I'm sorry to hear that, I wish there was a way for me to make you feel better about it. I never mind losing 5-10 percent in a trade (IE trading a 10 dollar card for a 9 dollar card) but anything worse makes me super guilty at all. I live vicariously through my regrets.
My most terrible trade was when I confused Blood Moon for Ruination a few months ago, sold four of them for two dollars. I thought I was being fair (because Ruination is like a dollar at most), and generous because he urgently needed them for tournament in a few hours. I wanted to check the price right before but he didn't correct me, or tell me anything except that he was in a rush. So I went through with it and now I just feel conned. Lost about 20 dollars, now I check my smartphone every time. I never make trades that heavily favor one side either, I never con little kids and I always step in to make sure trades are fair because the feeling of getting ripped off SUCKS.
My worst 'loss' was while my grandparents was moving decorations over Christmas break, my magic rare-binder got lost in the boxes. I have a binder with $250ish worth of cards sitting in my attic back at my grandparents on the other side of the country, cards I will probably never find them until I go back there, which is over a year probably.
If he was going to push him tomorrow, and people think he is scummy, there is no reason to NK him. I am rereading right now and taking note of all interactions so hopefully we can get someone through interactions (like RL in #56).
I think towards end game when the two of you started talking to each other a bit more really, really helped.
It really didn't
FYI: I had a town jailer once use the ability to protect the claimed cop.
Reasoning was they wanted to protect the claimed cop.
I understand that reasoning. It's not wrong as you want to protect a town PR over and beyond them getting results.
I don't mean any disrespect to Jomafro, but was the player in your case a really experienced player? If Seppel was un-CCed cop this game I wouldn't have a problem with it, or if everyone REALLY needed Jomafro alive. But if you jail the cop to protect him, what's the difference between him and a VT?
Even if you plan on doing this to kill off the RB so he can cop again, I find that just as likely as not having a RB in the game.
Your play at the beginning wasn't great, but no one's was. It was your play at the end that gives you the MVP.
I never play good on D1 because I have nothing relevant to talk about, and I'm bad at reading tone with absolutely nothing else.
No, I'm glad of it! How can I hate you?
c: mon ami
Well take for example you and PF at the end: You had PF and RL or PF and me as the two likeliest scumteams, yet continually called PF town. That led me to think you might have been scum with PF even though I knew you weren't.
I really mean this when I say it, PF was the most behaviorally town that day, more than Kahedron, more than you, more than RL. I didn't continually call him town that day, I did it on previous days but then again everyone was so I didn't want to even bother trying. On D4 I obviously couldn't just ride on that info because it was mylo. PF was still the most behaviorally townie, but I was just struggling to see a WG-RL scumteam at that point. Like I said when you questioned me earlier in-game, I was more sure of RL being scum than I was of you and RL not being a scumteam (which would make PF the automatic scum). I understand it sounds weird, but I think it makes sense so if it's wrong please tell me
Actually now that I think about this more I think it's something in the way you post I don't like, and I don't know exactly what it is. I think I'll be better able to read you in future games though, so don't worry too hard.
Exactly my point! What about my posting don't you like! Again without reasons sigh even post game~
At least when I said PF gave me all the wrong feels on D2 I was right he was avoiding offending anyone whatsoever as scum. Even Kah, who he pushed for most of the game, he rarely said a bad word ABOUT kah, just about how he posted.
Some scum are bussy. Look at the scumteam from Basic 49.
It was how he targetted brinatoo, not just the busing.
Sometimes people who put in a lot of effort are still scum. Look at me in Kitteh Trek.
It was how you put effort in, not just effort.
As for the last sentence, I definitely think that in any game we're in together, we should talk to each other a ton, DX.
I think this will happen regardless
Also why did Seppel just start that wagon on a lurker, especially when he went onto replace that lurker in #55. Man that rubbed me in all the wrong ways...without a claim too!
Hi Len c: please take more stands so I can see what you actually believe.
mylo = mislynch and lose
lylo = lynch or lose
Every post Anak makes without claiming just makes me more willing to lynch him. There is no town reason for him not to claim. I still think Void is town despite his push on WWAB. If he was going to push him tomorrow, and people think he is scummy, there is no reason I am rereading right now and taking note of all interactions so hopefully we can get someone through interactions (like RL in #56).
Wagon analysis leads credence to parinoid/Drey being scum. I would think a lynch on them(/her?) is the safest route
Come on, please add something more than just that :-/. Language semantics don't indicate alignment but if you are recommending to just vote for whoever the 'safest' lynch you aren't being pro-town at all.
