decks are going to be multiple colors which should have more removal.
But on to the topic. I think the format will have a renaissance under this change. It finally has drawn the line in the sand between itself and commander and it has done so by making aggro a tier one strategy.
I still think yisan should never have been banned. And now that your dying on turn 4/5 he isn't an issue in anyway. I feel the same for zur. People will play hyper aggressive decks and be very successful. The consistency of aggro is going to be much higher than the consistency of control decks. aggro just tries to curve out while control NEEDS to find a wrath by turn 4 more likely than not.
I would never unban Erayo. It is true when it was legal it never really did much but when it did it made people want to quit the format.
Edric was very strong I played with and against it. But when other people are playing stronger creatures and more efficient creatures I feel little flying men won't do enough. The thing is there where never enough pure aggro decks to punish it not having any clean removal. And now red/black/white are all very very important for wrath effects.
As for zur your playing him on average turn 6 in the past. With 20 life you have two less or 3 less turns before you die and so it is much harder to stabilize. If you are able to keep the board empty or land him and swing Then you deserve to win. He's a good finisher but with such low life you get one maybe two chances to cast him before you get smoked.