I just wanted to get 2 things out of the way before moving on.
1. My reaction to the lynch/nightkill.
2. My reacknowledgement of how bad I look. (3rd time I've mentioned it btw)
You felt it necessary to *give* your reaction to the nightkill? What am I reading?
How are you not suspicious of Pari's last post? Christ that looks so much like a scum response to another scum's post. You say something bad to him and then don't follow up whatsoever, answering his superficial question instead. It looks like you are just trying to avoid interaction with him. This messes up what my current scumteam was so much.
Okay. Okay so we came to this mylo (not lylo) ridiculously quickly but I think I have who at least two scum, and I might be able to break this game once DRey answers this for me:
QUOTE=DRey;8102068]WHY TOWN SHOULD NEVER LIE?
-Iso said he had one-shot and lost in the roleblock, because of that lie he got some heat and eventually confessed to be lying.
-Iso said he was a "Town Chatterbox" but he was instead a "2-shot Chaterbox" in retrospect this is a simple mistake, but attentive town pay attention to those inconsistencies and it adds, so pay attention when you claim something like that, checking your role PM goes a long way to prevent those.
-Iso said he didn't receive flavor, and backtracked to have received. Why?
-Iso said he had copping powers, and he was lying. I can say this with confidence because it's impossible for a small game to have a fullcop and a two-shot cop. That explains the reason he choose TIK as his target, not to cop him, but to be able to be mason with him (TIK was the strongest player we had).
-Iso never believe PB would resolve his powers instanly but he knew she would do it in Natural Order, so the reason he created was just a hoax created to fit both "I'm a cop" and "I choose to cop TIK and he was the towniest".
When one start lying (even with the best of intentions) it can get very hard to maintain his history on the long term, so you end up contradicting yourself and screwing up.
TLDR: This game is the perfect example on why lying as town is a bad strategy, please never do that.[/QUOTE]
What is the difference between lying about your role as town, and gambitting? Is there one? If so, how was Iso's actions a lie and not a gambit?
Also, this game is a perfect example of why you should never use a single isolated meta-reason to vote someone. Not about townies lying, but we can talk about that post game.
Oh and Void I'll answer as soon as DRey answers me c:
It's not just about Wheat being wrong Artifice, if you made a huge deal out of Wheat having to be dragged to Brinatoo's lynch, then talked about how Wheat was playing off my OOG feelings (from #55), and pushed WG to explain why he voted RL (little-to-no reasons), then I could have definitely been convinced. I am easily convinced of things
EDIT: I do wholly agree with Wheat on Mephit. His PBPAs are flawed, some fluff in it but when he brought up how you tip-toed around Brinatoo falseclaiming I couldn't really argue against that. It simply makes NO sense as a jailer to jail the cop. As soon as you read Brinatoo saying that you should been on auto-lynch mode. There is no reason, in my opinion, to believe that a town jailer would want to jail the cop.
I'm not town mvp at all, I was part of the people that outed both power-roles. I was so wrong this game about so many things, I let myself get forced into a Mephit lynch as well. This game definitely was bunch of people acting sort of townie, and getting lucky. It's not like one of those games where one townie nails all the scum.
Wheat the following I mean in the absolute nicest way, for improvement purposes, and I'd appreciate if I could learn why you thought I was scum as town too
Even this game, after Basic 55 I knew he had to be town, but I kept getting these little naggy feelings that he was scum with PF. I knew it probably wasn't the case, but I couldn't help feeling that it was somehow.
How are my interactions scummy? I tried so hard to interact with everyone this game and understand everyone's mindset. How is that scummy?
You saying you get 'naggy feelings' and not actually explaining why you get them is a perfect example for the below...
Why I think Wheat is usually scum:
1. Sometimes he says things that directly contradict an earlier statement, then just pretends it didn't happen (re: #55 opinion on me in D3)
2. Sometimes hops wagons, even if he showed no inclination to them earlier, or was targeting the wagonee's attacker just before (re: a lot of D1 in #55)
3. Sometimes claims things and doesn't provide reasoning, even when prodded. Gut feelings, especially late-game, do not mean much to me. There is a wealth of information in the thread so when one says something without reasoning late-game, it just is anti-town. (re: #56 Brinatoo being town, opinion on me just quoted above)
Even with his Kahedron/Vig thing (which was so pro-town reasoning) the rest of the things he did this game were really textbook scum game to me. PF on the other hand, seemed completely legitimate with his bus on Brinatoo. He started pushing Brinatoo out of nowhere, after Brinatoo was already rung up and not lynched once. I could simply not see any scum motive in attacking Brinatoo when his wagon momentum fizzled. Scum would breathe a sigh of relief, and move onto whoever. The truth ended up being that he was just planning REALLY long term
I really should have just accepted Wheat's massive PBPA's as proof he is town, but his whole playstyle otherwise just seems to scream scum (or at least anti-town) to me.
Your cardpool is quite strong, if I was in your situation I'd probably cut Frost Titan, Inferno Titan, Karn, and maybe Armageddon if you aren't using it much. Also cut Sword Of Body and Mind, because you have plenty of equipment and the other swords give you a protection from green/blue. I like the idea of a Ruhan Voltron deck though!
If there WAS a vig (I don't think so) that would confirm me as town
EWP: Oh and what Kah said as well. If you have Kah as your scummiest going into N2, there is no reason not to vig him. Even if you said Kah was going to be copped, you still said plenty of things to suggest that LN is a bad vig target and that Kah's ideas were bad.
Also if you were anything more than a 1-shot, considering I didn't know a godfather exists, the PRs would have been tilted incredibly unfairly towards town.
Finally, if we had:
Kahedron
XX
WG
PF
With PF claiming shots, I would have said to NL, shoot WG and see what happens. You wouldn't have made it out after that. It would have been Me, You, and Kah, with you claiming that both you and scum shot the same person, and confirmed town Kahedron isn't confirmed town. You would have had to lynch me, and that would have fun, and in my opinion highly unlikely
I'm still pissed that I had Brinatoo and PF as my top two scumreads on D2 and then was swayed when WG said they were both town. God that was terrible on my part.
BTW I think Artifice could have made a convincing case on Wheat if he wanted to, before his slip up at the end I was still considering WG. Thinking about his lack of reasons for RL lynch, blatant lying about Brinatoo, etc. I find myself agree with Void 100%.
You really played fantastically, PF. Busing Brinatoo threw me off your trail SO MUCH. Also WG telling me that you were very town on D2 influenced a lot. I actually had 2/3 scum team at one point, then got thrown off :-/. I think your interactions were pretty even between WG and RL up to D4 as well, great job balancing it out. But of course you were going to be a suspect when we had 3 suspects and 2 scum left
RL did great as well, I really only went after him because PF put him as his second scumspect. Which is very flawed reasoning, but I got lucky this time. Flat out refusing to talk to me really pinged scumdar.
Brinatoo played awesome too! It was just how he got on ITU wagon that stuck out to me. Also PF bussed him to hell, not sure if he would have been the lynch that day without it.
HIGH FIVE UPRISING JOMAFRO KAHEDRON MEPHIT WG LN
SHAME ON SEPPEL ITU
Raging I'm sorry I was being a dick, I shouldn't have been so mean. I'm really glad you didn't take it seriously and being condescending is something I really need to work on. Same to you WG, I know I definitely pissed you off this game
It was obvious when Artifice doesn't know any scum games WG was in
Correction: I buddy up to you when I'm scum, basically, and I'm a bit colder when I'm town.
In this game though, you have it backwards.
I'm being a bit slow, what do I have backwards?
I'm not seeing that at all here. You vote who you like. I've neither complimented you, nor insulted you as either will be misenterpreted (ain't WIFOM grand?).
I meant compliment as being nice, and insulting as being angry.
Wheat, on the other hand, plays the "I'm confused" card as scum. That's what I'm seeing here.
How do you know he does this? What scum games has he played where he acts confused?
He's also far to easily ready to throw me under the bus just to save his own skin without following through on a "case" because he knows it would provoke me to action.
How is he 'throwing you under the bus'? He's posted plenty against you/PF at this point.
So why aren't you acting? I know rereading sucks, especially in a long game, but you said you would reread. This is exactly what would have happened with a replacement replacing in so late this game and it sucks.
Unvote
You just called me town, and Kahedron confirmed town. Why would you ever unvote Wheat? What am I reading?
My most terrible trade was when I confused Blood Moon for Ruination a few months ago, sold four of them for two dollars. I thought I was being fair (because Ruination is like a dollar at most), and generous because he urgently needed them for tournament in a few hours. I wanted to check the price right before but he didn't correct me, or tell me anything except that he was in a rush. So I went through with it and now I just feel conned. Lost about 20 dollars, now I check my smartphone every time. I never make trades that heavily favor one side either, I never con little kids and I always step in to make sure trades are fair because the feeling of getting ripped off SUCKS.
My worst 'loss' was while my grandparents was moving decorations over Christmas break, my magic rare-binder got lost in the boxes. I have a binder with $250ish worth of cards sitting in my attic back at my grandparents on the other side of the country, cards I will probably never find them until I go back there, which is over a year probably.
fixed
It really didn't
I don't mean any disrespect to Jomafro, but was the player in your case a really experienced player? If Seppel was un-CCed cop this game I wouldn't have a problem with it, or if everyone REALLY needed Jomafro alive. But if you jail the cop to protect him, what's the difference between him and a VT?
Even if you plan on doing this to kill off the RB so he can cop again, I find that just as likely as not having a RB in the game.
I never play good on D1 because I have nothing relevant to talk about, and I'm bad at reading tone with absolutely nothing else.
c: mon ami
I really mean this when I say it, PF was the most behaviorally town that day, more than Kahedron, more than you, more than RL. I didn't continually call him town that day, I did it on previous days but then again everyone was so I didn't want to even bother trying. On D4 I obviously couldn't just ride on that info because it was mylo. PF was still the most behaviorally townie, but I was just struggling to see a WG-RL scumteam at that point. Like I said when you questioned me earlier in-game, I was more sure of RL being scum than I was of you and RL not being a scumteam (which would make PF the automatic scum). I understand it sounds weird, but I think it makes sense so if it's wrong please tell me
At least when I said PF gave me all the wrong feels on D2 I was right
It was how he targetted brinatoo, not just the busing.
It was how you put effort in, not just effort.
I think this will happen regardless
Also why did Seppel just start that wagon on a lurker, especially when he went onto replace that lurker in #55. Man that rubbed me in all the wrong ways...without a claim too!
mylo = mislynch and lose
lylo = lynch or lose
Every post Anak makes without claiming just makes me more willing to lynch him. There is no town reason for him not to claim. I still think Void is town despite his push on WWAB. If he was going to push him tomorrow, and people think he is scummy, there is no reason I am rereading right now and taking note of all interactions so hopefully we can get someone through interactions (like RL in #56).
Come on, please add something more than just that :-/. Language semantics don't indicate alignment but if you are recommending to just vote for whoever the 'safest' lynch you aren't being pro-town at all.
EWP:
You felt it necessary to *give* your reaction to the nightkill? What am I reading?
How are you not suspicious of Pari's last post? Christ that looks so much like a scum response to another scum's post. You say something bad to him and then don't follow up whatsoever, answering his superficial question instead. It looks like you are just trying to avoid interaction with him. This messes up what my current scumteam was so much.
QUOTE=DRey;8102068]WHY TOWN SHOULD NEVER LIE?
-Iso said he had one-shot and lost in the roleblock, because of that lie he got some heat and eventually confessed to be lying.
-Iso said he was a "Town Chatterbox" but he was instead a "2-shot Chaterbox" in retrospect this is a simple mistake, but attentive town pay attention to those inconsistencies and it adds, so pay attention when you claim something like that, checking your role PM goes a long way to prevent those.
-Iso said he didn't receive flavor, and backtracked to have received. Why?
-Iso said he had copping powers, and he was lying. I can say this with confidence because it's impossible for a small game to have a fullcop and a two-shot cop. That explains the reason he choose TIK as his target, not to cop him, but to be able to be mason with him (TIK was the strongest player we had).
-Iso never believe PB would resolve his powers instanly but he knew she would do it in Natural Order, so the reason he created was just a hoax created to fit both "I'm a cop" and "I choose to cop TIK and he was the towniest".
When one start lying (even with the best of intentions) it can get very hard to maintain his history on the long term, so you end up contradicting yourself and screwing up.
TLDR: This game is the perfect example on why lying as town is a bad strategy, please never do that.[/QUOTE]
What is the difference between lying about your role as town, and gambitting? Is there one? If so, how was Iso's actions a lie and not a gambit?
Also, this game is a perfect example of why you should never use a single isolated meta-reason to vote someone. Not about townies lying, but we can talk about that post game.
Oh and Void I'll answer as soon as DRey answers me c:
EDIT: I do wholly agree with Wheat on Mephit. His PBPAs are flawed, some fluff in it but when he brought up how you tip-toed around Brinatoo falseclaiming I couldn't really argue against that. It simply makes NO sense as a jailer to jail the cop. As soon as you read Brinatoo saying that you should been on auto-lynch mode. There is no reason, in my opinion, to believe that a town jailer would want to jail the cop.
Wheat the following I mean in the absolute nicest way, for improvement purposes, and I'd appreciate if I could learn why you thought I was scum as town too
How are my interactions scummy? I tried so hard to interact with everyone this game and understand everyone's mindset. How is that scummy?
You saying you get 'naggy feelings' and not actually explaining why you get them is a perfect example for the below...
Why I think Wheat is usually scum:
1. Sometimes he says things that directly contradict an earlier statement, then just pretends it didn't happen (re: #55 opinion on me in D3)
2. Sometimes hops wagons, even if he showed no inclination to them earlier, or was targeting the wagonee's attacker just before (re: a lot of D1 in #55)
3. Sometimes claims things and doesn't provide reasoning, even when prodded. Gut feelings, especially late-game, do not mean much to me. There is a wealth of information in the thread so when one says something without reasoning late-game, it just is anti-town. (re: #56 Brinatoo being town, opinion on me just quoted above)
Even with his Kahedron/Vig thing (which was so pro-town reasoning) the rest of the things he did this game were really textbook scum game to me. PF on the other hand, seemed completely legitimate with his bus on Brinatoo. He started pushing Brinatoo out of nowhere, after Brinatoo was already rung up and not lynched once. I could simply not see any scum motive in attacking Brinatoo when his wagon momentum fizzled. Scum would breathe a sigh of relief, and move onto whoever. The truth ended up being that he was just planning REALLY long term
I really should have just accepted Wheat's massive PBPA's as proof he is town, but his whole playstyle otherwise just seems to scream scum (or at least anti-town) to me.
Your cardpool is quite strong, if I was in your situation I'd probably cut Frost Titan, Inferno Titan, Karn, and maybe Armageddon if you aren't using it much. Also cut Sword Of Body and Mind, because you have plenty of equipment and the other swords give you a protection from green/blue. I like the idea of a Ruhan Voltron deck though!
If you claimed it:
EWP: Oh and what Kah said as well. If you have Kah as your scummiest going into N2, there is no reason not to vig him. Even if you said Kah was going to be copped, you still said plenty of things to suggest that LN is a bad vig target and that Kah's ideas were bad.
Also if you were anything more than a 1-shot, considering I didn't know a godfather exists, the PRs would have been tilted incredibly unfairly towards town.
Finally, if we had:
Kahedron
XX
WG
PF
With PF claiming shots, I would have said to NL, shoot WG and see what happens. You wouldn't have made it out after that.
I'm still pissed that I had Brinatoo and PF as my top two scumreads on D2 and then was swayed when WG said they were both town. God that was terrible on my part.
BTW I think Artifice could have made a convincing case on Wheat if he wanted to, before his slip up at the end I was still considering WG. Thinking about his lack of reasons for RL lynch, blatant lying about Brinatoo, etc. I find myself agree with Void 100%.
You really played fantastically, PF. Busing Brinatoo threw me off your trail SO MUCH. Also WG telling me that you were very town on D2 influenced a lot. I actually had 2/3 scum team at one point, then got thrown off :-/. I think your interactions were pretty even between WG and RL up to D4 as well, great job balancing it out. But of course you were going to be a suspect when we had 3 suspects and 2 scum left
RL did great as well, I really only went after him because PF put him as his second scumspect. Which is very flawed reasoning, but I got lucky this time. Flat out refusing to talk to me really pinged scumdar.
Brinatoo played awesome too! It was just how he got on ITU wagon that stuck out to me. Also PF bussed him to hell, not sure if he would have been the lynch that day without it.
<3 YOU ANYWAYS
HIGH FIVE UPRISING JOMAFRO KAHEDRON MEPHIT WG LN
SHAME ON SEPPEL ITU
Raging I'm sorry I was being a dick, I shouldn't have been so mean. I'm really glad you didn't take it seriously and being condescending is something I really need to work on. Same to you WG, I know I definitely pissed you off this game
It was obvious when Artifice doesn't know any scum games WG was in
I'm being a bit slow, what do I have backwards?
I meant compliment as being nice, and insulting as being angry.
How do you know he does this? What scum games has he played where he acts confused?
How is he 'throwing you under the bus'? He's posted plenty against you/PF at this point.
So why aren't you acting? I know rereading sucks, especially in a long game, but you said you would reread. This is exactly what would have happened with a replacement replacing in so late this game and it sucks.
You just called me town, and Kahedron confirmed town. Why would you ever unvote Wheat? What am I reading?
insults me when he's town